NationStates

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 3:54 pm**

"Back to democratic institutions," implying a democratic institution ever existed. I have no doubt you'll return the system to what it was before anyone posed a threat to your ego, but I'm not confident that it's going to be free of the conditition that you'll flip your shit again if you don't get what you want.

The implication that you're doing what's best for Osiris furthers precisely the indiscriminate fear you have of change. 90% in favor of the Pharaoh and nearly all major embassies withdrawn is a fairly crushing defeat of your aspirations to be helpful. If you'd like to argue that the forum was controlled by a minority of the region, I believe you flamed me over the same accusation.

When hypocrisy becomes hard to defend, reevaluate the situation.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:07 pm**

The Stalker wrote:My this is an interesting turn of events. The whole democracy / monarchy debate is very important one for the ruling of any NS community.

A good strong King can do more good than even the best democracies, but then again an evil King can do more damage than even the worst democracies.

That's the real question, is this a bad democracy being replaced by a good King? Or a good democracy being replaced by an evil King? I leave such judgments to those more invested than I.

*suddenly appears in the discussion*

When there is someone controlling the democratic process, that creates a dictating monarch behind the veil of constitutional democracy. I can think of other regions with constitutional monarchies/parliamentary democracies where the monarch has an unhealthy amount of influence in the "democratic" processes. Cormac has demonstrated with his "father knows best" justification for his actions that the democracy in Osiris was an illusion for him as it is with other regions that have autocratic monarchs under the same veil.

The important issue is that Cormac apparently did not have the mandate of the lawful processes in place to assume this position of leadership. A king that assumes power in this manner, whatever his intentions, is not the legitimate king and establishes a dangerous precedent of Middle Age-esque struggles for power between rulers and therefore establishes a tyranny above the rule of law.

George will be proud of you, Cormac.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:50 pm**

Statement from Europeia

You can find our official statement here: http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p28451768 but in short, Europeia finds the Transitional Government illegitimate and will not support it.

Signed,

Trinnien, President of Europeia

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 4:59 pm**

The OFO sincerely thanks you for the support. Every region coming out in support of us further proves our legitimacy.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:06 pm**

Ikania wrote:The OFO sincerely thanks you for the support. Every region coming out in support of us further proves our legitimacy.

Pretty statements in Gameplay have never, ever won a Delegacy.

The Osiris Fraternal Order -- the real one -- regrets that Europeia has turned out to be as disappointing as we should always have expected.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:08 pm**

Cormactopia II wrote:
Ikania wrote:The OFO sincerely thanks you for the support. Every region coming out in support of us further proves our legitimacy.

Pretty statements in Gameplay have never, ever won a Delegacy.

The Osiris Fraternal Order -- the real one -- regrets that Europeia has turned out to be as disappointing as we should always have expected.

You're the fake one tho

"no we're not"

- cormac

I'll stop this from going in circles because that's unnecessary, but regardless we thank Europeia for the support.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:09 pm**

Cormactopia II wrote:the real one

From where do you derive your legitimacy?

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:14 pm**

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:
Cormactopia II wrote:the real one

From where do you derive your legitimacy?

"Because I said I'm legitimate"

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:16 pm**

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:
Cormactopia II wrote:the real one

From where do you derive your legitimacy?

Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords, of course.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:29 pm**

Cormactopia II wrote:
Elegarth wrote:I do have a question, Cormac. If you are the Pharaoh, shouldn't you be the Delegate, or is Tim holding to it in some specific quality? I know I'm no expert on Osiris political structure prior to whatever this is, but I thought it was the case. Am I that wrong?

Tim is currently serving as Delegate for practical reasons, i.e., that he has vastly more endorsements than I currently have, and quite a bit more influence. Normally, the Pharaoh would serve as Delegate, but in the event of a security threat the Vizier or a Guardian may be authorized to take the regional Delegacy to deal with that threat. That's what's happening here during this state of emergency. Eventually, when Osiris is stable and secure, as Pharaoh I will also assume the regional Delegacy.

I should note that I am succeeding Tim as Pharaoh because that was how he wanted it, not because I have some strong desire to serve as Pharaoh. Had Tim not had real life priorities that prevent him from further service as Pharaoh, he would still be Pharaoh, and I would either be his Vizier or continuing to assist him as a Guardian. This entire situation would still have unfolded pretty much exactly as it has, though, because this is not about making me Pharaoh out of some hunger for power, this is about dealing with a serious threat to the security of Osiris.

