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Illegal Script Usage "Predator": Punishments

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Christian Democrats
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Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:46 am

Zacherie wrote:
Drasnia wrote:Yuno is saying that Predator was a closely guarded secret. A person who piled a couple times, was never on chat, etc. should never have gotten access to the files. Thus either it's not true that he actually had the files to Predator or there was a breach in Predator's security that should never have happened.


Christian Democrats wrote:Texasa got confused because he had the NS++ browser extension and Predator on his computer, not knowing what they were for. There was a breach in Predator's security, or the script was more widely distributed than DEN has acknowledged.

Predator wasn't a closely guarded secret, but the files were kept within TBR, and the same likely applied to DEN.
Additionally, he would have had to get cleared by Halcones, and assuming that practices did not change, you had to be at least a lieutenant to gain access.
Even if he got the files, he wouldn't have been able to use it anyway. He'd just get a box telling him he's not a registered user.

Is Predator not an executable file (exe)? Could someone not have downloaded it and put it somewhere else on the internet?

I know that I've shared .exe files via telegram and forum PM.

Gest II wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:It depends on what you mean by "using" Predator. In Right to Life, we've talked with Texasa. Somebody in DEN privately gave Texasa access to Predator or leaked the illegal script to him, but Texasa didn't know what it was for or how to operate it.

This is impossible as he didn't talk to anyone in the region. He didn't have Skype and he didn't raid. He just made two posts on the forum and then vanished. If you keep interrogating this guy he's going to confess to being at the grassy knoll.

Texasa isn't an idiot, and Sedge says that he "confirmed the details" of Texasa's alleged use. I assume this means that Texasa inadvertently accessed NS's servers with Predator and that the admins confirmed this on an IP check.
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Zacherie
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Postby Zacherie » Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:48 am

Christian Democrats wrote:Is Predator not an executable file (exe)? Could someone not have downloaded it and put it somewhere else on the internet?

I know that I've shared .exe files via telegram and forum PM.


I had a screenshot of all the files at some point, however the leak-protection it had was built in. Even if you had all the files and installed it, if you were not registered it would not let you use the program.

Edit: Found them
Image
Image

What it looks like when you're not registered
Image


I find it very unlikely that someone who never talked with anyone on skype, and never interacted with the high command, or even halcones, would have gotten access.
Last edited by Zacherie on Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Gest II
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Postby Gest II » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:01 am

Christian Democrats wrote:Texasa isn't an idiot, and Sedge says that he "confirmed the details" of Texasa's alleged use. I assume this means that Texasa inadvertently accessed NS's servers with Predator and that the admins confirmed this on an IP check.


I'm going to bet that if they had done an IP check they would have said that. By confirm the details I'll bet they just asked him "Did you use Predator", he said yes and that was case closed.

This guy's story gets worse and worse every time you guys interrogate him. It's clear from his first post, where he falsely called himself a DEN officer, on your forum that he didn't know what Predator is and if NS++ hadn't been mentioned I doubt he'd know what that is. Now you have him saying that someone leaked him Predator when he was a random nobody in the region. This is reaching kafkaesque levels of absurd. Soon he'll have co-developed it with Halcones.

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Postby Christian Democrats » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:04 am

Zacherie wrote:Predator was multiplatform and I had a screenshot of all the files at some point, however the leak-protection it had was built in. Even if you had all the files and installed it, if you were not registered it would not let you use the program.

That actually helps for Texasa's appeal. He says that he eventually trashed Predator because it seemed to him to be useless.

Zacherie wrote:I find it very unlikely that someone who never talked with anyone on skype, and never interacted with the high command, or even halcones, would have gotten access.

Texasa has insisted several times in several places that somebody shared Predator with him and that he had it on his computer. The full extent of his R/D experience, however, is only piling.
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Gest II
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Postby Gest II » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:08 am

Christian Democrats wrote:
Zacherie wrote:Predator was multiplatform and I had a screenshot of all the files at some point, however the leak-protection it had was built in. Even if you had all the files and installed it, if you were not registered it would not let you use the program.

That actually helps for Texasa's appeal. He says that he eventually trashed Predator because it seemed to him to be useless.

Zacherie wrote:I find it very unlikely that someone who never talked with anyone on skype, and never interacted with the high command, or even halcones, would have gotten access.

Texasa has insisted several times in several places that somebody shared Predator with him and that he had it on his computer. The full extent of his R/D experience, however, is only piling.


Texasa: I drove into a deserted parking lot and there Deep Throat, whose face was obscured by shadows, gave me Predator but I got rid of it, so there's no way to verify my very plausible story.

I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.
His only post in this thread so far has been: "Texasa Is innocent, His Puppet Boscovs Was the menace behind this."

