Official Embassy of The South Pacific

[Cormactopia II]

Breaking news: Glen-Rhodes is now arguing in the Assembly of the South Pacific that the Charter shouldn't be amended to give the Assembly the power to terminate treaty alliances. That power, he maintains, should rest with the Cabinet. A significant blow to democracy and the rule of law in a region that throws those buzzwords around to attack its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

Yes, we are a mess, but how about you? Osiris doesn't seem to be doing well these days.

I missed this the first time around. Osiris is doing quite well, thanks for asking! We've had 82 posts on our forum today, more than all three other Sinkers (combined, even) and more than at least three of the Feeders. Of course, post count isn't the only measurement of a region's health, so let me also point out that we have a very active Skype chat, that today we had two relative newcomers join our cabinet, that our military is growing a little bit each day, that we are currently discussing a new treaty while TSP seems inclined to just keep repealing them, and that we're not bickering about whether our cabinet broke the law today -- primarily because our cabinet didn't do anything legally questionable to advance someone's sketchy personal agenda!

So, contrary to what you may have heard, Osiris is back and better than ever. I appreciate you inquiring about our well-being though. That's sweet.

[RiderSyl]

Can we all simmer down for a minute?

<snipping one and a half lines>

While we don't make huge moves on the global stage like overthrowing regional governments and installing ourselves as delegate

Oh, cool, a shot at another Sinker from The South Pacific!

Yeah, we threw out a Gatesville plant, and were left with the most stable and efficient regional government in Osiris' history. You guys let your government get so broken with a shitty "constitution" that your sitting delegate fought his forum staff and your assembly fractured apart.

Oh no, I forgot, only members of The South Pacific can take shots at other game-created regions. If the members of those game-created regions dare to speak back, the most unpopular Foreign Affairs minister in the game will rip up your treaty to shreds and make it sound like your fault!

[Cormactopia II]

You guys let your government get so broken with a shitty "constitution" that your sitting delegate fought his forum staff and your assembly fractured apart.

And let's not forget the best part of all: As terrible as that constitution was, this one is worse!

[Tsunamy]

2) I have stated that the alliance seemed to be in name only because there are been little involvement between the regions for some time. During my first term as delegate, I had run on the platform of renewing relations and Balder was the alliance member that notably didn't respond to a request for a meeting. Please take that how you will.

I'm sorry but Balder does not participate in the elections of TSP. Did you talk to our Statsminister or Minister of Foreign Affairs? Who exactly in Balder did you contact?

Was Glen-Rhodes slandering Balder and making up lies on the NS forums this outreach?

This was literally ... a year ago? And the Minister of Foreign Affairs wasn't Glen at the time.

I'm not looking to engage in a fight about this — just attempting to clarify something I said elsewhere that was brought up here. I give you the context of the election — not because you should have been paying attention — but because I (essentially) ran against Glen's foreign policy.

[Sandaoguo]

Breaking news: Glen-Rhodes is now arguing in the Assembly of the South Pacific that the Charter shouldn't be amended to give the Assembly the power to terminate treaty alliances. That power, he maintains, should rest with the Cabinet. A significant blow to democracy and the rule of law in a region that throws those buzzwords around to attack its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

I'd just like to point out that only one of us was elected in a free and fair election to the position we currently hold.

[Cormactopia II]

Breaking news: Glen-Rhodes is now arguing in the Assembly of the South Pacific that the Charter shouldn't be amended to give the Assembly the power to terminate treaty alliances. That power, he maintains, should rest with the Cabinet. A significant blow to democracy and the rule of law in a region that throws those buzzwords around to attack its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

I'd just like to point out that only one of us was elected in a free and fair election to the position we currently hold.

And I'd just like to point out that, despite that, only one of us consulted our legislature today about a treaty. The other one just did what he felt like doing.

You've lost even the faux moral high ground you previously occupied, Glen. Welcome to the mud!

[Solorni]

So now it appears that in addition to being unable to read Balder laws, Glen-Rhodes also seems to be unable to read both TSP laws and this treaty itself. This has to be some sort of record for a region that claims to be top class. Yet rather than owning up to this or Tsunamy taking responsibility or showing leadership he seems much more comfortable taking pot shots at Osiris.

