NationStates

Phydios wrote:There's two ways to opt out. Have an active founder or a regional password. I hate raiding, but it's not going anywhere, by Max's orders.
Also, no region wants to be raided, so having to ask permission before raiding would basically shoot it in the head. Giving raiders an identifying badge would do the same. But just for fun, exactly how would you implement this labeling system? How would the game decide whether a nation was a raider?

When they are condemned, and one of the reasons is that they were raiding, they would get a badge. However, I feel as though a "combat zone" in which there are false regions you could raid, or a area where you pit military numbers against each other. But raiding just feels wrong. These are the people with no respect for anyone, and they should learn respect.

Here's a really crazy idea: If DEN likes raiding so much, how about we raid DEN?

ADST World wrote:

Phydios wrote:There's two ways to opt out. Have an active founder or a regional password. I hate raiding, but it's not going anywhere, by Max's orders.
Also, no region wants to be raided, so having to ask permission before raiding would basically shoot it in the head. Giving raiders an identifying badge would do the same. But just for fun, exactly how would you implement this labeling system? How would the game decide whether a nation was a raider?

When they are condemned, and one of the reasons is that they were raiding, they would get a badge. However, I feel as though a "combat zone" in which there are false regions you could raid, or a area where you pit military numbers against each other. But raiding just feels wrong. These are the people with no respect for anyone, and they should learn respect.

Here's a really crazy idea: If DEN likes raiding so much, how about we raid DEN?

They have a founder, and many allies in the raider community: just look at St. Abbaddon. They also have 100s or 1000s of nations willing to help. To quote a Japanese admiral: "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

New Los Angelos wrote:

ADST World wrote:
When they are condemned, and one of the reasons is that they were raiding, they would get a badge. However, I feel as though a "combat zone" in which there are false regions you could raid, or a area where you pit military numbers against each other. But raiding just feels wrong. These are the people with no respect for anyone, and they should learn respect.

Here's a really crazy idea: If DEN likes raiding so much, how about we raid DEN?

They have a founder, and many allies in the raider community: just look at St. Abbaddon. They also have 100s or 1000s of nations willing to help. To quote a Japanese admiral: "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I'm not saying it would be easy, but so many groups hate DEN. We could start with their small puppet regions and move on from there.

One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

ADST World wrote:When they are condemned, and one of the reasons is that they were raiding, they would get a badge. However, I feel as though a "combat zone" in which there are false regions you could raid, or a area where you pit military numbers against each other. But raiding just feels wrong. These are the people with no respect for anyone, and they should learn respect.

Here's a really crazy idea: If DEN likes raiding so much, how about we raid DEN?

Oh boy.

- Condemnation badges don't carry over to puppets. That means you still won't be able to identify raiders on the battlefield. Nobody uses their main.
- The "combat zone" idea was implemented with the Warzone regions. It didn't work.
- Raiding is fun. You think being a raider means you have no respect for anyone? You think I need to learn respect, because of what I do on a game? You need a healthy dose of perspective if that's what you genuinely believe.
- Raiding the raiders isn't a new idea. It just generally fails.

The Brand New Salvatagard Republic wrote:One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

Raiding is a legitimate part of the game. There are ways of stopping raiders that have been described ad naseum, usually by raiders

If you fail to use these methods then, sorry, little sympathy.

As for raiding DEN, they don't really care about the small puppets. But the only raid on raiders that actually worked (that I know of) was a massive raid on TBR by almost everyone, including some raiders. But they spread to TBH, BR, BOS, and DEN. And now DEN and TBH are massive, and could do invasions like St. Abbadon and Anarchy. But you could get the small puppets, but they wouldn't care.

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:

The Brand New Salvatagard Republic wrote:One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

Raiding is a legitimate part of the game. There are ways of stopping raiders that have been described ad naseum, usually by raiders

If you fail to use these methods then, sorry, little sympathy.

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."

New Los Angelos wrote:But the only raid on raiders that actually worked (that I know of) was a massive raid on TBR by almost everyone, including some raiders.

Which happened after TBR's founder was deleted. That doesn't happen often to invader organizations.

ADST World wrote:

New Los Angelos wrote:They have a founder, and many allies in the raider community: just look at St. Abbaddon. They also have 100s or 1000s of nations willing to help. To quote a Japanese admiral: "There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass."

I'm not saying it would be easy, but so many groups hate DEN. We could start with their small puppet regions and move on from there.

Huh? Do you understand how R/D actually functions in the game. If you can figure out a way to raid a region with a non-executive delegate please by all means, recruit an army and I will join. Until then, please keep your advice to yourself if you don't understand how it works.

The Brand New Salvatagard Republic wrote:One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

Even if you all rallied together to stop DEN the members would just reorganize in another place. At best, if you someone found a way to destroy DEN, you would cause them a day or 2 of confusion before they got reorganized in another region. Most raiding groups have forums and Skype groups, so taking over the region would be more symbolic.
Also, even if you managed to truly destroy DEN, there are plenty of other raiding groups out there to raid you.

Nyx Vasentius wrote:

The Brand New Salvatagard Republic wrote:One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

Even if you all rallied together to stop DEN the members would just reorganize in another place. At best, if you someone found a way to destroy DEN, you would cause them a day or 2 of confusion before they got reorganized in another region. Most raiding groups have forums and Skype groups, so taking over the region would be more symbolic.
Also, even if you managed to truly destroy DEN, there are plenty of other raiding groups out there to raid you.

