Illegal Script Usage "Predator": Punishments

[Gest II]

I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.

Texasa has been unclear at times, but he hasn't changed his story. Out of nowhere, he said that he used Predator, so Ovybia immediately suggested that he turn himself in. Texasa confessed to the moderators, and the moderators banned him. Upon further questioning, Texasa clarified that his use of Predator was having it on his computer. (Somebody shared the tool with him privately, and he downloaded it.) He's said that he never ran the program, at least not intentionally, and that he later deleted it. (Several players have made clear that he couldn't have run the program even if he had it.) He's also said -- and others have confirmed -- that his only R/D activity has been piling.

Like it or not, this story is consistent and largely corroborated.

The story is airtight except for him not initially knowing what Predator did*. If you want to believe the almost certain fabulation that someone gave him Predator but he no longer has it because he deleted it, well that's your prerogative.

*"I am Used to their Tool Known as Predator, In which produces multiple puppets at once, 1 of which is a WA puppet."

The idea that Right to Life forced anyone to confess to anything has been thoroughly debunked, so quit perpetuating this falsehood, Tim.

No one forced him but actually analyzing what he wrote before telling him to go confess would have been a good idea at the time.

[Reploid Productions]

Any updates on that whole "people trying to help him write a legible appeal" bit?

[Evil Wolf]

Any updates on that whole "people trying to help him write a legible appeal" bit?

I find this statement to be more than a little strange.

It sorta seems to imply that at least a few of the Mods believe a mistake could have been made, but need a well written appeal to be submitted before anything further happens.

Just speculation on my part.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Any updates on that whole "people trying to help him write a legible appeal" bit?

I find this statement to be more than a little strange.

It sorta seems to imply that at least a few of the Mods believe a mistake could have been made, but need a well written appeal to be submitted before anything further happens.

Just speculation on my part.

All we have to work with right now is a series of conflicting reports and nothing official from the user. We need a papertrail.

[Luziyca]

I find this statement to be more than a little strange.

It sorta seems to imply that at least a few of the Mods believe a mistake could have been made, but need a well written appeal to be submitted before anything further happens.

Just speculation on my part.

All we have to work with right now is a series of conflicting reports and nothing official from the user. We need a papertrail.

Let's just let this matter die. If the appeal materializes, it materializes. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

[Stellonia]

Any updates on that whole "people trying to help him write a legible appeal" bit?

Ovybia, a citizen of Right to Life, is working on an appeal. If anyone wants detailed updates on this matter, they would greatly benefit from checking the RMB of Right to Life and RTL's offsite forums on a regular basis.

[Syberis]

Any updates on that whole "people trying to help him write a legible appeal" bit?

Ovybia, a citizen of Right to Life, is working on an appeal. If anyone wants detailed updates on this matter, they would greatly benefit from checking the RMB of Right to Life and RTL's offsite forums on a regular basis.

Considering how much RTL is covering their own butts and trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility, perhaps making things a bit more public would be a smart move. Or, at the very least, they really should cut the snark and act the least bit ashamed with themselves for not doing their own homework the first time around and getting caught up in this mess at all.

[Stellonia]

Ovybia, a citizen of Right to Life, is working on an appeal. If anyone wants detailed updates on this matter, they would greatly benefit from checking the RMB of Right to Life and RTL's offsite forums on a regular basis.

Considering how much RTL is covering their own butts and trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility, perhaps making things a bit more public would be a smart move. Or, at the very least, they really should cut the snark and act the least bit ashamed with themselves for not doing their own homework the first time around and getting caught up in this mess at all.

How are we responsible for this?

[Ovybia]

Ovybia, a citizen of Right to Life, is working on an appeal. If anyone wants detailed updates on this matter, they would greatly benefit from checking the RMB of Right to Life and RTL's offsite forums on a regular basis.

Considering how much RTL is covering their own butts and trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility, perhaps making things a bit more public would be a smart move. Or, at the very least, they really should cut the snark and act the least bit ashamed with themselves for not doing their own homework the first time around and getting caught up in this mess at all.

Ignoring your factless accusations which CD has already addressed countless times, I will be posting the final appeal here when it is ready for submission. As of now, it's still in the drafting phase and there is no reason to post it.

Stellonia, please wait until we've completed this before making more posts on it.

[Guy]

Ovybia, a citizen of Right to Life, is working on an appeal. If anyone wants detailed updates on this matter, they would greatly benefit from checking the RMB of Right to Life and RTL's offsite forums on a regular basis.

