Illegal Script Usage "Predator": Punishments

[Christian Democrats]

Funny enough, the actions of one or two people is enough to get a region deleted. You are your region, and your region messed up. Just be glad you're not getting DEAT and swept.

Is that supposed to be some sort of threat?

Something that someone might or might not have done months before he joined a region is not a strike against a region. Texasa said that he used Predator, Ovybia suggested that he turn himself in before the discussion was finished, Texasa turned himself in, and Texasa ultimately got his main nation deleted. Now, several people are trying to figure out what actually happened and if/how Texasa could appeal.

I don't see how this mess concerns anyone but Texasa, and it's not "funny" to insinuate that a whole region should be deleted when the region has engaged in no wrongdoing. One member said he did something illegal, another suggested that he file a GHR, the first member filed a GHR, the moderators "asked for clarification," the player "confirmed the details," and the player's main account was deleted.

Honestly, your theory of region deletion is absurd. It's as if the moderators deleted a whole region because one player misconducted himself on the forums. The feeders and sinkers have multiple residents deleted daily, and those regions are not responsible for those players' actions. Right to Life, similarly, isn't responsible for one former DEN member's decision to (falsely) confess to misconduct.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Ah I see. Well I'll kick this around, but the scale of the investigation might make this more trouble than it's worth on our part.

Thank you. I don't think anyone is asking for anything like specific dates and numbers for every single person, but a general breakdown, even by groups, would be nice. It stems from things like, well, we know for a fact 94 never used predator becuase he was on Mac, but he's warned alongside others who did, and in other cases some people who we thought were about the same got drastically different levels - one talked to you and the other didn't? We don't know everything that happened? Prior history? It's just overall been kind of a step down from the usual level of <quote> "see underlined" <warned for flaming, 3 day ban based on prior history> and all that.

...of course there's the argument that that's not so true for gameside punishments, but these were posted on the forums, so...

*sighs*

I knew we should have just jumped straight to DOS's and let everyone figure it out on their own...

[Ovybia]

Ah I see. Well I'll kick this around, but the scale of the investigation might make this more trouble than it's worth on our part.

I appreciate the response regardless of the result.

I also would be interested in this idea. It would hopefully cut down on the speculation that we naturally have in regards to these investigations.

[G-Tech Corporation]

Thank you. I don't think anyone is asking for anything like specific dates and numbers for every single person, but a general breakdown, even by groups, would be nice. It stems from things like, well, we know for a fact 94 never used predator becuase he was on Mac, but he's warned alongside others who did, and in other cases some people who we thought were about the same got drastically different levels - one talked to you and the other didn't? We don't know everything that happened? Prior history? It's just overall been kind of a step down from the usual level of <quote> "see underlined" <warned for flaming, 3 day ban based on prior history> and all that.

...of course there's the argument that that's not so true for gameside punishments, but these were posted on the forums, so...

*sighs*

I knew we should have just jumped straight to DOS's and let everyone figure it out on their own...

+1

Burn them all. Max will know his own.

[Luziyca]

It was repeatedly asked and ignored that rulings be broken down much like, say, the recent redtext in the GC thread - by who exactly did what, who used an illegal script, who used it ages so but hasn't in forever, who distributed it, etc...both for the absolute clarity of those warned, and for the community as it tried to decide who was more a victim and who was more responsible.

Ah I see. Well I'll kick this around, but the scale of the investigation might make this more trouble than it's worth on our part.

If it is more trouble than it is worth, then I think you should not bother with it.

As for the situation with Tex and Predator, just uphold the ruling. We do not know if he is telling the truth: even if he is, it's better to have one false confession than to have someone with access to Predator being able to continue using the script on NS and destroying Gameplay.

I think the best way we could use this incident is to use that incident as a warning to others, by showing the consequences of giving false confessions to the mods. But I don't think Tex should have his punishment lifted.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Ah I see. Well I'll kick this around, but the scale of the investigation might make this more trouble than it's worth on our part.

If it is more trouble than it is worth, then I think you should not bother with it.

As for the situation with Tex and Predator, just uphold the ruling. We do not know if he is telling the truth: even if he is, it's better to have one false confession than to have someone with access to Predator being able to continue using the script on NS and destroying Gameplay.

I think the best way we could use this incident is to use that incident as a warning to others, by showing the consequences of giving false confessions to the mods. But I don't think Tex should have his punishment lifted.

What it's worth is a shitload of respect and community goodwill, something moderation doesn't always have many chances to earn in GP on top of which, they should have all the information present already, and know themselves who was warned for us- it's just be deciding what exactly that want to say publicly and some formatting.

[Luziyca]

If it is more trouble than it is worth, then I think you should not bother with it.

