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The Means of Defense

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Unibot III
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The Means of Defense

Postby Unibot III » Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:57 pm

The Means of Defense

The advent of “Regional Officers” got moi thinking about the ebb and flow between the powers of delegates to maintain their incumbency and the ability of challengers to defeat incumbents.

Theoretical Assumptions

For the purposes of creating a theoretical framework for which geopolitical gameplay can then be traced with, imagine first: the means of defense, this is to say, the ways in which those in power in a region can prevent a involuntary seizure of said power.

The means of defense include:

  • Endorsements not shared with your competition.
  • Ejections.
  • Bans.
  • Communication (Tarting; the delegate also has mass- and welcome telegrams at their disposal).
  • Passwords.
  • Settings to limit access to the Regional Controls.
  • Foundership.
  • Dossier feeds to follow endorsement transfers and movement.

For the purposes of this framework, we will ignore “soft” means of defense like diplomacy and inter-regional agreements except to say they can be an auxiliary source of endorsements.

Then, we shall also consider the means of attack, this is to say, the ways in which those who do not yet hold control of a region can seize administrative power against the will of the incumbent.

The means of attack include:

  • Endorsements not shared with the incumbent.
  • Communication (tarting).
  • Reconnaissance.
  • WA Liberations – traditional, pre-emptive or “offensive” in nature.
  • Region Hawking (i.e., founding the region after its died.)

From this we can first assert that incumbents normally have greater means to maintain their control over a region than insurgents and challengers. This is not necessary a good or bad thing – let's move on.

Next, let's imagine the means of defense and the means of attack in a perpetual balancing act:

1. If the means of defense greatly outweighs the means of attack, this situation can be described as “the house always win” in the sense that it is incredibly difficult for incumbents to be removed involuntarily . In this scenario, this political stability comes with extreme risk: without the ability to remove incumbents, a region becomes all the more vulnerable to the decisions of incumbents with far less means to reverse their incumbency. This is a significant fact of NationStates: the stability of individual leaders and the risks this poses to their region are strongly related; or as a Spiderman fan might lament: with great power comes great responsibility. We'll call this scenario, the Authoritarian example.

2. If the means of attack greatly outweighs the means of defense, this situation can be described as “the house always loses” in the sense that it is incredibly difficult for incumbents to ward off challengers to their position because their challengers possess means to coerce their way to power that is not available in equal measure to those in the seat of power. We'll call this scenario, the Anarchy example - but as far as I am aware, it's a ideal that is entirely hypothetical since I can think of no situation where there is a surplus in the means of attack, that is to say, the challengers are afforded more opportunity than the incumbent to challenge the delegacy – a very temporary example occurs when a delegate runs out of Regional Influence and resigns their position but “officially” maintains office until update, since during that time it could be said that their challengers are in a better position to become delegate than they are.

3. If the means of attack are equal to the means of defense, this situation can be described as an equilibrium – it emerges in-game typically as a Codgerian Peacezone; but I'll call it the Democratic example. In this scenario, incumbents have just as many means as the delegate do in the pursuit of power – in practice this usually means that neither the delegate nor their challengers can use coercive measures but are instead reliant on persuasion. The Rejected Realms is a concrete example of this scenario.

We could think of the balance between the means of attack and the means of defense as a spectrum between these extremes I've described – the vast majority of regions sit between the authoritarian and the democratic ideals as I've set out above. Those regions which constitutionally constrain their means of defense (i.e., domestic criminal and administrative law) become more vulnerable to the means of attack but reduce the deficit between the means of attack and the means of defense which, as of consequence, lowers the risks of rogue incumbency and increases the opportunity for political change. While regions which do not constrain their means of defense will maintain a high deficit between the means of attack and the means of defense and, subsequently, more closely reflect that authoritarian ideal. It is largely impossible under the current structure of NationStates to maintain a surplus in the means of attack over the means of defense (the "Anarchy" ideal).

Now for the practical component of this discussion...

