Just got invaded by DEN

[Sacred Toast]

The region I am in has an endorsement cap of 50% of the WA delegate, maybe you could find out how to do that too?

endorsement caps are superficial they don't physically prevent someone from getting more than 50%
It just means they will warn you or ban/eject you from the region if you try to get more than 50% endorsements

[The old wildlife pen pal]

As I said in my earlier post, it's not about your reaction, though.
Also, there's no fun in the act of raiding something that's been created with the purpose of being raided. 'Tis why Warzones didn't become a popular thing.

But why is it no fun? There is no technical distinction between raiding a WZ and any another region. You can get the same 'rush', the same 'fast tight jumping' you claim to enjoy.

Instead, WZs are largely only ever hit when there is something there to destroy - a long delegacy or a community.

Be inconsistent, I don't mind. But be honest with your inconsistencies.

Also, as Souls is so keen to point out, not every raider holds the same view. You can continue to protest that reactions mean nothing to you, but they very clearly are the reason why some others raid.

[Cora III]

@Jack.

No disagreements for sake of them. Simply how I see it. Part of Defenders' 'defense' is that they are present out there. Only that forces raiders take higher risks, lowering results 20-30%, particularly if defenders outnumber us.

Of course we can do what we do if only opposition is occasional natives online. There are no R/D without D. R will there always be as long as delegates are elected by majority of endorsements, and nations can move freely.

You know. Mostly organisational issue, you struggle with.

@Admins&mods: Trouble seems to be solved. Thanks. o/

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

The region I am in has an endorsement cap of 50% of the WA delegate, maybe you could find out how to do that too?

endorsement caps are superficial they don't physically prevent someone from getting more than 50%
It just means they will warn you or ban/eject you from the region if you try to get more than 50% endorsements

Yet they are vital to the security of a subsection of regions. A small number, sure. Look at it this way -

Even with a lot of planning, the very largest of raider updater groups are 30-40 endorsements. Generally, even large groups are in the 20's. One purpose of endo caps (besides discouraging coups in large regions like GCR's) is to keep a gap like that. If your region has 60 endorsements on the delegate, I can tell you right now we'll never jump in there 100% fresh - we will use a sleeper nation within to gain a head-start on endorsements. That's there the cap matters - if it's at 20, we'll probably not bother you. If it's a 30, we're more likely to. If it's set at 40, and we can get up there, well then it's a fairly easy hit in terms of large occupation hits. Endocaps are very useful- with the disclaimer being, only if you have enough endorsements on the delegate that you can cap it at a point that makes a raid unlikely.

[Queen Yuno]

Well, I saw some good things come out of raiding. Super inactive founders return and get active again! Regions have natives who notice their region got raided and check up on it, and once they fix the mild mess we made, they get active and participate!

We just cause a stir with long term benefits, you just don't see it immediately,

(If no founders or natives return to check their region, then that region's dead to begin with and our raids technically make no difference. If they were already super active, then it's very easy to fix. There are TOOLS to recover lost WFEs, and raiders tend to leave overnight 'cuz it's tag raiding.)

I'm not a vicious person, I just see that there is no such thing as permanent damage which is why I raid and also there are some lovely people to chat with in DEN! That's primarily why I'm in it. Not because I'm aiming for hate-telegrams/reactions (though I do get them, gomenasai)

Don't forget to mention the very interesting discussions DEN nations have in the occupied regions RMBs. Posts from natives get suppressed and raiders usually post things like:

"DEN IS THE BEST REGION IN EXISTENCE

ALL HAIL DEN

DEN FOREVER"

And if raiders tend to leave active regions overnight, why are you holding your grasp on some native regions for months even claiming natives have to surrender?

In other words: don't believe anything raiders tell you or at least think twice.

Raiders want you to surrender and leave your region if it is from any relevance, so they can refound it and use it as a trophy.
Raiders want you to believe that their actions are beneficial to your region (activating it, showing security problems, ...), but actually they're destabilizing it and scaring away native nations (or banjecting them).
Raiders want you to believe their actions are harmless while they're just having fun, but instead they're bullying other players with the excuse they're more powerfull.

