Military Gameplay and Game Mechanics - A Primer

[Erastide]

How about this then, how about you may click native status only if you have a nation size of 600 million - 1 billion?

I'm assuming those are only the lower limits and not upper?

And yeah, I'm not overly fond of having to decide whether I support one region vs. another. If Lemuria's in danger of being invaded because Thel forgets to login, should I be there? But if TNP is being taken over by someone should I stay there? Should Elu be a native of Taijitu or TNP or Lemuria? *shrugs* I can just see regions tying citizenship to native status, would be pretty annoying.

[Naivetry]

I can see that too. But regions currently tie citizenship status to WA status, while leaving room for exceptional cases; this would be no different in that respect.

Granted that the choice between two regions would not be a fun one to make in case of simultaneous emergencies, for the majority of players that would never be an issue. With this mechanic, at least one of your nations would be granted absolute protection, which is more than can be said for Influence.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

I am not a fan of the Nativity tag.

Influence does a reasonable job of marking people as somewhat Native-- the problem I have with Influence isn't its nature, but that its implementation removed Griefing rules without counteracting the way in which such rule changes benefit a not entirely native Delegate's ability to hold on to power.

[Bears Armed]

I can see that too. But regions currently tie citizenship status to WA status, while leaving room for exceptional cases; this would be no different in that respect.

You forgot the "some" before "regions"...

[Naivetry]

I can see that too. But regions currently tie citizenship status to WA status, while leaving room for exceptional cases; this would be no different in that respect.

You forgot the "some" before "regions"...

No; you need not conclude that an unmodified noun is generalizing rather than indefinite.

I found it unnecessary to specify, since I and everyone else in Gameplay take for granted the diversity of internal regional politics on an issue as important as citizenship.

I am not a fan of the Nativity tag.

Influence does a reasonable job of marking people as somewhat Native-- the problem I have with Influence isn't its nature, but that its implementation removed Griefing rules without counteracting the way in which such rule changes benefit a not entirely native Delegate's ability to hold on to power.

Granted it is less than ideal; still, it would provide more dependable and permanent protection for the majority of players.

[[violet]]

in order for it to work, it would have to be a one-per-player thing, just like the WA (but independent of WA membership).

We have no practical way of enforcing game-wide "one per human being" rules. We just barely manage it for the WA, and even within that limited scope it's the source of much angst.

[Juken]

It would be real a pain if the invader delegate kept taking the link to any offsite forum that the region has out of the WFE, at the same time that invaders were filling the RMB with their posts: How else are the natives supposed to advertise that site?

Well for one, it would be better than having alkl the natives banjected. Also, the natives could TG people in their region to join the forums, that's waht most regions do, or concentrate on trying to fight off the invason. Another benefit of the WFE thing would be the fact that, as the invaders can't do anything to them, they will be able to wait until the defenders can muster enough tropps to eject the invaders, eliminating the problem Violet was talking about a few pages back, about defneders being unable to help every region.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

It would be real a pain if the invader delegate kept taking the link to any offsite forum that the region has out of the WFE, at the same time that invaders were filling the RMB with their posts: How else are the natives supposed to advertise that site?

Well for one, it would be better than having alkl the natives banjected. Also, the natives could TG people in their region to join the forums, that's waht most regions do, or concentrate on trying to fight off the invason. Another benefit of the WFE thing would be the fact that, as the invaders can't do anything to them, they will be able to wait until the defenders can muster enough tropps to eject the invaders, eliminating the problem Violet was talking about a few pages back, about defneders being unable to help every region.

I think though that this may still greatly reduce the excitement of Gameplay. I worry that this could have devastating consequences.

[Juken]

I don't think so. Firstly, the only people whom I can see will lose out by this are region crashers, who deliberately destory a region for their own pleasure. Frankly, they are no loss to anyone. Secondly, if managed correctly, it could be used to help reghions change the WFE of founded regions, adding a new dimension to interegional politics, as it would become a prestige thing to make sure that your WFE was not taken. I think ti would help gameplay a lot and minimize it's disadvantages.

[Numero Capitan]

AWP was founded by two brothers after one of them found Nationstates, if it was tied to a similar system to the WA then one of our founders would not be considered native as they use the same network

[Azlyn]

I've seen alot of people saying that raiders should only be able to change the WFE, it comes up in several topics.
That would end the raider-defender game and personally I think that would seriously harm the game.Just want to say that.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

I've seen alot of people saying that raiders should only be able to change the WFE, it comes up in several topics.
That would end the raider-defender game and personally I think that would seriously harm the game.Just want to say that.

I am also worried by the possible negative consequences of such a change.

[Neasmyrna]

and again... that would require a definition of invasion. Something that's not going to happen really.

