NationStates

The Church of Satan wrote:She's the levelheaded, rational person that Balder needs.

Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

Consular wrote:

The Church of Satan wrote:She's the levelheaded, rational person that Balder needs.

Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

The exclusivity of our club diminishes by the day.

Salvarity wrote:

Consular wrote:Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

The exclusivity of our club diminishes by the day.

Eventually it shall consist of everyone not already in Balder or direct allies if you're right

Consular wrote:

The Church of Satan wrote:She's the levelheaded, rational person that Balder needs.

Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

Oh Fairy got PNGed? She's CTEd

Flanderlion wrote:

Consular wrote:Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

Oh Fairy got PNGed? She's CTEd

We still chat irl but she's not really into NS anymore.

The Church of Satan wrote:I wouldn't go so far as to say that Tim. I will say that Rach is definitely the person to look to for significant change in Balder though. She's the levelheaded, rational person that Balder needs. I'd trust her to do something about it eventually.

As Desmond Tutu once said

If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality

Therefore it can surely be argued that by standing by as the mouse of balder is slowly crushed by the elephant that is Onder and his cabal, as much as I like Rach as a person, as a delegate Rach is therefore complicit as she has remained neutral whilst Onder and his userite cabal oppress the citizenry of balder for there own, nefarious, imperialist aims

Salvarity wrote:

Consular wrote:Thanks for the laugh.

Anyway, I usually keep a list of people who are banned from Balder in my sig if you wanna look without logging into their forum.

The exclusivity of our club diminishes by the day.

As it stands you could probably make a very well-liked, politically strong, and active region solely out of the individuals individually banned from Balder.

Syberis wrote:

Salvarity wrote:
The exclusivity of our club diminishes by the day.

As it stands you could probably make a very well-liked, politically strong, and active region solely out of the individuals individually banned from Balder.

Maybe that has been the scheme all along. They believed in you, they wanted you to be strong, but you just weren't allying, so they gave you a common enemy. It was for your own good.

I am now imagining a region composed solely of people PNG from Balder
It is a weird place

Lord Dominator wrote:I am now imagining a region composed solely of people PNG from Balder
It is a weird place

I feel like there are two opposites in the world of NationStates. You have Balder, then you have Forest.

Jar Wattinree wrote:

Lord Dominator wrote:I am now imagining a region composed solely of people PNG from Balder
It is a weird place

I feel like there are two opposites in the world of NationStates. You have Balder, then you have Forest.

An odd comparison to be sure

Tim-Opolis wrote:I think the past years have proven that Rach has no plans on doing anything but being complicit to Onder's agenda.

In other breaking news, it turns out water is actually made from hydrogen and oxygen. I could have created a massive wall of text to explain why that is, and how it relates to nationstates foreign policy, but I don't want to show Onder up, plus I am lazy.

Lord Dominator wrote:

Jar Wattinree wrote:I feel like there are two opposites in the world of NationStates. You have Balder, then you have Forest.

An odd comparison to be sure

But a welcome one.

Mr Bubbly wrote:

Tim-Opolis wrote:I think the past years have proven that Rach has no plans on doing anything but being complicit to Onder's agenda.

In other breaking news, it turns out water is actually made from hydrogen and oxygen. I could have created a massive wall of text to explain why that is, and how it relates to nationstates foreign policy, but I don't want to show Onder up, plus I am lazy.

HMU if you want to chat without hiding behind a puppet, little buddy.

All the opinions expressed below are the sole property of HEM Tiberius. They should not be assigned to any region in which he serves, has served, has visited, or has pulled over to use the rest stop while driving through

Okay, broadly speaking there are some people I want to respond to. I know you've all been waiting for my input in this drama fest, so I don't want to disappoint!!!!

People who are attacking Balder's government because the region is allegedly inactive / stagnanet

This is a dumb argument. Do you know who else have been stagnant for the overwhelming majority of their existence? Uh, like the overwhelming majority of the feeders and sinkers. Like some people might find this shocking because there is something of a feeder/sinker renaissance going on, but for the broad strokes of history the feeders/sinkers were the most inactive, lethargic, stagnant regions of the game — only barely holding onto a strand of relevancy by their status of being feeder regions.

