NationStates

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:09 pm**

Numero Capitan wrote:Govindia has been promoted to Senior Warrant Officer

This was all I needed to see.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:19 pm**

Ehh, AWP reserves the right to have an extremely unpopular gameplayer with a history of off-site fuckery, just as the rest of us reserve the right to shower them with unfavorable opinions for doing so.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:37 pm**

Ridersyl wrote:Ehh, AWP reserves the right to have an extremely unpopular gameplayer with a history of off-site fuckery, just as the rest of us reserve the right to shower them with unfavorable opinions for doing so.

It should go further than unfavorable opinions. Regions that harbor people who OOC harass other people off-site, and who expect not only their own members but potentially members of other regions to be exposed to them, should be completely shunned. No one should join such regions, accept their embassy requests, work with them at update, or have anything at all to do with them. It's time that we start taking this issue seriously rather than just letting it go as we've done for years when regions like Wintreath have gotten away with this.

Regions like this, and anyone who doesn't isolate regions like this, are just enabling the worst kind of OOC off-site behavior. I'm extremely disappointed to see people like Benevolent Thomas, Dyr Nasad, and Rom contributing there while this is going on.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:40 pm**

I think that knowing they've acted like that elsewhere should raise concerns instead of get a "Well we've never seen them act like that!" sort of reaction. But that's just my take, and as Sev said, it's neither my region to run nor ruin.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:08 pm**

Numero Capitan wrote:Gov has never been that involved in regional affairs, but he has notched up 81 RDF missions which is not to be sniffed at. We don't really turn anyone away, it adds colour

Yep, I don't understand why everyone is up in arms over defender regions sheltering Govindia. After all, defenders value activity over anything else.
*sniffs*

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:38 pm**

Govindia's "promotion" was the result of a records backlog dating back over half a decade ago. He's not even a Citizen of AWP >:(

Now can we all return to celebrating the return of A World Power? On a personal level, I'm quite happy with my new regional home. AWP has such a rich history and its great to see some of these players returning from the shadows. I can see myself planting some roots here, surrounded by people I admire.

Knot II wrote:Benevolent Thomas: Still very much a class act.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:52 pm**

Benevolent Thomas wrote:Govindia's "promotion" was the result of a records backlog dating back over half a decade ago. He's not even a Citizen of AWP

If he's not a citizen, how was he promoted? Is he or is he not still permitted to participate in AWP and/or the RDF?

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:54 pm**

Benevolent Thomas wrote:Govindia's "promotion" was the result of a records backlog dating back over half a decade ago. He's not even a Citizen of AWP

I beg to differ.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:58 pm**

Knot II wrote:
Benevolent Thomas wrote:Govindia's "promotion" was the result of a records backlog dating back over half a decade ago. He's not even a Citizen of AWP

I beg to differ.

I guess that answers my question. So, what's the new excuse for harboring him, thus exposing your own citizens as well as anyone who wants to work with AWP to his off-site behavior?

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:26 pm**

I'm telling you, he is not a citizen. He's not listed in the Citizenship/Eligible Voters list. Take my word for it. I've made an inquiry about his masking and the issue will be forced/settled.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:42 pm**

I think it should be noted that BT does not enable harassment. If Unibot lost his legendary defender throne, you can thank the efforts of people like BT who oppose harassment. One of the people on the site I trust most in that aspect is BT, who has been an incredible support on that issue.

We don't know that nothing has been said about the issue already. We don't exactly have an inside look into their internal affairs, just what can be seen by the public. If Gov had cit, BT at least didn't know, so why should he get the blame for Gov's association which predated BT's time in AWP?

We might want to try and root out the problem where we can, but stigmatizing people who have worked hard against this isn't the right way to do it.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:43 pm**

Cormac Stark wrote:
Ridersyl wrote:Ehh, AWP reserves the right to have an extremely unpopular gameplayer with a history of off-site fuckery, just as the rest of us reserve the right to shower them with unfavorable opinions for doing so.

It should go further than unfavorable opinions. Regions that harbor people who OOC harass other people off-site, and who expect not only their own members but potentially members of other regions to be exposed to them, should be completely shunned.

