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by GreatNazis » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:51 pm
by ChingisOtchigin » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:29 pm
by RiderSyl » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:20 am
Drop Your Pants wrote:Ridersyl wrote:In a time of despair for both sides of R/D, you choose making a tired partisan potshot over showing class.
Good to know where you stand, Delegate of Lazarus.
Loft's opinions are Loft's opinions not the opinion of Lazarus as a whole, don't make it regional.
And speaking of where players stand, you were TBR Syl. Did you have access to Predator?
by The Eastern Antarctic State » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:47 am
by Trick Shot » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:10 am
The Eastern Antarctic State wrote:So you're telling me that my first region The United Study Group, is practically the way it is because of a bunch of cheaters? Thanks guys, much class on display.
Marelius wrote:You got Festavo'd
Revall wrote:Festavo is an off his rocker cowboy capable of anything at the drop of a hat
Nuke wrote:But can you really be more dangerous than Festavo? Now that guy is a real fucking OG.
Valrifell wrote:God dammit Fest, you think too much!
by Ayvari » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:29 am
Cormactopia II wrote:I'm angry that I'm going to be lumped in with cheating, despite never using Predator. I'm angry that some of Predator's most avid users don't even consider me a real raider because of how many times I've changed alignments, but because I'm a raider now, I'll be lumped in with cheating just like any other raider.
Severisen wrote:You literally couldn't have missed the point more, even if you endorsed the native delegate.
Northern Chittowa wrote:If you look at those who have made names for themselves in this game, they are those who have stood up to defenders on an equal footin and actually beaten them on a tactical level...Those are the ones who will be remembered and indeed revered in history.
Syberis Montresor-Isaraider: There should be no distinction between a good raider and a good member of the GP community.
by Stalker Queen » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:08 am
The Eastern Antarctic State wrote:So you're telling me that my first region The United Study Group, is practically the way it is because of a bunch of cheaters? Thanks guys, much class on display.
Retired.Luna Amore wrote:You stalkin' too close.
by RiderSyl » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:36 pm
Stalker Queen wrote:The Eastern Antarctic State wrote:So you're telling me that my first region The United Study Group, is practically the way it is because of a bunch of cheaters? Thanks guys, much class on display.
From what I can tell, the refound was sniped in July 2014 before Predator was developed.
by Raionitu » Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:53 pm
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
Frisbeeteria wrote:Please stop.Please.
Souls wrote:Hi, I'm Souls. Have you embraced our lord and savior , Piling yet?
Souls wrote:Note to self: Watch out for Rai in my bedroom
Altinsane wrote:Me, about every suspiciously helpful newb I meet: "It's probably Rai."
Lord Dominator wrote:Koth is a drunken alternate personality of yours
by Almonaster Nuevo » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:26 am
by Ikania » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:26 am
Lord Ravenclaw wrote:This thread belongs to others.
by Ever-Wandering Souls » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:32 am
Lord Ravenclaw wrote:Loftegen wrote:
Oh noes, I've upset a native! Woe is me!
Loftegen, would you mind refraining from expressing your feelings in this thread? There is a time and a place for us to share our thoughts and feelings as Delegates of Feeders and Sinkers, but that is not here. This thread belongs to others.
My apologies to General COE, for this.
The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258
Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative
by Ikania » Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:33 am
Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:Ikania wrote:
I don't think thread ownership is a thing, unless that's changed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Pretty sure it was more of a "this isn't welcome" statement than a moderation one. No one can tell you to not post here, but CoE asked that this remain a place with a specific purpose, of reconciliation, not of confrontation.
by Zaolat » Wed Mar 23, 2016 1:04 pm
Ikania wrote:I don't think it's fair to blame all the people that used Predator. Most raiders didn't have a clue it was illegal but its creator, who is now, of course, gone. There doesn't seem to have been much of a dispute about it until a few days ago.
