Osiris Fraternal Order: Abdication of the Pharaoh

[Fedele]

While it is unfortunate to break up this talk, we have a development and a message from your Pharaoh.

Following an extremely successful stealth training operation, the Sekhmet Legion of Osiris has taken Hypernova house. This operation has seen the Legion's point nation rise to the Delegacy, accumulate endorsements and build influence, remove Border Control from the native Regional Officers, completely dismiss the native ROs, and appoint our own sleepers as ROs -- all while completely escaping the detection of defenders.

The following Legionnaires have participated in this operation:

Marshal General Fedele
Field Commander Myrkavhal
Raider Yunoa
Soldier Biyah
Raider Rushtaria

The occupation of Hypernova house just proves stealth is still a viable tactic in the age of the World Activity page, even with numerous defenders active at nearly every update. This is the Legion's first operation since Osiris announced last week that we would reaffirm our raider alignment, and this is the level of excellence the world can expect as we move forward.

We look forward to seeing if defenders who were asleep at the wheel can take back Hypernova house now that we've done their spotting for them. We'll be waiting!

[Cormactopia II]

Great results after just a week on the job for our new Marshal General, and the entire Legion did an awesome job. Very proud!

[RiderSyl]

Awesome stuff, Legion.

I've realized responding to Ike in any capacity is more pointless than telling Benevolent Thomas that tag raiding is fun.
So, go ahead, turn up the megaphone and sprinkle more salt on the propaganda. It's not going to trigger a response anymore.

[Revall]

Nice work Legion!

[Caelapes]

What's with your Marshal General flying a fascist flag?

[Fedele]

This is not a fascist flag. This is an Anarcho-Fascist flag. Anarcho-Fascism believes in generous political freedoms and violent oppression of the masses by the masses.

[Ikania]

Awesome stuff, Legion.

I've realized responding to Ike in any capacity is more pointless than telling Benevolent Thomas that tag raiding is fun.
So, go ahead, turn up the megaphone and sprinkle more salt on the propaganda. It's not going to trigger a response anymore.

You would! I didn't think you'd come around.

[Caelapes]

This is not a fascist flag. This is an Anarcho-Fascist flag. Anarcho-Fascism believes in generous political freedoms and violent oppression of the masses by the masses.

Oh! Silly me, sitting here thinking that a flag designed after the Nazi German flag and sporting a literal fasces was a fascist flag. How ignorant that I did not realize it was an anarcho-fascist flag.

Anarcho-fascism is perhaps the stupidest completely made up ideology I've ever heard of.

edit: The fact that Osiris is comfortable with appointing an "Anarcho-" Fascist as their Vizier of War makes me really question the early promise that Osiris was interested in focusing on antifascist operations. It certainly makes the current embassies with The Internationale and our former refuge region The Red and Black incompatible.

[Scardino]

This is not a fascist flag. This is an Anarcho-Fascist flag. Anarcho-Fascism believes in generous political freedoms and violent oppression of the masses by the masses.

Oh! Silly me, sitting here thinking that a flag designed after the Nazi German flag and sporting a literal fasces was a fascist flag. How ignorant that I did not realize it was an anarcho-fascist flag.

Anarcho-fascism is perhaps the stupidest completely made up ideology I've ever heard of.

edit: The fact that Osiris is comfortable with appointing an "Anarcho-" Fascist as their Vizier of War makes me really question the early promise that Osiris was interested in focusing on antifascist operations. It certainly makes the current embassies with The Internationale and our former refuge region The Red and Black incompatible.

You can't be expected to know every bit of NationStates history but Fedele's satirical use of Anarcho-Fascism is not a new development by any means. It's unfortunate that, instead of either appreciating or dismissing a simple joke, you find the need to resort to self-righteous indignation. Anarcho-Fascism is a trope I started here in NationStates in 2005 or 2006 while combating Nazis. It is a mockery of them and, at the same time, a mockery of those would inevitably be needlessly offended by an obviously self-contradictory political ideology, you being the latest example. Effective satire, I suppose, should not be immediately recognized as being satire so perhaps it is performing better than I give it credit.

