Balder - State Opening of 19th Storting

[Altinsane]

To clarify:

When Khanter says Faculties, he does not mean "mental capabilities." I'll provide an example of how he uses that word:

KhanterWintersToday at 1:51 PM
Serfa just saw my TG and DM and decide to ignore
(Yes ... I have the faculties to know if I've been seen or not in discord... Praise Beta testers)

In fact, Onder and Khanter have provided enough posts to show that the person being talked about for "ignoring" to Khanter's outreach is not Zander, but the OTHER MoFA who retired due to real life (and it's understandable now why that happened.) No one is indecent enough to actually insult another's mental capabilities (or should)--

Though, your post is a good point to bring up and address to clear up.

Yeah he means like, common sense or just ability. I understand why it's easy to hinge your argument on that choice of word and try to use that against him, but that isn't what he means. He's not questioning anyone's literal mental capabilities.

[Onder Kelkia]

I used more than a month, using all the means available to search for a clear and simple answer, and if there actually was an internal and fluid communication with me from your end, I would not have needed to make comments in irony.

The key point is that was no attempt to contact Zander Cerebella, who replaced Theoden Sebastian as Balder's Foreign Minister, on 14th October, prior to your later post on 27th October specifically criticising the failure of the new Minister of Foreign Affairs to provide a response to you. When there was a change of Foreign Minister and you were aware (from our announcement) that there was a new Foreign Minister, surely the most logical course of action, if you were using all means available to contact us, would have been to contact the new Foreign Minister with the query unanswered by their predecessor?

Likewise, following the initial lack of reply, there was no attempt to post saying that you needed to speak with a foreign affairs representative on either our forums or Discord server, and there was no attempt to contact the Statsminister (Prime Minister) of Balder, when you failed to receive a response from the previous Foreign Minister (due to his leave of absence, created by unavoidable real-life circumstances). Given this lack of communication, it is not fair or accurate to suggest that you used "all the means available" for over a month. It is unfortunate that Theoden's unavoidable leave of absence meant that your telegram to him some time ago was unnoticed, but there were other reasonable routes available if you had wished to contact the government.

We should not turn this minor matter into anything bigger than it actually is, though sadly that tends to be the result when matters are raised in the Gampelay forum rather than pursued through available private channels. However, it should be noted that the Government of Balder has not been unresponsive, excepting the absence of the former Foreign Minister, who was replaced some time ago with a successor who was not contacted.

[Solorni]

To clarify:

When Khanter says Faculties, he does not mean "mental capabilities." I'll provide an example of how he uses that word:



In fact, Onder and Khanter have provided enough posts to show that the person being talked about for "ignoring" to Khanter's outreach is not Zander, but the OTHER MoFA who retired due to real life (and it's understandable now why that happened.) No one is indecent enough to actually insult another's mental capabilities (or should)--

Though, your post is a good point to bring up and address to clear up.

Yeah he means like, common sense or just ability. I understand why it's easy to hinge your argument on that choice of word and try to use that against him, but that isn't what he means. He's not questioning anyone's literal mental capabilities.

It is unfortunate if you think that it is easy to oppose such language or that arguments for better decorum cannot be made on their own. I have consistently been opposed to similar insults despite their wide use:

NSGP

XXX 10/12/2018
Also Souls' statement still reads retardedly in regards to me
And is inaccurate at best
The Mighty Solorni 10/12/2018
that's not a nice word :stuck_out_tongue:
XXX 10/12/2018
It's the accurate one.
The Mighty Solorni 10/12/2018
the R word XXX >.>

Osiris Discord

Glitterkitten [Me] Last Wednesday at 4:41 PM

Although not a fan of the r word

I cannot recall another person considering my well known opposition to such language to be "trying to use it against them". It is possible to have discussions without resorting to such insults. So I am glad to hear that Khanter is not using faculties in that way particularly given that people tend to use words negatively when they are unhappy. I honestly do not like the use of that language enough to post my concerns about it no matter what the discussion is. Generally people simply continue the discussion without those words given that it is very easy to use alternatives that do not carry that meaning and it is not something I hold against anyone.