Does that sound like a guy that was going to be given Predator? Does that sound like an intel agent who would be given files?
Last edited by Gest II on Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:23 am

Gest II wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:That actually helps for Texasa's appeal. He says that he eventually trashed Predator because it seemed to him to be useless.


Texasa has insisted several times in several places that somebody shared Predator with him and that he had it on his computer. The full extent of his R/D experience, however, is only piling.


Texasa: I drove into a deserted parking lot and there Deep Throat, whose face was obscured by shadows, gave me Predator but I got rid of it, so there's no way to verify my very plausible story.

I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.
His only post in this thread so far has been: "Texasa Is innocent, His Puppet Boscovs Was the menace behind this."

Does that sound like a guy that was going to be given Predator? Does that sound like an intel agent who would be given files?


Tbf, Cora also had access. And they could be... vaguely incoherent at times.
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Zacherie
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Postby Zacherie » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:29 am

G-Tech Corporation wrote:Tbf, Cora also had access. And they could be... vaguely incoherent at times.


Whether he had the files is irrelevant. I considered that cora could have given him the files, but it doesn't matter if he had them or not. The fact that he could not use the program, however, does matter.
Cora leaked a copy to Frak, who couldn't break into it's leakproofing, so unless Texasa has a degree in software engineering and security, I doubt he managed to.
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Postby Gest II » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:32 am

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Gest II wrote:
Texasa: I drove into a deserted parking lot and there Deep Throat, whose face was obscured by shadows, gave me Predator but I got rid of it, so there's no way to verify my very plausible story.

I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.
His only post in this thread so far has been: "Texasa Is innocent, His Puppet Boscovs Was the menace behind this."

Does that sound like a guy that was going to be given Predator? Does that sound like an intel agent who would be given files?


Tbf, Cora also had access. And they could be... vaguely incoherent at times.


Cora was an accomplished raider with years of raiding and other gameplay experience, Texasa is a complete unknown. Yeah, Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable. I have no way to confirm but I would bet Texasa's problem isn't that English is a second language for him, it's that he's young.

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Postby Guy » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:42 am

Gest II wrote:
Christian Democrats wrote:That actually helps for Texasa's appeal. He says that he eventually trashed Predator because it seemed to him to be useless.


Texasa has insisted several times in several places that somebody shared Predator with him and that he had it on his computer. The full extent of his R/D experience, however, is only piling.


Texasa: I drove into a deserted parking lot and there Deep Throat, whose face was obscured by shadows, gave me Predator but I got rid of it, so there's no way to verify my very plausible story.

I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.
His only post in this thread so far has been: "Texasa Is innocent, His Puppet Boscovs Was the menace behind this."

Does that sound like a guy that was going to be given Predator? Does that sound like an intel agent who would be given files?

It does sound less than plausible.
Last edited by Guy on Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sygian » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:43 am

From what I've heard, Cora has in fact told the mods that Texasa was not granted access to predator. I could be wrong in satin this but I do remember seeing a post on this thread from a puppet Cora created insisting that Texasa did not have access to predator. Still not sure why this is a big deal.

The guy obviously has broken English and mistook himself (or lied) and said he was a DEN officer, which most of us know wasn't true. He could have simply mistaken P for NS++.
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Postby G-Tech Corporation » Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:49 am

Gest II wrote:
G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Tbf, Cora also had access. And they could be... vaguely incoherent at times.


Cora was an accomplished raider with years of raiding and other gameplay experience, Texasa is a complete unknown. Yeah, Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable. I have no way to confirm but I would bet Texasa's problem isn't that English is a second language for him, it's that he's young.


Certainly, I concur Cora had rather more experience- my point that arguing that incoherence makes one exempt from possession remains, however. Perhaps Texasa is young. I've taught English in ESL classes before, though, and his speech (what there is) seems far more indicative of a second language than age. Unless you think a 8-9 year old is frequenting the forums?

Regardless, the trouble with Zach's point, and yours, is that nobody really knows the extent of who had access to Predator due to the way it operates and was shared. I completely agree with both of you that it is -unlikely- that Tex had access, being new and comparatively unintegrated in any org. But, given the folks that have come forward to say they had access have in some cases been similarly unknown, it isn't an impossibility. And given Tex confessed in an amount of detail which the Mods were apparently able to use to confirm his guilt.. to not punish him would be illogical based on the preponderance of evidence. It would require an act of good faith or established record for Moderation to ignore the conclusions of his situation, and that's something that is in rather short supply in regards to this whole fiasco.
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Gest II
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Postby Gest II » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:01 am

G-Tech Corporation wrote:
Gest II wrote:
to not punish him would be illogical based on the preponderance of evidence. It would require an act of good faith or established record for Moderation to ignore the conclusions of his situation, and that's something that is in rather short supply in regards to this whole fiasco.