Your region's the only exception, though... -shrug- we're aiming for a surrender in name only, and then everyone's happy and we won't intrude long and your natives won't get booted out and you can keep praising anarchy :3 it's gameplay on our end and an easy solvable peril on yours.
And...honestly we only do this once every several months....so don't worry about it, 'cuz we don't do it often, just sticking primarily to overnight tag raids.

xP

[We Are Not the NSA]

As I said in my earlier post, it's not about your reaction, though.
Also, there's no fun in the act of raiding something that's been created with the purpose of being raided. 'Tis why Warzones didn't become a popular thing.

But why is it no fun? There is no technical distinction between raiding a WZ and any another region. You can get the same 'rush', the same 'fast tight jumping' you claim to enjoy.

Oh yes, because controlling the 6 warzones will totally provide the same amount of fun as a 112 hit tag run.

The region I am in has an endorsement cap of 50% of the WA delegate, maybe you could find out how to do that too?

To be fair, the region you are in also has a non-executive delegacy... And an alliance with DEN if I recall correctly.

[The old wildlife pen pal]

But why is it no fun? There is no technical distinction between raiding a WZ and any another region. You can get the same 'rush', the same 'fast tight jumping' you claim to enjoy.

Oh yes, because controlling the 6 warzones will totally provide the same amount of fun as a 112 hit tag run.

Are my posts difficult to understand, or are people deliberately misunderstanding what I write? Either way it is becoming purely annoying.

I did not say hit only WZs. I said WZs are not hit.

This was in response to Syl saying "it's not about your reaction" and "there's no fun in [raiding a WZ]". Given there is no distinction in how you raid a WZ compared to any other similarly sized region, the two statements are by necessity contradictory.

Controlling 6 WZs is probably not the same as tagging 112 regions. But tagging 112 non-WZ regions compared to tagging 112 regions - some of which happen to be WZs - should provide the same amount of fun if your enjoyment is not derived at all from the reaction you create.

[Waldriech]

The solution is, "The good-minded nations of NSFW should invadexpect DEN!"

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Oh yes, because controlling the 6 warzones will totally provide the same amount of fun as a 112 hit tag run.

Are my posts difficult to understand, or are people deliberately misunderstanding what I write? Either way it is becoming purely annoying.

I did not say hit only WZs. I said WZs are not hit.

This was in response to Syl saying "it's not about your reaction" and "there's no fun in [raiding a WZ]". Given there is no distinction in how you raid a WZ compared to any other similarly sized region, the two statements are by necessity contradictory.

Controlling 6 WZs is probably not the same as tagging 112 regions. But tagging 112 non-WZ regions compared to tagging 112 regions - some of which happen to be WZs - should provide the same amount of fun if your enjoyment is not derived at all from the reaction you create.

>Most warzones have 5-6 endos, which is generally too big to be included in the average tag run and too small to be an occupation target.

>We do hit warzones from time to time, about as often as any other region with enough endos not to be tagged

>Warzones don't make for very interesting occupations - you can banject everyone in one go, which kills the fun for both the few that do like reactions and those that generally just like the strategy of drawn-out occupations, and as GCR's, they cannot be refounded, making them a no-go for *that* crowd.

>Warzones *do* have communities. In fact, communities that are generally more gameplay-cognizant and active than the vast majority of regions, that often team up between each other and with the help of other regions to repel invaders.

Warzones are hit. They are not hit exclusively, as you did not say, because as I'm sure you understand, nothing makes them especially temping. As I've said above, for a number of reasons, they are less tempting than the average region, or as Syl put it, "no fun." Only one of the six-odd reasons I listed, which aren;t every single one either, is because natives can't stick around in the region and resist, and I also refuted that in the fact that Warzones can and do actively resist occupations more than most regions, a fact for which there is plenty of evidence around this forum.

[Natapoc]

Don't forget to mention the very interesting discussions DEN nations have in the occupied regions RMBs. Posts from natives get suppressed and raiders usually post things like:

"DEN IS THE BEST REGION IN EXISTENCE

ALL HAIL DEN

DEN FOREVER"

And if raiders tend to leave active regions overnight, why are you holding your grasp on some native regions for months even claiming natives have to surrender?

In other words: don't believe anything raiders tell you or at least think twice.