[Queen Yuno]

@Onder
Yeah, he used “many means” not “all means”
he didn’t know he was supposed to contact the Statsminister (you) since none of the several government officials he asked had told him to do that. I would have spammed the heck out of the main discord chat if it were me (not everyone knows to do that.) I guess he's complaining because he asked multiple staff members for an answer, and was not pointed to the 1 person with the answer, and got impatient because it's been a month. It's trivial though, we're killing time by analyzing NationStates because it's NationStates, lol
There's no harm coming out of that. Best solution is to forgive each other, all parties.

@Solorni,
well, good to clear that up, I too dislike slang words like "retard" and try not to get slips of the tongue..
But here, Khanter never used the "retard" word, he used "Faculties" which I read as "tools" when he said he had the faculties as a Beta Tester to see if his discord messages were read. So glad to clear that up.
I've never heard of the word Faculty being used in a mental capacity context, but alas English is also my second language.
I was linked this: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faculty

Glad such a small discussion about "Finding Waldo" didn't delve where it shouldn't delve.

[Cormactopia Prime]

It would be great if we could accept it when someone whose first language isn't English says they didn't mean something in an insulting way. Especially when multiple people are attesting that they know the person, and they wouldn't have intended to use it in that way. Stop the smearing.

Seriously, Balder needs to grow up and not respond to any tiny criticism with deflection and smear campaigns. This isn't junior high.

[RiderSyl]

It would be great if we could accept it when someone whose first language isn't English says they didn't mean something in an insulting way.

I'm with Cormac on this.

[KhanterWinters]

We should not turn this minor matter into anything bigger than it actually is.

And even then there was time dedicated to questioning the vocabulary used.

And although it may not seem like it, Balder despite being in first place in alphabetical order, my time in NS is dedicated to many other tasks. The first weeks I was on the lookout, but now that I went back to review the forum, out of the simple curiosity that caused me to know the "change" of government, and with precedents of response, I decided to try my luck and see if I received the expected response. But we are here with banalities of the vocabulary used.

It is unfortunate if you think that it is easy to oppose such language or that arguments for better decorum cannot be made on their own. I have consistently been opposed to similar insults despite their wide use:

NSGP

XXX 10/12/2018
Also Souls' statement still reads retardedly in regards to me
And is inaccurate at best
The Mighty Solorni 10/12/2018
that's not a nice word :stuck_out_tongue:
XXX 10/12/2018
It's the accurate one.
The Mighty Solorni 10/12/2018
the R word XXX >.>

Osiris Discord

Glitterkitten [Me] Last Wednesday at 4:41 PM

Although not a fan of the r word

I cannot recall another person considering my well known opposition to such language to be "trying to use it against them". It is possible to have discussions without resorting to such insults. So I am glad to hear that Khanter is not using faculties in that way particularly given that people tend to use words negatively when they are unhappy. I honestly do not like the use of that language enough to post my concerns about it no matter what the discussion is. Generally people simply continue the discussion without those words given that it is very easy to use alternatives that do not carry that meaning and it is not something I hold against anyone.

I told you in private, but I think I'm going to repeat it, since I'm not responsible for the use you can give to the history and screenshots.

Faculties is not direct evolved with Mental issues. In fact, it can encompass mental issues, but only if mention is made of it.

KhanterWintersToday at 17:13
To insult mental capabilities I use the direct word for it like retard now called "R-Word", and still is not an insult. People use it as insult but is a mental state of low mental capabilities. I use direct words, The time I dedicate to this, I do not like to spend time putting glitter and rainbow words to sound friendly with "The Simpsons" Style (the meme of all by the hand and with a rainbow singing and happy) and of dubious origin. I use direct vocabulary. The communication should not be adorned, it must be direct, and concise.

For people to use vocabulary to offend, does not mean that vocabulary in origin is offensive.

KhanterWintersToday at 17:23
I can spend all day here. In the end only those who want to see the negative will see the negative.

Obviously I do not put yours, because I do not have the interest to ask permission to publish our discussion. You have very clear what my position is. And as I told you. When I published, I was not in a bad mood. But thanks to your insistence to try to show me that I've been offensive, let's say that my tone is a bit more serious now.