The preponderance of evidence is his own testimony which has shown to be itself completely unreliable. He has a a predilection to telling untruths. He apparently told Right to Life that he and his brother played NS and that's why they had the same IP on Right to Life's forum. His original confession exonerates him completely because he clearly had no idea what Predator did. If a guy says they shot the widow, you don't turn around and tell him the widow was smothered and let him say "Oh yeah I meant to say I smothered the widow."

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Zacherie
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Postby Zacherie » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:08 am

G-Tech Corporation wrote:he trouble with Zach's point, and yours, is that nobody really knows the extent of who had access to Predator due to the way it operates and was shared.


On the contrary, we actually know pretty well who had access to it, we know exactly how it operated, the same as my program 20XX did, although it polled the site more, and we know exactly how it was shared, it required Halcones to whitelist you to use it. That is why I can say with conviction that it is very unlikely Texasa had access.

Halcones required you to tell him what your dropbox account was to whitelist you, so unless Texasa provided that, which I doubt since he never talked to anyone, I can make a pretty compelling argument about exactly why Texasa didn't ever use predator.
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Postby Tim-Opolis » Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:18 pm

Just to chip in, in case we need some non-Invader backup on this, as somebody who has the Predator user logs, Texasa without question is not on them. While those aren't particularly admissible as evidence to Moderation itself, particularly when coming from a 3rd Party they were leaked to, I think that given the standards of evidence we're using in this between-gameplayers argument, it's pretty easy to conclude that there's no way that Texasa used Predator.

As others have said and pointed out with rather helpful screenshots, even if they had the file downloaded, they would not have been cleared as a user. Halcones was many things, but one of those was rather paranoid, he wouldn't have casually tossed a script like Predator to any noob who came along, another fact corroborated by others in the thread pointing out that only Lieutenant+ people received Predator.

Perhaps the Peanut Gallery can hop off this kid who very evidently isn't guilty, RTL can go back to helping write the appeal to the person they forced a false confession out of, and those of us having to wade in here to defend the poor lad can go back to antagonizing each other in other threads.
Last edited by Tim-Opolis on Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Jun 07, 2016 2:04 am

Gest II wrote:Yeah, Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable.


Image

I have spoken to quite many Finnish people, it's not the fact that one is Finnish that makes one incoherent. The ones I've met are all fairly decent speakers (and I'm not a native either, so the level of coherence has to be relatively high to be understood by me). Cora's incoherence is all Cora's.

Just compare Immoren and Jetan here in NS. Also both native Finns, no big problems there either.
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Postby Guy » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:07 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Gest II wrote:Yeah, Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable.


Image

I have spoken to quite many Finnish people, it's not the fact that one is Finnish that makes one incoherent. The ones I've met are all fairly decent speakers (and I'm not a native either, so the level of coherence has to be relatively high to be understood by me). Cora's incoherence is all Cora's.

Just compare Immoren and Jetan here in NS. Also both native Finns, no big problems there either.

Yeah, this.

Expecting non-native speakers to have incomprehensible English is just as racist as requiring them to be comprehensible.

Blaat, frattastan, CrazyGirl, yours truly (just the first few examples that popped into my head) are non-native speakers. It's fairly demeaning.
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Postby Dark Robes » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:13 am

Guy wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
(Image)

I have spoken to quite many Finnish people, it's not the fact that one is Finnish that makes one incoherent. The ones I've met are all fairly decent speakers (and I'm not a native either, so the level of coherence has to be relatively high to be understood by me). Cora's incoherence is all Cora's.

Just compare Immoren and Jetan here in NS. Also both native Finns, no big problems there either.

Yeah, this.

Expecting non-native speakers to have incomprehensible English is just as racist as requiring them to be comprehensible.

Blaat, frattastan, CrazyGirl, yours truly (just the first few examples that popped into my head) are non-native speakers. It's fairly demeaning.

You are attempting to distract from the fact that it is not possible that Texasa was involved in Predator by accusing people of "racism". Come on, this is NSGP not NSG. Get dat PC out of here! :P

I know little about Predator, I was never a member of DEN and am a mere casual observer, but surely only DEN members of Lieutenant rank and above were permitted to use Predator? Unless somehow Texasa managed to find a copy of this elusive raiding tool, surely he is innocent and there is no way that he could have used Predator?

Just a random thought from an uninvolved observer.
Last edited by Dark Robes on Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Guy » Tue Jun 07, 2016 4:54 am

Dark Robes wrote:
Guy wrote:Yeah, this.

Expecting non-native speakers to have incomprehensible English is just as racist as requiring them to be comprehensible.

Blaat, frattastan, CrazyGirl, yours truly (just the first few examples that popped into my head) are non-native speakers. It's fairly demeaning.