Does this mean that these regions consistently should have lost their sovereignty? Well, many people through history thought that might be what it means (Emperor Mattius, Westwing, Sedge, Milograd, Eli, skip ahead to LWU, idk who else my memory fades after 2012) but in almost every case the vast majority of the world rallies behind the established government — regardless of how prosperous or not it is. Indeed, in nearly every case dirty user-rites like Europeia deployed our forces to make sure the established, respected feeder government was re-installed.

So let's not pretend this argument is about stagnation.

People who are attacking Balder for being "controlled by the LKE"

I just want to say that this very bizarre case for how Balder is somehow controlled by the LKE makes absolutely no sense.

Okay, so according to people who believe this theory. Yes, only ~20% of Balder is made up of joint citizens of the LKE. But that doesn't matter, because people are harassed via DM and afraid of ostracization if they vote against the Vichy LKE government.

How do we know this?

Because a few brave patriots have scrambled across the border, Handmaid's Tale-esque, to quietly relay the story to a select group of people who have an axe to grind with Onder.

This makes absolutely no sense!!!!

At the very least, if I'm meant to choose which is more likely: the story above, or the fact that Balder's citizens are mostly content with the current government, it's not like a hard choice. The alternative is that people are continuing to vote for a government they hate in a political simulation game because ????? ALSO, doesn't Balder have a secret ballot? Like how would Onder and his cronies even know who voted against them?

If, by chance, there are current or former citizens of Balder who feel like their region is being controlled by an outside cabal that doesn't have a majority stake in their region, can they please stop gossiping with Altino and like, tell us the whole juicy story? ENN would be happy to publish such a story if it were credible. You can write it yourself, or I'd be happy to interview you.

People who are attacking Balder for PNG-ing too many people:

I'm torn here, because I think under all the melodrama there is something of a fair point about being too trigger happy with PNGs. But, in my opinion, they only hurt the region issuing them — do they really hurt people who aren't citizens and have no real interest in being members of the community? I can't help but think this is mostly faux-outrage, by people who never would've even accidentally wandered into Balder at any point in time anyway.

But on the other hand, I also think it's a symptom of this game having no real foreign policy anymore. There is no grand defender manifesto arguing with a bold imperialist vision. Nothing is that nuanced. it's just a little game of who is friends with who! It's a social clique with the cool kids who are friends with all the other cool kids, and mobilize their regions against other regions that have people who they don't personally like in them. Maybe that's why people take PNGs so *personally* when they are just part of the political game?? Idk!

Which brings me to my last point..............

People who are attacking Balder because they personally don't like Onder:

Okay, thanks for being honest about what your motivations are here. Like, it's fine! There are great swaths of this game written about battles of rivals who fought because they personally despised each other! It's totally legitimate. But can we drop the tender faux concern over tender Balder's neglected heart??

"The GCRs deserve stability just like every other region"
"Except this one in particular that I personally believe is more stale than the others"

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:"The GCRs deserve stability just like every other region"
"Except this one in particular that I personally believe is more stale than the others"
(Image)

I reserve the right to be a hypocrite as I please

King HEM wrote:But can we drop the tender faux concern over tender Balder's neglected heart??

As much as you would like that for your own userite reasons -- no, nobody will be dropping that. Because we would actually like to see Balder thrive as a truly independent Sinker with a government led by its natives, Sinkerites who are actually committed to their Sinker and who aren't splitting time and energy that should be going to Balder on Europeia, The LKE, the IJCC, and wherever else. The natives of Balder deserve better than that. They deserve people who are actually dedicated to Balder and its interests leading their government, not people who are more concerned about what benefits Europeia, The LKE, or the IJCC. When people are spending more time on other regions than they are on Balder, they are in fact neglecting it. When they're running the IJCC (Solorni) or still in the leadership of The LKE (Onder) or running intelligence for at least three regions (NES), they aren't giving everything they can to Balder, and they aren't giving Balder what Balder deserves. Other Feeders and Sinkers should take a stand against the neglect inflicted upon Balder.

