The Black Hawks | Still Winning

[Comfed]

#StopRaiding

Brb gonna go raid something really quick.

Update's over Vara you missed it.

[Kyorgia]

lol what a bullshit statement. No one should be shocked by TBHs infringement on GCR sovereignty by now.

[Comfed]

lol what a bullshit statement. No one should be shocked by TBHs infringement on GCR sovereignty by now.

If that's the case, then I would like every TITO tactical officer ever to be PNGed for all the spying XKI does in TBH.

[Unibot III]

Why not just own up to it at this point? I can't help but feel this statement is more about isolating diplomatic fallout with some of TBH's GCR partners and allies.

[Lord Dominator]

Why not just own up to it at this point?

You're thinking from the perspective that the actual actions were authorized by Council in the first place.

[Unibot III]

Why not just own up to it at this point?

You're thinking from the perspective that the actual actions were authorized by Council in the first place.

In seventeen years of NS, I'm not sure there's ever been an attack on a GCR that's ever been officially authorized. Were any of the other attacks on TSP by TBH authorized by Council? I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't know the answer - I'm retired and cranky.

EDIT: I think the time that TBH publicly declared "Let's fuck sh*t up" probably counted as an official authorization of a TSP coup in retrospect.

[Lord Dominator]

You're thinking from the perspective that the actual actions were authorized by Council in the first place.

In seventeen years of NS, I'm not sure there's ever been an attack on a GCR that's ever been officially authorized. Were any of the other attacks on TSP by TBH authorized by Council? I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't know the answer - I'm retired and cranky.

This one was not, my understanding is that the Red Phone ones were technically not (though I'm not clear on the precise operations of that, and his position in TBH likely makes that distinction moot), and anything other than that I have no information.

[Sail Nation]

We do remember here that we are talking about a WA proposal that was written with a pro-defender stance as a pro-raider stance would never get through the SC. I voted against the resolution, simply because it is trying to remove the truth from the equation so that a prominent raider can be commended.

On the statement: After reading TSP's statement, I believe that it is some fairly experienced Hawks who did the posting, so they either should have known better (unlikely, considering their experience), or more likely the council turned a blind eye to them or simply failed to act upon it, knowing that it would be to their benefit. It was only when TSP released their statement that this statement was released. I disapprove of all attempts to use raiding or stealth tactics to influence the SC.

Finally, I do see where the Hawks are coming from here, and I do respect them (one of the possible suspects is also the Speaker of the legislature that I am in on one of my puppets, and from what I've seen they're fairly nice and friendly), but I believe that these tactics should not be tolerated, as we do need to keep this game fun and fair for all.

[Frenchy II]

I think this was a good way to handle this from The Black Hawks. I'm sure there was no actual attack on regional sovereignty here from the top of the organization. I would expect them to be much better at doing so if that were the case.

edit: these are my personal views and are not intended to be representative of lily

[Kyorgia]

lol what a bullshit statement. No one should be shocked by TBHs infringement on GCR sovereignty by now.

If that's the case, then I would like every TITO tactical officer ever to be PNGed for all the spying XKI does in TBH.

But thats actually good

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

In seventeen years of NS, I'm not sure there's ever been an attack on a GCR that's ever been officially authorized. Were any of the other attacks on TSP by TBH authorized by Council? I'm not asking rhetorically, I don't know the answer - I'm retired and cranky.

This one was not, my understanding is that the Red Phone ones were technically not (though I'm not clear on the precise operations of that, and his position in TBH likely makes that distinction moot), and anything other than that I have no information.

Can confirm that me griping about tsp and wishing emptily for their demise while ignoring mcmannia's shenanigans in the background was not explicitly council approved. Because, yknow, i didn't actually do anything but complain and daydream. In fact, a whole ass court case in TSP couldn't prove I actually did anything , hence my ban being overturned while other were upheld. Turns out that bitching without any intention of acting ain't an attack. Server was known to council, tho. I'm not aware of any other non archaic "attacks on TSP" offhand?? Am I forgetting something?

Other than that, can confirm unibot is stupidly wrong about gcr attacks vis à vis the extremely premeditated attack on TP. Remember that one? Past that we generally have decided as Council to stay out of things, like laz and others.

[Drop Your Pants]

Does TBH go for demotions these days (I know some defender groups used to do them, not sure about raider) or is it more a slap on the wrist and don't get caught again?

[RiderSyl]

Does TBH go for demotions these days (I know some defender groups used to do them, not sure about raider) or is it more a slap on the wrist and don't get caught again?

i am also interested in this being answered

[Twobagger]

If that's the case, then I would like every TITO tactical officer ever to be PNGed for all the spying XKI does in TBH.

Punished once again for something I didn't even do. Smh Comfed.