You are attempting to distract from the fact that it is not possible that Texasa was involved in Predator by accusing people of "racism". Come on, this is NSGP not NSG. Get dat PC out of here! :P

I have already stated that I find it highly unlikely that Texasa had at any point access to Predator, much less used it.
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Postby Drasnia » Tue Jun 07, 2016 7:56 am

AND it has also been demonstrated that one had to be whitelisted by Halc. Maybe possibly he got his hands on it, but I can't believe Halc gave him permission.
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Postby Gest II » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:40 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Gest II wrote:Yeah, Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable.


I have spoken to quite many Finnish people, it's not the fact that one is Finnish that makes one incoherent. The ones I've met are all fairly decent speakers (and I'm not a native either, so the level of coherence has to be relatively high to be understood by me). Cora's incoherence is all Cora's.

Just compare Immoren and Jetan here in NS. Also both native Finns, no big problems there either.


The meaning was that we can cut second language learners some slack on their English. So Cora and Texasa ,if he is ESL, should get some slack in their writing. Somehow that was interpreted to mean: those foreign devils and their squiggly languages are incapable of learning Her Majesty's Tongue.

Expecting non-native speakers to have incomprehensible English is just as racist as requiring them to be comprehensible.


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Postby Floor 448 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:18 am

Gest II wrote:Somehow that was interpreted to mean: those foreign devils and their squiggly languages are incapable of learning Her Majesty's Tongue.

:rofl: okay, that's going in my sig.
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Gest II wrote:Somehow that was interpreted to mean: those foreign devils and their squiggly languages are incapable of learning Her Majesty's Tongue.
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Postby Guy » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:34 am

Gest II wrote:
The Blaatschapen wrote:
I have spoken to quite many Finnish people, it's not the fact that one is Finnish that makes one incoherent. The ones I've met are all fairly decent speakers (and I'm not a native either, so the level of coherence has to be relatively high to be understood by me). Cora's incoherence is all Cora's.

Just compare Immoren and Jetan here in NS. Also both native Finns, no big problems there either.


The meaning was that we can cut second language learners some slack on their English. So Cora and Texasa ,if he is ESL, should get some slack in their writing. Somehow that was interpreted to mean: those foreign devils and their squiggly languages are incapable of learning Her Majesty's Tongue.

It certainly didn't come out right. "Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable" makes it sound like Finnish people are typically incomprehensible.
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Postby Mallorea and Riva » Tue Jun 07, 2016 12:55 pm

Guy wrote:
Gest II wrote:
The meaning was that we can cut second language learners some slack on their English. So Cora and Texasa ,if he is ESL, should get some slack in their writing. Somehow that was interpreted to mean: those foreign devils and their squiggly languages are incapable of learning Her Majesty's Tongue.

It certainly didn't come out right. "Cora sounded incoherent at times but the guy was Finnish so mad props for even being vaguely understandable" makes it sound like Finnish people are typically incomprehensible.

Let's get back on topic.
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Postby Christian Democrats » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:32 pm

Gest II wrote:I guess it's good that he's making up stories that exonerate him now but the truth would have been alot easier.

Texasa has been unclear at times, but he hasn't changed his story. Out of nowhere, he said that he used Predator, so Ovybia immediately suggested that he turn himself in. Texasa confessed to the moderators, and the moderators banned him. Upon further questioning, Texasa clarified that his use of Predator was having it on his computer. (Somebody shared the tool with him privately, and he downloaded it.) He's said that he never ran the program, at least not intentionally, and that he later deleted it. (Several players have made clear that he couldn't have run the program even if he had it.) He's also said -- and others have confirmed -- that his only R/D activity has been piling.

Image

Like it or not, this story is consistent and largely corroborated.

Tim-Opolis wrote:Perhaps the Peanut Gallery can hop off this kid who very evidently isn't guilty, RTL can go back to helping write the appeal to the person they forced a false confession out of, and those of us having to wade in here to defend the poor lad can go back to antagonizing each other in other threads.

The idea that Right to Life forced anyone to confess to anything has been thoroughly debunked, so quit perpetuating this falsehood, Tim. Out of the blue, Texasa confessed to using Predator (as he understood "use," having Predator on his computer). He was the first person to mention Predator in the thread where he originally confessed. One player suggested that he tell the moderators, and he did.

Gest II wrote:So Cora and Texasa ,if he is ESL, should get some slack in their writing.

Texasa isn't ESL. I've said that twice in this thread. Please read more carefully.
Leo Tolstoy wrote:Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it.
GA#160: Forced Marriages Ban Act (79%)
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GA#231: Marital Rape Justice Act (81%)^
GA#233: Ban Profits on Workers' Deaths (80%)*
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Guy
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Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Guy » Tue Jun 07, 2016 1:38 pm

@CD, I agree with your post, apart from that I don't really see it as probable or likely at all that Texasia obtained access to Predator at any point.
Commander of the Rejected Realms Army

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