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The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Marilyn Manson Freaks
Diplomat
 
Posts: 731
Founded: Jul 05, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Marilyn Manson Freaks » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:20 pm

A mean old man wrote:(Image)

Welcome back, lmao.
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Here are some things I've authored.

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Lord Dominator
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6105
Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Beauty indeed.
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Pierconium
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Posts: 1217
Founded: Antiquity
Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:27 pm

A mean old man wrote:(Image)

The best post I have seen in a while.

This should just be a lesson to anyone intimidated by the supposed ‘power’ of the so-called families. Lots of bark, not much bite.

It’s all a bit messy, honestly. Why is there no finesse in NS villainy any longer?
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Stellar Colonies
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Posts: 1544
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Oct 14, 2019 9:30 pm

TEP update is relatively soon.
Day 188 of 'Stay-At-Home Order'

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies / the Confederation of Human Systems is a confederation which loosely unites a third of the Milky Way galaxy.

The WA embassy within the Confederacy is at Ida Station (243 Ida in the Sol System), a Confederate member state which joined the WA to represent Confederate interests.

An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.

If you want a mental image of me: Straight, white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

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Feu de Glace
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Posts: 20
Founded: Mar 22, 2016
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Feu de Glace » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:31 pm

A mean old man wrote:(Image)

I needed this, thank you.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2454
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Well, this sure has been interesting. In closing, I would just like to make a few final points:

1. Congratulations to the natives of The East Pacific on a well earned victory over veteran "elites" who didn't last longer than a day. The dedication TEP's natives showed to the region, the speed in which they responded to unendorsement campaigns, etc., is testament to the underlying strength of TEP, and I hope in the coming days and weeks you'll channel that strength into making the reforms necessary to ensure nothing like this ever happens again.

2. I think this coup was the most incompetent display I've ever seen from gameplayers who purportedly know what they're doing, the so-called "elites" who in some cases have been playing this game longer than some players have been alive. I hope this will be a lesson to newer players that often the "elites," myself included, are not all we're cracked up to be, and you can in fact challenge us and make an impact on this game. So do it.

3. I really can't emphasize this enough: I told you all so, I told you repeatedly, and boy was I right about everything. That is reward enough for me.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Pharcyde
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Posts: 88
Founded: Feb 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The Pharcyde » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:36 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:2. I think this was the most incompetent display I've ever seen from gameplayers who purportedly know what they're doing, the so-called "elites" who in some cases have been playing this game longer than some players have been alive. I hope this will be a lesson to newer players that often the "elites," myself included, are not all we're cracked up to be, and you can in fact challenge us and make an impact on this game. So do it.

Challenge accepted. :)
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Guy
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Posts: 1764
Founded: Oct 05, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Guy » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:46 pm

Unibot III wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:Can you literally just stop talking, stop undermining TSP's treaty ally while it's being couped, and stop undermining your own government's response?

Why TSP continues to tolerate you in any role beyond resident is beyond me. You are nothing but a liability and headache for them. If you're ever again elected Minister of Foreign Affairs, or anything else for that matter, after this deplorable reaction to a coup in an allied region, that will be appalling.

Occasionally, it is okay to avail yourself of the opportunity to shut the hell up and leave it to the people actually elected to respond.


There's a bit more to it than this. The alliance, as Glen has said, is a multilateral one. TSP was thrown off guard when TRR showed no interest in reviewing the treaty - the TRR FA Minister flipflopped when they realized their delegate, rather than being opposed, was on board with Scardino's radical policies. Kyorgia's TRR embraced the LWU crowd with open arms, rejected attempts to express condemnation at any and all of the obvious canaries in the coal mine, and established an ill-timed Arts Festival. It was at that point that I chastised certain TRR officials in public for not doing what TRR traditionally was expected to do (defend democratic values), and Guy/Kyorgia et. al. claimed I knew "nothing" of the region's foreign policy and its governing philosophy.

None of this is true whatsoever, and every single claim outright false, aside from the fact that the arts festival was mistimed.

One is always placed in a difficult situation when confidential discussions are misrepresented, because you cannot refute them. Without going into TSP's position, TRR's position was always that native ejections were a negative step for TEP, and we had been at high alert for the possibility of a coup since June. Since RO powers were removed from Viziers 10 days ago, TRR has been in constant contact with them, taking joint proactive steps.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way that TRR's administration went about addressing Fedele's delegacy. We got results done. Our early representations resulted in native ejections almost completely stopping. And, importantly, we have worked hard to ensure that any coup is defeated. I'll take this over your libelous gossip.
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The Miniluv Messenger
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Posts: 44
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby The Miniluv Messenger » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:49 pm

Following liberation of The East Pacific, over the next few days (and probably weeks), the Miniluv Messenger will be engaging in a "post-mortem" analysis, which will consider what went wrong with the coup and what went right with the resistance, as well as disclosing and dissecting never before seen logs from the coup planning chat courtesy of one of its participants, as well as reporting on the aftermath effects in TEP and elsewhere.