Even that aside, the fascis is a symbol originally used by the Roman Empire and currently used by several democratic republic governments as a minor symbol of unity and strength. Let's not discuss the merits of Soviet style oppression and violent tyranny, which is estimated to be responsible for far more bloodshed, while we are on the topic of objectionable imagery. It seems some ideological symbols are simply more politically correct than others. That hammer and sickle, wielded by such ruthless mass murderers, has been used by many other governments now just as the fascis has. Now, if you don't mind, we should be celebrating the Pharaoh's latest conquest instead of bickering over whose satirical political ideology is too objectionable to be allowed representation. There, we see the old soviet style of discussion with dissenters.

[RiderSyl]

What we have here is a case of Poe's law.

[Caelapes]

Considering that anarcho-fascism (sometimes called nationalist anarchism) is something that is real and not just something that you made up as a joke on NationStates dot net, it's not out of the realm of possibility to see someone genuinely adhering to that ideology, as plainly absurd as it may be to people living in reality.

And while your equating-Soviets-with-Nazis threadjack is thrilling, this isn't General, so I'll just let it go.

[Fedele]

We are satisfied with the growing influence in the conquered region.

[Cormactopia II]

Oh! Silly me, sitting here thinking that a flag designed after the Nazi German flag and sporting a literal fasces was a fascist flag. How ignorant that I did not realize it was an anarcho-fascist flag.

Anarcho-fascism is perhaps the stupidest completely made up ideology I've ever heard of.

edit: The fact that Osiris is comfortable with appointing an "Anarcho-" Fascist as their Vizier of War makes me really question the early promise that Osiris was interested in focusing on antifascist operations. It certainly makes the current embassies with The Internationale and our former refuge region The Red and Black incompatible.

How it could have escaped your notice that this was a joke pre-title and flag, I'm really not sure.

I think you may be right about the incompatibility of those embassies though. Osiris doesn't respond well to kneejerk threats made based on assumptions you should have known better than to make. Did you really think I would allow the appointment of a fascist to anything? I guess more than four years of solid commitment to anti-fascist operations doesn't gain one much respect or trust on the NationStates left.

The embassy with The Internationale is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.
The embassy with North Korea is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.
The embassy with The Red and Black is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.

You got your wish. The Red Fleet and Korean People's Army can look elsewhere next time you're looking for GCR support for your operations. Obviously it doesn't pay to work closely with you for years; we're all just "the fash" if we're not obsessed with this 24/7.

[Fedele]

Apparently, no grace is earned by years of anti-fascist military operations on my part or helping to destroy some of the once-great Nazi regions, either. All the same, I'm sure he wasn't aware of who he was talking to or about.

[RiderSyl]

Ignorance is a reason, but not an excuse.

[Sedgistan]

You're right, Osiris is much less toxic inside. But why is that? It's because all the "toxic elements" (read: dissenters) were removed by you. All that's left is people who are okay living under Cormactopia. You've attracted more people? Great. More people comfortable without rights. I, and the likeminded people who ditched your childish and immature tyranny stemming from the most pathetically sore loser I've seen in NS, will continue to keep our own communities active and democratic.

You've gone too far there with the attacks on Cormac, Ikania. *** Warned for flaming. *** You shouldn't need to throw in insults like that to get your point across.

[Revall]

Honestly have no idea how anyone could think The Legion would in any way shape or form promote the fash.

[Ikania]

You're right, Osiris is much less toxic inside. But why is that? It's because all the "toxic elements" (read: dissenters) were removed by you. All that's left is people who are okay living under Cormactopia. You've attracted more people? Great. More people comfortable without rights. I, and the likeminded people who ditched your childish and immature tyranny stemming from the most pathetically sore loser I've seen in NS, will continue to keep our own communities active and democratic.

