Balder - State Opening of 19th Storting

[Aumelodia]

Because I've got news for you: The People's Republic of Lazarus was established by the officials of its predecessor government.

This is a silly comparison. Establishing the People's Republic of Lazarus required a purge of senior members who were integral to the community, including Lazarus's longest-serving delegate in its recorded history.

I've got some more news for you. Establishing the Undead Dominion of Lazarus required a purge of senior members who were integral to the community, including multiple of Lazarus's long-serving delegates in its recorded history.

[Onderkelkia]

This is a silly comparison. Establishing the People's Republic of Lazarus required a purge of senior members who were integral to the community, including Lazarus's longest-serving delegate in its recorded history.

I've got some more news for you. Establishing the Undead Dominion of Lazarus required a purge of senior members who were integral to the community, including multiple of Lazarus's long-serving delegates in its recorded history.

That discussion arose from Cormac comparing the 2013 Feux/Harmoneia coup to the March 2018 Dominion/Khanate transition, not the events of July 2017.

[Salvarity]

Oh no! Whatever will Perg do without the support of the almighty Sinker Balder????? He's certainly done for now!

Balder might as well be a isolationist region right now, due to them receiving hate from almost every GCR.

Once more the rhetoric of 'only GCRs matter' rears itself.

The LKE stands alongside our friend and ally Balder.

[Ikania]

Balder might as well be a isolationist region right now, due to them receiving hate from almost every GCR.

Once more the rhetoric of 'only GCRs matter' rears itself.

The LKE stands alongside behind our friend and ally Balder.

[Glacikaldr]

In regards to the mutts who are occupying Laz:
Ironic. They could save others from contradictions, but not themselves.

[Queen Yuno]

I am upset with the Pergamon PNG but now I'm worried I'll get PNG too if I write a post about it.

[Unibot III]

Balder might as well be a isolationist region right now, due to them receiving hate from almost every GCR.

Once more the rhetoric of 'only GCRs matter' rears itself.

The LKE stands alongside our friend and ally Balder.

Just a few posts ago, the Balder Queen herself was trying to argue that Balder didn't have closer ties to UCRs like LKE and Europeia ("Your suggestion that Balder has closer ties with UCRs, particularly raider ones is incorrect.") However, everyone knows Balder's longstanding relationship with LKE and Europeia is near constitutional. Rachel initially tried to claim Balder with a coalition of ERN/LKE/TNI forces in 2011.

I am upset with the Pergamon PNG but now I'm worried I'll get PNG too if I write a post about it.

Avoid sneezing around Balder, they might interpret it as a diplomatic slight. And whatever you do, don't mention the receding hairline. It's a sensitive subject.

I'll add that I liked Ikania's post, which got pushed aside by other posts.

[Ikania]

I'll add that I liked Ikania's post, which got pushed aside by other posts.

Times get tough when your only option left is to try and out-Onder the opposition with mini-essays of arguments.

[Salvarity]

Once more the rhetoric of 'only GCRs matter' rears itself.

The LKE stands alongside our friend and ally Balder.

Just a few posts ago, the Balder Queen herself was trying to argue that Balder didn't have closer ties to UCRs like LKE and Europeia ("Your suggestion that Balder has closer ties with UCRs, particularly raider ones is incorrect.") However, everyone knows Balder's longstanding relationship with LKE and Europeia is near constitutional. Rachel initially tried to claim Balder with a coalition of ERN/LKE/TNI forces in 2011.

Those ideas are not mutually exclusive. The Queen of Balder considering Balder's ties to its GCR allies stronger than its ties to the LKE does not invalidate our alliance or imply we do not matter.

[Killer Kitty]

But we all know who the man behind the curtain is.

Is it the Wizard of Oz?

[Solorni]

I should clarify this because it is slightly unclear, I wrote it a bit hastily and a few people have been taking things from it I don't mean:

Your suggestion that Balder has closer ties with UCRs, particularly raider ones is incorrect. In the recent events surrounding various raider organizations and their ties to Game Created Regions, Balder discovered it had nominal ties with them at best.