Stay tuned!
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El Fiji Grande
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 474
Founded: Jan 11, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby El Fiji Grande » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:50 pm

Well said, Cormac!
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Greater Saint-Paul
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 13
Founded: Jan 21, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Greater Saint-Paul » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:03 pm

Report from a NPA Private on the frontline:
This was a damn well exiting activity. For 4 hours +, I’ve been endorsing, supporting, cheering, trying to boost the morale and keep the war effort going, as my NPA comrades silently endorsed the victors. For my first mission, I’d say its been a really fun experience and I couldn’t have asked for better comrades in the fray, fighting shoulder to shoulder with me. In the end, I’d say Cormac summed up our feat pretty well. Remember this: whenever democracy is violated in our ally regions, deliverance will come, and it will come hitting hard
Last edited by Greater Saint-Paul on Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Stellar Colonies
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Posts: 1544
Founded: Mar 27, 2017
New York Times Democracy

Postby Stellar Colonies » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:06 pm

https://www.nationstates.net/region=the ... #p36670156

As you can see, emotions were running hot during the final moments and beyond.
Day 188 of 'Stay-At-Home Order'

Native of The East Pacific and Northern California


Stellar Colonies / the Confederation of Human Systems is a confederation which loosely unites a third of the Milky Way galaxy.

The WA embassy within the Confederacy is at Ida Station (243 Ida in the Sol System), a Confederate member state which joined the WA to represent Confederate interests.

An Incomplete List of Ida's Interpretations of WA Resolutions

Add 3000 years for the date I use.

If you want a mental image of me: Straight, white male.

I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.

Also, I'm diagnosed as a high-functioning autistic.

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Queen Yuno
Diplomat
 
Posts: 690
Founded: Dec 30, 2015
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Queen Yuno » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:11 pm

Ahahaha that meme is hilarious

@AMOM
Anyway, I'm so glad people realized the ban is stupid ^_^

That makes me happy

Again, I hold 0 grudges, the admin who banned me has apologized to me for his mistake, it's whatever
Last edited by Queen Yuno on Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Vote early, vote often." -Pallaith
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:
Galiantus III wrote:


...is there a reason the logo for the anti-NPO New Year's jumpers looks like the butt and legs of a kneeling naked lady? :unsure:


Imperium Anglorum wrote:Lol badge hunting accusations against people who already have the badge. You don't get your whole page covered in badges when you pass more resolutions, you know.


Vancouvia wrote:
Vancouvia wrote:

Alright my bad I guess I'll check back in December 21st


No way

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Verdrassil
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Feb 16, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Verdrassil » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:18 pm

A free TEP is cool and epic. I can't wait for us to gain subscribers.

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Frattastan IV
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 153
Founded: Sep 02, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Frattastan IV » Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:35 pm

Guy wrote:
Unibot III wrote:
There's a bit more to it than this. The alliance, as Glen has said, is a multilateral one. TSP was thrown off guard when TRR showed no interest in reviewing the treaty - the TRR FA Minister flipflopped when they realized their delegate, rather than being opposed, was on board with Scardino's radical policies. Kyorgia's TRR embraced the LWU crowd with open arms, rejected attempts to express condemnation at any and all of the obvious canaries in the coal mine, and established an ill-timed Arts Festival. It was at that point that I chastised certain TRR officials in public for not doing what TRR traditionally was expected to do (defend democratic values), and Guy/Kyorgia et. al. claimed I knew "nothing" of the region's foreign policy and its governing philosophy.

None of this is true whatsoever, and every single claim outright false, aside from the fact that the arts festival was mistimed.

One is always placed in a difficult situation when confidential discussions are misrepresented, because you cannot refute them. Without going into TSP's position, TRR's position was always that native ejections were a negative step for TEP, and we had been at high alert for the possibility of a coup since June. Since RO powers were removed from Viziers 10 days ago, TRR has been in constant contact with them, taking joint proactive steps.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way that TRR's administration went about addressing Fedele's delegacy. We got results done. Our early representations resulted in native ejections almost completely stopping. And, importantly, we have worked hard to ensure that any coup is defeated. I'll take this over your libelous gossip.


