Consular wrote:Can I just say that unlike half of the people you accuse of this, I legitimately do support a coup of Balder.
This is something that I would... be interested in.
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by Onder Kelkia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:23 am
Flanderlion wrote:Only issue with Balder's PNGs the way I see it is a lack of a super easy way of differentiating between OOC PNGs and IC ones, but I'm sure you can find out easily if you were checking.
by RiderSyl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:09 am
Onder Kelkia wrote:There are distinct groups for persona non grata and banned individuals. Persona non grata declarations are imposed by the Government, rather than the administrative team, typically where a non-citizen is deemed to have made comments or performed actions which are hostile to Balder in nature from a gameplay perspective. It is a routine process for sanctioning such persons and is usually done without fanfare.
by Onder Kelkia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:02 am
RiderSyl wrote:Onder Kelkia wrote:There are distinct groups for persona non grata and banned individuals. Persona non grata declarations are imposed by the Government, rather than the administrative team, typically where a non-citizen is deemed to have made comments or performed actions which are hostile to Balder in nature from a gameplay perspective. It is a routine process for sanctioning such persons and is usually done without fanfare.
In order to PNG Wym, however, one must set the bar for "comments or performed actions which are hostile to Balder" so low that it saps all meaning from the act of persona non grata declarations. Whomever in Balder is responsible for the Wym declaration has declawed any future declarations, and reduced a Balder PNG to a simple IC ban that only someone that really wanted to participate in Balder would care about.
RiderSyl wrote:If you haven't noticed, Onder, the amount of people that fit that criteria is dropping fast, in part due to perceived government mismanagement like this.
This only harms Balder itself.
by Altinsane » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:17 am
by Onder Kelkia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:39 am
Altinsane wrote:Wym's PNG is petty on absurd levels. He's legitimately just a good kid. Wym was a citizen of Balder when he made that comment. This is a statement that he made in mid-April that went entirely in acknowledged until the end of May, after he'd lost citizenship. He just got quietly proscribed for something a month after the fact for a comment he made in passing critiquing Balder's support of the LWU coup on Lazarus.
What in the blue blazes. He certainly wasn't an empowered citizen. He was someone you were waiting in the shadows to stab at as soon as his protection ended because you had beef over a tiny comment.
by Pergamon » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:40 am
Onder Kelkia wrote:The purpose of a persona non grata declaration in Balder is to prevent access to our forums and Discord server for those who are hostile to Balder.
by RiderSyl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:47 am
Onder Kelkia wrote:The purpose of a persona non grata declaration in Balder is to prevent access to our forums and Discord server for those who are hostile to Balder. We have never expected persona non grata declarations to provide any other kind of deterrent effect, largely because that is not how people in NationStates work.
Onder Kelkia wrote:If any person chooses to be antagonistic to Balder, then they should not expect us to welcome them on our territory. We don't welcome those who insult us.
Onder Kelkia wrote:The purpose is practical. Anyone who speaks or acts in a manner which is unfriendly or antagonistic to Balder is liable to banned. It has worked like this way for years. Wymondham's case is not exceptional. I know little about him, but we judge actions and comments objectively. In any case, his behaviour since the persona non grata declaration, not least the appalling post about IJCC for which he apologised to Europeia, assures me that the decision was correct.
Onder Kelkia wrote:You are assuming that Balder is losing potential members that we actually want by turning off the armchair critics here in the Gameplay forum.
We manage quite well without.
Onder Kelkia wrote:Balder draws in members who can commit to being consistently and unconditionally loyal to our region and its external position. For the most part, Balder is uninterested in motivating existing cosmopolitan members of other gameplay regions (be they UCR or GCR) to join us, with the exception of those individuals who have pre-existing respect for Balder and our values (and, however loud critics from disgruntled regions moan, there remains a constituency of players who have respect for Balder, in addition to the steady, organic flow of citizenship applications we receive from revived nations). The Government of Balder designs policies to engage and serve our own community, not to subjugate ourselves to the social structure of the gameplay community at large.
by Onder Kelkia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:12 am
Pergamon wrote:You made your bed.
RiderSyl wrote:Onder Kelkia wrote:You are assuming that Balder is losing potential members that we actually want by turning off the armchair critics here in the Gameplay forum.
We manage quite well without.