This was literally ... a year ago? And the Minister of Foreign Affairs wasn't Glen at the time.

I'm not looking to engage in a fight about this — just attempting to clarify something I said elsewhere that was brought up here. I give you the context of the election — not because you should have been paying attention — but because I (essentially) ran against Glen's foreign policy.

Yet, where was the actual outreach? While Balder has constantly had to endure the attacks of Glen-Rhodes both on us and our allies, it appears that this outreach seems to have been rather non-existent. During my time as President of Europeia and I believe in Balder as well when I ran our military, we ran missions with The South Pacific and helped it achieve its objectives in the Warzones. That was the outreach I was a part of. What was yours?

I'd just like to point out that only one of us was elected in a free and fair election to the position we currently hold.

You continue to attack people without even owning up to the fact that you are unable to read the laws of your region, the laws of Balder and the treaty. I must admit I find this level of confidence amazing because in the regions I know, such a person would be fired fast. Surely part of being a MoFA in TSP is the ability to you know... be a MoFA?

[Tsunamy]

Can we all simmer down for a minute?

<snipping one and a half lines>

While we don't make huge moves on the global stage like overthrowing regional governments and installing ourselves as delegate

Oh, cool, a shot at another Sinker from The South Pacific!

Yeah, we threw out a Gatesville plant, and were left with the most stable and efficient regional government in Osiris' history. You guys let your government get so broken with a shitty "constitution" that your sitting delegate fought his forum staff and your assembly fractured apart.

Oh no, I forgot, only members of The South Pacific can take shots at other game-created regions. If the members of those game-created regions dare to speak back, the most unpopular Foreign Affairs minister in the game will rip up your treaty to shreds and make it sound like your fault!

Please, you can take as many shots as you like. If you want to believe that Osiris is the center of the universe and TSP is a backwater sh--hole by all means. You're not hurting my feelings and I refuse to get in the gutter with you.

I'm simply providing some context since my name was evoked. No one in TSP has to answer to Osiris, whether or not our Charter is "shitty."

[Sandaoguo]

Glen-Rhodes crusade against non-defender treatied allies of TSP continues.

Do you have this bookmarked?

I mean to be honest this whole issue makes a complete mockery of the TSP Charter. Treaties get the same treatment in the Charter as general laws. Can the TSP Cabinet also randomly decide it wishes to repeal laws but it doesn't need to go to an Assembly vote? The whole concept of doing this in this underhanded way instead of taking it to a proper vote makes a mockery of the democratic principles that TSP used to be run on.

Actually, treaties do not get the same treatment as general laws. The Assembly is not allowed to negotiate and ratify a treaty itself, for example. 98% of all foreign policy authority is granted exclusively to the Cabinet. The Assembly's role in foreign policy is to ratify treaties presented to it by the Cabinet. Ratification is not identical to originating a bill and 'owning' the vote, which is what would make Cabinet nullification of a law totally unacceptable. The Assembly's role is ratification only.

That's a check in our separation of powers system. By default, foreign policy is an executive function. The previous Charter had an additional check requiring a vote to dissolve a treaty. That provision no longer exists. Belschaft, primarily, is upset that the Assembly didn't get to vote on it, because he's used to it working that way. That doesn't mean the Cabinet acted against the Charter. This whole argument is just ridiculous. If the Cabinet doesn't consider Balder an ally, and it's the Cabinet only that's responsible for actually doing things with allies, where do we go from here?

Rumour has it that you are a great academic, but yet it seems you are having some difficulties with basic reading comprehension - if you read Article 7 it says "treaty shall be considered void if a signatory region makes a post to that effect in their embassy on the other signatories forums"

I consider this sufficient, but if you want to be a pedant, I'll post in the forum embassy as soon as you give me posting privileges.

Also, if Rach got a warning to stop the petty sniping BS about my real-life education, do you really think it's a good idea for you to do the same thing? I don't know why you feel the need to attack me personally.

