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by Libetarian Republics » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:35 am
by Sandaoguo » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:41 am
Evil Wolf wrote:Sandaoguo wrote:It's not the Reichsadler. It's literally the Nazi Party emblem with a fist photoshopped into it.
"The Reichsadler ("Imperial Eagle") was the heraldic eagle, derived from the Roman eagle standard, used by the Holy Roman Emperors and in modern coats of arms of Germany, including those of the Second German Empire (1871-1918), the Weimar Republic (1919-1933) and the "Third Reich" (Nazi Germany, 1933-1945)."
So, you're wrong. If it was "literally the Nazi Party emblem" it would be a tiled Swastika, the universally recognized symbol of Nazism. Serious, how do you not know that?
What amuses about the old Invaders Army flag is that it appears to have a black power symbol below the Reichsadler. So, if what Funk and Glen say is true and somehow the inclusion of the Reichsadler makes all inderations of Invaders since 2005 into "Nazis", then the inclusion of the Black Power symbol must mean that Invaders Army were Black Power Nazis. Black Skin Heads, if you would.
And let's not even get into the bad Latin of the Motto, which I can only guess is suppose to very roughly translate to "I am therefore I conquer". So maybe Invaders Army, and therefore The Invaders, are Black Skinhead Nazis who love Julius Caesar and René Descartes? This is all getting so confusing.
Another possibility exists however. Is it possible, and follow me on this now, that maybe, just maybe, we're all reading into this far too much and being completely silly?
Nah, I didn't think so either.
Onderkelkia wrote:Regardless of the intention, using this flag, especially after these facts have been pointed out, is grossly inappropriate and offensive.
by Scardino » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:38 pm
by RiderSyl » Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:59 pm
Onderkelkia wrote:Regardless of the intention, using this flag, especially after these facts have been pointed out, is grossly inappropriate and offensive.
by Brunhizzle » Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:35 pm
Ridersyl wrote:I'd rather there not be any Nazi imagery on NationStates, but that's something to call Max about.
If The Invaders want to keep the modified Parteisadler, then that's their decision to make. Nothing anyone else can really do about it.
by RiderSyl » Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:41 pm
Brunhizzle wrote:We can continue not to work with organizations that don't understand the bad taste that is operating with Nazi imagery.
by Cormactopia II » Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:47 pm
Brunhizzle wrote:Ridersyl wrote:I'd rather there not be any Nazi imagery on NationStates, but that's something to call Max about.
If The Invaders want to keep the modified Parteisadler, then that's their decision to make. Nothing anyone else can really do about it.
We can continue not to work with organizations that don't understand the bad taste that is operating with Nazi imagery.
by Brunhizzle » Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:58 pm
Cormactopia II wrote:[
Would Europeia have worked with them anyway?
by Cormactopia II » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:08 pm
Brunhizzle wrote:Trinnien mentioned earlier that Europeia withdrew from Singapore because of the Nazi imagery but beyond that we had worked with both KGB and TCB in the past.
Brunhizzle wrote:Personally, I don't believe we can ask anyone with Jewish heritage to ignore the obvious heritage that TI's flag owns simply because they maintain that it isn't that big of a deal. This isn't a matter of working with another region's military despite drama and outside pressure but wanting to create an environment in which all non-discriminatory groups can enjoy their stay.
by RiderSyl » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:22 pm
Pied Piper wrote:I must say, your flag does still look fascist as hell
by Cormactopia II » Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:41 pm
Ridersyl wrote:Looking back, when The Invaders reboot by Knot was introduced to Gameplay in early June, the very first comment brought this whole issue up.Pied Piper wrote:I must say, your flag does still look fascist as hell
But nobody cared then. That makes me suspicious of whether this is now a natural reaction to the flag, manufactured controversy, or both.
by Falapatorius » Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:04 pm
Cormactopia II wrote:I think this can go too far, and in this case it has gone too far. The Invaders don't intend to embrace Nazism with their flag, despite the shared imagery. They're being equated with Nazis by some participants in this thread, and there are calls to shun them and refuse to work with them. Where does that end? Should Osiris be equated with fascists because Fedele is our Marshal General, his flag is an anarcho-fascist joke flag, and we won't either force him to remove his flag or remove him from office? Should we also be shunned?
Cormactopia II wrote:I think what the South Pacific and Europeia actually want is to create an environment in which everyone plays by their rules, and anything that offends them is disallowed. That has repercussions far beyond this issue. Why should The Invaders, or anyone else, be dictated to by the South Pacific or Europeia? If The Invaders were actually fascist, I would be right there with you on this issue, but they aren't and you all know it. That you are offended is not sufficient reason to shun a region.
by T E Lawrence » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:18 pm
Brunhizzle wrote:Personally, I don't believe we can ask anyone with Jewish heritage to ignore the obvious heritage that TI's flag owns simply because they maintain that it isn't that big of a deal. This isn't a matter of working with another region's military despite drama and outside pressure but wanting to create an environment in which all non-discriminatory groups can enjoy their stay.
by Brunhizzle » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:55 pm
T E Lawrence wrote:Brunhizzle wrote:Personally, I don't believe we can ask anyone with Jewish heritage to ignore the obvious heritage that TI's flag owns simply because they maintain that it isn't that big of a deal. This isn't a matter of working with another region's military despite drama and outside pressure but wanting to create an environment in which all non-discriminatory groups can enjoy their stay.