Macro- Implications

As far as NationStates is concerned, the game itself has continued with each major new gameplay feature to become increasingly authoritarian – each “radical” reform has greatly advanced the means of defense over the means of attack, followed by a period of “corrective” reform where minor additions and innovations aimed to correct what were perceived as grievances caused by these reforms. These corrective measures are often reversed by site administrators, if not just simply too small to make a difference in the grand scheme of things. We began NationStates in a perfect state of equilibrium since in 2002 there was no WA Delegate – the first major reform, the addition of a WA Delegate along with ejection and banning powers, gave us greater means of defense. Then came Regional Founders, perhaps the greatest means of defense. Then, Regional Passwords. Then, Regional Influence. Then, Dossiers. Then, In-game Eject & Ban buttons (previously it was far less intuitive to eject and ban players). Now, we are faced with a new feature which aims to make our regions safer: Regional Officers.

Each of these major reforms have caused “blowback” which have required corrective measures and innovation to find ways to either reduce the means of defense or expand the means of attack such as to ultimately address the growing deficit between the latter and the former. When the first series of griefings emerged and the spectacle of Francos Spain took hold, the Site Admins devised griefing rules and a cap on the number of bans that a delegate could give. Players also corrupted a part of the site's infrastructure to launch “puppetmaster” strikes against incumbents, using a trick (no longer available) where they could endorse players in an incumbent's region without joining the region. The admins also devised “warzone” regions where the means of defense were constrained (bans refresh). After the abolition of the griefing rules and the creation of “Regional Influence”, once again players suggested that the means of defense were too high, too injurious to the project of civil governance – the advent of “password raiding” (popularized by Macedon) inspired the creation of the WA Security Council and Liberation proposals which could act as a means of attack and a cap on one means of defense to redress present imbalances. Faced with an increasingly difficult environment for combating invaders and challenging incumbents, gameplayers relied on innovation as they had in the days of Puppetmaster: experimentation with the XML “Daily Dumps” discovered a recorded update order and provided the foundations of a “triggering” method which greatly advanced the accuracy of liberations and invasions, then the advent of safe switching (as supported by site administrators) helped advance each player's individual means of attack. Players also began experimenting and researching the growth of Influence to learn its vulnerabilities and hopefully exploit its weaknesses with “attrition warfare” where they could gain use their knowledge of the Influence rules as an advance and a means of attack and resistance against a determined incumbent.

Site Administrators, without much player consultation at all, reversed griefing rules, curtailed the possibility of “puppetmaster” techniques (known by future generations as magic endorsements) and after the “R/D Summit” (where administrators sat around and ignored players diligently for a couple of months) announced they would scramble the Daily Dumps and effectively cancel the practice of triggering.

What can be said is: each major reform has grown the deficit between the means of defense and the means of attack –

It's up to players to decide whether this trend is a good development or a bad development. Now for a senile, grumpy warning for future players: as the opportunity for incumbents to maintain their power increases, the avenues for redress become fewer and fewer. Dictatorial regimes face less credible challenges to their incumbency, liberations become rarer, occupations and insurgencies become more irreversible and more threatening. The business of geopolitics shrinks alongside the avenues for involuntary political change. I question whether this development is heading towards a direction that is good for the health and activity of the game itself.

Micro- Implications

If you're just a player wondering what to take away from this theory as far as their own region is concerned, you'll have to decide your own priorities as far as a government is concerned; your priorities will inform your opinion of how great the limits of the means of defense and the means of attack should be in your own region. Todd McCloud advocated in “The Necessity of Chaos”, for example, that political volatility creates positive and negative activity but for the most part is a good thing for a region because it inspires people to get involved, even if drama can detract from a regional experience for some players. After some thought, I would argue the focus on chaos is a bit of a misnomer. Political stability, is, in my view, good for a region in moderation because it's stability that gives players the confidence that their government will continue with successive governments and, therefore, is worth their participation, as far as a social, cultural or political capacity is concerned. A highly volatile region that changes governments at the drop of the hat doesn't offer a foundation for cultural and political growth because people who don't have confidence in a state will not necessarily develop an attachment to said state or see it worth their involvement or their loyalty. Political stability for a region is therefore a balancing act: you want an incumbency to be stable enough that residents are confident the state is a relatively permanent fixture but you also don't want an incumbent to be stable enough that they don't feel the need to contribute to the growth or the good governance of their region.