And excuse me but not excuse me Solorni. I will not cover words just because it could be "offensive" to a few. For me is more offensive to cover or censor an statement or word, that say the things directly and clear. You do not stop using a word or stuff just because it could possible have a "mean" meaning. Because unlike a whole word, we do not all know the gentile abbreviations that are usually invented so as not to "offend".

Especially when multiple people are attesting that they know the person, and they wouldn't have intended to use it in that way.

Who is curious, can talk to me. I am who I am in the same way with some people as with others. Even my "Enemies" on the platform can not deny that when I speak, I am direct. And that I always ask for grammatical revision. My time here is extensive, but I am not one of those who create characters alters to reality, my mind and my way of acting is the same here in my day to day at home, at work or on the street.

But with all this, I am clear that I must wait a few more days, or weeks. <--- Actually Drama helped. "yay" (edited)

This post has not a Proof Grammar of no-one.

[Solorni]

It would be great if we could accept it when someone whose first language isn't English says they didn't mean something in an insulting way.

This is a great point but it is not actually applicable to this discussion:

So I am glad to hear that Khanter is not using faculties in that way particularly given that people tend to use words negatively when they are unhappy.

This isn't junior high.

I do not know about your Junior High, but mine was pretty bad for using insults that typically referred to people with special needs and people who were not straight. So I would say that it is important that we do try to avoid having a junior high type experience.

[Onder Kelkia]

@Onder
Yeah, he used “many means” not “all means”
he didn’t know he was supposed to contact the Statsminister (you) since none of the several government officials he asked had told him to do that. I would have spammed the heck out of the main discord chat if it were me (not everyone knows to do that.) I guess he's complaining because he asked multiple staff members for an answer, and was not pointed to the 1 person with the answer, and got impatient because it's been a month. It's trivial though, we're killing time by analyzing NationStates because it's NationStates, lol
There's no harm coming out of that. Best solution is to forgive each other, all parties.

First, on the basis of his statements in this thread, Khanter did not contact "several government officials". He attempted contact with only one member of the government (Theoden Sebastian), who was on a leave of absence due to losing his home internet access. The Queen is not a member of Balder's government, which is separate from the monarchy, and has no role in the internal administration of any ministry, including the Foreign Ministry. Bran Triune is currently a member of Balder's government, but he joined only after I appointed him to the Cabinet on 14th October. Bran Triune advises me that Khanter contacted him roughly a month ago. This suggests that the only government member that Khanter contacted was Theoden Sebastian. That is not several. In any case, I would have thought it obvious that, if the Foreign Minister is non-responsive, the Statsminister as their superior is the best port of call.

Second, the more important point, as I highlighted in my previous post, is that the new Foreign Minister - who had been in office for 2 weeks prior to Khanter posting in this thread - was not contacted before Khanter posted in this thread to complain specifically about ""the New MoFA" not responding to him, and without specifying what his query was. Indeed, it would have been utterly impossible to answer Khanter's query on the basis of his first post as he did not even mention that it was about Balder's ambassador to TWP. There was no effort to contact Zander Cerebella as the new Minister of Foreign Affairs. If there was any non-responsiveness, it was due to the absence of Theoden Sebastian, who was replaced some time ago by Zander Cerebella, who was not contacted. It would have been far more appropriate to contact Zander than to randomly make a post criticising Zander when he had not been contacted.

I am more than happy to forgive and forget this minor matter, but not to accept inaccuracies which are then used to criticise Balder by others.

[KhanterWinters]

First, on the basis of his statements in this thread, Khanter did not contact "several government officials". He attempted contact with only one member of the government (Theoden Sebastian), who was on a leave of absence due to losing his home internet access. The Queen is not a member of Balder's government, which is separate from the monarchy, and has no role in the internal administration of any ministry, including the Foreign Ministry. Bran Triune is currently a member of Balder's government, but he joined only after I appointed him to the Cabinet on 14th October. Bran Triune advises me that Khanter contacted him roughly a month ago. This suggests that the only government member that Khanter contacted was Theoden Sebastian. That is not several. In any case, I would have thought it obvious that, if the Foreign Minister is non-responsive, the Statsminister as their superior is the best port of call.

