Illegal Script Usage

[The Forsworn Knights]

You know, even as someone who never really liked the TBR organisation, I used to respect their leader's for creating such a vibrant and powerful raiding community. Then I got a campaign telegram to liberate them and looked this thread up, now I see them less as an organisation celebrating an unpopular part of gameplay, and more as an organisation celebrating an unpopular part of gameplay run by cheaters.

[Sedgistan]

Best news I've heard all day. TBR are always smirky and smug until something bites them on their ass.m

Given your record, *** 3 day ban for gloating/trolling. ***

[Sedgistan]

Now, if you could only delete some puppets of DOS player Gilneas I've found on this site....

TG me if you have questions and I'll tell you what puppets I believe they are.

Please report them via Getting Help Request, and we'll look into them.

[Anumia]

I believe Onderkelkia and I'm not sure what LKE was supposed to do if Bob Moran was doing this on his own.

Although I will state that I don't think this whole illegal scripting business is -that- big of a deal. I already view the whole script system as wrong and the site pretty much opened pandoras box already.

I would hazard a guess that this is not the place to beat that drum.

Well done to the Moderation team (and any who assisted them) for uncovering this incident of cheating. Given the response by OnderKelkia, I would hope the investigation included or if ongoing will include consideration as to the culpability of a whole region for the actions of a single nation who was neither the Founder or Delegate, but can understand as well the difficulty in creating and applying punishments of appropriate measure to fit the crime and act as a deterrent.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Wait..
"exceeded a population of 8 billion?" is you're nation DEATed when that happens?

No, they just mean he had managed to keep his nation long enough to grow to 8 billion without attracting the mods' attention once again and getting DEATed

Plenty of nations are already beyond 8 bill

Actually, Aeazer had been let back into NationStates with a gifted nation sometime in early-mid 2009, was repeatedly reported by several players during that year and absolutely nothing was done despite the construction of a 150 nation region "The Aeazen Combine" somewhere around the turn of 2009-2010. The nation did not cease to exist until the 18th of July, 2013, during the Osirian coup. I have literally no idea why he was ignored for so long, although it probably has something to do with not being underneath the microscope of this particular subforum until that coup.

[North East Somerset]

I am familiar with the LKE recruitment situation, and I am absolutely certain that the only automated recruitment undertaken by the LKE was through the API by Onder personally.

I don't have a shred of a doubt that Bob Moran was acting independently of the LKE State, probably in collaboration with Frak if he is the source of the scripts, and possibly therefore with the intention of deliberately damaging the LKE as Frak hated the LKE.

Obviously this is a tough situation, but punishing the LKE collectively for the acts of a rogue individual is clearly unfair. Bob Moran, whom incidentally has mysteriously disappeared for the past 5 days, has been banned from the LKE.

[Weed]

No, they just mean he had managed to keep his nation long enough to grow to 8 billion without attracting the mods' attention once again and getting DEATed

Plenty of nations are already beyond 8 bill

Actually, Aeazer had been let back into NationStates with a gifted nation sometime in early-mid 2009, was repeatedly reported by several players during that year and absolutely nothing was done despite the construction of a 150 nation region "The Aeazen Combine" somewhere around the turn of 2009-2010. The nation did not cease to exist until the 18th of July, 2013, during the Osirian coup. I have literally no idea why he was ignored for so long, although it probably has something to do with not being underneath the microscope of this particular subforum until that coup.

He was DOS? Totally raided with them a few times and had no clue.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Actually, Aeazer had been let back into NationStates with a gifted nation sometime in early-mid 2009, was repeatedly reported by several players during that year and absolutely nothing was done despite the construction of a 150 nation region "The Aeazen Combine" somewhere around the turn of 2009-2010. The nation did not cease to exist until the 18th of July, 2013, during the Osirian coup. I have literally no idea why he was ignored for so long, although it probably has something to do with not being underneath the microscope of this particular subforum until that coup.

He was DOS? Totally raided with them a few times and had no clue.

Aeazer was made DoS in the pre-influence era, so it's been more than 10 years now.

[Mallorea and Riva]

That explains how they got into Sapphire.

Good riddance to scum, I guess.