Not a Bang but a Whimper wrote:Basically Cormac's only platform was that he'd separate the Head of State and the delegacy. So I guess you could say he's true to his intentions.

You've got this wrong. What we seek to do is separate the Delegacy from the head of government. The Pharaoh would continue to serve as Delegate of Osiris and head of state. The community would elect a head of government -- we're going with Chief Scribe as a working title -- who would hold governmental power but would not serve as Delegate. This is similar to Balder's system, in which the Queen serves as Delegate and head of state, and the Statsminister serves as head of government.

What we're basically talking about here is constitutional monarchy, with extremely limited power for the Pharaoh as Delegate and head of state, and most governmental power vested in a new head of government office. This is part of why I find the claim that I'm in this due to hunger for power so amusing. Yes, I'm so hungry for power that I plan to devolve power back to democratic institutions as soon as the emergency situation ends. Damn me!

I'm not fully following, Cormac. I do believe that you don't want power in the sense of having the responsibility of being in charge and having to ensure activity. I also believe that you don't need to be in the delegate position if it is someone you trust. However, for you, and in turn Tim and Koth, to say you are not hungry for power is just a lie. Literally that is what this is all about. Having the power for the region to be stable as you see it. Having the power to have someone as delegate you see fit. Having the power to go against the majority of the community. This is nothing beyond a power trip. Well I guess there's plenty of paranoia involved as well.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 5:50 pm**

Jakker Loves Rawr wrote:I'm not fully following, Cormac. I do believe that you don't want power in the sense of having the responsibility of being in charge and having to ensure activity. I also believe that you don't need to be in the delegate position if it is someone you trust. However, for you, and in turn Tim and Koth, to say you are not hungry for power is just a lie. Literally that is what this is all about. Having the power for the region to be stable as you see it. Having the power to have someone as delegate you see fit. Having the power to go against the majority of the community. This is nothing beyond a power trip. Well I guess there's plenty of paranoia involved as well.

As one of the several people who has increased the sense of paranoia in Osiris in a power play for our Delegacy by posing as someone you weren't, you of all people should understand why we feel we must take this step for the stability and security of Osiris. We aren't willing to subject Osiris to another Lemon Love or The Dourian Embassy as Delegate.

You have played your part in creating this situation, so come down off that pedestal of moral superiority, please.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:04 pm**

Cormactopia II wrote:
Jakker Loves Rawr wrote:I'm not fully following, Cormac. I do believe that you don't want power in the sense of having the responsibility of being in charge and having to ensure activity. I also believe that you don't need to be in the delegate position if it is someone you trust. However, for you, and in turn Tim and Koth, to say you are not hungry for power is just a lie. Literally that is what this is all about. Having the power for the region to be stable as you see it. Having the power to have someone as delegate you see fit. Having the power to go against the majority of the community. This is nothing beyond a power trip. Well I guess there's plenty of paranoia involved as well.

As one of the several people who has increased the sense of paranoia in Osiris in a power play for our Delegacy by posing as someone you weren't, you of all people should understand why we feel we must take this step for the stability and security of Osiris. We aren't willing to subject Osiris to another Lemon Love or The Dourian Embassy as Delegate.

You have played your part in creating this situation, so come down off that pedestal of moral superiority, please.

There is no moral superiority. I am simply calling you out on your incorrect rhetoric. Sadly, you, Tim, and Koth have so little ground with this that it is pretty easy to do. You all need to spew out whatever you can to make this sound legitimate. Even someone like you who is pretty good with words is having quite the challenge.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:18 pm**

This all seems really familiar...

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:30 pm**

Feux wrote:This all seems really familiar...

Elaboration for the kiddos?

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:43 pm**

Ikania wrote:
Feux wrote:This all seems really familiar...

Elaboration for the kiddos?

Cormac wrote:...we feel we must take this step for the stability and security of Osiris

This is the same BS rhetoric my team was using for Lazarus, and what most people use when they are clearly in it for themselves. They aren't fooling anyone, and I hope everything goes wrong for Tim and Cormac.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:48 pm**

Feux wrote:
Ikania wrote:Elaboration for the kiddos?