The game's expansion of the means of defense has brought about an increase of political stability; if you're concerned, as I am, with this trend, there are therefore some things to keep in mind. For smaller regions (more vulnerable to a traditional invasion), the concern with greater means of defense and greater stability is the risks of incumbency: invasions become more and more frequently sites of griefing and oppression with fewer means of recourse. For Game-Created Regions, the concern with greater means of defense and greater stability is both the greater threat a coup poses to these incumbents and the lack of an opportunity for political change and renewal.

In the face of these issues: smaller regions should reconsider the allowance of Regional Controls to WA Delegates and the use of Regional Passwords (which do little to deter invaders and make it more difficult for defenders to respond to invasions), while Game-Created Regions should encourage endorsement-trading, hold high endorsement caps, maintain an alert (and independent) body of security councilors and limit the use of the ejection and ban tools constitutionally with a Bill of Rights and a package of Constitutional Law which constrains the use of executive force.

Many Game-Created Regions have already used this theory in practice to their advantage.

Several regions like Osiris, the South Pacific and now Lazarus, have responded to a reputation/legacy of instability by implementing some or all of these suggestions. But no region is a better example of the success of this policy than the North Pacific. When I joined NationStates, the North Pacific was regarded as the most unstable Game-Created Region, when I left, it was regarded as the most stable. The difference in its reputation has been earned through a massive political and cultural transformation led by the ideas of its political leaders, Eluvatar, r3naissanc3r, McMasterdonia, Astarial (and many more), who deserve all of the credit for devising a new way of doing things in the North Pacific: encouraging not discouraging the diversity and proliferation of endorsements in the North Pacific through programs was especially novel, but the creation of a Security Council and a commitment to constitutional and democratic constraints on the power and stability of the executive have struck the kind of a balance of desirable political stability that I articulated above. They've largely eliminated the risks of political incumbency, curtailed the abuse of administrative power and bolstered regional confidence in the continuity of its state all the while restricting their incumbency's own confidence in their ability to continue as leader without maintaining the personal support of a wide and diverse coalition of local political supporters.

From the primary axiom that the powers available to the incumbency outweigh those of their challengers comes a second axiom that states that greater stability of one incumbent holds greater risk for the region as a whole – from this we can conclude with a final lesson: the security of a leader and the security of their region are not necessarily analogous. Take care, dear readers.
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:34 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Ayvari
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Postby Ayvari » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:13 pm

Long time, no see, Unibot. Does this very long post on a relevant subject which has caused quite a bit of controversy mean that you are returning to Gameplay?
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Postby Riftey » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:24 pm

Ayvari wrote:Long time, no see, Unibot. Does this very long post on a relevant subject which has caused quite a bit of controversy mean that you are returning to Gameplay?

Hopefully. Wouldn't mind seeing some defenders stick to their morals on here. aha.
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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:28 pm

Ayvari wrote:Long time, no see, Unibot. Does this very long post on a relevant subject which has caused quite a bit of controversy mean that you are returning to Gameplay?


Likely not, but I do try to keep up from a distance. I won't be around much in the coming months - I'm taking a vacation to Europe (whoohoo!).

But I had a brainwave and felt like writing something to share my thoughts. Please, just enjoy & critique. :P
Last edited by Unibot III on Tue Oct 13, 2015 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
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Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Postby RiderSyl » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:56 pm

Unibot III wrote:But I had a brainwave and felt like writing something to share my thoughts. Please, just enjoy & critique. :P


That brainwave was the old addiction calling you back ;)
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Postby Cora II » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:00 pm

*Suddenly Cora recall again what was reason to go raider*

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Postby Topid » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:13 pm

We do have something pretty close to your anarchy situation, and you were in charge of it. :P It is The Rejected Realms. And it used to be Lazarus. I would challenge the assumption that the lack of ability to defend the delegate position has ever lead to activity in those regions. Both are doing a lot better now, but for a big chunk of the time they were pretty bad at political change when they really could have used some.