I'm... absolutely astounded. See my above comments.
-- Lawrence.
by T E Lawrence » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:40 am
by Tim-Opolis » Tue Aug 02, 2016 2:56 am
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by Rare Steakman Medium » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:09 am
by Onderkelkia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:30 am
T E Lawrence wrote:This decision was made due to the fact that Hydra Command seeks to appease their political allies in Europeia and the LKE by forfeiting our relationship. Under the threat of the withdrawal of imperialist and independent support from their invasions, they have chosen to side with their non-raider friends.
T E Lawrence wrote:In the past, it has always been the raiders that dictate imperialist/independent policy towards them. It is disappointing to see that the tide has changed.
by Cormactopia II » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:02 am
Tim-Opolis wrote:I must say, however, that Hydra Command's planned actions are refreshing to hear and it's nice to see other invader groups following the standard towards The Invaders set by The Black Hawks...
Either way, HydraCom, you kids are alright.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:01 am
Rare Steakman Medium wrote:I am a little disappointed with Hydra. Surely they of all people know that deserting allies for fair weather friends is, even if a good short term move, a frankly idiotic long term one. Hopefully our regions can move past this so the vultures who are already sniffing around this thread don't gain the solid upper hand.
Tim-Opolis wrote:Given that The Invaders themselves are admitting this news was gleaned by their intelligence department, it would seem that HydraCom clearly aren't losing much from a relationship in which one party was spying on the other. I must say, however, that Hydra Command's planned actions are refreshing to hear and it's nice to see other invader groups following the standard towards The Invaders set by The Black Hawks. The fascist symbologies in the flag of of Ivo's region, I'm sure are not the only reason Hydra had.
The follow-up rhetoric from The Invaders in regards to dictating independent and imperialist military policy only confirms that groups along the likes of The Invaders view groups like LKE and ERN as militaries with policies to be dictated rather than military partners. It's truly a disappointing admission, and I certainly would hope other invader regions don't harbor similar beliefs.
Either way, HydraCom, you kids are alright.
T E Lawrence wrote:
In the interest of raiding, there will be no further sanctions taken. The Cause, as defined by Domination6, is a vital part of our Code: "Do what is best for invading/raiding no matter of rank, region, or faction."
Signed,
The Invaders Command Council
Onderkelkia wrote:
If we had supplied reinforcements to HYDRA Command in Singapore, we would have been going against our previously stated position.
To my knowledge, the only region who would not work with The Invaders on the grounds that Ivo is unacceptable as an individual are The Black Hawks, given the statement they released following the "Predator" scandal, and they are the most illustrious and distinguished raider region in the game. So any attempt to create a Raider/Independent divide on this issue is downright ridiculous.
Cormactopia II wrote:Tim-Opolis wrote:I must say, however, that Hydra Command's planned actions are refreshing to hear and it's nice to see other invader groups following the standard towards The Invaders set by The Black Hawks...
Either way, HydraCom, you kids are alright.
If you're being praised by defenders for your disruption(s) to raider unity, you're doing something wrong.
You all -- all of you who are doing this bickering, not just The Invaders, not just HYDRA -- need to get your acts together. Cutting relations with fellow raiders because of pressure from defenders and whatever Europeia even is these days? Spying on each other? Attacking each other in public? It's absolutely ridiculous, as a raider region trying to stay above the feuds, trying to navigate the tangled web of raider regions that are bickering with each other right now. Raiders are better than this, and the raider sphere is being utterly demolished by defenders and moderates in non-raider regions who are dictating the terms of raider capitulation to their demands. And most raiders are surrendering to their demands, for some reason. Knock it off. You're disgracing the raiders who came before you.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Sygian II » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:21 am
Cormactopia II wrote:You all -- all of you who are doing this bickering, not just The Invaders, not just HYDRA -- need to get your acts together. Cutting relations with fellow raiders because of pressure from defenders and whatever Europeia even is these days?
Benevolent Thomas wrote:The Black Hawks continue to be the largest and most successful invader organization in NationStates
by Revall » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:36 am
Scardino wrote:Allow me to further illustrate my point. Am I to assume that every person on NationStates who flies the hammer and sickle that was used by the Soviets is a proponent of the mass murder of academics, religious people, artists, members of the bourgeois, and dissenters? That would be an absurd assumption. Yet some would have us believe that flying an eagle designed after or derived from this one marks support for the atrocities carried out under Hitler.
Perhaps they had more appreciation for contrast and minimalist design than mass murder and racial prejudice. That would explain further minimizing the design elements of the eagle.
Scardino wrote:This all seems to be an example of some people working very hard to be upset.
by Klaus Devestatorie » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:45 am
by Cormactopia II » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:53 am
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Ah, Moderate. I know who that one's pointed at. You're not the first and won't be the last. Rather be a moderate than an extremist
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