Syl, care to share stories about Halc and what went on in TBR? I found them most illuminating. And before you say it Cormac, no I am not defending Gov. He is a pain in the ass on IRC an that will never change.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:58 pm**

Benevolent Thomas wrote:I'm telling you, he is not a citizen. He's not listed in the Citizenship/Eligible Voters list. Take my word for it. I've made an inquiry about his masking and the issue will be forced/settled.

Then why is he being promoted? That doesn't make a tiny bit of sense. Regardless of his past contributions, you don't promote someone who is no longer there and participating, whom you intend not to allow to be there and participate in the future.

For the record, I'm not blaming you for Govindia being there or being promoted; it's pretty clear Numero is responsible for that. I'm also not trying to stigmatize you. These regions that harbor -- and promote! -- people who have engaged in bad OOC off-site behavior are enabling further such behavior though, and people who participate in such regions enable those regions. In that sense, I'm disappointed to see you -- as well as Dyr and Rom -- participating there until they make a commitment not to harbor Govindia. Only shunning these regions will force them to stop harboring people engaged in bad OOC off-site behavior.

On the other hand, I'm told that Govindia remains unbanned from #jump because Wintreath also continues to harbor him, so this is not solely AWP's problem. It's a defender problem.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:31 pm**

Cormac Stark wrote:These regions that harbor -- and promote! -- people who have engaged in bad OOC off-site behavior are enabling further such behavior though, and people who participate in such regions enable those regions.

You said the same thing about Unibot in the TSP Embassy thread. I'm not sure offsite behavior should take front and center in this (unless it's illegal). If AWP is indeed promoting Govindia, that's their prerogative. Let the chips fall where they may.

What about on-site behavior? TNP's offsite forum is home to Nierr/Madjack (DoS in NS). In the recent past, there was an attempt to pass legislation to allow him to become an 'honorary' citizen of TNP. Thankfully, that failed. Some high ranking gov't officials sang his praises as a significant contributor to the region, all the while glossing over his behavior here. Does that meet the criterion of enabling?

(apologies if this is a bit off topic)

*edit* Crap.. I was logged in on a puppet when I posted this. :blush:

Meant to post as Falapatorius

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:37 pm**

Xeutia wrote:You said the same thing about Unibot in the TSP Embassy thread. I'm not sure offsite behavior should take front and center in this (unless it's illegal). If AWP is indeed promoting Govindia, that's their prerogative. Let the chips fall where they may.

I'm sorry, I don't accept toleration of someone proven to engage in OOC harassment of other players -- up to and including showing up in person, without even the hint of an invitation, at another player's front door -- to be just "their prerogative." If they're going to tolerate someone like that because he's a number for them when they're defending, that's sick and their region should be completely shunned, which is what I've been saying.

Xeutia wrote:What about on-site behavior? TNP's offsite forum is home to Nierr/Madjack (DoS in NS). In the recent past, there was an attempt to pass legislation to allow him to become an 'honorary' citizen of TNP. Thankfully, that failed. Some high ranking gov't officials sang his praises as a significant contributor to the region, all the while glossing over his behavior here. Does that meet the criterion of enabling?

(apologies if this is a bit off topic)

If you'd like to discuss TNP and Nierr, take it to TNP's thread, start a new one, or privately contact me, and I'll be glad to answer. I don't want to threadjack with this completely off-topic matter.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:40 pm**

Cormac Stark wrote:
Benevolent Thomas wrote:I'm telling you, he is not a citizen. He's not listed in the Citizenship/Eligible Voters list. Take my word for it. I've made an inquiry about his masking and the issue will be forced/settled.

Then why is he being promoted? That doesn't make a tiny bit of sense. Regardless of his past contributions, you don't promote someone who is no longer there and participating, whom you intend not to allow to be there and participate in the future.

For the record, I'm not blaming you for Govindia being there or being promoted; it's pretty clear Numero is responsible for that. I'm also not trying to stigmatize you. These regions that harbor -- and promote! -- people who have engaged in bad OOC off-site behavior are enabling further such behavior though, and people who participate in such regions enable those regions. In that sense, I'm disappointed to see you -- as well as Dyr and Rom -- participating there until they make a commitment not to harbor Govindia. Only shunning these regions will force them to stop harboring people engaged in bad OOC off-site behavior.

On the other hand, I'm told that Govindia remains unbanned from #jump because Wintreath also continues to harbor him, so this is not solely AWP's problem. It's a defender problem.