And as much as you may disrespect raiders, most of them stopped using Predator as soon as it was clearly illegal. There was one who defiantly refused to stop, who is now, of course, gone. I think it's good that the people who used it have apologized, and I don't think screaming more vitriol about how angry you are will accomplish much.Lord Ravenclaw wrote:This thread belongs to others.
I don't think thread ownership is a thing, unless that's changed. Correct me if I'm wrong.
by Mad-eye Jack » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:08 pm
by Lady Isolde » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:36 pm
Mad-eye Jack wrote:Whether or not they knew the coding in the script was illegal, they knew it was controlled by a DoS player. It seems like many of the raiders in this thread from all different organizations knew this information.
by Severisen » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:13 pm
by Raionitu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:17 pm
Lady Isolde wrote:Mad-eye Jack wrote:Whether or not they knew the coding in the script was illegal, they knew it was controlled by a DoS player. It seems like many of the raiders in this thread from all different organizations knew this information.
I've been reading through much of the information/evidence presented about the scandal the past few days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't many people, not just raiders, know that Predator was controlled by a DoS player? Public conversations on this very forum often included snippets about this "mysterious tool" that General Halcones controlled, if I recall correctly.
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
Frisbeeteria wrote:Please stop.Please.
Souls wrote:Hi, I'm Souls. Have you embraced our lord and savior , Piling yet?
Souls wrote:Note to self: Watch out for Rai in my bedroom
Altinsane wrote:Me, about every suspiciously helpful newb I meet: "It's probably Rai."
Lord Dominator wrote:Koth is a drunken alternate personality of yours
by Cormactopia II » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:26 pm
Mad-eye Jack wrote:Obviously we're all waiting to see what punishments moderation will hand out, but I get the feeling, and you can call me biased, that whatever punishments they hand out will probably not be sufficient for the scope of the damage done. Countless regions were harassed and destroyed, organizations reaped the benefits of the activity and exposure enabled by Predator, and people were put at risk of punishment for offenses they weren't entirely aware of. I think it'd be a mistake by raiderdom, the imperialist sphere, and independitism (not sure what they go by), to see what punishments moderation gives out and close the book on this ugly chapter of Gameplay history.
Mad-eye Jack wrote:For the sake of argument let's say that moderation makes all avid Predator users DoS (even that might be a stretch), but what about those high ranking officials in DEN and other organizations that didn't directly use Predator, but encouraged its use by other people? I doubt moderation is going to erase them from the game, which is just my speculation, but should they be allowed to carry on in the raiding community, the Gameplay community, as if nothing ever happened? Even if a random DEN officer/commander never used Predator, are we going to act like they didn't know the true nature of Predator? Are we going to act like they didn't know that a DoS player created Predator and was a point of access to Predator. Whether or not they knew the coding in the script was illegal, they knew it was controlled by a DoS player. It seems like many of the raiders in this thread from all different organizations knew this information.
So what is going to happen to these people who maybe didn't use Predator personally, but were high ranking officers who encouraged or tacitly endorsed its use and benefited from its use? If organizations like DEN continue on, will they continue to see the support of their current allies? If DEN folds, will their non DoS'd officers be allowed to parachute into other organizations and land in cushy high ranking jobs? If they try to create spin off regions like TBR went to DEN will the slate be wiped clean once again?
I think these are fair questions that many in the Gameplay community and native communities at large who might peruse here have popping into their heads. I know how I would answer these questions and maybe, because I'm a defender, it's too easy to share that I think raiders should answer no. But I see raiders in here that seem to care about how they are perceived and care that victory is achieved fairly. They want to create a better culture within the raiding community.
Mad-eye Jack wrote:There are a good number of you, who have said that you could have done more to stamp out Predator sooner. It makes me wonder what held people back from doing the more they wish they did? Was it fear of rocking the boat? Fear of retribution? Fear of losing numbers on the battlefield? Whether intended or not, the lack of action gives off the perception that when it came to Predator, for a long time, the benefits of silence were greater than speaking out and that essentially, Raider Unity trumped Site Legality. And here you are in this thread today feeling betrayed or wishing you did more, sooner.