Considering how much RTL is covering their own butts and trying to absolve themselves of any responsibility, perhaps making things a bit more public would be a smart move. Or, at the very least, they really should cut the snark and act the least bit ashamed with themselves for not doing their own homework the first time around and getting caught up in this mess at all.

As much as I don't think it's likely that Texasa ever had access to Predator, the fault here really doesn't rest at all with RTL. From what I understood, Texasa stated he's used Predator without any prompting or even questions on the matter from anyone in RTL. A RTL citizen, probably not as familiar with Predator as most of us in this thread and thus not aware how unlikely it is that Texasa had access, recommended admitting to the use so that he can get a lighter punishment.

[Christian Democrats]

From what I understood, Texasa stated he's used Predator without any prompting or even questions on the matter from anyone in RTL. A RTL citizen, probably not as familiar with Predator as most of us in this thread and thus not aware how unlikely it is that Texasa had access, recommended admitting to the use so that he can get a lighter punishment.

Yes, that's correct.

[Zaolat]

All we have to work with right now is a series of conflicting reports and nothing official from the user. We need a papertrail.

Let's just let this matter die. If the appeal materializes, it materializes. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

Why? How about no. It's clear he broke no rules and thus shouldn't be punished. He didn't use predator, he admitted that and it wouldn't be possible anyways. Why don't You let the matter die and move on instead of asking everyone else to.

It's simple, he isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished.

[Luziyca]

Let's just let this matter die. If the appeal materializes, it materializes. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

Why? How about no. It's clear he broke no rules and thus shouldn't be punished. He didn't use predator, he admitted that and it wouldn't be possible anyways. Why don't You let the matter die and move on instead of asking everyone else to.

It's simple, he isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished.

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

[Sad-States]

I wouldn't see Cora sending a telegram containing Predator to this lad since Cora mainly operated only in Skype from what I seen in the past, which Tex never listed his Skype as stated by Gest IIRC when he joined DEN.

[Floor 448]

Why? How about no. It's clear he broke no rules and thus shouldn't be punished. He didn't use predator, he admitted that and it wouldn't be possible anyways. Why don't You let the matter die and move on instead of asking everyone else to.

It's simple, he isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished.

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

Simple. The fact that with the rest of those punished, there was actually evidence that they were using Predator other than a poorly written confession made out of confusion.

[Luziyca]

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

Simple. The fact that with the rest of those punished, there was actually evidence that they were using Predator other than a poorly written confession made out of confusion.

And how do you know it wasn't due to some poorly-written confession? Do all of those fellas appear on the user logs?

[Zacherie]

And how do you know it wasn't due to some poorly-written confession? Do all of those fellas appear on the user logs?

Are you for real? I said it before I'll say it again. Do you REALLY believe that anyone on the original punishment list will get part of their punishment rescinded? The only reason that anyone is defending Texasa is because he is CLEARLY innocent.
Everyone else on that list was in some form of leadership in TBR/Cimmeria and actually accessed predator, so there's absolutely no way anyone there could even try claim that they never used it.

[Zaolat]

Why? How about no. It's clear he broke no rules and thus shouldn't be punished. He didn't use predator, he admitted that and it wouldn't be possible anyways. Why don't You let the matter die and move on instead of asking everyone else to.

It's simple, he isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished.

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

That's not going to happen.

[Drasnia]

Why? How about no. It's clear he broke no rules and thus shouldn't be punished. He didn't use predator, he admitted that and it wouldn't be possible anyways. Why don't You let the matter die and move on instead of asking everyone else to.

It's simple, he isn't guilty and shouldn't be punished.

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

Pretty much all those who were punished for Predator have owned up to using it and all have accepted their punishment. So no, they aren't going to claim to be 'railroaded.' So many people (and many Predator users) are protesting Texasa's punishment because they know how hard it is to be deleted and/or WA banned and don't want that to be done to an innocent.

[The Dourian Embassy]

How are we responsible for this?

This guy was obviously a little unclear on what predator even does. Now, to be fair, perhaps you folk didn't know either? But then you all should've educated yourself on the issue before sending the kid off to the mods to get themselves banned.

Someone in the region is working on the appeal with him, yeah? Poke at any one of the people in this thread who seem to know what they're talking about, and get yourself educated on the thing. And hell, get photographic evidence off them as well. They seem plenty willing to provide it. Then you can put this mistake to rest.

[Ovybia]

How are we responsible for this?

This guy was obviously a little unclear on what predator even does. Now, to be fair, perhaps you folk didn't know either? But then you all should've educated yourself on the issue before sending the kid off to the mods to get themselves banned.

