Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Glasshouses and stones, stones and glasshouses, glasshouses and stones. Literally everyone in this utterly reprehensible corner of the wider NationStates community has done nothing but throw stones through each others glasshouses for the last 3 to 5 years. Do we even have an actual geopolitical landscape anymore? Do the latest generations of players just think that throwing stones is how the game works? If someone rolls a big enough boulder through TBH tomorrow, does R/D as we know it even continue to exist? At this point, nothing about our stone throwing culture changes until moderation forces that change.

You came into this thread, stone in hand, with Cormac's name written on it, and threw it as hard as you could. You're not the person to be complaining about a "stone throwing culture". And where do you get off calling the GP community "utterly reprehensible", exactly? What have you done that's so angelic, Avakael? Fuck, your whole shtick is bragging about the stones you've thrown and how badass it was when you threw them. Now you're the woke one? Not buying it.

That would be exactly the reaction I had about Cormac (and Osiris) when I had the misfortune to click on this thread about 12 hours ago. Amazing how that works, isn't it?

EDIT: I do understand your reaction, of course- I've been a colossal cunt to you. But at this point, I have no close friends left playing, and nothing left to lose. So I'm literally only on this forum to point out when I think someone is being a hypocrite, and because we've all been here for such a very long time, that happens an awful lot.

[RiderSyl]

You came into this thread, stone in hand, with Cormac's name written on it, and threw it as hard as you could. You're not the person to be complaining about a "stone throwing culture". And where do you get off calling the GP community "utterly reprehensible", exactly? What have you done that's so angelic, Avakael? Fuck, your whole shtick is bragging about the stones you've thrown and how badass it was when you threw them. Now you're the woke one? Not buying it.

That would be exactly the reaction I had about Cormac (and Osiris) when I had the misfortune to click on this thread about 12 hours ago. Amazing how that works, isn't it?

EDIT: I do understand your reaction, of course- I've been a colossal cunt to you. But at this point, I have no close friends left playing, and nothing left to lose. So I'm literally only on this forum to point out when I think someone is being a hypocrite, and because we've all been here for such a very long time, that happens an awful lot.

Fair enough.

[Reventus Koth]

Fair enough.

I mean, not really. Nothing is really fair about this situation in the slightest. Avakael is full of it, and should be ignored as the shit stirrer he's quite obviously being. Anyone who wants logs of why Biyah is unwelcome in Osiris is free to DM me for them.

[Glen-Rhodes]

So few details here. Were the things said about him worse than the numerous times he’s vociferously attacked me personally as a horrible and irredeemable human being, a toxic person in real life who should be ostracized from the game, etc? Statements he’s never apologized for and nobody in GP ever stood up and said a word about?

Syb, I saw your parenthetical and my DMs will be open to you. But unless I hear that some truly awful rumors were spread or something, I’m skeptical of this statement. Cormac has said a lot of really nasty stuff about me (and probably others), and never suffered any public admonishing like what’s being delivered to TNP now. I’m going to ask for their side, of course, but threads like these always leave far too much to the imagination.

[Cormactopia Prime]

So few details here. Were the things said about him worse than the numerous times he’s vociferously attacked me personally as a horrible and irredeemable human being, a toxic person in real life who should be ostracized from the game, etc? Statements he’s never apologized for and nobody in GP ever stood up and said a word about?

For what it's worth, I'm genuinely sorry for the times I've crossed the line and engaged in baiting, etc. toward you. Especially if it made you feel I was saying you were a horrible and irredeemable human being, because I don't think that. So if I ever made you feel like that I really am sorry. I know I've made a lot of mistakes over the years and I regret them.

[RiderSyl]

Statements he’s never apologized for and nobody in GP ever stood up and said a word about?

Either you don't consider Roavin part of GP or you're not giving him credit for standing up for you.

Also good fucking job getting Cormac to apologize for his behavior after the announcement about what happened in TNP. Once y'all get the details of what happened in TNP, I hope you feel at least somewhat ashamed for turning this thread around on him just to satisfy your grudges.

[Ghostfox]

I think it's particularly important to note that I'm responsible for this statement. Cormac had nothing to do with it. He didn't even want it, but I did. I haven't been here for years or decades and I don't even know the basics of some of these past situations being brought up right now. So no, I'm not throwing stones in glass houses. I haven't even built a foundation to do so.