Wasn't Mall heading up that particular operation?

Indeed.

[Anumia]

If The Black Riders move to a new region, will they be allowed to conduct a Telegram campaign to get existing nations in the region to move?

[Sedgistan]

If The Black Riders move to a new region, will they be allowed to conduct a Telegram campaign to get existing nations in the region to move?

They're prohibited from sending any recruitment telegrams. All telegrams encouraging a nation to move regions must be labelled as recruitment telegrams.

[Medwedian Democratic Federation]

DELETE THE BLACK RIDERS ENTIRELY AND BAN ALL MEMBERS PERMANENTLY!

I would see it as a fair action of punishment.

[SillyString]

If The Black Riders move to a new region, will they be allowed to conduct a Telegram campaign to get existing nations in the region to move?

They're prohibited from sending any recruitment telegrams. All telegrams encouraging a nation to move regions must be labelled as recruitment telegrams.

Even telegrams to nations in your own region who have joined your region's military to contact them about a military deployment if they don't read the forums? That kind of all?

[Anumia]

If The Black Riders move to a new region, will they be allowed to conduct a Telegram campaign to get existing nations in the region to move?

They're prohibited from sending any recruitment telegrams. All telegrams encouraging a nation to move regions must be labelled as recruitment telegrams.

Just to be crystal clear: if, say, a Delegate mass-TG was sent to say something akin to, "Hey all so because of stuff going on, we will all be moving to (region) so we can have a Founder again, etc" would that also be prohibited?

Apologies for nitpicking your response but I figure absolute clarity before anyone over there tries anything would be preferred. I have no idea what TBR's plans are - they may not choose to refound - but typically refounding efforts come with a Telegram campaign and typically such a Telegram campaign to my knowledge is not considered recruitment (at least not in the usual sense).

Obviously the prohibition on recruiting -new- nations (as in any nation not already native to TBR) would carry over to their new region if they make one.

[Sedgistan]

They're prohibited from sending any recruitment telegrams. All telegrams encouraging a nation to move regions must be labelled as recruitment telegrams.

Just to be crystal clear: if, say, a Delegate mass-TG was sent to say something akin to, "Hey all so because of stuff going on, we will all be moving to (region) so we can have a Founder again, etc" would that also be prohibited?

Yes. (And yes to the other question you asked too).

[Todd McCloud]

He was DOS? Totally raided with them a few times and had no clue.

Do we have a list of folks who have been DOS'd that is readily available to the NS public?

[Solorni]

Just to be crystal clear: if, say, a Delegate mass-TG was sent to say something akin to, "Hey all so because of stuff going on, we will all be moving to (region) so we can have a Founder again, etc" would that also be prohibited?

Yes. (And yes to the other question you asked too).

That doesn't seem very sensible. Is that a quirk of the rules that needs to/should be fixed?

[SillyString]

Just to be crystal clear: if, say, a Delegate mass-TG was sent to say something akin to, "Hey all so because of stuff going on, we will all be moving to (region) so we can have a Founder again, etc" would that also be prohibited?

Yes. (And yes to the other question you asked too).

In all cases? Not just TBR?

And a military minister alerting their troops via TG about a deployment would also have to be marked as recruitment?

If so, that's... a pretty awful ruling. We encourage region members to turn OFF recruitment TGs so they're not continually pestered by spam, and requiring them to turn it on to participate in military gameplay would be a huge step backwards.

[Josh Sebastian]

The Imperial Government of The Land of Kings and Emperors did not authorize Bob Moran to use any script/recruitment program, nor had we any knowledge that he had access to such tools. Bob Moran was made Interior Minister in early March of this year in recognition of the valuable input he made during our community forum restructuring; the review of our recruitment and integration telegrams, and his supposedly manual recruitment efforts. He was a friendly member of the community, always on the look out to help our newer members, and suggest ideas for the betterment of our community. Which is why, his involvement in these is a great shock and dismay to us all.

Prior to this incident, he did not manifest that he was using a script. Nor did he ask us if we were interested in one. We already had a functional API system in place (rule-compliant and run by the personal nation of the LKE Emperor), so his supposed manual recruitment contributions were only to augment our functional API.