As for the situation with Tex and Predator, just uphold the ruling. We do not know if he is telling the truth: even if he is, it's better to have one false confession than to have someone with access to Predator being able to continue using the script on NS and destroying Gameplay.

I think the best way we could use this incident is to use that incident as a warning to others, by showing the consequences of giving false confessions to the mods. But I don't think Tex should have his punishment lifted.

What it's worth is a shitload of respect and community goodwill, something moderation doesn't always have many chances to earn in GP on top of which, they should have all the information present already, and know themselves who was warned for us- it's just be deciding what exactly that want to say publicly and some formatting.

Still, regardless of the result, I think the mods should not let Tex's punishment be lifted. If we allow him to be lifted, then others will claim that they were railroaded into saying that they used Predator, and where would it end?

[Zacherie]

If it is more trouble than it is worth, then I think you should not bother with it.

Sorry, but as someone who would actually like to know why they got hit with a WA ban and DEAT, I completely disagree. Knowing what you did is essential to not making the same mistake again, and I for one, do not want to get DoS.

I am certain that if you were hit with a WA ban of any sort, you would certainly not be saying "I don't care about why it happened."

Still, regardless of the result, I think the mods should not let Tex's punishment be lifted. If we allow him to be lifted, then others will claim that they were railroaded into saying that they used Predator, and where would it end?

Do you REALLY think that anyone on the punishment list is going to get anything back for saying they were railroaded? Is Gest going to come out of the wordworks crying that Halcones held his face to the keyboard and forced him to use it?

[Mallorea and Riva]

The third party commentary on Tex's punishment isn't necessary, if someone would help them file a coherent appeal we can sort it ourselves from there.

[Luziyca]

If it is more trouble than it is worth, then I think you should not bother with it.

Sorry, but as someone who would actually like to know why they got hit with a WA ban and DEAT, I completely disagree. Knowing what you did is essential to not making the same mistake again, and I for one, do not want to get DoS.

I am certain that if you were hit with a WA ban of any sort, you would certainly not be saying "I don't care about why it happened."

I was hit with a WA ban because I plagiarized a resolution a few years back. Not with this nation, but a different nation. But I was informed of it.

I am sure that he was informed of his WA ban, so I don't think we need to know it.

Still, regardless of the result, I think the mods should not let Tex's punishment be lifted. If we allow him to be lifted, then others will claim that they were railroaded into saying that they used Predator, and where would it end?

Do you REALLY think that anyone on the punishment list is going to get anything back for saying they were railroaded? Is Gest going to come out of the wordworks crying that Halcones held his face to the keyboard and forced him to use it?

It's best to avoid the possibility of such a thing from even happening in the first place.

But we should end this discussion here.

[Zacherie]

I am sure that he was informed of his WA ban, so I don't think we need to know it.

Ah, I think I got a little confused. I interpreted your post as "it's not worth going through and breaking down the original punishments." Appologies if that's not what it was.

[Ovybia]

The third party commentary on Tex's punishment isn't necessary, if someone would help them file a coherent appeal we can sort it ourselves from there.

We're working on it.

[Vando0sa]

Thank you. I don't think anyone is asking for anything like specific dates and numbers for every single person, but a general breakdown, even by groups, would be nice. It stems from things like, well, we know for a fact 94 never used predator becuase he was on Mac, but he's warned alongside others who did, and in other cases some people who we thought were about the same got drastically different levels - one talked to you and the other didn't? We don't know everything that happened? Prior history? It's just overall been kind of a step down from the usual level of <quote> "see underlined" <warned for flaming, 3 day ban based on prior history> and all that.

...of course there's the argument that that's not so true for gameside punishments, but these were posted on the forums, so...

*sighs*

I knew we should have just jumped straight to DOS's and let everyone figure it out on their own...

NooooOOOOOOOOOO! I like not being DoS! Please don't scare me like that.. losing main nation is plenty enough to scare me out of doing anything wrong for at least the next 200 years!

[Indo-Malaysia]

Just a question. Do people who used Predator and stopped using it before it was declared illegal get punished?

*sighs*

I knew we should have just jumped straight to DOS's and let everyone figure it out on their own...

NooooOOOOOOOOOO! I like not being DoS! Please don't scare me like that.. losing main nation is plenty enough to scare me out of doing anything wrong for at least the next 200 years!

200 years later...

[Vando0sa]

Just a question. Do people who used Predator and stopped using it before it was declared illegal get punished?

Yes! All who used it get a smack.

[Luziyca]

Still, regardless of the result, I think the mods should not let Tex's punishment be lifted. If we allow him to be lifted, then others will claim that they were railroaded into saying that they used Predator, and where would it end?

So by that analogy, anyone who was railroaded into confessing to a crime by the police should not have the right to appeal their conviction, because other people might try and use the same defense? Seems a little extreme.

