Osiris | Danburg Seized!

[Neo Domais]

Go Osiris, nice statement, Pergamon needs to be perma banned from the NPO on CN, NS and PW.

[Pierconium]

It could not as easily be removed at a later stage as the leave-of-absence, classed as a ban, that Pergamon is on at the moment. It would not be as insulting, either.

A sovereign region can't be concerned about the delicate sensibilities of every region in the game while honoring its membership fully. This was not intended as an insult but was an acceptable compromise between the community and the leadership with the aim of recognizing Osiris' demand regarding Pergamon. Pergamon has been an active part of the internal community for a long time and pleasing our populace by allowing a dignified exit is, quite frankly, more important than pleasing Osiris. This would be true in any region I imagine.

Regardless, lifting a ban takes a few seconds on the control panel. The technicalities of the two processes are immaterial.

Correction: It is both.

Right, so you want Pergamon 'banned' whatever that means and you want to have Osiris to maintain external control of another GCR regions internal politics. That sounds...oddly familiar. Why are we fighting this supposed war again?

[Neo Domais]

Right, so you want Pergamon 'banned' whatever that means and you want to have Osiris to maintain external control of another GCR regions internal politics. That sounds...oddly familiar. Why are we fighting this supposed war again?

No we want the NPO to cease trying to control all of its fellow GCR's and some UCR's

[Kurnugia]

Go Osiris, nice statement, Pergamon needs to be perma banned from the NPO on CN, NS and PW.

ummm... This is getting into OOC. Other games should not be
affcted by purely NS IC action.

[Pierconium]

Right, so you want Pergamon 'banned' whatever that means and you want to have Osiris to maintain external control of another GCR regions internal politics. That sounds...oddly familiar. Why are we fighting this supposed war again?

No we want the NPO to cease trying to control all of its fellow GCR's and some UCR's

Interesting. Do you speak for Osiris? I'm just curious because this is not what the declaration of war states at all. It very clearly indicates the desire to see the NPO dismantled, the sovereignty of the Pacific compromised, and any future governmental actions overseen.

[Neo Domais]

Interesting. Do you speak for Osiris? I'm just curious because this is not what the declaration of war states at all. It very clearly indicates the desire to see the NPO dismantled, the sovereignty of the Pacific compromised, and any future governmental actions overseen.

I'm no, no I do not just stating what I think. I'm fighting alongside them and yes the NPO is to be dismantled. If the NPO would have just followed the demands of the NS GP community I wouldn't wish for that. My statement was to show that you have no right to complain about us opposing you and wishing for the end of the NPO, when you have and will continue to try to install puppet states in various regions.

[Xoriet]

Pergamon will not be banned from all branches of the New Pacific Order. NationStates has no jurisdiction over Politics and War and CyberNations, contrary to popular belief. He has lost his only NS community of five years. I told Osiris earlier that this would be met with considerable internal backlash. I was told that this was my problem. As such, we addressed it in a way that would not incite more internal strife within our own region than was already going to occur with any ban at all.

Pergamon has done nothing in PnW and CN to earn a permanent ban from either branch. All-branch bans are saved for people who have committed grave OOC acts against others, such as proven sexual harassment, and people who have committed offenses against all three branches. Pergamon has not met either qualification. NS NPO has already suffered a huge blow with the ban of Pergamon. I will not insult them further by pushing for a heavier punishment on behalf of a single branch.

Pergamon is banned from citizenship in NS NPO, from serving NS NPO in any capacity, from NS NPO's forums, from joining NS NPO chats on our Discord, from rejoining NS NPO via either CN or PnW under another identity, from serving as a piler for any operation involving NS NPO, and from returning to The Pacific region Gameside after his CTE. If he logs in again to postpone this, he will be banned immediately on the spot. He is banned from rejoining in any capacity.

We consider this enough in his case. The ban we issued was one from the branch he cared about most.

[Neo Domais]

Then whats with this self ban, I hear about?

[Big Bad Badger]

Oh, now there is a whole region of Quixotes.

It looks like Osiris wants assurances that the Sovereignty of governments across nationstates will no longer be disrupted by the NPO, by demanding the disruption of Sovereignty of the government of the NPO.

Once the Maginot line is drawn this will turn into hurling insults, leaking chats, and a variety of perceived slights that are shouted for the purpose of riling up the fury of the uninvolved rube and bandwagon hopper until the overwhelming majority of gameplay is standing at the gates with pitchfork and torch looking for their pound of flesh. The Ugliness generated will change gameplay from mundane to distasteful. All the while in The Pacific,the Who's Who of NPO history has been emerging. With their help, you will be inspiring 20 new Feux's and AMOM's to go out and do much worse.

All this to say, I have friends and foes on both sides of this. At this point, war is only winnable by the graces of the NPO in banning people and making assurances. They have come a long way on your demands. You haven't gotten everything and you never do in negotiations.

