The Osiris Fraternal Order

[General Knot]

Coups always do well to stir up activity.

[Mousebumples]

Today's featured region is Gatesville Inc. Max himself can't write such a horrifying coincidence.

Assuming that there is such a thing as coincidence on this site...

This UN Card (designed by Flibbleites) is too perfect to not add to this thread:

[Biyah]

Right, it's only a 'full blown' coup if UDL helps in the transition process. Remember that, Uni? Thought you might.

Welcome back. Just in time for a coup.

I was away from NationStates at the time, but if I recall the precise circumstances: Gatesville had invaded Osiris, while the KRO requested UDL's assistance to take back Osiris. And no, I don't consider a liberation Osiris from Gatesville to be a "coup." Even Gates would struggle to not smile at that bull.

Actually, GV moved about 10 nations in - we produced a scare, and UDL propped NK into the seat because he was a Guardian. And then, we unfurled the Empire flag. Only Cormac blatantly ignored that order, given by Mahaj, to propel NK into the seat. And he (rightfully) told em all 'Told you so!' Did I ever tell you that making your group look incompetent was one of my proudest moments in the latter half of my career?

Anyway, do try to get your history right, Uni. Not that you ever have, but there are a lot of people still around for that with logs. And, funny enough, our posts still exist on the RMB history - probably around page 250 or so, at as guess.

Toodles, and don't forget to mend your panty hose.

~B

Edit: Proof, the original press release by Mad Jack, the Pharoah. http://pastebin.com/P9bMNgAg
Enjoy

[Cormactopia II]

Best of luck to Osiris in resolving its internal conflict quickly.

Thank you, we appreciate that!

Today's featured region is Gatesville Inc. Max himself can't write such a horrifying coincidence.

Assuming that there is such a thing as coincidence on this site...

I hadn't noticed this, but that's pretty hilarious. Thanks Max!

To other comments, I will simply say that we will not be responding to the usual controversy mongering in any official capacity. The Osiris Fraternal Order has endured every tempest in a teapot thrown its way in the Gameplay forum, and I'm sure it will endure this one as well. Our statement was posted here only to notify friends, allies, and other regions of note of this development, not to engage in 50 pages of debate.

[John Turner]

How is this not the precise system of governance that Cormac Stark criticized TWP for adopting? And surely the clearer path to avoiding patronage is to elect cabinets, like in TRR and TSP? Or approve ministers, like in Lazarus? This seems like a big, self-interested change being advocated for something that could be resolved through simpler means.

And then there's the whole, you know, cancelling the "Transitional Government" stuff, which is quite obviously a 'veiled' coup...

Late to the party as usual.

not to engage in 50 pages of debate.

Uh huh....

I of course will be resigning my delegacy to reenter the R/D sphere in order to combat this blatant violation of good order. I think I have 7 or 8 puppets stationed in Osi already, so......

[Sandaoguo]

If AJW switching his vote to himself means that his would meet the requisite margin for victory, then that's not manipulation of the vote or a subversion of democracy. That means a minority of citizens wanted to reopen nominations, but more wanted AJW to be Pharaoh. AJW is allowed to change his mind, isn't he? And is there a law against promising positions to people before being elected? When you have simple majority requirements, you can't get upset when somebody wins by a simple majority

If you're gonna coup, just straight up coup. It doesn't many sense to fabricate a reason, especially when that reason isn't logically or legally consistent.

[Biyah]

I think it's more fun to watch you people beat your chest when they have a flimsy legal argument to retake the delegacy for the security of the region. Ya'll get so, righteous, it's fun to watch.

Although the quality of mud flinging has certainly declined since my day.

~B

[John Turner]

Today's featured region is Gatesville Inc. Max himself can't write such a horrifying coincidence.

Assuming that there is such a thing as coincidence on this site...

This UN Card (designed by Flibbleites) is too perfect to not add to this thread:

I am curious as to how Durk fits into all of this. It just wouldn't be a good GCR coup if Durk wasn't involved....