Someone in the region is working on the appeal with him, yeah? Poke at any one of the people in this thread who seem to know what they're talking about, and get yourself educated on the thing. And hell, get photographic evidence off them as well. They seem plenty willing to provide it. Then you can put this mistake to rest.

I really wish these insinuations would end. We are doing everything we can to help Texasa. And I will say that I'm glad I asked Texasa to turn himself in when I did. If someone else had seen those posts and reported him to the mods, it's highly unlikely that the mods would be willing to listen to his side of the story.

[Luziyca]

If this punishment gets repealed, then how long will it take until those people on that list claim that they were railroaded?

Even if it is unlikely to happen, it's better to not even let them have some sort of precedent on here.

Pretty much all those who were punished for Predator have owned up to using it and all have accepted their punishment. So no, they aren't going to claim to be 'railroaded.' So many people (and many Predator users) are protesting Texasa's punishment because they know how hard it is to be deleted and/or WA banned and don't want that to be done to an innocent.

How would you know that they won't do that? Are you some kind of mind-reader?

It's better to prevent the possibility, no matter how remote.

This guy was obviously a little unclear on what predator even does. Now, to be fair, perhaps you folk didn't know either? But then you all should've educated yourself on the issue before sending the kid off to the mods to get themselves banned.

Someone in the region is working on the appeal with him, yeah? Poke at any one of the people in this thread who seem to know what they're talking about, and get yourself educated on the thing. And hell, get photographic evidence off them as well. They seem plenty willing to provide it. Then you can put this mistake to rest.

I really wish these insinuations would end. We are doing everything we can to help Texasa. And I will say that I'm glad I asked Texasa to turn himself in when I did. If someone else had seen those posts and reported him to the mods, it's highly unlikely that the mods would be willing to listen to his side of the story.

I'm sure that if you really cared about him, Ovy, you would've gotten that appeal done by now, and Tex would've submitted it.

[Tano]

Pretty much all those who were punished for Predator have owned up to using it and all have accepted their punishment. So no, they aren't going to claim to be 'railroaded.' So many people (and many Predator users) are protesting Texasa's punishment because they know how hard it is to be deleted and/or WA banned and don't want that to be done to an innocent.

How would you know that they won't do that? Are you some kind of mind-reader?

It's better to prevent the possibility, no matter how remote.

What? No, no no no. That's some fucked up logic right there.

The mods are not idiots. They are not going to make this case the benchmark for all other cases. They are not going to suddenly accept a large number of appeals because some guy who doesn't' even seem to understand what Predator is confessed to using it. He made TWO posts on the DEN (iirc it was DEN) forums. There's a large difference between that and one of the career raiders that got hit by the mods for this.

[Drasnia]

Pretty much all those who were punished for Predator have owned up to using it and all have accepted their punishment. So no, they aren't going to claim to be 'railroaded.' So many people (and many Predator users) are protesting Texasa's punishment because they know how hard it is to be deleted and/or WA banned and don't want that to be done to an innocent.

How would you know that they won't do that? Are you some kind of mind-reader?

Um, no . . . I've talked extensively to a person or two who were punished for Predator as well as actually have read this thread. If you could tone down the snark that would be great. I live by the principle of innocent until proven guilty (not the inverse).

I've seen nothing that would suggest Texasa is guilty of using it - even the the admission of guilt. If the person can't actually identify what they are confessing to, the confession is not very plausible.

[Luziyca]

How would you know that they won't do that? Are you some kind of mind-reader?

It's better to prevent the possibility, no matter how remote.

What? No, no no no. That's some fucked up logic right there.

The mods are not idiots. They are not going to make this case the benchmark for all other cases. They are not going to suddenly accept a large number of appeals because some guy who doesn't' even seem to understand what Predator is confessed to using it. He made TWO posts on the DEN (iirc it was DEN) forums. There's a large difference between that and one of the career raiders that got hit by the mods for this.

Eh. Considering how even the higher-ups of RTL are suspicious of Tex's story, I probably wouldn't want to run the chance until enough evidence emerges that can conclusively confirm that Tex has never used Predator.

Until then, I will support Tex's current punishment.

How would you know that they won't do that? Are you some kind of mind-reader?

Um, no . . . I've talked extensively to a person or two who were punished for Predator as well as actually have read this thread. If you could tone down the snark that would be great. I live by the principle of innocent until proven guilty (not the inverse).

I've seen nothing that would suggest Texasa is guilty of using it - even the the admission of guilt. If the person can't actually identify what they are confessing to, the confession is not very plausible.

I support the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" for real-world laws. However, NS is not real life. Since we are on NS, we're subject to the rules of the site, and considering that Tex has already been punished for using Predator, it's safe to assume he is guilty.