[Tsunamy]

So now it appears that in addition to being unable to read Balder laws, Glen-Rhodes also seems to be unable to read both TSP laws and this treaty itself. This has to be some sort of record for a region that claims to be top class. Yet rather than owning up to this or Tsunamy taking responsibility or showing leadership he seems much more comfortable taking pot shots at Osiris.

This was literally ... a year ago? And the Minister of Foreign Affairs wasn't Glen at the time.

I'm not looking to engage in a fight about this — just attempting to clarify something I said elsewhere that was brought up here. I give you the context of the election — not because you should have been paying attention — but because I (essentially) ran against Glen's foreign policy.

Yet, where was the actual outreach? While Balder has constantly had to endure the attacks of Glen-Rhodes both on us and our allies, it appears that this outreach seems to have been rather non-existent. During my time as President of Europeia and I believe in Balder as well when I ran our military, we ran missions with The South Pacific and helped it achieve its objectives in the Warzones. That was the outreach I was a part of. What was yours?

I had nothing to do with this decision — so you're taking the wrong person to task. I'm telling you what I experienced a year ago. Trust me, if the perceived slight was a big enough deal to break the alliance, you would have had more contact.

As such, I refuse to "take responsibility" for something I didn't decide. And, in the future, I won't provide context when my name is invoked.

[Ikania]

You guys let your government get so broken with a shitty "constitution" that your sitting delegate fought his forum staff and your assembly fractured apart.

And let's not forget the best part of all: As terrible as that constitution was, this one is worse!

Can we all simmer down for a minute?

<snipping one and a half lines>

While we don't make huge moves on the global stage like overthrowing regional governments and installing ourselves as delegate

Oh, cool, a shot at another Sinker from The South Pacific!

Yeah, we threw out a Gatesville plant, and were left with the most stable and efficient regional government in Osiris' history. You guys let your government get so broken with a shitty "constitution" that your sitting delegate fought his forum staff and your assembly fractured apart.

Oh no, I forgot, only members of The South Pacific can take shots at other game-created regions. If the members of those game-created regions dare to speak back, the most unpopular Foreign Affairs minister in the game will rip up your treaty to shreds and make it sound like your fault!

Look at that, Statler! Look at how we burned them! AHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

"Gatesville Couper" is about as clever a nickname as $hillary Killton or Barack HUSSEIN Obummer. Do you really think this term is any more inpactful to people than "Benghazi"?

I do admire, however, your adamant willingness to be a quisling, Syl. Now, I'm sure the vibrant and functioning democracies of NS are perfectly fine without gloating on behalf of actual coupers.

[RiderSyl]

If you want to believe that Osiris is the center of the universe and TSP is a backwater sh--hole by all means.

I didn't see me post that.

I refuse to get in the gutter with you.

Tsunamy, you were already in the gutter when I got here. You can't suddenly get out of it, after I jump in, and claim you've had the high ground all along. This is the internet, Tsu. People can read.

I'm simply providing some context since my name was evoked. No one in TSP has to answer to Osiris, whether or not our Charter is "shitty."

Oh, okay. When my name gets 'evoked', I just lurk to see if something nice was said about me.
Also, yeah, you're right. Nobody in TSP has to answer to anyone in Osiris. So... Why are you?

"Gatesville Couper" is about as clever a nickname as $hillary Killton or Barack HUSSEIN Obummer. Do you really think this term is any more inpactful to people than "Benghazi"?

I do admire, however, your adamant willingness to be a quisling, Syl. Now, I'm sure the vibrant and functioning democracies of NS are perfectly fine without gloating on behalf of actual coupers.

'Gatesville couper' is just describing what he was. I have no other response for this weird post, except for... what the fuck, Ike?

[North East Somerset]

I'm sorry but Balder does not participate in the elections of TSP. Did you talk to our Statsminister or Minister of Foreign Affairs? Who exactly in Balder did you contact?

Was Glen-Rhodes slandering Balder and making up lies on the NS forums this outreach?

This was literally ... a year ago? And the Minister of Foreign Affairs wasn't Glen at the time.

I'm not looking to engage in a fight about this — just attempting to clarify something I said elsewhere that was brought up here. I give you the context of the election — not because you should have been paying attention — but because I (essentially) ran against Glen's foreign policy.