At any rate, I miss you Uni! <3
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Postby Improving Wordiness » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:14 pm

Interesting game changes you are discussing Unibot. Not like you to be Modest yet you have not mentioned the roll you played in any of it.
You did contribute and champion safe switching and Daily Dumps both of which empowered invaders / taggers. The exploit known as "magic endorsements" was repaired and was never a valid tactic however you did contribute to administration taking action to repair it.
A deficit does indeed exist and you played no small part in it. I would go so far as to say I consider you to be invaderdom's secret weapon. Then again so is a teapot if they start hitting people with it.
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Postby Consular » Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:52 pm

Improving Wordiness wrote:I would go so far as to say I consider you to be invaderdom's secret weapon.

You'll find many invader types share that view! In particular, Unibot's ability to cause already fragile defender cooperation attempts to self destruct was remarkable. As was his ability to cause sometimes irreparable damage to the reputation of hardline defenders in GCRs.

At the same time though, his enthusiasm and ability led to some respectable numbers in terms of defender manpower that I think recent leaders have been unable to recreate.

Bit of a double edged sword I suppose.



I enjoyed this article, particularly the interest in how anti dynamic the game could become as powers increasingly entrench themselves.

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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:08 am

Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.
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Postby Gradea » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:12 am

Pierconium wrote:Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.

I would say the most stable GCRs would be TNP, TEP and TP. Not sure about which one would be the most stable though.. Possibly TP.

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:16 am

Gradea wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.

I would say the most stable GCRs would be TNP, TEP and TP. Not sure about which one would be the most stable though.. Possibly TP.

I believe most of the feeders are stable in their current iterations, but I tend to look at the potentiality of destabilisation as a factor. Yes, the North Pacific is very stable but they still maintain a system that allows for the potential of destabilization. A rogue Delegacy would be temporary within TNP because of the security council but the possibility of havoc still exists.
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Postby Riftey » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:51 am

Gradea wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.

I would say the most stable GCRs would be TNP, TEP and TP. Not sure about which one would be the most stable though.. Possibly TP.

Look I can't say i'm too familiar with how TNP upholds themselves but they have got to be doing something right to not have had something incompetent that I may remember happen during my 2 years on this.

Now I'm not making accusations of a lack of care from anyone; But I feel as if TNP would be just as vulnerable as TEP to a Coup or something Doesn't matter that they're endorsement count is astounding. We aren't exactly going to see too many coups that happen through brute force. It's always some shoddy cunt gets elected or put in the delegate seat.

I guess what would make a Feeder/Sinker stable is the amount the delegacy changes. Of course Id feel The Pacific would most likely be the most secure of them all; Followed by Balder. I feel Balder to rather secure myself down to the fact the delegacy really doesn't change - plus Rach is fun so why would dickheads play around with her? No? From there I guess you can consider any other GCR fairly even excluding TWP which I feel would be at bottom.

That's not an attempt to be rude. I wanna be clear about that. I'm not trying to have a dig at the members of TWP at all; Rather fond of Darkesia 'n' Co myself. Of course there is a bad apple (Mwah) but they're scattered everywhere regardless and judging the place for that would be a bit silly. Now my reasoning behind placing them last is really rather simple - They have an olg group of nations who like to dictate the place yet do not wish to actually run the delegacy. As such we see these hasty appointments which end in a laughable way.

Not to mention any region that sees Gradea and I as "Security risks" and teaches the new nations as such really must be paranoid. If they're that jumpy you'd think they'd have picked up on Russo. Eh. What would I know? ^-^
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:42 am

Pierconium wrote:Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.


In 2005 that would have gotten many people going :rofl:

Back then TNP was the Osiris of NS
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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:45 am

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Lots of nice illustrations but it left me saying 'so what?' at the end.

Also, labelling the North Pacific as the most stable GCR is a bit of a stretch.


In 2005 that would have gotten many people going :rofl:

Back then TNP was the Osiris of NS

Yes, I am somewhat familiar with TNP's past issues. But, being 'better' now by comparison isn't the same as stating it is the most stable GCR.
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Postby Consular » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:37 am

I think TNP is remarkably stable these days.