What I meant here was that Balder does not have closer ties with UCRs than it does with GCRs. Equal ties. All our allies are equal. So to sum up; three things:

1. Balder does not have closer ties with UCRs.
2. Balder's allies are equal.
3. Balder does not have close ties to raider UCRs.

Quite obviously, we are closer to GCRs like TWP rather than UCRs we don't have alliances with. We are closer to UCRs we have alliances with than GCRs we don't have alliances with. We are as close with GCR allies as we are with UCR allies. So, just clarifying this because it was slightly confusing. I'm not sure if people were confused or deliberately misrepresenting.

Overall, I view this argument as a success for those who wanted to waste my time. Lazarus has been discussed to death over the past few months and we all knew where everyone stood. Nothing was accomplished here except wasting peoples time and taking away my NS time and others from more productive pursuits. Instead we got an argument with all the usual suspects arguing the usual way pretending that it matters one way or another and that it would turn out any other way. People should have asked themselves the key question why is this time different.

[Pergamon]

This incarnation of Balder seems to be closer to UCRs with spherical ties to Raiderdom, than to fellow GCRs. It's a shame.

The Government of Balder always welcomes dialogue with our allies, but it is unbelievably discourteous for a senior official of a fellow member of the GCR Sovereignty Accords to launch a direct public attack on Balder. This is especially so when no previous effort has been made to communicate concerns of any kind to the Government in private. Pergamon, at no point have you made any attempt to contact me or the Foreign Minister about these matters.

Following a series of previous incidents, including an occasion when you decided to call our Crown Prince a "Userite", you were declared persona non grata in Balder and demoted from your previous post as Consul of The Pacific. After a period of good behaviour, Statsminister OnderKelkia decided to lift your PNG status. With hindsight, clearly he made a rare error in trusting you again. We've ignored a number of recent comments, but this is just unacceptable.

I am hereby declaring you persona non grata from Balder. This time will be for good.

How convenient. I was waiting for someone to release me from the burden of Balder, you see, my server list is kinda full and every time I tried to quit Balder, someone kept coming back to miraculously ask me to rejoin the server. Thank you for this.

Since I do not require to hold back anymore, I want now to address some things specifically. Some "factual errors" as I may say.

Please note that I have had an extensive talk with the Queen four weeks ago. These talks have not concluded anything at all, but a confession from the Queen of Balder that the support is de facto, rather not for a specific organization or government but for specific individuals, namely Aleister, Evil Wolf and Funk, which just happen to hang around in a nice little chat channel together with NES and Onder and simply asked for help. I find this lack of professionalism from a GCR Government shocking. Especially if there wasn't a legal justification for the support - and Balder and LWU unlawfully amended the treaty between Balder and Lazarus simply overnight. I am not even joking: overnight. I don't know if these hotfixes even literally AFTER a coup can still be considered as professional action. To think about that before the coup happened and kinda re-ratify the treaty under the official government it was signed with, and then to simply just to codify Funk, Aleister and Evil Wolf into that - that is how you would have at least avoided legal loopholes.

Furthermore, let me allow you to explain the lacking expertise of Lone Wolves United (Which kinda unbelievably suck - aside from the mechanical part, that much I give them.)
and of course Balders Government in GCR affairs further:

LWU: Why in the world do you simply coup a region - in a way that it looks like that you simply got drunk and just decided that Lazarus kinda sucks and you're going to have a wolf party in there now? Frankly, without informing your partners beforehand: This is how it looked like to me. Balder seemed to desperately trying to aid you guys regardless, even considering you fucked up big time and played the entire politics part more than just poorly.

Balder: Why did you still support a lost cause PR wise and politics wise? Yes, LWU holds the region mechanically, but LWU is in a though spot and still has not yet achieved to legitimize themselves - which is to be frank, quite impossible though. In my opinion, Balders government lacks the general expertise to understand that they can't simply sit this out and hunker down - This foreign adventure was doomed from the start because of the poor execution of LWU. Maybe UCR politics are not the same as GCR politics, NES and Onder.