This is a private site, not the police. Max can do whatever he wants.

[CoraSpia]

So by that analogy, anyone who was railroaded into confessing to a crime by the police should not have the right to appeal their conviction, because other people might try and use the same defense? Seems a little extreme.

This is a private site, not the police. Max can do whatever he wants.

That is very true, however if he didn't know what he was saying, and it is clear that he has a poor grasp of English, and the mods have no evidence of him actually using predator, his punishment should be lifted.

[Christian Democrats]

This is a private site, not the police. Max can do whatever he wants.

That is very true, however if he didn't know what he was saying, and it is clear that he has a poor grasp of English, and the mods have no evidence of him actually using predator, his punishment should be lifted.

It depends on what you mean by "using" Predator. In Right to Life, we've talked with Texasa. Somebody in DEN privately gave Texasa access to Predator or leaked the illegal script to him, but Texasa didn't know what it was for or how to operate it.

If "using" Predator means having Predator on your computer and, perhaps, running the script, Texasa is guilty.

If "using" Predator means employing the illegal script in order to gain an advantage in a raid, Texasa is not guilty.

As Nohbdy says above, the only thing that Texasa did for DEN is pile; he never did a jump at the major or minor UD.

[Queen Yuno]

pffh how exactly would someone leak the script to him if he never joined the regional skype channel? By telegram? =.=
You're accusing him of stuff he can't have done.

[Guy]

That is very true, however if he didn't know what he was saying, and it is clear that he has a poor grasp of English, and the mods have no evidence of him actually using predator, his punishment should be lifted.

It depends on what you mean by "using" Predator. In Right to Life, we've talked with Texasa. Somebody in DEN privately gave Texasa access to Predator or leaked the illegal script to him, but Texasa didn't know what it was for or how to operate it.

If "using" Predator means having Predator on your computer and, perhaps, running the script, Texasa is guilty.

If "using" Predator means employing the illegal script in order to gain an advantage in a raid, Texasa is not guilty.

I very much doubt that NS mods will seek to regulate what files you have on your computer. I think issue is whether you used an illegal script to interact with the NS servers.

I also think that the accuracy of this admission can be questioned.

[Christian Democrats]

Texasa says that he had Predator on his computer. He might have run it inadvertently, but he never used it to raid.

You're accusing him of stuff he can't have done.

I think he can download a file . . .

[Drasnia]

Texasa says that he had Predator on his computer. He might have run it inadvertently, but he never used it to raid.

You're accusing him of stuff he can't have done.

I think he can download a file . . .

Yuno is saying that Predator was a closely guarded secret. A person who piled a couple times, was never on chat, etc. should never have gotten access to the files. Thus either it's not true that he actually had the files to Predator or there was a breach in Predator's security that should never have happened.

[Christian Democrats]

Texasa says that he had Predator on his computer. He might have run it inadvertently, but he never used it to raid.


I think he can download a file . . .

Yuno is saying that Predator was a closely guarded secret. A person who piled a couple times, was never on chat, etc. should never have gotten access to the files. Thus either it's not true that he actually had the files to Predator or there was a breach in Predator's security that should never have happened.

Texasa got confused because he had the NS++ browser extension and Predator on his computer, not knowing what they were for. There was a breach in Predator's security, or the script was more widely distributed than DEN has acknowledged.

[Zacherie]

Yuno is saying that Predator was a closely guarded secret. A person who piled a couple times, was never on chat, etc. should never have gotten access to the files. Thus either it's not true that he actually had the files to Predator or there was a breach in Predator's security that should never have happened.

Texasa got confused because he had the NS++ browser extension and Predator on his computer, not knowing what they were for. There was a breach in Predator's security, or the script was more widely distributed than DEN has acknowledged.

Predator wasn't a closely guarded secret, but the files were kept within TBR, and the same likely applied to DEN.
Additionally, he would have had to get cleared by Halcones, and assuming that practices did not change, you had to be at least a lieutenant to gain access.
Even if he got the files, he wouldn't have been able to use it anyway. He'd just get a box telling him he's not a registered user.

[Gest II]

That is very true, however if he didn't know what he was saying, and it is clear that he has a poor grasp of English, and the mods have no evidence of him actually using predator, his punishment should be lifted.

It depends on what you mean by "using" Predator. In Right to Life, we've talked with Texasa. Somebody in DEN privately gave Texasa access to Predator or leaked the illegal script to him, but Texasa didn't know what it was for or how to operate it.

This is impossible as he didn't talk to anyone in the region. He didn't have Skype and he didn't raid. He just made two posts on the forum and then vanished. If you keep interrogating this guy he's going to confess to being at the grassy knoll.