You have a point, by just ridding NS of DEN, it does not mean that other raiding regions will be gone either and they're all expanding anyway, the other raiding groups are just expanding slower than DEN is at the moment.

The Brand New Salvatagard Republic wrote:One of my puppet's regions keeps on getting invaded by DEN and I hate it! BRING DEN TO ITS KNEES!!! INVADE DEN TO KEEP REGIONS THE WAY THEY ARE AND TO KEEP EVERYONE HAPPY BESIDES DENERS!

The same thing was said about The Black Riders before Halc was DOSed, and the raiders just kept on coming. What makes you believe that if DEN was destroyed, the raiders would simply evaporate?

Look man....

DEN and the Black Hawks will be around til the end of NationStates, there gonna invade every region they see that can be invaded for god's sake.
It's a shiny badge of honor to condemn them.

Let's sum this up for the whole god forsaken World Assembly.


GET USED TO IT.

I honestly never really understood Max Barry's staunch support of raiding in NationStates.

While I would not be one to tell people how to play, I do take a bit of umbrage to the unspoken NationState rule of 'A raiders enjoyment of playing NationStates takes president over anyone elses enjoyment in playing'. Where they can relatively easily roll into other smaller or less active players nations and ruin what others have built simply for their own personal enjoyment. there is no opt-out system or real way to hinder them without also hindering the development of the very region you are trying to protect in the process.

Basically, the deck is stacked in raiders favor and has been for quite some time. I cannot see them not continuing to take full advantage of their support from the games designer.

Like others have said, not much the rest of us can do but roll with it when it happens, unfortunately.

Look, i'm just here to propose ideas, not get yelled at.

Chill out peeps.

I feel frustrated and powerless, and feel Nationstates needs to adjust the system in some way. I would love the freedom to let anybody who wants in to be there, and have power.

But I guess people just don't like that people want to do that.

ADST World wrote:Look, i'm just here to propose ideas, not get yelled at.

Chill out peeps.

I feel frustrated and powerless, and feel Nationstates needs to adjust the system in some way. I would love the freedom to let anybody who wants in to be there, and have power.

But I guess people just don't like that people want to do that.

Then just strip powers from your delegate, but give the currently sitting one a RO position that amounts to the same? Since it'd be non-transferable without founder intervention, everything largely works out.

As for the rest, you may perceive the system to be lacking. But proposed tweaks would have to actually achieve something.

Lyra and Bon Bon wrote:there is no opt-out system or real way to hinder them without also hindering the development of the very region you are trying to protect in the process.

Why does it need repeating so often that having an executive Founder IS your opt-out? Literally nothing a raider can do to a foundered region that can't be undone in seconds.

Literally nothing, right?

The old wildlife pen pal wrote:Literally nothing, right?

The streak ending hits did absolutely no damage to the regions you linked. Try again.

Ambroscus Koth wrote:Literally nothing a raider can do to a foundered region that can't be undone in seconds.

You can't undo 8+ continuous years in the delegate seat in seconds. It takes, literally, years.

The point is made, and correct. I don't need to try again.

Ambroscus Koth wrote:

The old wildlife pen pal wrote:Literally nothing, right?

The streak ending hits did absolutely no damage to the regions you linked. Try again.

You said, and I quote, "literally nothing a raider can do to a foundered region that can't be undone in seconds."

Ambroscus Koth wrote:Literally nothing a raider can do to a foundered region that can't be undone in seconds.

Would you leave the goalposts in one spot for five seconds? That's something a raider can do to a foundered region that can't be undone at all, "damage" or not.

But you know what, let me quibble with your definition of "damage" for a bit as well. What makes a region valuable is the emotional investment that's been made in it, and sometimes the records it keeps. Usually the "records it keeps" means the memories recorded in its rmb, but the same is true of long standing delegates (who no doubt enjoy having a digitally preserved, publicly visible record of their time with the region). Organizing a concerted effort just to destroy that record is, at the very least, in technical terms, a "dick move."

If someone was to tell me that the loss of a label next to their delegate seat was emotionally harmful to them, I would tell them it's not worth caring that much about and that there are way, way more important things in life.

Morndul, why are you making such a small, insignificant part of the game seem so important?

I hate den as well they invaded my region but I was able to fix everything they had done I just wanted to make a region with my mates then this happens

Ridersyl wrote:If someone was to tell me that the loss of a label next to their delegate seat was emotionally harmful to them, I would tell them it's not worth caring that much about and that there are way, way more important things in life.

Morndul, why are you making such a small, insignificant part of the game seem so important?

I'll first remind you that I sorted this "label next to their delegate seat" into the "records" category and not the "emotional investment" category (granted, they're not mutually exclusive).

Now, your question. "Morndul, why are you making such a small, insignificant part of the game seem so important?" That's a loaded question obviously. It relies on me to accept your premises that A.) it is small and insignificant and B.) that I'm making it "seem so important."

So I'll tell you what I think of your premises. Small and insignificant? No. I find the matter small, but its significance depends on its relevance in context. And in our current context (challenging Koth's claim here), it's very relevant.

Naturally, I also don't agree that I'm ascribing it any undue importance.

Now I'll ask you a question. Do you disagree that briefly ending a long-time delegate's reign, to take away "a label next to their delegate seat," is a dick move?