[ROM]

Oh huh. A coup in Osiris, how ever am I surprised.

[John Turner]

Oh huh. A coup in Osiris, how ever am I surprised.

So when this all fails, who is going to be fed to the wolves a'la Feux? Cormac or Tim?

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I am all out of images that can be used to describe this event.

I... don't agree. I can't agree with this. My credibility was used to normalise the OFO as the government of Osiris with a good deal of many regions and seeing something I helped establish with my efforts in such a state is heart wrenching.

But at the same time, in January I said that if Osiris was couped by one of those they let back in, it was on them. It is times like this that I am pleased that I am no longer a WA Member in Osiris.

The Osiris I knew, and loved, has long since been butchered by strife and now I question whether or not I made the right choice 2 years ago.

[Sandaoguo]

Cormac wrote:
As a general note to everyone, nobody likes this situation, and we all had a difficult time reaching this decision. ...

This is such a cliche, though. Since when has it ever been a hard decision for somebody to make themselves a king?

[Biyah]

Hard decisions happen. To generalize everything into strictly black and white terms, now that is the cliché.

~B

[Sandaoguo]

Hard decisions happen. To generalize everything into strictly black and white terms, now that is the cliché.

~B

Not really. It's not hard to decide that you're not gonna give up your Delegate seat, and you're gonna install your friends in power. What's hard is finding a way to work through issues without doing that. It's a pretty damn easy decision to just give yourself all the power you want

[John Turner]

I am all out of images that can be used to describe this event.

I... don't agree. I can't agree with this. My credibility was used to normalise the OFO as the government of Osiris with a good deal of many regions and seeing something I helped establish with my efforts in such a state is heart wrenching.

But at the same time, in January I said that if Osiris was couped by one of those they let back in, it was on them. It is times like this that I am pleased that I am no longer a WA Member in Osiris.

The Osiris I knew, and loved, has long since been butchered by strife and now I question whether or not I made the right choice 2 years ago.

So I assume some sort of formal statement condemning these actions and formal diplomatic sanctions are on tap from The North Pacific?

Hard decisions happen. To generalize everything into strictly black and white terms, now that is the cliché.

~B

How are these decisions any more justified than the decision to coup Lazarus by the NPO? Hmmm?

[Todd McCloud]

If needed, the old Osiris forums are still fresh.

[Cormactopia II]

If needed, the old Osiris forums are still fresh.

To whom is this offer being directed?

[Biyah]

Hard decisions happen. To generalize everything into strictly black and white terms, now that is the cliché.

~B

Not really. It's not hard to decide that you're not gonna give up your Delegate seat, and you're gonna install your friends in power. What's hard is finding a way to work through issues without doing that. It's a pretty damn easy decision to just give yourself all the power you want

Actually, from experience, it can be one of the more difficult decisions. It rather hinges on how much they care about their reputations. Tim, it seems, has a pretty good one. The question is rather... how good is their information that Whale was a threat? I think that's the far more interesting point, here.

~B

[Evil Wolf]

If needed, the old Osiris forums are still fresh.

To whom is this offer being directed?

I would have to assume the legitimate, elected Delegate.

But on that note...

[Sandaoguo]

Not really. It's not hard to decide that you're not gonna give up your Delegate seat, and you're gonna install your friends in power. What's hard is finding a way to work through issues without doing that. It's a pretty damn easy decision to just give yourself all the power you want

Actually, from experience, it can be one of the more difficult decisions. It rather hinges on how much they care about their reputations. Tim, it seems, has a pretty good one. The question is rather... how good is their information that Whale was a threat? I think that's the far more interesting point, here.

~B

There's quite a difference between it being a hard decision to maybe tank your reputation, and a hard decision to make for the good of the region. Besides, I'm not sure I should really give weight to what you think about the ethics of coups

Anyways, can't see the election forums, but from what I can tell... Cormac is upset that a citizen supporting AJW resigned from the region following the election. This led to make claims that they were manipulating the election. The former citizen in question is also a member of TBH, and TBH had dispatched them as the ambassador to Osiris. Cormac demanded that AJW refuse to accept him as ambassador. AJW didn't, and so Cormac threw a temper tantrum. Prior to this, Cormac was fine serving in AJW's cabinet as Scribe of Integration, which kind of harms the argument that AJW is a threat to Osiris...