But how exactly does "Hey we should stop going so hard on each other OOC" turn into "Oh well I need reparations for everything that Cormac said to me before we can talk playing nicer"? How about we just start playing nicer? Everyone.

There's a difference between going hard at someone because of IC and being nasty to someone OOC. All I'm saying is that the events that happened made me feel like something needs to be addressed (not just with TNP, but with NS). And it does, without the process of dredging up the past so people can feel justified about the grudges they've been nursing all these years.

[Escade]

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

That is why it will have to be newer players who aren't mired in a history of bad behavior to engage in leading us on new standards. Thanks to Lynxi for bringing up the standards and hopefully we see more dialogue around this that doesn't devolve.

[Cataluna]

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

That is why it will have to be newer players who aren't mired in a history of bad behavior to engage in leading us on new standards. Thanks to Lynxi for bringing up the standards and hopefully we see more dialogue around this that doesn't devolve.

I hope new players don't get involved in GP, lol. I certainly know what I committed to when I chose to lead a region whose whole schtick is being anti-NPO, but I'd contrast that decision with the people who aren't there to do that. The people in Pacifica are kind-hearted, passionate about making positive change, and cooperative. I would never want any of my friends in Pacifica involved in this cesspool. If I could make one lasting contribution to Pacifica and/or Carolingia, it's that I'd never want either of them involved here, ever, beyond necessity. This is a place that sucks your soul dry, encourages people to scar rather than heal, and is unfulfilling. Nobody should wish NSGP on new players, nor ask them to show us the way.

[Kurnugia]

Honestly? To come forth with grudges might be a tad childish nonetheless unavoidable to at least somewhat pacify one source of this OOC toxicity.

[Anabelle I]

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

That is why it will have to be newer players who aren't mired in a history of bad behavior to engage in leading us on new standards. Thanks to Lynxi for bringing up the standards and hopefully we see more dialogue around this that doesn't devolve.

I hope new players don't get involved in GP, lol. I certainly know what I committed to when I chose to lead a region whose whole schtick is being anti-NPO, but I'd contrast that decision with the people who aren't there to do that. The people in Pacifica are kind-hearted, passionate about making positive change, and cooperative. I would never want any of my friends in Pacifica involved in this cesspool. If I could make one lasting contribution to Pacifica and/or Carolingia, it's that I'd never want either of them involved here, ever, beyond necessity. This is a place that sucks your soul dry, encourages people to scar rather than heal, and is unfulfilling. Nobody should wish NSGP on new players, nor ask them to show us the way.

I think that is the point we're trying to make. NSGP doesn't have to be soul-sucking. It doesn't have to be a cesspool. It doesn't have to be someplace that you don't wish new players OOCly. We can, and should want to do better. Like Lynxi, I also don't have a long history with NSGP. What I do have is a desire to see all of us, as players, never forget our own humanity and the humanity of other players.

[Valentine Z]

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

That is why it will have to be newer players who aren't mired in a history of bad behavior to engage in leading us on new standards. Thanks to Lynxi for bringing up the standards and hopefully we see more dialogue around this that doesn't devolve.

I hope new players don't get involved in GP, lol. I certainly know what I committed to when I chose to lead a region whose whole schtick is being anti-NPO, but I'd contrast that decision with the people who aren't there to do that. The people in Pacifica are kind-hearted, passionate about making positive change, and cooperative. I would never want any of my friends in Pacifica involved in this cesspool. If I could make one lasting contribution to Pacifica and/or Carolingia, it's that I'd never want either of them involved here, ever, beyond necessity. This is a place that sucks your soul dry, encourages people to scar rather than heal, and is unfulfilling. Nobody should wish NSGP on new players, nor ask them to show us the way.

To be honest, I'm relatively the new-face here when it comes to NSGP, so... I know squat about most of the happenings between regions or people. I spent most of my time somewhere else, so... I suppose you can take my view as that of a newbie? Anyway...

All I know and mind so far is that if there is a problem, we will have to consider who got involved, what exactly happened, and on how we will mitigate it. I just think that we should temporarily let go of whatever else that has happened in the past - I didn't mean straight-up ignore history as a whole, but if we are going to talk about an issue plaguing us right now, we should all focus on this instead right here and right now, because very rarely does bringing up the past tensions go well.

As in, forget about past rivalries or whatever else that has happened in the past for the moment, and instead, try to talk about what we will do to mitigate it.