[Juken]

Well, I don't think that this idea would kill off invading and defending, quite the opposite in fact. For one, it would allow the defenders more of a chance agaisnt groups such as Macedon, which basically come in, seize power and banject all the naives from the cover of a regional password. From what I have heard, changing the WFE was what raiders did anyway in the old days, when the raiding/defending game was at it's best, and raiding and defending is dying out at the moment, as people like Macedon can just wlak in and win, causing a collapse in defender morale and strength. This change can also revitalise the interegional politcs area, which has been suffering of lastre as there is nothing founded regions, the majority, can actually do to each other, leading to an end for the need of any real international cooperation in military terms. If your enemies can take your WFE and change it to show their mastery, then you have an incentive to guard agaisnt this and take down them, greatly increasing the desire for alliances. In my opinion, this system allows those interested in the military aspect of the game do what they like without causing much harm to everyone else.

[Mayor For Life]

We have no practical way of enforcing game-wide "one per human being" rules. We just barely manage it for the WA, and even within that limited scope it's the source of much angst.

Perhaps we might rethink how we define player. The use of WA to define who is "real" and who is a puppet has to be a hassle and given the number of WA nations that don't vote, it's appears to function more as the primary gateway to raiding and defending.

I don't have time or energy or interest in multying. But perhaps someone with my resources could give it a pretty good go. At my peril of course, but there are three computers in my office on two different networks using switches and a hardware firewall with multiple operating systems and browsers. And an overpriced iPhone.


It's possibly terribly non-trivial, but there are some authentication methods out there that would make a set up like mine a lot less of a threat.

[Cannibal Hog Monkeys]

Perhaps we might rethink how we define player. The use of WA to define who is "real" and who is a puppet has to be a hassle and given the number of WA nations that don't vote, it's appears to function more as the primary gateway to raiding and defending.

Not appears to: is. I crank out recruiting telegrams fairly regularly and in my two attempts today roughly 50% of new nations I looked at had a motto like "kill them all" or "bash them in the head" or "take all their stuff" or the equivalent in Latin with the same group of flags. Before the day is out they are at the WA signing up. Just prior to similarly identifiable nations leaving the WA.

This varies from one third to almost 100% at times - I just visited a feeder where there wasn't a single new nation I would bother to TG. Keep in mind these are nations that are obvious about why they are founded and doesn't include any clever nations who even bother to conceal it.

So when they post that we need to "shake things up" or we'll have stagnation and "there are almost no raiders left" it cracks me up because it's at least half of the traffic I see at the WA every day. They're busy as bees and appear to have plenty to do. If the complaint is that NS rules as they stand make raiding no fun, then why are they working so incredibly hard at not having any fun?

[Naivetry]

Updated with the new update times and structure.

[Numero Capitan]

Just want to say thanks to Nai for doing this

[Letoilenoir]

There is a fundamental split in NationStates that is, in my view, unresolvable.

1. Raiders / Defenders want to interact with non-raiders / non-defenders. The OP makes that point clearly. The reward for raiding is doing it to players that don't want it. The reward for defenders is to protect the victims.

2. Non-raiders / non-defenders do not want to interact with Raiders / Defenders. Period. They want to be left alone.

Sorry if this is opening old wounds but:

If you don't wish to be invaded/defended then get your founder to password protect your little corner of NS and/or disable delegate control.

If you founder ceases to exist, then refound the region under the same structure.

A raider will see no possibility to seize control of your real estate and a defender has one less region to worry about.

If you still want to attract people to your own private utopia then just get them to request the password - your own vetting policies can decide whether you admit them.

Raiders-Trophy regions-are they really worth your time?

Even if you do manage to seize "America" and grafitti the place, its relatively easy for "USA" or "United States of America" or "New USA" or the "Immortal United States of America" or "The Free States of United America" or any other permutations to be founded.

Defending for the sake of defending, or raiding for the sake of raiding are both ultimately futile (sorry TitO & LWU).

Winning hearts and minds to a particular outlook however, with the polarisation that engenders, can lead to political engagement that is surely the fundamental raison d'etre (well apart from selling a book) that underlies NS and all the peripheral activity that it has generated?

[Sedgistan]

If you want that debate, I'd recommend a new thread for it - if you want your comment split off, let me know.

For the record, there's an updated version of this guide here. Any further discussion of the guide should go there.

[The World Of Free]

how do i raid?

[Severisen]

Well, this is quite the gravedig!

Regardless, it seems you've at least found the right forum and a relavant thread, so +2 there. You're off to a better start than many who came before you.

There are some well-established raiding regions you could join, and they will train you and let you know everything you need to know about raiding. The one I'm a member of is The Black Hawks. You could also check out The Black Riders, Unknown, The New Inquisition, Kantrias, or even Europeia, though they are more independent than specifically raider.

Let me know if you need more assistance.