How can you talk about outreach when it's taken TSP over 5 months to decide that Balder broke Article I of the Treaty - and then instead of informing us first, you go straight to a Gameplay statement designed to grandstand.

The reality is that you don't even want to answer the question, because Balder is not remotely guilty of ignoring TSP. It's just an excuse, and a feeble one at that - to enable Glen-Rhodes to push his agenda, because clearly no one involved in TSP politics has the guts to stand up to him, and so they view doing what he says as the easiest option.

This is the perfect demonstration and culmination of why TSP is no longer an independent region, because it doesn't even have the freedom of spirit or willpower to break free from the clutches of one (with Unibot being mainly absent recently) not particularly skilled and self-confessed instrument of the defender/anti-imperialist bloc.

[Chinchin the Dark Lord]

I'm just going to sit back and watch as the two biggest bureaucracies on Gameplay go at it...very slowly. Bets on how long it will take for one of the governments to even lift a finger against the other?

[Ryccia]

While I kind of agree with your point, I kinda agree with this termination(even if it is potentially illegal).

Wait, wait, wait. Back up the bus. Potentially illegal, you say?

It didn't occur to me to ask this from the start, but was this termination approved by the Assembly of the South Pacific?

Edit to answer my own question: Nope!

Yes. I believe that is an accurate statement. It is, to my very own eyes, illegal.

[The Ghost of Festavo]

Breaking news: Glen-Rhodes is now arguing in the Assembly of the South Pacific that the Charter shouldn't be amended to give the Assembly the power to terminate treaty alliances. That power, he maintains, should rest with the Cabinet. A significant blow to democracy and the rule of law in a region that throws those buzzwords around to attack its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

Cormac is about the best example of a fervent supporter of democracy and the rule of law that I can think of. Bravo.

[Ryccia]

It's disappointing how this "Ryccia" player appears to be ignoring the constant offensive remarks of Glen-Rhodes who is the initiator of all the sniping between himself and many other players, this is despite the fact that he runs TSPs foreign affairs while I am not responsible for it at all. Amusingly, it appears that Glen-Rhodes also does not even know the laws of his own region given he apparently is doing this illegally. Hopefully TSP can continue to rebuild in the future and gain the level of government befitting its stature.

Hey, I don't know who started what really. I don't look much to other regions until recently and what Glen has done in them(even though he is quite suspicious to me).

First, I am not a new player to NS. I have been a proud TSPer for three years and still going. I am nobody's puppet.

Second, you are right, in a way. I don't care about this treaty, for we do not interact at all. The excuse for the treaty for it to be dissolved is no reason to dissolve it(even though you're the Queen of Balder). Really, I don't care, you don't care, so why not do some house cleaning? There is no purpose for it anymore.

[Solorni]

I genuinely want to know what sort of expectations and standards people in TSP expect from their ministers. I've seen greater outcry in Balder and Europeia over smaller gaffes and less of an inability to their job correctly.

Hey, I don't know who started what really. I don't look much to other regions until recently and what Glen has done in them(even though he is quite suspicious to me).

Do you feel that Glen-Rhodes meets your standards as a Foreign Minister?

First, I am not a new player to NS. I have been a proud TSPer for three years and still going. I am nobody's puppet.

That is good to hear.

Second, you are right, in a way. I don't care about this treaty, for we do not interact at all. The excuse for the treaty for it to be dissolved is no reason to dissolve it(even though you're the Queen of Balder). Really, I don't care, you don't care, so why not do some house cleaning? There is no purpose for it anymore.

Despite the fact that TSP has changed a lot since the initial alliance, with a lot of the players who shared close ties with us gone, we don't believe in making political choices based on personality. It's just like real life. Just because Obama criticizes Britain and France, it does not mean that those countries will simply destroy their alliances. We always want to play for the long term. So while TSP currently has players in government hostile to Balder who do not adhere to our code of conduct as well as players in government who simply do not reflect the level of a region TSP truly is, we do not base our alliance simply on such short term obstacles.

The hope was that things will eventually get better and that our regions could both once again work towards common objectives.