[Jar Wattinree]

As in, forget about past rivalries or whatever else that has happened in the past for the moment, and instead, try to talk about what we will do to mitigate it.

There has been some effort in this department stretching back to Christmas of 2018, even some action correlating with this talk.

[Cataluna]

It'll be a cold day in Hell when we make progress in this regard. Until the Stalker notifies me that it's snowing, I won't be holding my breath.

[Altinsane]

Whoa, you guys. Take it calmly.

Glen - Yes. All logs are in TNP's public channel, you're free to read up. Searching posts from Altino should get you there. Or I've got like, 36 screenshots because I'm on mobile if you'd like for me to assault you with images instead.

To the rest of you, I understand the general frustration here, but I don't think that the spirit of Osiris' statement here is throwing stones or accusatory. I don't even feel like they're looking for judgement or punishment for the way that I or Cormac were treated. They're just seeking a change. You're right to say that everyone in this game has done things like this, and they were all wrong for doing it. But you're wrong, too, to think that any of us deserve to be treated badly or have earned false OOC allegations by any measure. People get in heated moments. I understand that. One of the people in that discussion with TNP called me an ableist and a horrible person. I'm neither of those things, but I'm not angry with him for saying so. In a moment, he reacted badly. We all do. I think the point trying to be made here is that we shouldn't. Not calling for the heads of one another, but recognizing the ways that we are all guilty, that this is a problem in TNP because an atmosphere that they've created, but a problem for the rest of us too because of the atmosphere that Gameplay has been okay with for years.

Well, I'm not okay with it. That's not the person I am, not the person I imagine any of us want to be, and regardless of how guilty many of us may be of these same things, we don't have to be guilty of them in the future. Let us change. Don't hold us to permanent toxicity because you've seen it happen before. Some time from now, someone is going to throw out an inappropriate comment in a heated moment. When that happens, what I would like to see from us is an immediate pause in the conversation to address that it isn't okay to talk like that, then we can continue with what we were talking about when we've addressed it. We don't have to crucify everyone who has ever said something about you that you didn't want to hear. And we don't have to weaponize the idea that we should be kind against legitimate IC disputes. All we have to do is recognize that there's a problem and resolve to do better in the future.

I don't know why you guys decided to take a very honest and genuine statement and turn it into an attacking grounds for each other. But that too is part of the problem. Stop trying to get rid of each other. Just be kind. It isn't that hard, y'all.

[Syberis]

I think this is a sign of how much things need to change. I think everyone involved with the thread on Osiris' end has recognized how shitty Osiris has been in the past, but also has taken steps towards fixing the issue in their own mind and in Osiris itself. If the idea that we all treat each other a bit less like shit is met with such hostility, I think that's a sign, more than anything, that we in this game really need to treat each other a bit less like shit.

For my own example, I took time away from the game for the sake of getting myself some damn context. We might all disagree with each other, but we're all nerds playing the same damn game with each other. We shouldn't be so absolutely terrible to each other based on our own political disagreements. I stepped away to fix my own headspace and try to improve as a person, and I've been pushing Osiris to do the same where I can. I think every region focuses too much on preventing it from happening INTERNALLY, and doesn't focus on preventing this behavior from cropping up towards outsiders behind closed doors.

[Drop Your Pants]

If the idea that we all treat each other a bit less like shit is met with such hostility, I think that's a sign, more than anything, that we in this game really need to treat each other a bit less like shit.

Think you're reading too far into a preceived hostility, from myself anyway. I thought it was amusing more than anything else given the history.

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

Explaining the problem and then calling other players responses repulsive and hypocritical makes you a big part of the problem yourself.

[Escade]

We see the cycle here. Someone is trying to speak out about a bad situation. They are trying to illustrate that there is a problem in the community about standards of behavior. Some other players rush to victim shame, to bring up grudges, etc. That was repulsive and hypocritical.

Explaining the problem and then calling other players responses repulsive and hypocritical makes you a big part of the problem yourself.

I think you missed the point.

Calling out repulsive and hypocritical behavior as such is not the problem. The how and why and to what end is debatable but I don't foresee you adding much to this conversation unless you can earn points and that indeed is one of the problems. Since this is the Osiris thread and also an attempt to encourage a different type of GP I didn't want to engage in pointing out the specificity that make the response by one player both repulsive and hypocritical. I already stated it on Discord which is I think the appropriate venue for that comment.