Raiders want you to surrender and leave your region if it is from any relevance, so they can refound it and use it as a trophy.
Raiders want you to believe that their actions are beneficial to your region (activating it, showing security problems, ...), but actually they're destabilizing it and scaring away native nations (or banjecting them).
Raiders want you to believe their actions are harmless while they're just having fun, but instead they're bullying other players with the excuse they're more powerfull.

Your region's the only exception, though... -shrug- we're aiming for a surrender in name only, and then everyone's happy and we won't intrude long and your natives won't get booted out and you can keep praising anarchy :3 it's gameplay on our end and an easy solvable peril on yours.
And...honestly we only do this once every several months....so don't worry about it, 'cuz we don't do it often, just sticking primarily to overnight tag raids.

xP

That's not a very good answer.

YoriZ caught you in a clear contradiction. You can't just back out of it with "Your region is the only exception".

That's not what your invader delegate is saying anyway. He's saying we'll be made like "st_abbaddon" which he took credit for destroying despite their active and long history.

My hope is that you have all become so successful at your coordinated bullying and community destruction attempts that soon the site creator will have to make changes to stop giving people like you such advantages. Hopefully such changes will be implemented in the couple years it will require for you to take Anarchy.

[ChingisOtchigin]

Such my friends, is war. In real life there is no Divine Intervention to stop one country invading another, why should there be divine intervention here to stop one region invading and burning out another, 'specially considering nothing serious actually happens.

[RiderSyl]

Most of those opposed to raiders and raiding are only going after the weaker points made in this thread.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Oh yes, because controlling the 6 warzones will totally provide the same amount of fun as a 112 hit tag run.

Are my posts difficult to understand, or are people deliberately misunderstanding what I write? Either way it is becoming purely annoying.

I did not say hit only WZs. I said WZs are not hit.

This was in response to Syl saying "it's not about your reaction" and "there's no fun in [raiding a WZ]". Given there is no distinction in how you raid a WZ compared to any other similarly sized region, the two statements are by necessity contradictory.

Controlling 6 WZs is probably not the same as tagging 112 regions. But tagging 112 non-WZ regions compared to tagging 112 regions - some of which happen to be WZs - should provide the same amount of fun if your enjoyment is not derived at all from the reaction you create.

Ah, forgive me for misunderstanding. I know that at least one of the Warzones is off limits for some reason (It's gov't is a colony or something of an allied region). For the rest, EWS covered the reason the WZs never get hit: it is rare that a tag group has enough people to make the WZs active targets.

Ironically enough, while a majority of regions do not have particularly noteworthy reactions to tag raids, the one time I can recall ever hitting a WZ, the natives freaked. I was surprised by this, almost as much as I was (and still am) confused as to why anyone would choose to live in a warzone. Yet people do anyways.

As to the claim that I enjoy the reactions of natives, I have a factbook (linked in my signature) that explains why you shouldn't react, reminds people of the site rules and includes links to wfe and flag restoring tools. It is a complete guide on what to do if you get tag raided, plus suggestions for keeping yourself from getting raided again. If I truly raided just to see people's reactions, I would not go so far out of my way to encourage people not to react.

[YoriZ]

As to the claim that I enjoy the reactions of natives, I have a factbook (linked in my signature) that explains why you shouldn't react, reminds people of the site rules and includes links to wfe and flag restoring tools. It is a complete guide on what to do if you get tag raided, plus suggestions for keeping yourself from getting raided again. If I truly raided just to see people's reactions, I would not go so far out of my way to encourage people not to react.

* puts on his tin foil hat

Brainwash alert!
Many raiders do love reactions of natives and having a first aid kit for raided regions in your factbook doesn't validate raiding in my opinion.
Such a factbook only tells natives not to whine because it is their own fault they got raided.

BTW: Natives have a right to nag about raiding as much as raiders have a right to raid and nag about whining natives.

[We Are Not the NSA]

As to the claim that I enjoy the reactions of natives, I have a factbook (linked in my signature) that explains why you shouldn't react, reminds people of the site rules and includes links to wfe and flag restoring tools. It is a complete guide on what to do if you get tag raided, plus suggestions for keeping yourself from getting raided again. If I truly raided just to see people's reactions, I would not go so far out of my way to encourage people not to react.