I myself made puppet nations during Bob's stint as Interior Minister, and they received telegrams from Bob's LKE nation which appeared to have been manually sent. That coupled by the fact that he was online for long hours and active in our RMB gave no reason for us to suspect that he was using any script/automated program. Unless you had the appropriate technical tools and know-how, it would be near impossible to detect that he was using an illegal script, without our knowledge and authorization.

Undeniably, had we known that he was using an illegal recruitment program, or at the very least intended to, we would have taken it upon ourselves to remove him from our region and report the same to the appropriate authorities. All the more that we now know he was working with Anur-Sanur/Frak, who has previously orchestrated several malicious campaigns against the LKE.

But now, to learn that we too must be penalized for the actions of another, which we had no knowledge of nor have we endorsed, is a great disservice to due process. To ban an entire region, on account of one nation, acting independently on his own, is a rather unfair and unjust ruling. We have struggled at all times to ensure that our operations are in keeping with game rules and regulations. The moderators themselves can examine the API system we have operated by the personal nation of Onder Kelkia to know this.

To say that the community needs to be punished, simply because we benefited from the illegal acts of another sets a dangerous precedent and is clearly in disregard of facts which deserve better scrutiny. What kind of malicious attacks can we expect then from detractors, who need only to simply slip in an enemy region, use an illegal script without their knowledge or consent, for the eventuality that, that region will be outrightly banned by the moderators?

We remain committed to having this matter resolved, not only to clear our name from this, but also to ensure a fair and competitive environment for recruitment for everyone. We are open to working with the moderation team to investigate further on this matter, in the hope that a full and fairer accounting be done.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Although I have no doubt that those working with Frak were working with him knowing he was a DoS, don't you think it'd be wise to have a list of DoS players (or at least those that have actually done something of relevance) so people can avoid working with them? The alternative could be someone getting hit for working with someone they didn't know they shouldn't be, which doesn't seem so fair.

[Old Hope]

Yes. (And yes to the other question you asked too).

In all cases? Not just TBR?

And a military minister alerting their troops via TG about a deployment would also have to be marked as recruitment?

If so, that's... a pretty awful ruling. We encourage region members to turn OFF recruitment TGs so they're not continually pestered by spam, and requiring them to turn it on to participate in military gameplay would be a huge step backwards.

The rules say:

A telegram that encourages the recipient to move regions is a recruitment telegram, and must be marked by checking the appropriate box before clicking Send.

I am not a mod, but I think the answer to the military deployment is yes. This may need further discussion elsewhere, I think, because I believe no region has labeled such telegrams as recruitment in the past. And because it has severe effects as well.

Edit: Oh, and all of those who now recruit attackers(or defenders) to The Black Riders better have to be made aware of this. If they only see "We can finally raid them" without knowing about the restrictions issued at that region...

[Kazmr]

May I inquire, just because I'm curious, what would happen in a scenario where, say, several of the still surviving leaders and members of TBR found a new region? They call it 'The Red Horde' or some name they like, disavow the history of TBR. Would they be allowed to recruit, or is anyone involved in the leadership of The Black Rider currently prohibited from any sort of recruiting for the time being?

[Sedgistan]

If we consider it an attempt to evade the recruitment block, then it would be applied to them too.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

If we consider it an attempt to evade the recruitment block, then it would be applied to them too.

That's...somewhat nutty, don't you think? Is no one from TBR now allowed to recruit for another region? Surely the people you need to punish are only the ones who have actually done something wrong, rather than the region as a whole.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

That's...somewhat nutty, don't you think? Is no one from TBR now allowed to recruit for another region? Surely the people you need to punish are only the ones who have actually done something wrong, rather than the region as a whole.

Well, it depends, if TBR actively used it for recruitment with knowledge that it was illegal or they didn't but should have asked if it looked peculiar, the people who allowed it should also be punished.
And, normally a Region would know if people were being illegally recruited through illegal code, so I assume(But I could be wrong) that the TBR leadership knew it was illegal and allowed it anyway.

But the TBR leadership are not all responsible for the actions of every member. People are asked to do things independently, like recruit.