So as far as AJW is a "threat," he's a threat simply to Cormac's influence over Osiris, it seems. But, I mean, when the OFO successfully coup'd and installed themselves as the regime in Osiris, and nobody really did anything about it, then it stands to reason that Cormac and those who installed the OFO are gonna be dictators when things really don't go their way. You can't really just let a coup regime occupy the region and expect those same players to abide by democracy when democracy gets tough.

[Ikania]

Actually, from experience, it can be one of the more difficult decisions. It rather hinges on how much they care about their reputations. Tim, it seems, has a pretty good one. The question is rather... how good is their information that Whale was a threat? I think that's the far more interesting point, here.

~B

There's quite a difference between it being a hard decision to maybe tank your reputation, and a hard decision to make for the good of the region. Besides, I'm not sure I should really give weight to what you think about the ethics of coups

Anyways, can't see the election forums, but from what I can tell... Cormac is upset that a citizen supporting AJW resigned from the region following the election. This led to make claims that they were manipulating the election. The former citizen in question is also a member of TBH, and TBH had dispatched them as the ambassador to Osiris. Cormac demanded that AJW refuse to accept him as ambassador. AJW didn't, and so Cormac threw a temper tantrum. Prior to this, Cormac was fine serving in AJW's cabinet as Scribe of Integration, which kind of harms the argument that AJW is a threat to Osiris...

So as far as AJW is a "threat," he's a threat simply to Cormac's influence over Osiris, it seems. But, I mean, when the OFO successfully coup'd and installed themselves as the regime in Osiris, and nobody really did anything about it, then it stands to reason that Cormac and those who installed the OFO are gonna be dictators when things really don't go their way. You can't really just let a coup regime occupy the region and expect those same players to abide by democracy when democracy gets tough.

There was also the recall vote. Cormac motioned to impeach the Pharaoh, and was resoundingly crushed with a 90% margin against recall. That's mostly what led him to coup and throw democracy out the window.

[Todd McCloud]

To whom is this offer being directed?

I would have to assume the legitimate, elected Delegate.

But on that note...

Eh, as far as I know it belongs to the people of Osiris. It's archived, though.

[Valrifell]

There's quite a difference between it being a hard decision to maybe tank your reputation, and a hard decision to make for the good of the region. Besides, I'm not sure I should really give weight to what you think about the ethics of coups

Anyways, can't see the election forums, but from what I can tell... Cormac is upset that a citizen supporting AJW resigned from the region following the election. This led to make claims that they were manipulating the election. The former citizen in question is also a member of TBH, and TBH had dispatched them as the ambassador to Osiris. Cormac demanded that AJW refuse to accept him as ambassador. AJW didn't, and so Cormac threw a temper tantrum. Prior to this, Cormac was fine serving in AJW's cabinet as Scribe of Integration, which kind of harms the argument that AJW is a threat to Osiris...

So as far as AJW is a "threat," he's a threat simply to Cormac's influence over Osiris, it seems. But, I mean, when the OFO successfully coup'd and installed themselves as the regime in Osiris, and nobody really did anything about it, then it stands to reason that Cormac and those who installed the OFO are gonna be dictators when things really don't go their way. You can't really just let a coup regime occupy the region and expect those same players to abide by democracy when democracy gets tough.

There was also the recall vote. Cormac motioned to impeach the Pharaoh, and was resoundingly crushed with a 90% margin against recall. That's mostly what led him to coup and throw democracy out the window.

Of all the reasons to coup, this is below "for funzies"

[RiderSyl]

Just so you all know, I support this coup.

//walks away with suitcase of Cormacash//

[Queen Yuno]

After this, there'll be no more elections!
nuuu T_T