You've gone too far there with the attacks on Cormac, Ikania. *** Warned for flaming. *** You shouldn't need to throw in insults like that to get your point across.

The point stands regardless. Flaming or not, Cormac's inability to get over losing an election is one of the prime causes of Osiris now being a dictatorship.

[Caelapes]

Oh! Silly me, sitting here thinking that a flag designed after the Nazi German flag and sporting a literal fasces was a fascist flag. How ignorant that I did not realize it was an anarcho-fascist flag.

Anarcho-fascism is perhaps the stupidest completely made up ideology I've ever heard of.

edit: The fact that Osiris is comfortable with appointing an "Anarcho-" Fascist as their Vizier of War makes me really question the early promise that Osiris was interested in focusing on antifascist operations. It certainly makes the current embassies with The Internationale and our former refuge region The Red and Black incompatible.

How it could have escaped your notice that this was a joke pre-title and flag, I'm really not sure.

I think you may be right about the incompatibility of those embassies though. Osiris doesn't respond well to kneejerk threats made based on assumptions you should have known better than to make. Did you really think I would allow the appointment of a fascist to anything? I guess more than four years of solid commitment to anti-fascist operations doesn't gain one much respect or trust on the NationStates left.

The embassy with The Internationale is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.
The embassy with North Korea is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.
The embassy with The Red and Black is being withdrawn. Closure expected in 3 days 7 hours.

You got your wish. The Red Fleet and Korean People's Army can look elsewhere next time you're looking for GCR support for your operations. Obviously it doesn't pay to work closely with you for years; we're all just "the fash" if we're not obsessed with this 24/7.

1. There was nothing, at all, to imply that the flag/pretitle was a joke. If "Anarcho-Fascism" is understood in Osiran circles to be an NS joke, that hasn't made its way out to us.
2. Look at the sequence of events. You got TRF/KPA support against AJW on the promise of aligning the Sekhmet as an antifascist raider military. You announce that, drumroll, Osiris is aligning as a raider military. Then we see that your Vizier of War is flying a fash flag—again giving no indication that it's a joke to people who are not familiar with this obscure "anarcho-fascist" injoke—and that makes us start asking questions.

I have never interacted with Fedele. I don't know him from any other Gameplayer. But when you promise an antifascist focus and instead combine an "Anarcho-Fascist" War Vizier with a standard raider alignment, it makes it much easier for us to draw certain unfavorable conclusions.

I'm happy to learn that Fedele isn't a fash, but I'm disappointed in the Osiran response.

[Cormactopia II]

1. There was nothing, at all, to imply that the flag/pretitle was a joke. If "Anarcho-Fascism" is understood in Osiran circles to be an NS joke, that hasn't made its way out to us.

The something to imply that it was a joke was my years of commitment to anti-fascism in NationStates, not even to mention Scardino's (Fedele's). The idea that I would appoint a fascist to anything is absolutely ludicrous, and that you would think I would appoint a fascist to the government of Osiris is, frankly, offensive. You, of all people, should know better.

2. Look at the sequence of events. You got TRF/KPA support against AJW on the promise of aligning the Sekhmet as an antifascist raider military. You announce that, drumroll, Osiris is aligning as a raider military. Then we see that your Vizier of War is flying a fash flag—again giving no indication that it's a joke to people who are not familiar with this obscure "anarcho-fascist" injoke—and that makes us start asking questions.

But you didn't ask questions. You could have shot me a telegram, or a query, or a Skype message, and I would have told you it was a joke. Instead, you took to our Gameplay embassy and issued a not-so-subtle ultimatum regarding Osiris' embassy with The Internationale. North Korea didn't even bother with the ultimatum and just initiated closure of the embassy, outright stating that I had appointed a fascist to the government of Osiris (a lie that is still being repeated on North Korea's RMB).