Cormactopia Prime wrote:

King HEM wrote:But can we drop the tender faux concern over tender Balder's neglected heart??

As much as you would like that for your own userite reasons -- no, nobody will be dropping that. Because we would actually like to see Balder thrive as a truly independent Sinker with a government led by its natives, Sinkerites who are actually committed to their Sinker and who aren't splitting time and energy that should be going to Balder on Europeia, The LKE, the IJCC, and wherever else. The natives of Balder deserve better than that. They deserve people who are actually dedicated to Balder and its interests leading their government, not people who are more concerned about what benefits Europeia, The LKE, or the IJCC. When people are spending more time on other regions than they are on Balder, they are in fact neglecting it. When they're running the IJCC (Solorni) or still in the leadership of The LKE (Onder) or running intelligence for at least three regions (NES), they aren't giving everything they can to Balder, and they aren't giving Balder what Balder deserves. Other Feeders and Sinkers should take a stand against the neglect inflicted upon Balder.

At least you still have an interesting ideology Cormac, I’ll give you that

Why is Europeia constantly dragged into this though?? I’m confused as to how we are supposedly controlling Balder. If we are, as FA Minister, I’d like to know!!

FTR: Europeia has a pretty overwhelming record in supporting feeder governments when usurper coups break out. I won’t claim a perfect record because I was semi-active for many years, but as eagerly as you paint us as user-rite, subursive leeches, I’m just not seeing it??

Lord Dominator wrote:

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:"The GCRs deserve stability just like every other region"
"Except this one in particular that I personally believe is more stale than the others"
(Image)

I reserve the right to be a hypocrite as I please

^^

Let's preface this by saying Cormac's opinion on the matter is pretty dominant nowadays. And then swiftly move on.

Oh my reply really got to Onder. Mission successful! At least he recognises me for my prominent role as the Rejected Realms' esteemed D.O.O.F.A..

Anyway, Balder chose to hate TRR, not the other way around. Balder is the party that broke relations, for pretty shifty reasons at that (no one else reacted to those TRT articles the way you did, even Osiris, who were arguably spoken negatively of more than Balder, didn't take it to heart - and now I'm also a proud citizen of Osiris as well). Whenever TRR talks about trying to make peace with Balder (which must be way more than Onder thinks), the general consensus is 'they wouldn't care either way, they're the ones choosing to hate us.'

I think that's a pretty fair assessment if anyone cares to (re-)read page 51.

As for the current conversation: while people -- especially people like me -- want every region (fashbashing exceptions strongly apply) to be as stable as possible, and believe that GCRs should be the shining examples of that, the legitimate government of Balder goes far and above and BEYOND making themselves unapproachable for most active players. Look at the storm they have recently been brewing with Osiris for example.

Tim-Opolis wrote:

Mr Bubbly wrote:In other breaking news, it turns out water is actually made from hydrogen and oxygen. I could have created a massive wall of text to explain why that is, and how it relates to nationstates foreign policy, but I don't want to show Onder up, plus I am lazy.

HMU if you want to chat without hiding behind a puppet, little buddy.

Little Bubbly*

And for the record there are those of us in TRR that want things with Balder to be better. They've been aware of this for a while now. To my knowledge they've disregarded that entirely for as long as they've known.

Cormactopia Prime wrote:They deserve people who are actually dedicated to Balder and its interests leading their government, not people who are more concerned about what benefits Europeia, The LKE, or the IJCC. When people are spending more time on other regions than they are on Balder, they are in fact neglecting it. When they're running the IJCC (Solorni) or still in the leadership of The LKE (Onder) or running intelligence for at least three regions (NES), they aren't giving everything they can to Balder, and they aren't giving Balder what Balder deserves.

We neither spend more time on other regions than Balder, nor serve the interests of any other region when making decisions on behalf of Balder.