Stop it. Cut the BS.

I hope new players don't get involved in GP, lol. I certainly know what I committed to when I chose to lead a region whose whole schtick is being anti-NPO, but I'd contrast that decision with the people who aren't there to do that. The people in Pacifica are kind-hearted, passionate about making positive change, and cooperative. I would never want any of my friends in Pacifica involved in this cesspool. If I could make one lasting contribution to Pacifica and/or Carolingia, it's that I'd never want either of them involved here, ever, beyond necessity. This is a place that sucks your soul dry, encourages people to scar rather than heal, and is unfulfilling. Nobody should wish NSGP on new players, nor ask them to show us the way.

I think that is the point we're trying to make. NSGP doesn't have to be soul-sucking. It doesn't have to be a cesspool. It doesn't have to be someplace that you don't wish new players OOCly. We can, and should want to do better. Like Lynxi, I also don't have a long history with NSGP. What I do have is a desire to see all of us, as players, never forget our own humanity and the humanity of other players.

I think the not having a long history on NSGP does help because for the majority of us with some history it is easy (see above) to be tempted into devolving into the past. It's actually quite hard not to bring up whatever transgressions were felt at some point.

I hope new players don't get involved in GP, lol. I certainly know what I committed to when I chose to lead a region whose whole schtick is being anti-NPO, but I'd contrast that decision with the people who aren't there to do that. The people in Pacifica are kind-hearted, passionate about making positive change, and cooperative. I would never want any of my friends in Pacifica involved in this cesspool. If I could make one lasting contribution to Pacifica and/or Carolingia, it's that I'd never want either of them involved here, ever, beyond necessity. This is a place that sucks your soul dry, encourages people to scar rather than heal, and is unfulfilling. Nobody should wish NSGP on new players, nor ask them to show us the way.

To be honest, I'm relatively the new-face here when it comes to NSGP, so... I know squat about most of the happenings between regions or people. I spent most of my time somewhere else, so... I suppose you can take my view as that of a newbie? Anyway...

All I know and mind so far is that if there is a problem, we will have to consider who got involved, what exactly happened, and on how we will mitigate it. I just think that we should temporarily let go of whatever else that has happened in the past - I didn't mean straight-up ignore history as a whole, but if we are going to talk about an issue plaguing us right now, we should all focus on this instead right here and right now, because very rarely does bringing up the past tensions go well.

As in, forget about past rivalries or whatever else that has happened in the past for the moment, and instead, try to talk about what we will do to mitigate it.

I think that was the key point I was trying to make, that the newer players can start building together a blueprint for what they would like the atmosphere to be like. It does not have to be hostile. As I said to someone earlier today, my first foray into NS and attempt to ask for civility resulted in statements like, "If you can't take the heat, get out the kitchen." We were shaped by some of the forces around us and I think it's really up to the newer players to set standards because they 1. Don't have that history and drama and 2. Won't be seen as polarizing forces and 3. Are the current and future leaders of the game and should take that ownership


P.S. What Altino said about is beautiful on how to deal with players as well.

[Glen-Rhodes]

So few details here. Were the things said about him worse than the numerous times he’s vociferously attacked me personally as a horrible and irredeemable human being, a toxic person in real life who should be ostracized from the game, etc? Statements he’s never apologized for and nobody in GP ever stood up and said a word about?

For what it's worth, I'm genuinely sorry for the times I've crossed the line and engaged in baiting, etc. toward you. Especially if it made you feel I was saying you were a horrible and irredeemable human being, because I don't think that. So if I ever made you feel like that I really am sorry. I know I've made a lot of mistakes over the years and I regret them.

For the record, when you left TSP, you said I was abusive, that I was a toxic and paranoid person, and that I was cruel to people for amusement. Some of those things you couched in terms of "you all" language, despite the context being clear you were talking directly about me. You ended by saying that things would never get better unless I was removed from the game. That was in July 2017, and in the intervening year and a half you've repeated those characterizations across several platforms, usually tied in with how I'm corrupt. My crimes against you back in 2017 were that you disagreed with my judgement on a security matter, and I disagreed with your response to it.