Of course, whether 'stability' is entirely a good thing is arguable. A region can be too stable. ;)

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:40 am

Consular wrote:I think TNP is remarkably stable these days.

Of course, whether 'stability' is entirely a good thing is arguable. A region can be too stable. ;)

Oh, I agree. The North is very stable at present. That doesn't mean that the next Delegate can't appoint several mid-range Influence non-Security Council nations as ROs with Border Controls after the next election and cause a great deal of damage. The system is stable but it allows for instability.

This is generally true for most of the GCRs.
Last edited by Pierconium on Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

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Postby Consular » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:07 am

That would be because, in my mind anyway, stability is a product of individuals, not of any particular system.

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:18 am

Consular wrote:That would be because, in my mind anyway, stability is a product of individuals, not of any particular system.

Unless the system is such that ultimate authority rests within the hands of the Delegate and the Delegate nation is the primary point of Influence collection.

Within The Pacific, for example, the only other nation that has any significant level of Influence outside of the Delegate is the Viceroy, who would take over in the unfortunate event that the Delegate went inactive. But, that nation maintains a distance in endorsements and would be removed from the region if that distance were breached in an uncontrolled manner (voluntarily in all likelihood, by force if necessary). This loss of Influence in the Delegate nation would not be an issue since there are several mid-range (50-60 SPDR) puppets within the region that could be given Border Control to handle any invading forces that thought to take advantage while the Delegate's Influence levels restabilized. These nations would not have sufficient Influence to remove the Delegate, even after the loss calculated from the removal of the Viceroy.

Therefore, there is no potential upheaval in the Pacifican system. If the Delegate nation steps down then the secondary nation immediately takes its place and the process begins again without chaos or havoc. And yet, the Pacific has proven itself to be quite active internally of late even under a stable system.
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Postby Solorni » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:45 am

Having transfers of leadership, particularly of the delegacy is inherently unstable. This does not make them bad, but it is an aspect of democracy, particularly in the Game Created Regions and there is definitely a measure of instability necessary to facilitate a thriving democracy without it going sideways. The reason why The North Pacific has been more stable than it was is before not because of these inherent systems but because no one elected as delegate has attempted it to coup it. It's not because of their WA restrictions that they have had two rather older players who do not have a history of couping regions become elected delegate recently. For any democratic Game Created Region to function, especially with what is at stake for the delegacies, there will always be a strong element an old guard who essentially vet and try their best to safeguard the region. Thus, and especially with NS regions I think there tends to be an element of old guard biases.

Anyway, the point is that delegate transfers and elections are inherently an element of instability, even if this is element is tempered via laws or oligarchic type controls. This is not to say this instability is a bad thing either. Thus, TP is inherently more stable than TNP on this basis.
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Postby Consular » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:52 am

I agree broadly with both of the above posts, which is where this point came in:

Consular wrote:Of course, whether 'stability' is entirely a good thing is arguable. A region can be too stable. ;)

I think a tad of instability is not a terrible thing. Stability is too often the rallying cry of regimes that actually just want control, centered entirely on themselves. It is often not too distant from its familiar cousin; stagnation. Democracies are always going to be inherently more unstable because of their dynamic nature, and this is not a bad thing.

But I also think TNP is more stable long term than TP. Because, in TNP's environment it is the system itself, the legal contruct, which is stable. It is protected by high levels of and diversely located influence that make it all but impossible for a single nation to completely change the region without consent. TP's system is stable in the sense that the Delegate cannot be replaced without their consent, but unstable in the sense that the Delegate can do whatever pleases them at any given moment in time without consequence.
Last edited by Consular on Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:03 am

Consular wrote:I agree broadly with both of the above posts, which is where this point came in:

Consular wrote:Of course, whether 'stability' is entirely a good thing is arguable. A region can be too stable. ;)

I think a tad of instability is not a terrible thing. Stability is too often the rallying cry of regimes that actually just want control, centered entirely on themselves. It is often not too distant from its familiar cousin; stagnation. Democracies are always going to be inherently more unstable because of their dynamic nature, and this is not a bad thing.