Oh! Now I am Mad.
I was about to leave this but:

- The Queen is not a member of Balder's government, which is separate from the monarchy, and has no role in the internal administration of any ministry, including the Foreign Ministry.

What kind of Region is this if their Delegate does not know what is going on in the Region. So it's just a statue, obviously with administrative power and decision-making but simply a representative figure who does not know what is happening in his region? That is ,she does not know who enters, who leaves, who puts in the government, who allows access to the material of the interior ministry or the ministry of foreign relations.

I can understand that real life is more important than the game itself, but forgive that it differs with this, it just makes me an absurd excuse, why not then she did not tell me with whom to address ?, Clearly, has no role administrative therefore does not have the responsibility to answer those questions.

I mean, I already have the answer I wanted, I was going to leave this for peace, but it seems that you do your best to say that a small thing should not be made big and minutes later you continue.

So explain me with the right words even if they sound offensive to others.

Please.

(minor edit of typ0s)

[Unibot III]

It's a shame Balder doesn't process foreign affairs requests as quickly as it does shitposts.

[Onder Kelkia]

Oh! Now I am Mad.
I was about to leave this but:

- The Queen is not a member of Balder's government, which is separate from the monarchy, and has no role in the internal administration of any ministry, including the Foreign Ministry.

What kind of Region is this if their Delegate does not know what is going on in the Region. So it's just a statue, obviously with administrative power and decision-making but simply a representative figure who does not know what is happening in his region?

It is well known that Balder is a constitutional monarchy with a separation of functions between the delegate and the executive government.

The allocation of ambassadors is squarely outwith the Delegate's remit. It's the kind of administrative issue that a head of state, who is separate from the government, would not be involved with. Asking the Queen about the internal clerical work of a ministry she is uninvolved with is pretty much the same as asking any citizen of Balder about it (as you in fact did with Bran Triune). It should not be portrayed as you contacting several members of the government.

If you had a query about who should be contacted, then that would have been best dealt with on our forums (or our Discord server). In any case, after the 14th October, when a new Foreign Minister was in place, it should have been obvious that Zander was the right person to contact before posting here.

it seems that you do your best to say that a small thing should not be made big and minutes later you continue.

I have corrected further inaccuracies, yes.

It is a small thing, but some have sadly used it to falsely portray the Government of Balder as non-responsive to queries (see the above post for example). In fact, there was a real-life situation involving a former minister, who was replaced some time ago, and whose successor was not contacted about the matter.

[Solorni]

. Asking the Queen about the internal clerical work of a ministry she is uninvolved with is pretty much the same as asking any citizen of Balder about it (as you in fact did with Bran Triune). It should not be portrayed as you contacting several members of the government.

Looking back at the logs of it, I never considered it a formal request to the delegacy given that I was also asked who the ambassador from Europeia was in the same request. So I considered it an informal request to me as a friend. Secondly I was likely busy at the time and due to something that had made me very uncomfortable at the time though not Khanters fault at all, I had also likely been avoiding people.

[The Holy Principality of Saint Mark]

To Her Majesty, His Highness and The Honorable Statsminister,

The West Pacific has enjoyed an excellent relationship with The Realm of Balder. We have supported each other culturally, politically and militarily. We are allies.

Allies should be able to expect certain behaviors from each other and should be able to call the other out when this behavior is not what is received.

Our Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs did not receive the behavior one would expect from an ally. Ignoring his simple request for information for such a long time after he attempted to obtain a response through multiple channels is inconsiderate.

Sometimes a region’s procedures and communications fail and sometimes an individual may be distracted by important issues elsewhere. This is understandable. When called upon, an ally will seek to make amends.

This situation has gotten out of hand. We are sorry that this came up on a public forum rather than being addressed privately between allies.

The West Pacific and our Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs are owed an explanation and an apology.

[Onder Kelkia]

To Her Majesty, His Highness and The Honorable Statsminister,

The West Pacific has enjoyed an excellent relationship with The Realm of Balder. We have supported each other culturally, politically and militarily. We are allies.

Allies should be able to expect certain behaviors from each other and should be able to call the other out when this behavior is not what is received.