So I do have a hard time accepting this kind of apology and believing that it's sincere. Because this isn't the first time I've heard it. It's a familiar cycle to me. I'm reluctant to even address it, because I think there's a very good chance I'm going to be the bad guy for not returning in kind and publicly forgiving you and saying all is fine now. My post wasn't made to solicit any kind of apology or sympathy, but rather to highlight what I think is a certain level of hypocrisy and double standards.

This whole incident started because somebody made a Buzzfeed quiz that, according to the way it was described to me, was composed of a bunch of direct quotes. As far as I know, nothing about that quiz accused you of any serious misconduct. (That came after Altino arrived to demand the quiz be taken down.) It was all quotes of things you've said, that highlighted why you shouldn't be allowed to join TNP. But it became an inter-regional incident because Altino found it "alarmingly mean-spirited" and called it bullying. I saw this thread and that statement and thought to myself, "Why is someone making Cormac the poster child of being bullied?" And that's not particularly because I'm hung up on specifically on the things you've said about me. Or you in particular. For past two years or so, I haven't been able to search my name once a week in the GP Discord -- a server I've rarely participated in -- without seeing someone talking about me, 9 out 10 times disparagingly. There have even been bots created about me that were programmed to make fun of me whenever someone said my name.

Like, Altino said this on TNP's Discord: "I think that anyone would be "dismayed" at finding that an entire region is kicking back to make fun of them and then defending that action with the idea that he deserves it." That is exactly what many people (popular in GP circles!) in this game have done to me for years. And to Syl's point, about the only person who's ever actually stood up and said something about it is Roavin, who is usually told he's just part of the "Cult of Glen." I don't make a habit of making inter-regional incidents about any of this stuff. But to be honest, it really irked me to see this long statement about how much TNP has mistreated poor old Cormac, and how we all need to do better. The GP circle in this game has always considered it okay to bully, make fun of, insult, etc. certain people, but then draws the line for others. So I read this statement and these posts, and I kind of roll my eyes because it's hard to believe that anything has changed or that anybody popular and influential in GP (particularly the GP Discord) has any intent on applying the ideal universally. And I think there's a certain amount of weaponizing civility to that, if people aren't allowed to call out those who have been mean and nasty and unpleasant. Or that those who have been the targets are expected to accept whatever apologies are given and to be cordial and polite, lest they be the ones who are the problem.

[Drop Your Pants]

Calling out repulsive and hypocritical behavior as such is not the problem. The how and why and to what end is debatable but I don't foresee you adding much to this conversation unless you can earn points and that indeed is one of the problems.

I take quite a lot of offence (well, as much as I care about NS anyway which isn't much ) at my opinion being called repulsive so I do think your attitude towards other players is a problem. I'll take the hypocritical, I've been that a few times. Trying to ignore someones future posts with a weak attempt such as 'point scoring' is just sad.

Since this is the Osiris thread and also an attempt to encourage a different type of GP I didn't want to engage in pointing out the specificity that make the response by one player both repulsive and hypocritical. I already stated it on Discord which is I think the appropriate venue for that comment.

An attempt to encourage another type of GP, where only some people are allowed insult others? I know i'm going to get jumped on for that one

Stop it. Cut the BS.

Should be the slogan for GP.

Edit: If others opinions are getting you down then use the Foe feature. I've been using it a bit recently and GP is a very relaxed place now

[Lord Dominator]

Interesting & good points Glen.

I remembered a very different post from the one I thought I was referring to >_>

[Escade]

Spoilered because I fell for the trap which sucks.

(well, as much as I care about NS anyway which isn't much ) at my opinion being called repulsive so I do think your attitude towards other players is a problem.

It's always amusing when players say they don't care about NS but keep posting to attack. It speaks volumes.

I'm not sure why you thought any of this was about you? It seems like you have a personal axe to grind here when I was not speaking to you or about you. I do find it pathetic that you've managed to ignore the actual points players are trying to make about change to instead try to attack me and instigate me into an argument.

That behavior is repulsive because it is what disingenuous players do hoping to score points. It's a long tradition of NSGP and the attempt to detract from the actual conversation to take pot shots is just ugh. If you had a genuine point you would have approached me privately rather than try to take away from anyone speaking positively about the discussion here with a "no u" argument.

However, since you've basically shown how NS generally plays out - I would prefer not to engage in any dialogue with you in any venue.