* puts on his tin foil hat

Brainwash alert!
Many raiders do love reactions of natives and having a first aid kit for raided regions in your factbook doesn't validate raiding in my opinion.
Such a factbook only tells natives not to whine because it is their own fault they got raided.

BTW: Natives have a right to nag about raiding as much as raiders have a right to raid and nag about whining natives.

Wasn't trying to validate raiding, just arguing that despite what some people say, we aren't a bunch of sadists.

Also, if you read the factbook, you'll find that I don't blame the natives at any point in it, because it's not their fault. The reason I created it was to help the residents of regions I've raided clean up (a tactic straight out of the Sour Patch Kids playbook ).

[The old wildlife pen pal]

>Most warzones have 5-6 endos, which is generally too big to be included in the average tag run and too small to be an occupation target.

>We do hit warzones from time to time, about as often as any other region with enough endos not to be tagged

This doesn't add/subtract from fun (in any way that I can work out). Granted it does affect your target selection (which is another matter)

>Warzones don't make for very interesting occupations - you can banject everyone in one go, which kills the fun for both the few that do like reactions and those that generally just like the strategy of drawn-out occupations, and as GCR's, they cannot be refounded, making them a no-go for *that* crowd.

As I said in my earlier post, it's not about your reaction, though.

Unless Syl is a fan of devising occupation strategy (maybe he his, idk) this is irrelevant.

>Warzones *do* have communities. In fact, communities that are generally more gameplay-cognizant and active than the vast majority of regions, that often team up between each other and with the help of other regions to repel invaders.

I don't think I've said otherwise. People in WZs have specifically opted-in to R/D. No doubt they would have a different response to being raided to natives in RandomRegionA.

Warzones are hit. They are not hit exclusively, as you did not say, because as I'm sure you understand, nothing makes them especially temping. As I've said above, for a number of reasons, they are less tempting than the average region, or as Syl put it, "no fun." Only one of the six-odd reasons I listed, which aren;t every single one either, is because natives can't stick around in the region and resist, and I also refuted that in the fact that Warzones can and do actively resist occupations more than most regions, a fact for which there is plenty of evidence around this forum.

I do wonder how you manage to say it's possible to fully grief a WZ in an update, and yet WZ natives actively resist occupations more than "most regions" (who are resisting by default unless they move out/drop WA/unendorse the old delegate). Unless you engineer a scenario where you deliberately keep your endorsement count low, I'm not seeing WZ natives gathering 30+ updaters to liberate the region (but who knows, maybe they could!).

Unless Syl is specifically a fan of devising occupation strategy, I still fail to see how a WZ is more or less tempting than any similarly sized RandomRegion for Syl to raid.

So I will stand by my original point that Syl's post was contradictory and repeat that I don't care that it contradicts, so long as Syl doesn't pretend that it doesn't.

Ah, forgive me for misunderstanding. I know that at least one of the Warzones is off limits for some reason (It's gov't is a colony or something of an allied region). For the rest, EWS covered the reason the WZs never get hit: it is rare that a tag group has enough people to make the WZs active targets.

No worries. Tangentially related: I've seen you have 10 (or 11) taggers....and still mostly be going for delegateless regions/1-3 endorsement count regions. When will you have enough?

As to the claim that I enjoy the reactions of natives, I have a factbook (linked in my signature) that explains why you shouldn't react, reminds people of the site rules and includes links to wfe and flag restoring tools. It is a complete guide on what to do if you get tag raided, plus suggestions for keeping yourself from getting raided again. If I truly raided just to see people's reactions, I would not go so far out of my way to encourage people not to react.

That part of the discussion is aimed solely at Syl as he claimed to not care about natives' reactions. As Souls has mentioned, for any raider that does enjoy the griefing/refounding, general annoyance to natives etc. then there is of course a difference between raiding a WZ (and people who have specifically opted in) and raiding a similarly sized region (of people who have not opted-out).

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

>Most warzones have 5-6 endos, which is generally too big to be included in the average tag run and too small to be an occupation target.

>We do hit warzones from time to time, about as often as any other region with enough endos not to be tagged

This doesn't add/subtract from fun (in any way that I can work out). Granted it does affect your target selection (which is another matter)

>Warzones don't make for very interesting occupations - you can banject everyone in one go, which kills the fun for both the few that do like reactions and those that generally just like the strategy of drawn-out occupations, and as GCR's, they cannot be refounded, making them a no-go for *that* crowd.