In regard to my promise to make the Sekhmet Legion an anti-fascist raider military in April, that promise was made exclusively to The Red Fleet in exchange for support, and then you decided not to support Osiris because of pressure from The North Pacific and fear that you would lose their support on future operations. I did not make a similar promise to the Korean People's Army, which supported Osiris because of my personal anti-fascism and because Godless Munky enjoyed irritating The North Pacific. I've taken other steps related to Osiris' regional tags, and even asking regions we have embassies with to change their tags, to build a relationship with The Internationale, so let's not pretend I've somehow treated your regions badly before you decided to march in here with ultimatums today. You already know all of this, because you were there, so why you're misrepresenting the situation now is beyond me.

Regardless, the fact we adopted a raider alignment didn't mean we would no longer be participating in or leading anti-fascist operations. Believe it or not, you can still raid fascist regions without having an exclusively anti-fascist focus.

I have never interacted with Fedele. I don't know him from any other Gameplayer. But when you promise an antifascist focus and instead combine an "Anarcho-Fascist" War Vizier with a standard raider alignment, it makes it much easier for us to draw certain unfavorable conclusions.

I'm happy to learn that Fedele isn't a fash, but I'm disappointed in the Osiran response.

You jumped straight to the conclusion that I, of all people, would appoint a fascist to the Osiran government, made that accusation in public, and issued a public ultimatum. North Korea abruptly initiated the closure of its embassy altogether. Neither bothered to say "hey, what's up with this?" It is hardly the Osiran response that should be a cause of disappointment for you.

[Caelapes]

1. There was nothing, at all, to imply that the flag/pretitle was a joke. If "Anarcho-Fascism" is understood in Osiran circles to be an NS joke, that hasn't made its way out to us.

The something to imply that it was a joke was my years of commitment to anti-fascism in NationStates, not even to mention Scardino's (Fedele's). The idea that I would appoint a fascist to anything is absolutely ludicrous, and that you would think I would appoint a fascist to the government of Osiris is, frankly, offensive. You, of all people, should know better.

I thought it was ludicrous. That's why I asked why he was flying a fascist flag. The response I got was not "Oh, it's a joke flag for a ridiculous ideology." The response read as being quite genuine, particularly because I have heard of anarcho-fascism before outside NationStates.

2. Look at the sequence of events. You got TRF/KPA support against AJW on the promise of aligning the Sekhmet as an antifascist raider military. You announce that, drumroll, Osiris is aligning as a raider military. Then we see that your Vizier of War is flying a fash flag—again giving no indication that it's a joke to people who are not familiar with this obscure "anarcho-fascist" injoke—and that makes us start asking questions.

But you didn't ask questions.

Except for the part where I did. In this thread. And your Vizier answered without a hint at it being satire.

In regard to my promise to make the Sekhmet Legion an anti-fascist raider military in April, that promise was made exclusively to The Red Fleet in exchange for support, and then you decided not to support Osiris because of pressure from The North Pacific and fear that you would lose their support on future operations. I did not make a similar promise to the Korean People's Army, which supported Osiris because of my personal anti-fascism and because Godless Munky enjoyed irritating The North Pacific. I've taken other steps related to Osiris' regional tags, and even asking regions we have embassies with to change their tags, to build a relationship with The Internationale, so let's not pretend I've somehow treated your regions badly before you decided to march in here with ultimatums today. You already know all of this, because you were there, so why you're misrepresenting the situation now is beyond me.

Maybe I am misremembering, but I don't recall the promise being rescinded after we backed out.

And if this is what qualifies as "marching in with ultimatums," I'd hate to see what you'd call it if we had actually done so.

[Biyah]

I can confirm that he has been using that flag and pseudo-ideology from at least 2006. None of us like facism, none of us are nazis - but we will make use of irony for insulting nazis.

Time to calm down now.

[Cormactopia II]

Just a heads up that Osiris has finally stepped into 2016 and created its own Discord chat server, which can be found here.

Unlike our Skype chat, the main chat on our Discord server is open to the general public, so we hope you'll stop by and chat!

[Adytus]

Awesome!

[Olevsky]

No voice chat though!