But I also think TNP is more stable long term than TP. Because, in TNP's environment it is the system itself, the legal contruct, which is stable. It is protected by high levels of and diversely located influence that make it all but impossible for a single nation to completely change the region without consent. TP's system is stable in the sense that the Delegate cannot be replaced without their consent, but unstable in the sense that the Delegate can do whatever pleases them at any given moment in time without consequence.

Having a Delegate nation that can do as it pleases within the GCRs is a function of the game mechanics. Nations choose to endorse the Delegate or they do not. If they do, then they consent not only their support for the Delegate's representation of their voice within the World Assembly, but also their security and the stability of the region as a whole. If a GCR Delegate decides to ignore this trust and causes unwarranted and unnecessary chaos then it is within the rights of the nations within the region to withdraw their endorsement of that nation, thus enacting change.

A stable government does not equate to a stagnant one, regardless of the propaganda that many here like to spew forth on a regular basis. Just as chaos does not necessarily breed activity, and even when it does it is typically short-lived. Stability, on the other hand, while not as flashy as a coup or a rogue Delegacy, can provide a community with a grounded basis from which to carry out their internal affairs without the threat of upheaval or imposed change from abroad. The Pacific, again as an example, is currently undergoing a renaissance of sorts in that the internal structures are expanding to include a wider swath of the region as a whole while also maintaining tradition and stability on the larger stage. This flies in the face of the anti-stability paradigm in that it has maintained a stable governing system for over 12 years and can still remain active.

EDIT: To reply to your edit - TNP has proven that it is not more stable longterm than The Pacific on numerous occasions. Even today, if the Delegate nation decided to ignore the imposed off-site governmental apparatus then it could do so and with the assistance of just one or two members of the Security Council (or indeed any of the multitude of nations they have floating outside the SC with high numbers of endorsements) they could hold the region against the 'old guard' forces for a considerable length of time. That can not happen in The Pacific. The very definition of stable contradicts this premise.
Last edited by Pierconium on Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Consular
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Postby Consular » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:14 am

Pierconium wrote:Having a Delegate nation that can do as it pleases within the GCRs is a function of the game mechanics. Nations choose to endorse the Delegate or they do not. If they do, then they consent not only their support for the Delegate's representation of their voice within the World Assembly, but also their security and the stability of the region as a whole. If a GCR Delegate decides to ignore this trust and causes unwarranted and unnecessary chaos then it is within the rights of the nations within the region to withdraw their endorsement of that nation, thus enacting change.

A stable government does not equate to a stagnant one, regardless of the propaganda that many here like to spew forth on a regular basis. Just as chaos does not necessarily breed activity, and even when it does it is typically short-lived. Stability, on the other hand, while not as flashy as a coup or a rogue Delegacy, can provide a community with a grounded basis from which to carry out their internal affairs without the threat of upheaval or imposed change from abroad. The Pacific, again as an example, is currently undergoing a renaissance of sorts in that the internal structures are expanding to include a wider swath of the region as a whole while also maintaining tradition and stability on the larger stage. This flies in the face of the anti-stability paradigm in that it has maintained a stable governing system for over 12 years and can still remain active.

EDIT: To reply to your edit - TNP has proven that it is not more stable longterm than The Pacific on numerous occasions. Even today, if the Delegate nation decided to ignore the imposed off-site governmental apparatus then it could do so and with the assistance of just one or two members of the Security Council (or indeed any of the multitude of nations they have floating outside the SC with high numbers of endorsements) they could hold the region against the 'old guard' forces for a considerable length of time. That can not happen in The Pacific. The very definition of stable contradicts this premise.

My edit only added the word "broadly". :P

I don't entirely disagree with you. But the very fact that you refer to a renaissance I think implies the Pacific was not doing the best prior to your ascension to the Delegate's seat. It was stagnant. As for why this is no longer the case... Well, a product of individuals. You and your current government have simply done better than the previous I suppose.