As I said in my earlier post, it's not about your reaction, though.

Unless Syl is a fan of devising occupation strategy (maybe he his, idk) this is irrelevant.

>Warzones *do* have communities. In fact, communities that are generally more gameplay-cognizant and active than the vast majority of regions, that often team up between each other and with the help of other regions to repel invaders.

I don't think I've said otherwise. People in WZs have specifically opted-in to R/D. No doubt they would have a different response to being raided to natives in RandomRegionA.

Warzones are hit. They are not hit exclusively, as you did not say, because as I'm sure you understand, nothing makes them especially temping. As I've said above, for a number of reasons, they are less tempting than the average region, or as Syl put it, "no fun." Only one of the six-odd reasons I listed, which aren;t every single one either, is because natives can't stick around in the region and resist, and I also refuted that in the fact that Warzones can and do actively resist occupations more than most regions, a fact for which there is plenty of evidence around this forum.

I do wonder how you manage to say it's possible to fully grief a WZ in an update, and yet WZ natives actively resist occupations more than "most regions" (who are resisting by default unless they move out/drop WA/unendorse the old delegate). Unless you engineer a scenario where you deliberately keep your endorsement count low, I'm not seeing WZ natives gathering 30+ updaters to liberate the region (but who knows, maybe they could!).

Unless Syl is specifically a fan of devising occupation strategy, I still fail to see how a WZ is more or less tempting than any similarly sized RandomRegion for Syl to raid.

So I will stand by my original point that Syl's post was contradictory and repeat that I don't care that it contradicts, so long as Syl doesn't pretend that it doesn't.

Ah, forgive me for misunderstanding. I know that at least one of the Warzones is off limits for some reason (It's gov't is a colony or something of an allied region). For the rest, EWS covered the reason the WZs never get hit: it is rare that a tag group has enough people to make the WZs active targets.

No worries. Tangentially related: I've seen you have 10 (or 11) taggers....and still mostly be going for delegateless regions/1-3 endorsement count regions. When will you have enough?

As to the claim that I enjoy the reactions of natives, I have a factbook (linked in my signature) that explains why you shouldn't react, reminds people of the site rules and includes links to wfe and flag restoring tools. It is a complete guide on what to do if you get tag raided, plus suggestions for keeping yourself from getting raided again. If I truly raided just to see people's reactions, I would not go so far out of my way to encourage people not to react.

That part of the discussion is aimed solely at Syl as he claimed to not care about natives' reactions. As Souls has mentioned, for any raider that does enjoy the griefing/refounding, general annoyance to natives etc. then there is of course a difference between raiding a WZ (and people who have specifically opted in) and raiding a similarly sized region (of people who have not opted-out).

- They were reasons why warzones don;t get hit more often, not necessarily just why it may not be "fun" to do so.

-It's possible to *eject* everyone in one go, which removes the aspect of managing influence and ejection costs within the region. Natives can still resist, just as those ejected from any other region can, and are generally more likely to do so.

-Not sure where you're seeing 10-11 taggers. Most I've seen in a single command anytime recently was the 100-breaker, which had six or seven IIRC, and then broken down into a number of teams. Sure, they could have opted to do a delegate-run instead of a number-breaking run with that number, possibly hitting a warzone in the process, but that's more a toss-up among who organized it.

[ChingisOtchigin]

Most of those opposed to raiders and raiding are only going after the weaker points made in this thread.

Damn, I should stop posting then <_<

[The old wildlife pen pal]

- They were reasons why warzones don;t get hit more often, not necessarily just why it may not be "fun" to do so.

Right, but the "fun" is the key aspect here.

-It's possible to *eject* everyone in one go, which removes the aspect of managing influence and ejection costs within the region. Natives can still resist, just as those ejected from any other region can, and are generally more likely to do so.

I guess we're distinguishing between "useful" resistance and "useless" resistance. The "useful" resistance - which is the hardest - is more likely to be conducted by those who understand R/D and/or those less likely to 'react' (in the 'fun' way). Given, as I said, it is unlikely for WZ regions to find 30+ updaters, this isn't happening (unless, as I also said, you engineer a scenario where your lead has fewer endorsements). "Useless" resistance, however, I would say falls under the 'reaction' (in the 'fun' way) that Syl derives no pleasure from.