[Unibot III]

This one was not, my understanding is that the Red Phone ones were technically not (though I'm not clear on the precise operations of that, and his position in TBH likely makes that distinction moot), and anything other than that I have no information.

Can confirm that me griping about tsp and wishing emptily for their demise while ignoring mcmannia's shenanigans in the background was not explicitly council approved. Because, yknow, i didn't actually do anything but complain and daydream. In fact, a whole ass court case in TSP couldn't prove I actually did anything , hence my ban being overturned while other were upheld. Turns out that bitching without any intention of acting ain't an attack. Server was known to council, tho. I'm not aware of any other non archaic "attacks on TSP" offhand?? Am I forgetting something?

Other than that, can confirm unibot is stupidly wrong about gcr attacks vis à vis the extremely premeditated attack on TP. Remember that one? Past that we generally have decided as Council to stay out of things, like laz and others.

Actually that’s fair, there *were* a lot of publicly authorized attacks on Francos’ NPO regime. Not sure if that’s very relevant here, but it’s true. My point was usually orgs don’t take credit for subverting GCRs - TBH rarely has, most don’t.

I think a punishment would probably help substantiate your org’s claim to ignorance.

[Goobergunchia]

Actually that’s fair, there *were* a lot of publicly authorized attacks on Francos’ NPO regime. Not sure if that’s very relevant here, but it’s true. My point was usually orgs don’t take credit for subverting GCRs - TBH rarely has, most don’t.

Considering that said regime was not the legitimate regional government, it hardly falls in the same category. One could say the same thing about UPS Rail and Great Bight's delegacies in TNP.

[Unibot III]

Actually that’s fair, there *were* a lot of publicly authorized attacks on Francos’ NPO regime. Not sure if that’s very relevant here, but it’s true. My point was usually orgs don’t take credit for subverting GCRs - TBH rarely has, most don’t.

Considering that said regime was not the legitimate regional government, it hardly falls in the same category. One could say the same thing about UPS Rail and Great Bight's delegacies in TNP.

I was being overly generous. I didn't become a Francoist during your absense, Goob!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

I'm not *that* old, we railed against the inabilty or unwillingness (depending on who you believe, as to whether acts of agression were rogue or just under a layer of plausible deniability, where not provably the latter) of late-life Ivan and others in leadership to keep Perg and friends on a leash and out of our damn business, ops, regions, and chats.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

While I'm sure TBH leadership probably couldn't be stuffed to undertake any kind of action like this in any feeder, nevermind TSP, it would be a lot more believable if the same TBH leadership was prepared to issue or enforce publicly visible consequences against those responsible.

[Nova Vandalia]

"I too am upset at this encroachment on Regional Sovereignty,so I will also come in here and tell you how to run your region, and criticize you all until you do as I ask, as though there is a distinction between trying to control a region and ...trying to control a region"

[RiderSyl]

"I too am upset at this encroachment on Regional Sovereignty,so I will also come in here and tell you how to run your region, and criticize you all until you do as I ask, as though there is a distinction between trying to control a region and ...trying to control a region"

those who seek accountability are really just trying to control your region!

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

"I too am upset at this encroachment on Regional Sovereignty,so I will also come in here and tell you how to run your region, and criticize you all until you do as I ask, as though there is a distinction between trying to control a region and ...trying to control a region"

I was once stood down from an org dedicated to overthrowing a feeder, for the crime of griping about how I wished to see a feeder overthrown, largely by other people in the same chat, so.

But that's some ooooold salt, by now.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

"I too am upset at this encroachment on Regional Sovereignty,so I will also come in here and tell you how to run your region, and criticize you all until you do as I ask, as though there is a distinction between trying to control a region and ...trying to control a region"

Don't be ridiculous, Nova. We may all be here to tell TBH how to run their region, but at no point since the statement went up has any of us shown that we actually care about the enroachment of regional sovereignty.

[WayNeacTia]

While I'm sure TBH leadership probably couldn't be stuffed to undertake any kind of action like this in any feeder, nevermind TSP, it would be a lot more believable if the same TBH leadership was prepared to issue or enforce publicly visible consequences against those responsible.

Consequences for what? Manipulating polls? Give me a break.

[Nova Vandalia]

"I too am upset at this encroachment on Regional Sovereignty, so I will also come in here and tell you how to run your region, and criticize you all until you do as I ask, as though there is a distinction between trying to control a region and ...trying to control a region"

those who seek accountability are really just trying to control your region!

I don't think being lecture on accountability by someone from Lily, is really necessary. You lot are the least accountable region because some how you lot got both sides of R/D to trust you while y'all hand information to each side. XD If we should have anyone accountable it should be wishy washy folx like y'all.