Solorni commanding IJCC forces is very far from not spending time on Balder. The IJCC is Balder's military (as much as it is Europeia's military or the LKE's military). IJCC has no aims or resources of its own beyond those of the three regions, so it is wrong to consider this as a separate entity. As for decision-making authority, the Queen of Balder holding the Chairmanship of IJCC would rather seem to give Balder authority over the LKE and Europeia's militaries, not the other way round. In terms of the LKE, while it is my home region and I retain a say on decisions there as Emperor Emeritus, I have spent very little time on day-to-day business within the LKE since my abdication (partly to its detriment, in recent months when Emperor Theoden has been unavoidably absent, creating a gap at the top), whereas I am actively involved in running the internal affairs of Balder on a day-to-day basis. In no way have I neglected any of my governmental responsibilities. I think it no exaggeration to say that I am one of the most hands-on Statsministers, in terms of the activities of the government, that Balder has ever had. Like the Queen and myself, North East Somerset is more involved in Balder than he is in either Europeia or the LKE.

Inconveniently for our foreign critics, this tale of neglect is just not borne out by the reality of the situation.

It is absurd to see people with no or minimal connection to Balder question the dedication and commitment of those who have served Balder for years. Balder will make decisions based on the views and interests of our own community, rather than being affected by critics with no stake in our region. In all frankness, Balder could not be less interested in the opinions of the part of the gameplay community which intensely dislikes us, however nosiy it is.

The Church of Satan wrote:And for the record there are those of us in TRR that want things with Balder to be better. They've been aware of this for a while now. To my knowledge they've disregarded that entirely for as long as they've known.

Firstly, Balder has received no contact from The Rejected Realms on this. It's not our job to prompt TRR into doing something that most of its members don't want to do. If TRR did want a change, it is for them to contact Balder first; not for Balder to see that there is an internal debate there and contact TRR. Balder will not interfere in TRR affairs. As far as Balder is concerned, relations are not going to improve until and unless there is an end to unprovoked hostile and disparaging remarks from TRR's executive government officials and official outlets about Balder. I doubt that is going to happen because there too many people who dislike Balder in TRR. If there was a change in TRR's attitude, we might entertain a change, but as things stand, Balder is content with the existing state of affairs. We are not going to try either to affect, or allow our own policy to be affected by, internal discussions within TRR.

Secondly, as I mentioned in the previous discussion, Balder was re-considering the proscription status of The Rejected Realms as part of an effort to review and trim the number of proscribed regions. However, as TRR thinks it is acceptable to make casual remarks about couping Balder, that won't be going ahead.

Onder Kelkia wrote:as TRR thinks it is acceptable to make casual remarks about couping Balder

That characterisation is incorrect. I explicitly denied that TRR has any wish to coup Balder or see it couped.
As I am the Delegate and the head of government, that should override anyone else's authority as to what "TRR thinks". Ubi maior minor cessat.
You cannot treat those remarks as if they were executive policy but ignore my reply.

If you really want you can say that "Junior TRR officials think it is acceptable to make casual remarks about couping Balder" or that "Many TRR citizens are unsympathetic to Balder" instead, understanding the difference that and what you said.

Frattastan IV wrote:

Onder Kelkia wrote:as TRR thinks it is acceptable to make casual remarks about couping Balder

That characterisation is incorrect. I explicitly denied that TRR has any wish to coup Balder or see it couped.
As I am the Delegate and the head of government, that should override anyone else's authority as to what "TRR thinks". Ubi maior minor cessat.

If you really want you can say that "Junior TRR officials think it is acceptable to make casual remarks about couping Balder" instead.

But you see, Fratt, while the Queen of Balder's words don't represent Balder, the words of junior officials in other regions do represent those regions.

I'm the three-time Pharaoh Emeritus of Osiris, honored with two regional honors and multiple titles of nobility. I also think it's acceptable to coup Balder. Where is Osiris' proscription? Balder would frankly be doing Osiris a favor by prohibiting "Balderans" like NES from participating in Osiris. Bring it on.