[Ryccia]

I genuinely want to know what sort of expectations and standards people in TSP expect from their ministers. I've seen greater outcry in Balder and Europeia over smaller gaffes and less of an inability to their job correctly.

Hey, I don't know who started what really. I don't look much to other regions until recently and what Glen has done in them(even though he is quite suspicious to me).

Do you feel that Glen-Rhodes meets your standards as a Foreign Minister?

First, I am not a new player to NS. I have been a proud TSPer for three years and still going. I am nobody's puppet.

That is good to hear.

Second, you are right, in a way. I don't care about this treaty, for we do not interact at all. The excuse for the treaty for it to be dissolved is no reason to dissolve it(even though you're the Queen of Balder). Really, I don't care, you don't care, so why not do some house cleaning? There is no purpose for it anymore.

Despite the fact that TSP has changed a lot since the initial alliance, with a lot of the players who shared close ties with us gone, we don't believe in making political choices based on personality. It's just like real life. Just because Obama criticizes Britain and France, it does not mean that those countries will simply destroy their alliances. We always want to play for the long term. So while TSP currently has players in government hostile to Balder who do not adhere to our code of conduct as well as players in government who simply do not reflect the level of a region TSP truly is, we do not base our alliance simply on such short term obstacles.

The hope was that things will eventually get better and that our regions could both once again work towards common objectives.

First, no, I don't think so. I've heard that he burns bridges with regions he personally does not like when he's MoFA. Then again, I've never been a worker in the MoFA(I wish though) and not experienced in foreign affairs, so I can't give an accurate statement. Besides, almost no one runs for the position, so sometimes it's really unopposed.

Second, I do hope we can, so we can avoid more conflicts and know other regions better.

[Solorni]

So now it appears that in addition to being unable to read Balder laws, Glen-Rhodes also seems to be unable to read both TSP laws and this treaty itself. This has to be some sort of record for a region that claims to be top class. Yet rather than owning up to this or Tsunamy taking responsibility or showing leadership he seems much more comfortable taking pot shots at Osiris.


Yet, where was the actual outreach? While Balder has constantly had to endure the attacks of Glen-Rhodes both on us and our allies, it appears that this outreach seems to have been rather non-existent. During my time as President of Europeia and I believe in Balder as well when I ran our military, we ran missions with The South Pacific and helped it achieve its objectives in the Warzones. That was the outreach I was a part of. What was yours?

I had nothing to do with this decision — so you're taking the wrong person to task. I'm telling you what I experienced a year ago. Trust me, if the perceived slight was a big enough deal to break the alliance, you would have had more contact.

As such, I refuse to "take responsibility" for something I didn't decide. And, in the future, I won't provide context when my name is invoked.

So do you think that Glen-Rhodes meets your standards as a Minister of Foreign Affairs?

[RiderSyl]

I'm just going to sit back and watch as the two biggest bureaucracies on Gameplay go at it...very slowly. Bets on how long it will take for one of the governments to even lift a finger against the other?

You bet first.

Breaking news: Glen-Rhodes is now arguing in the Assembly of the South Pacific that the Charter shouldn't be amended to give the Assembly the power to terminate treaty alliances. That power, he maintains, should rest with the Cabinet. A significant blow to democracy and the rule of law in a region that throws those buzzwords around to attack its fellow Feeders and Sinkers.

Cormac is about the best example of a fervent supporter of democracy and the rule of law that I can think of. Bravo.

Well, he's a better Pharaoh than you were...

[Ikania]

I don't think betraying a constitution you swore to uphold and overthrowing the elected leadership of a region just after getting off a ban looks very good on a resume.

[Sandaoguo]

Despite the fact that TSP has changed a lot since the initial alliance, with a lot of the players who shared close ties with us gone, we don't believe in making political choices based on personality. It's just like real life. Just because Obama criticizes Britain and France, it does not mean that those countries will simply destroy their alliances. We always want to play for the long term. So while TSP currently has players in government hostile to Balder who do not adhere to our code of conduct as well as players in government who simply do not reflect the level of a region TSP truly is, we do not base our alliance simply on such short term obstacles.