LWU: Your general propaganda and rhetoric seems poorly patch-worked together and doesn't follow any particular logic. The "defender menace" you pointed out, is for the most part artificial. You transformed a fly into an elephant. Defenders are weak and irrelevant in GCR prospect. 7 of 9 GCRs are not Defender. TRR is Defender - TSP is defender leaning, which means they are not even truly defender; they do raids too and aid their allies on raids. It just means the majority of their operations is some silly game where they chase after some silly NS graffiti people that simply love to tag a region with their banner as kind of promo and fun activity. But that of course, seems relevant: How this is even remotely relevant is beyond my understanding.

Balder: The things I just pointed out for LWU are applicable to Balder too. I do not even wonder anymore if you do GCR politics, because you don't. You play Raiders Versus Defenders in GCRs and over and over again try to pull out justifications for that. Literally out of the nowhere. And then at the same time, you demand that other GCR governments respect you, take you seriously, look at you as professional entity.

What did you do to deserve this?

I think PNGing a high ranking official from another GCR for pointing out factual errors and criticizing political moves that have no logical foundations at all, after the chats in private DMs looked like there was no desire to talk any longer, is not contributing greatly to change this particular view about Balder.

Maybe Onder and NES should sit back and think about better reasons why this all happened.
Hint: It's not because I would be defender. ; Yet another shenanigan by Onder and NES, which is just more than hilarious. Raiding VS Defending is not of interest for us, and has not been part of our policy since the re-establishment of the Legio, neither part of our philosophical world view. While the New Pacific Order only does military operations with a reason of war, namely: a proper Casus Belli, we harness the mechanics of what we would call "War". It means that we harness all mechanical aspects of R/D without separation. We will defend our own territory. We will defend allies. We will join liberations to punish raiders that think they can do whatever they want in regards of the Pacific. However, gladly, most of the time we're not being provoked like this, neither are our territory or our allies under attack, which means we do not require to do defensive operations in most cases. The majority of our operations are pure crash raids, where we look forward to ultimately destroy regions, that have committed several crimes against order. The New Pacific Order remains as beacon of order. This is significant. We moved out to destroy Nazis and Fascists, we moved out to destroy 4chan vermin, we moved out to punish spammers and Kekers and everything that goes into the direction of being considered more than just objectionable. But of course, Onder and NES, crash raiding is defenderist. This is also why Evil Wolf and LWU must be ultimately defender after your logic then, is this correct, or is your logic flawed?

This is all.
For now.

[Killer Kitty]

-snip-

You must be extremely exhausted from all those mental gymnastics you just performed.

[Consular]

I am upset with the Pergamon PNG but now I'm worried I'll get PNG too if I write a post about it.

Lol come join the club Yuno.

[Tim Stark]

I am upset with the Pergamon PNG but now I'm worried I'll get PNG too if I write a post about it.

Having been PNGd from Balder, I can assure you it's really refreshing.

It's really funny to see how completely insecure about themselves the Balder Government is, that they go have a tantrum and PNG anybody who speaks out against them. At least Rach carries herself with self-respect and is able to usually put together some sort of an argument, but that much cannot be said for the elected officials. They generally act spineless, incapable, and go crying for Daddy OnderKelkia whenever someone they can't tango with gives them a booboo.

[Killer Kitty]

It's really funny to see how completely insecure about themselves the Balder Government is, that they go have a tantrum and PNG anybody who speaks out against them.

To be completely fair, this is Perg we're talking about here. He should probably be PNG from every GCR.

[King HEM]

I want to say that I think the Queen gave a very good State Opening of Parliament speech! Good luck to the new officeholders from your friends in Europeia!

[Tim Stark]

It's really funny to see how completely insecure about themselves the Balder Government is, that they go have a tantrum and PNG anybody who speaks out against them.