See, just as the Delegate of TNP could go rogue, the Delegate of TP could as well, and there would be nothing to stop them. It very much CAN happen in The Pacific. The only /realistic/ threat to a GCR comes from a legitimate Delegate's misbehaviour. It is much harder for the Delegate of TNP to misbehave, than the Delegate of TP. Thus, TNP is arguably more 'stable'.

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Pierconium
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Postby Pierconium » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:20 am

Consular wrote:
Pierconium wrote:Having a Delegate nation that can do as it pleases within the GCRs is a function of the game mechanics. Nations choose to endorse the Delegate or they do not. If they do, then they consent not only their support for the Delegate's representation of their voice within the World Assembly, but also their security and the stability of the region as a whole. If a GCR Delegate decides to ignore this trust and causes unwarranted and unnecessary chaos then it is within the rights of the nations within the region to withdraw their endorsement of that nation, thus enacting change.

A stable government does not equate to a stagnant one, regardless of the propaganda that many here like to spew forth on a regular basis. Just as chaos does not necessarily breed activity, and even when it does it is typically short-lived. Stability, on the other hand, while not as flashy as a coup or a rogue Delegacy, can provide a community with a grounded basis from which to carry out their internal affairs without the threat of upheaval or imposed change from abroad. The Pacific, again as an example, is currently undergoing a renaissance of sorts in that the internal structures are expanding to include a wider swath of the region as a whole while also maintaining tradition and stability on the larger stage. This flies in the face of the anti-stability paradigm in that it has maintained a stable governing system for over 12 years and can still remain active.

EDIT: To reply to your edit - TNP has proven that it is not more stable longterm than The Pacific on numerous occasions. Even today, if the Delegate nation decided to ignore the imposed off-site governmental apparatus then it could do so and with the assistance of just one or two members of the Security Council (or indeed any of the multitude of nations they have floating outside the SC with high numbers of endorsements) they could hold the region against the 'old guard' forces for a considerable length of time. That can not happen in The Pacific. The very definition of stable contradicts this premise.

My edit only added the word "broadly". :P

I don't entirely disagree with you. But the very fact that you refer to a renaissance I think implies the Pacific was not doing the best prior to your ascension to the Delegate's seat. It was stagnant. As for why this is no longer the case... Well, a product of individuals. You and your current government have simply done better than the previous I suppose.

See, just as the Delegate of TNP could go rogue, the Delegate of TP could as well, and there would be nothing to stop them. It very much CAN happen in The Pacific. The only /realistic/ threat to a GCR comes from a legitimate Delegate's misbehaviour. It is much harder for the Delegate of TNP to misbehave, than the Delegate of TP. Thus, TNP is arguably more 'stable'.

All regions, regardless of governmental construct, have ups and downs in regards to activity. The premise that is being put forth here and in other places is that the general trend within a 'stable' region is downwards, I simply state that this is incorrect. While it is true that there have been periods of inactivity within the Pacific, it is also true within TNP and the other GCRs, and is generally true NS-wide each and every summer, but that does not mean that the regions which are more stable have deeper troughs necessarily.

As to the idea of a 'rogue' Delegate in The Pacific, this is untrue. The definition of what makes a Delegate rogue is often determined by the offsite government. Since the Delegate in The Pacific is an autocrat, they determine the structure of the offsite government. If the Delegate nation of The Pacific chose to dissolve the New Pacific Order tomorrow it would be within its rights as Delegate to do so, and it has been done before with no upheaval, no 'rogue' status, and no havoc. The original NPO transitioned into the People's Republic of the Pacific and then returned to its roots as the NPO without issue.
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Tell me what you regard as your greatest strength, so I will know how best to undermine you; tell me of your greatest fear, so I will know which I must force you to face; tell me what you cherish most, so I will know what to take from you; and tell me what you crave, so that I might deny you…

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Solorni
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Postby Solorni » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:31 am

In most autocracies, the success and direction of it really depends on the person in charge. I was going to say the Russian Empire was a perfect example of this.... when I realized that -all- Russian history with brief exceptions is an example of this. It's the classic question of which system was better.
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