Our Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs did not receive the behavior one would expect from an ally. Ignoring his simple request for information for such a long time after he attempted to obtain a response through multiple channels is inconsiderate.

Sometimes a region’s procedures and communications fail and sometimes an individual may be distracted by important issues elsewhere. This is understandable. When called upon, an ally will seek to make amends.

This situation has gotten out of hand. We are sorry that this came up on a public forum rather than being addressed privately between allies.

The West Pacific and our Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs are owed an explanation and an apology.

The statement is noted and the Government will provide a formal response within the next 1-2 days.

[Mr Bubbly]

Far too much credence is being paid here. The so-called government of Balder, couldn't find it's own ass with both hands and a written guide. Everyone knows that Balder is Onders own little personal dictatorship, and Rach seems to be okay with that, so why is this being made out to be more than it really is? If Europeia was smart the first thing they would do is dump Balder on it's head and withdraw from that whole Joint Command crap, and then we could see just how powerful Balder really is. My bets are on Onder feasting on enough crow to feed Africa, and the rash of apologies to long term allies would be enough to crash the server.

[Malphe]

Far too much credence is being paid here. The so-called government of Balder, couldn't find it's own ass with both hands and a written guide. Everyone knows that Balder is Onders own little personal dictatorship, and Rach seems to be okay with that, so why is this being made out to be more than it really is? If Europeia was smart the first thing they would do is dump Balder on it's head and withdraw from that whole Joint Command crap, and then we could see just how powerful Balder really is. My bets are on Onder feasting on enough crow to feed Africa, and the rash of apologies to long term allies would be enough to crash the server.

Sorry if I'm out of the loop, but who exactly are you? If you don't have the balls to say what the rest of GP has been parroting for ages with your main then I don't know what to tell you. I'd just own it.

[Kyorgia]

I really didnt think the discussion could get more pointless then the TRR one but congrats it happened. At least we can all agree that Oud-Heverlee Leuven was the last legitimate delegate of the rejected realms. God be with him.

[Wabbitslayah]

I really didnt think the discussion could get more pointless then the TRR one but congrats it happened. At least we can all agree that Oud-Heverlee Leuven was the last legitimate delegate of the rejected realms. God be with him.

Gott mit ihm. Gott mit uns.

[Syberis]

It's a shame Balder doesn't process foreign affairs requests as quickly as it does shitposts.

I can tell you it processes Osiris' classified internal affairs and communications as quickly as it does shitposts. >_>

<_<

Did I say that? Oops.

[Consular]

I cannot recall another person considering my well known opposition to such language to be "trying to use it against them".

Maybe your reputation ain't as shiny as you think it is

[Mr Bubbly]

I cannot recall another person considering my well known opposition to such language to be "trying to use it against them".

Maybe your reputation ain't as shiny as you think it is

Given the enlightenment of these conversations it certainly calls Rach's commendation into question now doesn't it, given that Unicorn was a high level member of Europeia's government and all? I am also curious as to where Europe stands on this situation with the WALL treaty and all of that jazz. Perhaps a little Krulltopia treatment is in order and someone should lose a badge?

[Lord Dominator]

Maybe your reputation ain't as shiny as you think it is

Given the enlightenment of these conversations it certainly calls Rach's commendation into question now doesn't it, given that Unicorn was a high level member of Europeia's government and all? I am also curious as to where Europe stands on this situation with the WALL treaty and all of that jazz. Perhaps a little Krulltopia treatment is in order and someone should lose a badge?

Perhaps a little telling of the puppet-master behind you is in order?

[Aexnidaral]

Maybe your reputation ain't as shiny as you think it is

Given the enlightenment of these conversations it certainly calls Rach's commendation into question now doesn't it, given that Unicorn was a high level member of Europeia's government and all? I am also curious as to where Europe stands on this situation with the WALL treaty and all of that jazz. Perhaps a little Krulltopia treatment is in order and someone should lose a badge?

At the time of Rach's commendation Unicorn/r3n hadn't been a "high level" or even... member of Europeia's Government for quite some time, iirc.

[Midnight Indo]

Nice leak.



(TapaTalk strikes again!)

(This puppet needed to post something)