To be completely fair, this is Perg we're talking about here. He should probably be PNG from every GCR.

Pergamon has shown nothing but the utmost professionalism and ability in all of his negotiations and discussions with The South Pacific. He has demonstrated nothing but capable action, and has truly epitomized the values of The Pacific that made us desire to sign into a treaty with them. While I'm not certain why you would allege that he should be PNG in every GCR, I would imagine it has something to do with you fragile ego being unable to handle the fact that your LWU-regime is being consistently roasted, while only confirming the roasting by showing no real ability or drive to build any actual community or government within the Warzone region you reside in.

[Killer Kitty]

He has demonstrated nothing but capable action, and has truly epitomized the values of The Pacific

Yeah, values like being the most successful Feeder/Sinker coup organization in the entirely of Nationstates history. NPO has couped more GCR governments than any person or organization in the entire game.

But congratulations on that treaty. Good luck.

[Solorni]

The complaint I relayed to you personally Pergamon four weeks ago from Balder officials, was your public criticism of Balder's Foreign Minister Theoden Sebastian. So you knew quite clearly which aspect of your behaviour that elected Balder officials had taken exception to. Rather than seeking to discuss it with Aleisyr, I brought it up to you since I felt that was more respectful. Now, that was a busy day for me and I ended up being too busy for that conversation, so I do apologize for not getting back to you on the later parts of that conversation. However it was clear that while I did not think it was a big deal compared to other issues, that this had indeed been a complaint.

I thought that there was an understanding and perhaps this was a mistake on my part to have believed this; that having different viewpoints on Lazarus was acceptable by both sides (particularly given how this had been happening already) but that public clashes between our two regions was to be avoided. It seemed like this was the case given our respectful conversation and my relay of what Balder officials had felt was inappropriate. This was the status quo that I felt was considered; while not ideal... to be a fair compromise. It was also how things had operated for the past four weeks until today.

Given this understanding, or at the very least knowing that Balder officials did not think it was appropriate that you were criticizing your treatied allies in public... for you to then lay into another Balder official was obviously something they would care deeply about. This was about mutual respect. Balder officials, did not respond to any of your posts afaik to criticize your position and the NPO's position. I have not seen any of the NPO's allies officials criticizing the NPO officials here let alone Balder. Similarly this is not the norm for how the NPO treats its other allies. So I would believe that Balder officials expect the same modicum of respect from NPO officials that they have given NPO officials.

I am sure that if the Minister of Foreign Affairs from TSP and other groups the NPO had agreements with had been publicly criticizing NPO officials that the NPO would likely not appreciate that. Four weeks ago, I went out of my way to show respect to you by bringing those concerns to you, rather than Aleisyr and acting as a messenger to ensure that rather than you getting a PNG then that you would receive these concerns.

Also, it should be pointed out that Balder officials got these complaints to you privately since they felt it was more respectful than bringing it up on the Gameplay forums. Privately, either in the GCRS, DMs or group chats is where discussions between our officials should be happening and not on the gameplay forums. So again, these are the avenues where such disagreements should be brought up. Balder officials when they had disagreements with you and general concerns brought them up in private rather than in the circus that is the NSGP forum. So it's about that mutual respect.

It is pretty obvious that I am fairly busy, I think even when we were talking I told you I was eating lunch and walking around the city on my way to work. If you wanted to continue to have that conversation or felt that there were severe concerns, you could always have bugged me again or gotten into contact with Balder officials. Although I figure we have more of a rapport which is why I was acting as a messenger anyway.

I think that is a very reasonable explanation.

---

On a more general note, the examples of what I laid out is how diplomacy is conducted and how it is conducted respectfully. A perfect example of this is all the outrage about the Lazarus paper comparing TRR to fascists. Officials from TRR among others were raising hell on the forums and starting to insult Balder and Balder officials. I went to broach the matter with Guy and then the logs of our discussion were on the NS forums in one of most ridiculous "gotcha" moments I have ever seen. This is not how diplomacy is conducted and not how we accomplish objectives. I am not sure if this is something people have forgotten.