Cormac wrote:...we feel we must take this step for the stability and security of Osiris

This is the same BS rhetoric my team was using for Lazarus, and what most people use when they are clearly in it for themselves. They aren't fooling anyone, and I hope everything goes wrong for Tim and Cormac.

I do believe the hypocrisy meter may just have exploded.... :clap:

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:50 pm**

John Turner wrote:
Feux wrote:

This is the same BS rhetoric my team was using for Lazarus, and what most people use when they are clearly in it for themselves. They aren't fooling anyone, and I hope everything goes wrong for Tim and Cormac.

I do believe the hypocrisy meter may just have exploded....

It makes me a hypocrite to wish they don't succeed? They wished I didn't. If we all just worked together this wouldn't be a problem.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:53 pm**

John Turner wrote:
Feux wrote:

This is the same BS rhetoric my team was using for Lazarus, and what most people use when they are clearly in it for themselves. They aren't fooling anyone, and I hope everything goes wrong for Tim and Cormac.

I do believe the hypocrisy meter may just have exploded....

Isn't it funny how he tried to deny me entry into Lazarus because he had done more to fight an illegal coup than me?

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:59 pm**

Feux wrote:
John Turner wrote:I do believe the hypocrisy meter may just have exploded....

It makes me a hypocrite to wish they don't succeed? They wished I didn't. If we all just worked together this wouldn't be a problem.

No.... It makes you a hypocrite for criticizing the very thing you tried to do. It also makes Cormac a hypocrite for criticizing the NPO for all these years, and him doing exactly what the NPO did.

As for working together? Not everyone wants to work "together" under the benevolent rule of you and Cormac.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 6:59 pm**

Ikania wrote:
John Turner wrote:I do believe the hypocrisy meter may just have exploded....

Isn't it funny how he tried to deny me entry into Lazarus because he had done more to fight an illegal coup than me?

Whatever you need to tell yourself man.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:01 pm**

John Turner wrote:
Feux wrote:
It makes me a hypocrite to wish they don't succeed? They wished I didn't. If we all just worked together this wouldn't be a problem.

No.... It makes you a hypocrite for criticizing the very thing you tried to do. It also makes Cormac a hypocrite for criticizing the NPO for all these years, and him doing exactly what the NPO did.

As for working together? Not everyone wants to work "together" under the benevolent rule of you and Cormac.

I'm criticizing the players trying to do it.

And you don't seem to understand that people play into the narratives of the regions they play apart in. If you don't understand that then everyone is a hypocrite in GP.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:03 pm**

Ikania wrote:Isn't it funny how he tried to deny me entry into Lazarus because he had done more to fight an illegal coup than me?

...Jesus Whale is going to have to do a lot better than your ilk if he wants to win this fight, Ikania. Your pettiness and infantile remarks in Gameplay reflect badly on him and his side of this. If you want him to succeed, I'd kindly suggest not acting like a complete child and instead talking like you have a shred of maturity and dignity. Wherever you learned how to mudsling and bring up past grievances, I would also recommend finding a new teacher and taking lessons. The elected Pharaoh would be better off tossing you overboard before you sink his ship.

/cue jokes about whales not needing ships

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:05 pm**

Feux wrote:I'm criticizing the players trying to do it.

Which is precisely what makes you a hypocrite.

Feux wrote:And you don't seem to understand that people play into the narratives of the regions they play apart in. If you don't understand that then everyone is a hypocrite in GP.

Of course everyone is a hypocrite in GP! 99% of people have their own best interests in mind. It still isn't going to stop me from calling them on it though.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:05 pm**

I was against the NPO's coup of Lazarus and supported the PRL.
I was the one that leaked Predator outside of DEN and part of those that assisted moderation.
But in this one, I'm for the Transitional Government of the OFO, and against... the "other OFO".

Isn't that just weird? Or maybe...

I'm just picking the right side again.

Posted: **Tue Apr 19, 2016 7:08 pm**

Sandaoguo wrote:
Biyah wrote:Hard decisions happen. To generalize everything into strictly black and white terms, now that is the cliché.

~B

Not really. It's not hard to decide that you're not gonna give up your Delegate seat, and you're gonna install your friends in power. What's hard is finding a way to work through issues without doing that. It's a pretty damn easy decision to just give yourself all the power you want

In politics, we call this, "humbling."