I have literally seen Gov two times - once on the forums, once on the IRC. His AWP nation eas ejected from the region. See: Govindia. So, by that basis, he does not have a nation in the region. Guess what means? He is not a Citizen of the region.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:49 pm**

Well, AWP is different than 00000 AWP

But I think the sentiment counts at least a bit.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:51 pm**

Rom wrote:I have literally seen Gov two times - once on the forums, once on the IRC. His AWP nation eas ejected from tge region. See: Govindia. So, by that basis, he does not have a nation in the region. Guess what means? He is not a Citizen of the region.

That does not mesh at all with this:

Numero Capitan wrote:Gov has never been that involved in regional affairs, but he has notched up 81 RDF missions which is not to be sniffed at. We don't really turn anyone away, it adds colour

Until we hear otherwise from Numero Capitan, Govindia is tolerated in AWP, or at least in the RDF, because they don't turn anyone away and he "adds colour."

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:52 pm**

Benevolent Thomas wrote:Well, AWP is different than 00000 AWP But I think the sentiment counts at least a bit.

I know, but technically it kinda is a part of AWP. And he doesn't have a nation in either region currently.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:44 pm**

You know people like to hate on Cormac for how he goes about handling things and not letting things go, but he is a major reason why people actually end up following through with taking the proper action towards players like Govindia and Unibot.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:08 pm**

Benevolent Thomas wrote:Govindia's "promotion" was the result of a records backlog dating back over half a decade ago. He's not even a Citizen of AWP

Now can we all return to celebrating the return of A World Power? On a personal level, I'm quite happy with my new regional home. AWP has such a rich history and its great to see some of these players returning from the shadows. I can see myself planting some roots here, surrounded by people I admire.

Knot II wrote:Benevolent Thomas: Still very much a class act.

Actually I am a citizen of AWP. Cormac is a turncoat raider who only wants to cause trouble and stir up emotions.

and your claims of OOC harassment are unfounded and I will ask you to cease and desist since you cannot provide proof. All of your wording is considered harassment and personal attacks of me and will not be tolerated.

Knock it off Cormac. No one cares what you have to say. Go start another coup in Osiris,or was it The South Pacific you had your heart set on?

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:19 pm**

The Silver Sentinel wrote:
Cormac Stark wrote:It should go further than unfavorable opinions. Regions that harbor people who OOC harass other people off-site, and who expect not only their own members but potentially members of other regions to be exposed to them, should be completely shunned.

Syl, care to share stories about Halc and what went on in TBR? I found them most illuminating. And before you say it Cormac, no I am not defending Gov. He is a pain in the ass on IRC an that will never change.

We have not met ?

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:21 pm**

Not gonna waste my time responding to a troll who has just come off a three day ban for "continued personal attacks and threadjacking" and is only going one way if he carries on with this crap on this thread.

Would suggest others should take note of that too.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:23 pm**

Ayvari wrote:
Ridersyl wrote:Are we still talking about Gov, or do they have more members that y'all see as toxic to their community? Legitimately asking.

I was trying to be obvious without actually saying it out loud. Or typing it out for the world to see. Haven't you noticed the Gameplay trend of people appearing when they're mentioned?

Xoriet does not have any room to talk about ethical behaviour considering her actions towards me were not appropriate in any fashion. If she, nor anyone else, has anything nice or respectful to say, people should not post and attack me when I've hardly bothered anyone because you know, trying to keep a roof over my head for myself and my cat is more important, but I'm sure no one understands.

Posted: **Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:42 pm**

Govindia wrote:Cormac is a turncoat raider who only wants to cause trouble and stir up emotions.

and your claims of OOC harassment are unfounded and I will ask you to cease and desist since you cannot provide proof. All of your wording is considered harassment and personal attacks of me and will not be tolerated.

Knock it off Cormac. No one cares what you have to say. Go start another coup in Osiris,or was it The South Pacific you had your heart set on?

What do Cormac's actions in-game have to do with your actions off-site? It's a non-sequitur and an attempt to deflect. Additionally, I have, in my inbox, a telegram from you which says "Blackmail is not a crime on TEP's forums or the TOS or TEP's laws." Blackmail is placing pressure on someone, and so is harassment. By your own admission, you were harassing someone.

NationStates

00000 A World Power