In any case, despite me being irritated at the immaturity and disrespect of Guy eventually the people upset about this paper managed to figure out how to contact officials from Balder with their complaints. I mean, I can't tell what is real on the NS forums from what is just grandstanding. But once these complaints were brought up to Balder officials through the proper channels, Balder officials then discussed the matter with officials from Lazarus and the paper was retracted. So all of those people criticizing Balder on these forums were either doing it because they did not know how to do diplomacy or because they have ill intent.

This is a perfect example of how diplomacy should be handled, it is the respectful way and it can lead to real results. Trying to accomplish an aim diplomatically by berating regions and people on the NS forums accomplishes absolutely nothing for obvious reasons. I hope that the next time Guy wants Balder to help him, he will think to himself "maybe instead of posting on the NS forums
and only managing to irritate other people, I will instead discuss it with Balder officials in private". This is how things get done.

There is an expectation from Balder officials that this is especially how allies and friends discuss things so that we can all come up with a solution without hurt feelings. It is pretty standard across NS no matter how you feel about them personally.

[Tim Stark]

Oi Rach, you need to stop taking writing lessons from Onder.

[Pergamon]

The complaint I relayed to you personally Pergamon four weeks ago from Balder officials, was your public criticism of Balder's Foreign Minister Theoden Sebastian. So you knew quite clearly which aspect of your behaviour that elected Balder officials had taken exception to. Rather than seeking to discuss it with Aleisyr, I brought it up to you since I felt that was more respectful. Now, that was a busy day for me and I ended up being too busy for that conversation, so I do apologize for not getting back to you on the later parts of that conversation. However it was clear that while I did not think it was a big deal compared to other issues, that this had indeed been a complaint.

I thought that there was an understanding and perhaps this was a mistake on my part to have believed this; that having different viewpoints on Lazarus was acceptable by both sides (particularly given how this had been happening already) but that public clashes between our two regions was to be avoided. It seemed like this was the case given our respectful conversation and my relay of what Balder officials had felt was inappropriate. This was the status quo that I felt was considered; while not ideal... to be a fair compromise. It was also how things had operated for the past four weeks until today.

Again, here are factual errors. You have spoken to me. We addressed the topic. Now, please provide me with logs in which we endorsed your action to support LWU or rather accepted the status-quo mutually. I can't find them. Quite the opposite. I will refrain from washing the dirty laundry in public for now. I personally do not like it. I would refrain from giving me no other choice: The twisting of realities must stop now. You can point out thinks as they are - and not as you would like them to be.

Given this understanding, or at the very least knowing that Balder officials did not think it was appropriate that you were criticizing your treatied allies in public... for you to then lay into another Balder official was obviously something they would care deeply about. This was about mutual respect. Balder officials, did not respond to any of your posts afaik to criticize your position and the NPO's position. I have not seen any of the NPO's allies officials criticizing the NPO officials here let alone Balder. Similarly this is not the norm for how the NPO treats its other allies. So I would believe that Balder officials expect the same modicum of respect from NPO officials that they have given NPO officials.

I don't feel it's a great secret anymore, that Onder and NES have a great disliking of this incarnation of the NPO and for me personally. I feel there is no difference between the logical criticism by me and the constant whine about the NPO and especially me by NES and Onder, because they consider our policies to be "defenderist". They have treated me like they would treat defenders, I wouldn't even say they have treated the NPO particularly well: The constant bragging about a high ranking official of the Emperor by R/D zealots is also not a way how to deal with allies. I remember the time when the NPO was co-operating with TGW against fascists, something totally unpolitical in R/D prospect: Fascists are an error in the game and do not deserve to exist. ; Also I remember when the NPO was receiving public and private insults from TBH and joined a liberation against them because of that. Balder did criticize that greatly, did conspire to kick me from the GCR Sovereignty Accords Council, in which I remain kicked to this day. ; You hate TGW, good. However, what I want to point out here is that the NPO hates LWU, and you're condemning essentially the actions of me and the Pacific right now, for the very same things you did do yourself. No, what you did is worse. Supporting an UCR to take over a GCR is much more worse than to punish raiderist clowns for insulting a GCR and to beat Nazis and Fascists together with everyone that is willing to update against them, regardless of R/D affiliation. Balder is an entity of the R/D metagame, the NPO is not and denounces R/D. I think Balder and the NPO, aside from systemic values, disagree fundamentally.