Again, if your personal sniping and attacks were the reason for the dissolution, then the treaty would've been shredded a long time ago. I know you know that I don't really take your jabs that personally. Though this newfound need to question the quality of my real-life education is striking a nerve.

[Solorni]

Despite the fact that TSP has changed a lot since the initial alliance, with a lot of the players who shared close ties with us gone, we don't believe in making political choices based on personality. It's just like real life. Just because Obama criticizes Britain and France, it does not mean that those countries will simply destroy their alliances. We always want to play for the long term. So while TSP currently has players in government hostile to Balder who do not adhere to our code of conduct as well as players in government who simply do not reflect the level of a region TSP truly is, we do not base our alliance simply on such short term obstacles.

Again, if your personal sniping and attacks were the reason for the dissolution, then the treaty would've been shredded a long time ago. I know you know that I don't really take your jabs that personally. Though this newfound need to question the quality of my real-life education is striking a nerve.

Your ability to do your job as MoFA and your quality as a NSer, has little to do with your education. Despite your desire to bring up your rl education here, I have not mentioned or inferred it at all. As I told Sedge, I'm being a good girl

[North East Somerset]

Glen-Rhodes crusade against non-defender treatied allies of TSP continues.

Do you have this bookmarked?

Yes, because it's important to keep reminding people that you actually confessed to pushing for a defender/anti-imperialist agenda against the independent position of TSP as part of a "Cold War" that you and Unibot dreamt up, presumably to fulfill some kind of innate need, purpose or desire.

Actually, treaties do not get the same treatment as general laws. The Assembly is not allowed to negotiate and ratify a treaty itself, for example. 98% of all foreign policy authority is granted exclusively to the Cabinet. The Assembly's role in foreign policy is to ratify treaties presented to it by the Cabinet. Ratification is not identical to originating a bill and 'owning' the vote, which is what would make Cabinet nullification of a law totally unacceptable. The Assembly's role is ratification only.

That's a check in our separation of powers system. By default, foreign policy is an executive function. The previous Charter had an additional check requiring a vote to dissolve a treaty. That provision no longer exists. Belschaft, primarily, is upset that the Assembly didn't get to vote on it, because he's used to it working that way. That doesn't mean the Cabinet acted against the Charter. This whole argument is just ridiculous. If the Cabinet doesn't consider Balder an ally, and it's the Cabinet only that's responsible for actually doing things with allies, where do we go from here?

You make a reasonable argument that nothing is explicitly stopping you from repealing the Treaty, but equally nothing is giving you the authority to - and the spirit of the law is quite clearly in involving the Assembly in the ratification of all decisions, whether they are repeals or not. To argue that Treaties are different to Laws because they are mentioned separately is neither here nor there. You could just as well say that Laws don't need to be repealed by the Assembly, but Treaties do - based on that logic. It's not really a matter of concern to me, its just a question for TSP's democratic values whether they will buy in to this.

As for your "this whole argument is ridiculous" and the "Cabinet considers" Balder not to be an ally, I will say this: surely it's the Cabinet's job, in a region which prides itself on upholding democratic principles and rights, to implement the Will of the People. And would not the legislature, open to all citizens, constitute the Will of the people? Food for thought perhaps.

I consider this sufficient, but if you want to be a pedant, I'll post in the forum embassy as soon as you give me posting privileges.

Also, if Rach got a warning to stop the petty sniping BS about my real-life education, do you really think it's a good idea for you to do the same thing? I don't know why you feel the need to attack me personally.

Well I'm afraid the Article is very clear, in that it's not sufficient. I'm sure you'll have no difficulty in getting the designated ambassador to post there.

And I'm not attacking you personally, indeed I find it somewhat astonishing that despite the fact you have brought up your academic pedigree to defend your arguments far more times than I have mentioned it, that you view any reference to it as a personal attack. It's like you expect everyone to calmly acquiesce to your authority, and maybe that works in TSP. But anyway, all I was doing was contrasting your repeated claims*, with the reality of your comprehension in the context of this treaty.

as a true academic

as understood in my academic field

having actually studied this issue in an academic setting

It's part of what I got my degree in.

Part of my degree did involve