-Not sure where you're seeing 10-11 taggers. Most I've seen in a single command anytime recently was the 100-breaker, which had six or seven IIRC, and then broken down into a number of teams. Sure, they could have opted to do a delegate-run instead of a number-breaking run with that number, possibly hitting a warzone in the process, but that's more a toss-up among who organized it.

I suppose it was two weeks ago now. I'm 90% sure the point had 10 endorsements for several hits (which dropped to around 8 at some stages). They hit significantly fewer regions than smaller groups, and were all moving for the same target. They definitely weren't going for any records. This isn't really related though.

[RiderSyl]

<snip>

Hey. The Warzones were created for invaders and failed before I joined the game. Speaking for myself, I enjoy hitting a Warzone just as much as I enjoy hitting "Random Region A". Only during tag raids, though. If we're talking occupations (and yes, I do enjoy the strategy and planning that goes behind them ) then Warzones are basically impossible targets. You get in, you easily wipe out the entire region because there's no influence cost, and within seconds, you've won. It never lasts long enough to be occupied. You can't occupy a Warzone, IMO.

I'm not surprised if I'm contradicting Souls or any other raiders in this thread. We're all different raiders. All of us raid for our own reasons. It doesn't simply come down to 'lel lets grief some peeps'.

[Guy]

BT hasn't been the most active defender on our end for months. Rom has never been.

I see that the majority of the fenda establishment still counts inactivity as activity.

I'll be on standby for the actual vaders, though.

Your standby must be "lounging next to the pool in the hot sun while skimming through the Herald Sun and sipping a a pomegranate martini." The "actual vaders" are still waiting.

Whatever makes you sleep easy at night, mate.

Cute, but I don't read the Hun. Let alone skim it -- you'd be done in a minute!

[Jersey Republic]

Raiders are annoying, alright that's my spiel, goodbye

[ChingisOtchigin]

I suppose it was two weeks ago now. I'm 90% sure the point had 10 endorsements for several hits (which dropped to around 8 at some stages). They hit significantly fewer regions than smaller groups, and were all moving for the same target. They definitely weren't going for any records. This isn't really related though.

Not sure what you're smoking, but TG me, I want some too. We have yet to have more than 8 people on at an update. And 8 is like, insane numbers, once in a billion years. As for the "100 breaker", there were 6 peepz + me.

[ADST World]

<snip>

Hey. The Warzones were created for invaders and failed before I joined the game. Speaking for myself, I enjoy hitting a Warzone just as much as I enjoy hitting "Random Region A". Only during tag raids, though. If we're talking occupations (and yes, I do enjoy the strategy and planning that goes behind them ) then Warzones are basically impossible targets. You get in, you easily wipe out the entire region because there's no influence cost, and within seconds, you've won. It never lasts long enough to be occupied. You can't occupy a Warzone, IMO.

I'm not surprised if I'm contradicting Souls or any other raiders in this thread. We're all different raiders. All of us raid for our own reasons. It doesn't simply come down to 'lel lets grief some peeps'.

I know, but it is still annoying and frustrating. Making locations you can occupy, at various difficulties, should be a priority.

Also, Max said he would not add war because it was too complicated, But I could program it in in less than a month. Is there another resin for no war?

[Leppikania]

Hey. The Warzones were created for invaders and failed before I joined the game. Speaking for myself, I enjoy hitting a Warzone just as much as I enjoy hitting "Random Region A". Only during tag raids, though. If we're talking occupations (and yes, I do enjoy the strategy and planning that goes behind them ) then Warzones are basically impossible targets. You get in, you easily wipe out the entire region because there's no influence cost, and within seconds, you've won. It never lasts long enough to be occupied. You can't occupy a Warzone, IMO.

I'm not surprised if I'm contradicting Souls or any other raiders in this thread. We're all different raiders. All of us raid for our own reasons. It doesn't simply come down to 'lel lets grief some peeps'.

I know, but it is still annoying and frustrating. Making locations you can occupy, at various difficulties, should be a priority.

Also, Max said he would not add war because it was too complicated, But I could program it in in less than a month. Is there another resin for no war?

It would give too much of an advantage to militant nations. That's why.