I am sure that if the Minister of Foreign Affairs from TSP and other groups the NPO had agreements with had been publicly criticizing NPO officials that the NPO would likely not appreciate that. Four weeks ago, I went out of my way to show respect to you by bringing those concerns to you, rather than Aleisyr and acting as a messenger to ensure that rather than you getting a PNG then that you would receive these concerns.

Please do not jinx a G-R post. The treaty between TSP and the NPO is fundamentally different and was built on a base of mutual understanding between parties that most likely do not cross each other in GCR affairs. Supporting an UCR to take over a GCR however, that is crossing the NPO. We have declared all members of LWU PNG, we have degraded Lazarus to a Warzone. Assuming we would be fine with the whole situation is the only diplomatic error I can see there. I think we've been quite consistent to proclaim that we will not and do not tolerate UCRs ruling over GCRs. Again, I think Balder and the NPO, aside from systemic values, disagree fundamentally.

Also, it should be pointed out that Balder officials got these complaints to you privately since they felt it was more respectful than bringing it up on the Gameplay forums. Privately, either in the GCRS, DMs or group chats is where discussions between our officials should be happening and not on the gameplay forums. So again, these are the avenues where such disagreements should be brought up. Balder officials when they had disagreements with you and general concerns brought them up in private rather than in the circus that is the NSGP forum. So it's about that mutual respect.

It is pretty obvious that I am fairly busy, I think even when we were talking I told you I was eating lunch and walking around the city on my way to work. If you wanted to continue to have that conversation or felt that there were severe concerns, you could always have bugged me again or gotten into contact with Balder officials. Although I figure we have more of a rapport which is why I was acting as a messenger anyway.

I think that is a very reasonable explanation.

I don't see where further private conversations would settle anything. You have not been replying any longer. You knew how the Pacific felt about this, we have not keeping it a secret. I think it was addressed many times and it was visible for anyone. What is there to address any longer, if two parties mutually disagree with each other that much? Where is the point to conclude privately that you simply disagree and most likely work against each other, because the interests do not align, are quite the opposite of each other? It makes no sense to me.

On a more general note, the examples of what I laid out is how diplomacy is conducted and how it is conducted respectfully. A perfect example of this is all the outrage about the Lazarus paper comparing TRR to fascists. Officials from TRR among others were raising hell on the forums and starting to insult Balder and Balder officials. I went to broach the matter with Guy and then the logs of our discussion were on the NS forums in one of most ridiculous "gotcha" moments I have ever seen. This is not how diplomacy is conducted and not how we accomplish objectives. I am not sure if this is something people have forgotten.

I can agree with that. But it's not what happened. Not at all.

In any case, despite me being irritated at the immaturity and disrespect of Guy eventually the people upset about this paper managed to figure out how to contact officials from Balder with their complaints. I mean, I can't tell what is real on the NS forums from what is just grandstanding. But once these complaints were brought up to Balder officials through the proper channels, Balder officials then discussed the matter with officials from Lazarus and the paper was retracted. So all of those people criticizing Balder on these forums were either doing it because they did not know how to do diplomacy or because they have ill intent.

It's not always ill intent. Not everything is based on personal grudges - We do not hold personal grudges against Balder. There will be no PNG from our side, it's petty and pointless. The Pacific has been consistent with its believes and remains with its modus operandi, which focuses against UCRs in GCRs and will not alternate the course. This is a fundamentally political reasoning. It's nothing personal, it's just good business.