I want you all to remember this old adage my daddy taught me: the angry Simeon's hands get dirty too when they hurl shit.

[Pierconium]

Oh, now there is a whole region of Quixotes.

It looks like Osiris wants assurances that the Sovereignty of governments across nationstates will no longer be disrupted by the NPO, by demanding the disruption of Sovereignty of the government of the NPO.

Once the Maginot line is drawn this will turn into hurling insults, leaking chats, and a variety of perceived slights that are shouted for the purpose of riling up the fury of the uninvolved rube and bandwagon hopper until the overwhelming majority of gameplay is standing at the gates with pitchfork and torch looking for their pound of flesh. The Ugliness generated will change gameplay from mundane to distasteful. All the while in The Pacific,the Who's Who of NPO history has been emerging. With their help, you will be inspiring 20 new Feux's and AMOM's to go out and do much worse.

All this to say, I have friends and foes on both sides of this. At this point, war is only winnable by the graces of the NPO in banning people and making assurances. They have come a long way on your demands. You haven't gotten everything and you never do in negotiations.

I want you all to remember this old adage my daddy taught me: the angry Simeon's hands get dirty too when they hurl shit.

Indeed.

The problem with the current situation is that it has happened before. History records the Pacific as the villain in the ADN wars because of our (others and mine) activities in the North Pacific. But it fails to recognize that at the time TNP was a major part of the ADN, a staging ground for subversive activities against the Pacific, and party to many questionable activities in the name of 'defenderism'. It was effectively open warfare between GCRs and we did what we felt was necessary to survive. And we did.

And we will do so again if required.

If nothing else, I am a survivor.

[Xoriet]

Then whats with this self ban, I hear about?

Pergamon voluntarily submitted to this ban for the sake of The Pacific. However, none of us agreed to anything further than a ban from NS NPO. Just because it was a voluntary action does not mean it will not be enforced by the NS NPO. A voluntary ban does not mean he can choose to come back at any time. A ban is a ban. A ban is what was asked for and what was given. If it was not the complete ban they wanted, I have explained why already.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Then whats with this self ban, I hear about?

Pergamon voluntarily submitted to this ban for the sake of The Pacific. However, none of us agreed to anything further than a ban from NS NPO. Just because it was a voluntary action does not mean it will not be enforced by the NS NPO. A voluntary ban does not mean he can choose to come back at any time. A ban is a ban. A ban is what was asked for and what was given. If it was not the complete ban they wanted, I have explained why already.

Admitedly I would never voluntarily ban myself from anything.

I'm starting to understand this whole thing more actually; when people tell me to resign or do XYZ I don't want to do, you make it more and more likely it isn't going to happen. Ever. The people banned from the NPO have acted far less reasonably with the NPO than I would have done myself in that situation, I believe.
Regions protect their own, or at least for the most part they should. I don't like the NPO, but I'm surprised people have voluntarily bowed to foreign pressure and left it.

[Pierconium]

Pergamon voluntarily submitted to this ban for the sake of The Pacific. However, none of us agreed to anything further than a ban from NS NPO. Just because it was a voluntary action does not mean it will not be enforced by the NS NPO. A voluntary ban does not mean he can choose to come back at any time. A ban is a ban. A ban is what was asked for and what was given. If it was not the complete ban they wanted, I have explained why already.

Admitedly I would never voluntarily ban myself from anything.

I'm starting to understand this whole thing more actually; when people tell me to resign or do XYZ I don't want to do, you make it more and more likely it isn't going to happen. Ever. The people banned from the NPO have acted far less reasonably with the NPO than I would have done myself in that situation, I believe.
Regions protect their own, or at least for the most part they should. I don't like the NPO, but I'm surprised people have voluntarily bowed to foreign pressure and left it.

The NPO is more than an individual nation. It is more than the Emperor, more than the Senate, more than demagogues who occasionally pop up out of retirement. Individual nations have given up power and position within the NPO in order to serve the greater good on multiple occasions in its very long past.

[Kurnugia]

So... basically Perg was presented with a forced resignation from NS NPO. Which for all intents and purposes is a ban from NS NPO. And this still isn't enough? I mean even if he is banned properly from the NS NPO you could pull out of your arse the good ol' "BUT HE STILL CAN REJOIN LATER". As is evidenced by the AMOM and Feux objection to the ban.

I get why you are sceptical towards the NPO. But ffs, wait until you are tightening the noose if you are not primarily out for war. Try to use this a starting point for a long-term solution with the NPO. This attitude however, will not provide you with a long-term solution. Rather it will empower those that are relying primarily on those tactics even more.

[Pierconium]

I've been told that this declaration is just the statement of a rogue member of the Osiris government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual Osiris government declaration of war.