You are increasing the amount of armchair critics of Balder that exist, and thus reducing the amount of potential members. What if I told you I was considering applying for citizenship in Balder prior to this mess?
by Syberis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:13 am
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by Onder Kelkia » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:23 am
Syberis wrote:Daily reminder that the Osiris treaty fell apart because Balder blew a minor criticism of Euro's treaty texts out of proportion, and refused to back down when called out on it.
by Cormactopia Prime » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:30 am
by DYP » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:31 am
Onder Kelkia wrote:The Government of Balder's position should now be clear on all factual and other points, so I am not intending to indulge this discussion any further.
by RiderSyl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:33 am
Onder Kelkia wrote:I can tell you that you very likely would have been denied in view of comments you have made regarding Balder and its allies in the past. Even if your recent commentary has been broadly more favourable, it would have been equally difficult to be confident about your long-term loyalties.
In all honesty, I have denied applications from individuals with much less history of criticising Balder and its allies throughout their careers.
Onder Kelkia wrote:Fundamentally, our target audience is not existing cosmopolitan players from other gameplay regions (whether UCRs or GCRs), unless their careers demonstrate their willingness to be consistently loyal to Balder and its external position whatever the trends in NSGP are. We are happy without.
Onder Kelkia wrote:The Government of Balder's position should now be clear on all factual and other points, so I am not intending to indulge this discussion any further.
by Syberis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:33 am
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by RiderSyl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:34 am
Syberis wrote:Apparently Balder has been aware of my disdain longer than I have, as I haven't really been disdainful of the region as a whole until Onder and NES' meltdown over the treaty.
by Cormactopia Prime » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:36 am
RiderSyl wrote:Onder Kelkia wrote:I can tell you that you very likely would have been denied in view of comments you have made regarding Balder and its allies in the past. Even if your recent commentary has been broadly more favourable, it would have been equally difficult to be confident about your long-term loyalties.
In all honesty, I have denied applications from individuals with much less history of criticising Balder and its allies throughout their careers.
Do you not realize the risk to Balder? Less and less differing opinions on how the region should be run leads to a larger and larger organizational blind spot, with more people sharing the same exact deficits in perspective. The fact nobody thought twice about the Wym PNG is evidence of this in effect.Onder Kelkia wrote:Fundamentally, our target audience is not existing cosmopolitan players from other gameplay regions (whether UCRs or GCRs), unless their careers demonstrate their willingness to be consistently loyal to Balder and its external position whatever the trends in NSGP are. We are happy without.
Ignorance is bliss, I'm afraid. You may convince yourself that you are just excluding cosmo players, but you're excluding regionalists that could aid Balder as well. Regionalists whose views do not align near-identically with pre-existing views in Balder.
by RiderSyl » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:37 am
Cormactopia Prime wrote:He doesn't care. None of this is about what's best for Balder, it's about what's best for his userite ideology and agenda. What's unfortunate is how transparently obvious that is, but rather than doing something about it, Solorni -- who has given years to Balder -- has allowed herself to be coopted into "leading" the IJCC instead of doing what's best for Balder and finally removing Onder and his ilk from the positions they use to advance foreign interests.
by Syberis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:38 am
RiderSyl wrote:Cormactopia Prime wrote:He doesn't care. None of this is about what's best for Balder, it's about what's best for his userite ideology and agenda. What's unfortunate is how transparently obvious that is, but rather than doing something about it, Solorni -- who has given years to Balder -- has allowed herself to be coopted into "leading" the IJCC instead of doing what's best for Balder and finally removing Onder and his ilk from the positions they use to advance foreign interests.
The man who killed the LKE is going to kill Balder.
It's really a shame.
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by Syberis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am
Zaolat wrote:WHO THE F*** IS SYBERIS
by Altinsane » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:09 pm
by Cormactopia Prime » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:24 pm
Altinsane wrote:Sad. As I told Balderans, they played the imperialist game, and they lost. If that's the sort of thing you're going to dabble around in, you have to watch your back - it's too easy to become a tool of someone else. They found themselves in a moment of weakness, needed extra help, and the help did what imperialists do. It's a shame that one bleak moment has stretched into years of inactivity, stagnancy, and bended knees at the behest of LKE. Sad now that they so adamantly argue that this is stability. Stable is a two-fold word. Solorni's position in Balder is stable, certainly, but the word is also a measure of health. Balder is not healthy. It's been deteriorating for years. I don't think any of us are going to have any luck convincing Onder to let his trophies go. But I hope the best for Balder. Change is hard, but when it works, it's breathtaking; something that both of Balder's most closely related sister Sinkers can attest. Your home shouldn't be a place that you're fed up with, saddled by, feel silenced in, or have to apologize for. But that isn't how it has to be, and I hope Balder chooses better. In the mean time, I'm done talking to Onder. It's been thrilling to watch him rehash creative new retellings of the same stories, but you can only listen to so many versions before you can guess what happens next. Good luck out there. If you need me, I'm around.
by Tim-Opolis » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:12 pm
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic
by The Church of Satan » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:30 pm
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