There is an expectation from Balder officials that this is especially how allies and friends discuss things so that we can all come up with a solution without hurt feelings. It is pretty standard across NS no matter how you feel about them personally.

Apparently it's a matter for Balder's government how they feel personally about people. What did I say about the GCR Sovereignty Accords Council? It's a bold thing to claim, when Government officials are refusing to work with high-ups of their Allies. While I do not consider working with NES and Onder as particularly pleasant affair, I hold no grudges. I actually consider it highly unprofessional to snipe Government members of an Ally out of working environments because of personal grudges. Feel free to correct me, but I can't recall that I attempted to snipe out NES or Onder from mutual working environments.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Just thought I'd take a moment to highlight this:

Our allies are all well aware of our position on Lazarus. Some of them agree with us, some of them have a different view and some are somewhere in between. We respect all of our allies' right to their view and we are sure that they will afford us the same respect when it comes to our position.

None of Balder's allies are gullible or weak enough for their for their foreign policy to be shaped by public posts from you.

No, but I daresay the foreign policy of some of them may be shaped by these public posts from you.

Prescient, no?

Hopefully Balder will continue to PNG its way into the loss of its alliances, when its allies dare speak up in dissent against Balder's policy.

Balder might as well be a isolationist region right now, due to them receiving hate from almost every GCR.

We have no issues with our good friends in Balder.

Well, of course not. The West Pacific is nearly as much a menace to other GCRs as is Balder.

Your former Guardian, the leader of Empire, is, after all, actively tarting in Lazarus with the regime's apparent permission. Funny, that.

[Onderkelkia]

Prescient, no?

Not particularly. Pergamon's feelings on the matter and unprofessional public outbursts have been issues for some time. Since at least the events leading to the withdrawal of Osiris from the GCR Sovereignty Accords really.

[Pergamon]

Prescient, no?

Not particularly. Pergamon's feelings on the matter and unprofessional public outbursts have been issues for some time. Since at least the events leading to the withdrawal of Osiris from the GCR Sovereignty Accords really.

Osiris withdrew from the GCR Sovereignty Accords because the leadership of the NPO refused to ban me upon foreign demands to do so. Osiris back then, under the leadership of NK withdrew because the NPO remained as sovereign entity that was not to be pushed around by foreign powers. Please feel free to look it up here again.

And frankly, it was over concerns that have been raised by Pierconium before and which are also constantly raised by me. Apparently the Raider VS Defender metagame defines GCR politics for some entities. While the Pacific remains with a solid standpoint, based on logic and consistency.

I can't repeat myself enough:

If players argue with rational choice and support LWU, I am asking myself what kind of rationality it follows. Lazarus is a tomb and the region is not attractive as partner, nor as recruitment pool or anything else. It's been a region troubled by R/D ever since and is to this day highly unstable. I don't know why nations of which I expected much more, chose an unstable, non-viable UCR government in the most unstable of all Sinkers over their long standing partners in GCRs. It makes no sense to me at all.

So tell me, Onderkelkia, since when did GCR politics in NationStates degenerate into the ramblings of people who no longer regard the jumping from region A to region B as hobby but as viable policy?

How many resources has Lazarus literally devoured by now? What does Balder gain from it? What is the point do you want to prove? From a purely rational standpoint, does the actual gain (if there is any) justify the investment, or can we assume that the steps being taken have been of emotional nature and of personal importance regarding a R/D prospect, in which raiding UCRs are the natural ally against the sworn enemy of Balder, the Defenders? Then, how do you want to convince me that this is not about Raiders versus Defenders? Yet gain, it makes no sense to me. I can't understand R/D, I consider it pointless - especially in GCRs; The actions taken follow no logic beyond the ramblings of an R/D dichotomy that shouldn't have a place in GCR politics.

I am not asking for anything else than proper logical explanation for actions taken by a GCR which should be, in the greater prospect at least, not part the Raider versus Defender conflict.