I hope that this thread has shown those of you who felt more could have been done that you were not alone with your unease with regards to Predator and perhaps knowing that now it can inspire you to take action to right some wrongs and help prevent future incidents from ever happening. I know I have no sway in the raiding community, but I would hope these are the conversations that raiders are having behind closed doors with each other right now and together will enact appropriate changes to restore trust.
by Raionitu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:40 pm
Cormactopia II wrote: We already largely let The Black Riders get away with illegal script use once without serious repercussions beyond those that Moderation imposed, and then allowed them to migrate to DEN, Cimmeria, etc., and gave them a clean slate they didn't deserve. That lack of consequences has directly lead to this situation.
I can't speak for everyone, but for me, and for some others I've talked to, it was a failure to understand how seriously illegal Predator was.
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
Frisbeeteria wrote:Please stop.Please.
Souls wrote:Hi, I'm Souls. Have you embraced our lord and savior , Piling yet?
Souls wrote:Note to self: Watch out for Rai in my bedroom
Altinsane wrote:Me, about every suspiciously helpful newb I meet: "It's probably Rai."
Lord Dominator wrote:Koth is a drunken alternate personality of yours
by Cormactopia II » Wed Mar 23, 2016 5:57 pm
Raionitu wrote:I disagreed with several parts of your post, but these were the main two.
Predator was in use before the recruitment issue as far as I know(I could be wrong, someone please fact check that), so saying that the recruitment issue lead to the Predator issue is wrong, if anything, it was getting away with using Predator that encouraged TBR to use another illegal script.
Raionitu wrote:You claim a sort of immunity from punishment because you did not understand "how seriously illegal Predator was", then want to punish people who used it, even though many of them did not realize it was illegal. I'm sorry, but I see this as a double standard and hypocrisy, and I don't believe people like Kleo and Festavo should be demoted when they did not understand what Predator was doing.
by Mad-eye Jack » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:01 pm
Raionitu wrote:Lady Isolde wrote:I've been reading through much of the information/evidence presented about the scandal the past few days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't many people, not just raiders, know that Predator was controlled by a DoS player? Public conversations on this very forum often included snippets about this "mysterious tool" that General Halcones controlled, if I recall correctly.
Yes. I believe there was even at least one defender who was able to look over Predator code, and did not find a fault (see viewtopic.php?f=12&t=362288&p=26944459#p26944459 , there were later discussion but I cannot find the post at the moment, I believe they are somewhere in Benevolent Thomas's thread "my thoughts")
That also shows all the people who said raiders "should have done more" that it was not just raiders. At least one defender has stated they had access to Predator, and they did not report it either. Trying to point blame at the raiders is, quite frankly, pointless. If you know someone who specifically broke rules, send a GHR, don't sit here and repeatedly talk about how horrible raiders were for not knowing Predator was bad.
by Raionitu » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:21 pm
Koth wrote:you guys are cool, like lately ive been watching the overal state of the raider world and been like,"ew", but you guys are very not ew
Reppy wrote:Swearing is just fucking fine on this goddamn fucking forum.
Aguaria Major wrote:The Black Hawks is essentially a regional equivalent of Heath Ledger's Joker: they just want to watch the world burn
Frisbeeteria wrote:Please stop.Please.
Souls wrote:Hi, I'm Souls. Have you embraced our lord and savior , Piling yet?
Souls wrote:Note to self: Watch out for Rai in my bedroom
Altinsane wrote:Me, about every suspiciously helpful newb I meet: "It's probably Rai."
Lord Dominator wrote:Koth is a drunken alternate personality of yours
by Cormactopia II » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:26 pm
Raionitu wrote:I do not appreciate your final comment Cormac, as in it you are essentially calling me a liar or cheater, and saying that everyone involved in DEN is a liar and or cheater. With your comment you are acting little better than the people who are overreacting and saying that this makes all raiders bad. I find it hard to take advice from people who will turn to comments and insults like that, while claiming to have good solutions. It's a little thing called respect.
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