Anyway, I don't give two fucks about Cormac's past history or what he's done to anyone or not. The post made in this thread was not a trial by combat for Cormac or a forum to air personal grievances or an opportunity for players to politicize genuine discussion. It's possible that players need some sort of space to discuss history or achieve catharsis from being on both sides of the state of NSGP for the past several years. That venue is not this forum or thread. Possibly though some of the cooler heads could create some sort of dialogue.

I appreciated that there was a genuine discussion about a Discord situation that arose that several players do not want to see play out for any player. from now on. Just because it happened in the past (how Onder was treated for a very long time comes to mind) doesn't mean it should happen now. NO ONE asked for heads to roll or bans to take place which would have been the attempt to politicize the situation. This pretty much reiterates what I've been saying on this forum, other forums, and Discord for several years now.

I also want to say that while I have IC not gotten along with some people from Osiris like Syberis, I do appreciate that acknowledgement that the majority of us (and our regions) have been part of the problem. I'm a hot-head myself and can lack tact. The way to change, since that part has been recognized, is not going to be to engage the players who make it all about themselves or their personal grievances. It will be to let the better players, who have not been corrupted or abused the system, to take the lead.

I've already made it clear that talking about this topic is polarizing simply because of who is involved. I've also made it clear that I think players who are not part of some perceived polarized camp, i.e. some of the newer players, should be the ones to lead discussion and change on this topic. I'd be glad to offer support to those players because that's what the players who want to see change but are very used to the unfortunate way of doing things should do.

To the rest of you, I understand the general frustration here, but I don't think that the spirit of Osiris' statement here is throwing stones or accusatory. I don't even feel like they're looking for judgement or punishment for the way that I or Cormac were treated. They're just seeking a change. You're right to say that everyone in this game has done things like this, and they were all wrong for doing it. But you're wrong, too, to think that any of us deserve to be treated badly or have earned false OOC allegations by any measure. People get in heated moments. I understand that. One of the people in that discussion with TNP called me an ableist and a horrible person. I'm neither of those things, but I'm not angry with him for saying so. In a moment, he reacted badly. We all do. I think the point trying to be made here is that we shouldn't. Not calling for the heads of one another, but recognizing the ways that we are all guilty, that this is a problem in TNP because an atmosphere that they've created, but a problem for the rest of us too because of the atmosphere that Gameplay has been okay with for years.

Well, I'm not okay with it. That's not the person I am, not the person I imagine any of us want to be, and regardless of how guilty many of us may be of these same things, we don't have to be guilty of them in the future. Let us change. Don't hold us to permanent toxicity because you've seen it happen before. Some time from now, someone is going to throw out an inappropriate comment in a heated moment. When that happens, what I would like to see from us is an immediate pause in the conversation to address that it isn't okay to talk like that, then we can continue with what we were talking about when we've addressed it. We don't have to crucify everyone who has ever said something about you that you didn't want to hear. And we don't have to weaponize the idea that we should be kind against legitimate IC disputes. All we have to do is recognize that there's a problem and resolve to do better in the future.

I don't know why you guys decided to take a very honest and genuine statement and turn it into an attacking grounds for each other. But that too is part of the problem. Stop trying to get rid of each other. Just be kind. It isn't that hard, y'all.

Just want to highlight this in case it gets lots because of the other nonsense.

[Blight-Bane]

Anyway, I don't give two fucks about Cormac's past history or what he's done to anyone or not.

You should. TNP did. Right or wrong, the result is hardly surprising.

[Escade]

Anyway, I don't give two fucks about Cormac's past history or what he's done to anyone or not.

You should. TNP did. Rightly or wrongly, the result is hardly surprising.

This discussion is not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. Oh my god. It's not about the NPO and their issues with Osiris and vice versa or whatever else GP nonsense is going on. It had nothing to do with politics in any way.

Is that even possible in NSGP? I guess not.

[Tim-Opolis]

This discussion is not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac. It's not about Cormac.

Isn't this discussion literally about Cormac though... like I get the "deeper meaning" vibe, but this literally all started out of a discussion about Cormac

Here's hoping TNP cuts their bullshit, though I ain't holding my breath. Good on Osiris for calling them out on it publicly. Despite some people arguing that this could/should have been resolved behind closed doors, TNP seems to be more keen on a snail-pace approach to controversies against them unless there's some kerosene thrown into the mix. I imagine a public statement help resolve this and bring it to light far more effectively.