[Neo Domais]

I've been told that this declaration is just the statement of a rogue member of the Osiris government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual Osiris government declaration of war.

As the WFB dicates Mghnb is a guardian, I know with 100% certainly that this is not a just a rogue statement. If it is not official by the delegate RN it will be soon.

[Consular]

So hold on... How would have been a guaranteed ban look like in the eyes of Osi? I mean all bans can be undone and if you dont trust the NPO to uphold any promises, what was the point in giving a graceperiod before the declaration of war in the first place?

This one kinda has a point tbh. It looks a bit like you were looking for a reason to declare war and so ignored the inconvenient fact that your demands were met?

Though at the same time -- I also want to ask, since Xoriet has made such a big deal of it, talking him up etc, was losing Perg really that big a loss? I feel like he was more of a liability. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. I know there are members of the Order who think that.

[Jar Wattinree]

Though at the same time -- I also want to ask, since Xoriet has made such a big deal of it, talking him up etc, was losing Perg really that big a loss? I feel like he was more of a liability. I know I'm not the only one who thinks that. I know there are members of the Order who think that.

Yes it is a loss. A regrettable but nonetheless necessary loss.

[Syberis]

I've been told that this declaration is just the statement of a rogue member of the Osiris government. Is that correct or has this been approved by the Delegate et al? Just curious. I see no reason to continue engaging with the material of the statement if it is not an actual Osiris government declaration of war.

As the WFB dicates Mghnb is a guardian, I know with 100% certainly that this is not a just a rogue statement. If it is not official by the delegate RN it will be soon.

I'm not going to comment on the statement issued, but I will comment on the stated opinion that anything posted by a Guardian is the statement of the government.

That is factually wrong.

[Kurnugia]

As the WFB dicates Mghnb is a guardian, I know with 100% certainly that this is not a just a rogue statement. If it is not official by the delegate RN it will be soon.

I'm not going to comment on the statement issued, but I will comment on the stated opinion that anything posted by a Guardian is the statement of the government.

That is factually wrong.

da fuk?

Could we get a confirmation from the pharaoh? It's getting very confusing

[Syberis]

I'm not going to comment on the statement issued, but I will comment on the stated opinion that anything posted by a Guardian is the statement of the government.

That is factually wrong.

da fuk?

Could we get a confirmation from the pharaoh? It's getting very confusing

Allow me to clarify.

Not every word posted by a member of the Guardianship is the word of Osiris, though the Chairman of the Council of Guardians can, at the will of the Pharaoh, post on behalf of the government through an official statement. Normally such an official posting role would be served by the Heir Apparent, but as there's not one right now, Mike is the closest fit.

[Pierconium]

da fuk?

Could we get a confirmation from the pharaoh? It's getting very confusing

Allow me to clarify.

Not every word posted by a member of the Guardianship is the word of Osiris, though the Chairman of the Council of Guardians can, at the will of the Pharaoh, post on behalf of the government through an official statement. Normally such an official posting role would be served by the Heir Apparent, but as there's not one right now, Mike is the closest fit.

I see. So this is an official post from Osiris then, correct? Otherwise it would not have been posted, right?

[Xoriet]

I see. So this is an official post from Osiris then, correct? Otherwise it would not have been posted, right?

We will wait for an official statement from the Pharaoh herself for confirmation or denial of this declaration.

[Pierconium]

I see. So this is an official post from Osiris then, correct? Otherwise it would not have been posted, right?

We will wait for an official statement from the Pharaoh herself for confirmation or denial of this declaration.

Indeed. But the statement just made by Syberis indicates that 'Mike' is the closest fit for this sort of announcement and that posts like this on behalf of the government can only be made 'at the will of the Pharaoh'. Therefore, as the statement exists, it must be at the will of the Pharaoh. Otherwise it would not exist.

Unless, of course, there is some problem with the internal workings of Osiris. Heaven forbid.

[The Seeker of Power]

I'm sorry Osiris, but if anything, this is confusing.

Each and all bans in NS can be undone at a later time. There is no discussion about it: is just the way our world works. Had Ale choose to ban the individuals immediately, would you still have come up with this non-sense statement about "There [being] no assurance that in a year, or sooner, the bans will remain in place." ?

I mean, let's get things clear here: you are basically saying something along the lines of "We are disgusted by the fact that the NPO is incapable - as are all other NS regions - of imposing a perma-ban on Perg - due to the technical limitations of our realms." Is this it?

What was the point then?

I'm kind of disappointed. Let's be honest here: had I been the Emperor, I would have apologized to Perg for having to do what I had to do, and would have banned him. It is harsh, and I would have infuriated and alienated the community of my region. And then you would have said "Oh is not enough" and still come out with this joke... To what end?

I'm certainly disappointed AND confused at this point. So, is this official Osiris? I'd like to know...