What Guy said. You are completely misinformed: there was no disagreement between the delegate and the FA officer. Kyorgia was concerned about Fedele and didn't see him as anything other than a threat to democracy in TEP for as long as the matter was discussed.


Unibot III wrote:TSP would have likely have taken a stiffer response earlier if TRR had been willing to back it up in tandem.

So you would've rather seen the dissolution of the alliance with TEP and us taking the stance that there was little to 'salvage' - a terrible attitude which wouldn't have helped TEP at all.
Last edited by Frattastan IV on Mon Oct 14, 2019 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Rejected Realms Army, High Commander

Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.

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Great Algerstonia
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 393
Founded: Mar 21, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Great Algerstonia » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:56 am

Hail Marrabuk! We won! :lol:
Read this signature at your own risk.

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LONG LIVE THE EMPIRE

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Aleister
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Oct 26, 2016
Father Knows Best State

Postby Aleister » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:37 am

Tim was isolated from the actual group chat since like July maybe earlier, so unless the logs aren't from him... :roll:

But if you want to know why it failed, hit me up! I'm just as baffled in a lot of ways at the performance.

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Buranda
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 5
Founded: Jul 20, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Buranda » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:54 am

Queen Yuno wrote:Ahahaha that meme is hilarious

@AMOM
Anyway, I'm so glad people realized the ban is stupid ^_^

That makes me happy

Again, I hold 0 grudges, the admin who banned me has apologized to me for his mistake, it's whatever

It's one hell of a mistake...

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5871
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Unibot III » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:20 am

Frattastan IV wrote:
Guy wrote:None of this is true whatsoever, and every single claim outright false, aside from the fact that the arts festival was mistimed.

One is always placed in a difficult situation when confidential discussions are misrepresented, because you cannot refute them. Without going into TSP's position, TRR's position was always that native ejections were a negative step for TEP, and we had been at high alert for the possibility of a coup since June. Since RO powers were removed from Viziers 10 days ago, TRR has been in constant contact with them, taking joint proactive steps.

I'm sorry if you don't like the way that TRR's administration went about addressing Fedele's delegacy. We got results done. Our early representations resulted in native ejections almost completely stopping. And, importantly, we have worked hard to ensure that any coup is defeated. I'll take this over your libelous gossip.


What Guy said. You are completely misinformed: there was no disagreement between the delegate and the FA officer. Kyorgia was concerned about Fedele and didn't see him as anything other than a threat to democracy in TEP for as long as the matter was discussed.


Unibot III wrote:TSP would have likely have taken a stiffer response earlier if TRR had been willing to back it up in tandem.

So you would've rather seen the dissolution of the alliance with TEP and us taking the stance that there was little to 'salvage' - a terrible attitude which wouldn't have helped TEP at all.


These are lies - boldfaced lies. It was made clear to TSP that TRR's Delegate didn't favour intervention with TEP case - they threw their hands up in the air in frustration with TRR. Kyorgia then launched in a public tirade about how his government differed from past TRR governments and would not intervene in TEP to make "flashy" scene. Now TSP is being called upon to explain why it didn't take a strong stance when their ally, TRR, was privately and publicly refusing to intervene, but now claims retroactively to have been intervening regardless and holding a dim view of a government it was enthusiastically embracing and entertaining.
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The Notorious Mad Jack
Diplomat
 
Posts: 535
Founded: Nov 05, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Notorious Mad Jack » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:31 am

Unibot III wrote:
Frattastan IV wrote:
What Guy said. You are completely misinformed: there was no disagreement between the delegate and the FA officer. Kyorgia was concerned about Fedele and didn't see him as anything other than a threat to democracy in TEP for as long as the matter was discussed.



So you would've rather seen the dissolution of the alliance with TEP and us taking the stance that there was little to 'salvage' - a terrible attitude which wouldn't have helped TEP at all.


These are lies - boldfaced lies. It was made clear to TSP that TRR's Delegate didn't favour intervention with TEP case - they threw their hands up in the air in frustration with TRR. Kyorgia then launched in a public tirade about how his government differed from past TRR governments and would not intervene in TEP to make "flashy" scene. Now TSP is being called upon to explain why it didn't take a strong stance when their ally, TRR, was privately and publicly refusing to intervene, but now claims retroactively to have been intervening regardless and holding a dim view of a government it was enthusiastically embracing and entertaining.

I'm sure we'd all be interested to know how someone banned from both TSP and TRR knows so much about what I assume are private discussions between two governments. Care to enlighten the class as to how you came about this information?
Totally not MadJack, though I hear he's incredibly smart and handsome.

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Frattastan IV
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 153
Founded: Sep 02, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Frattastan IV » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:08 am

Unibot III wrote:These are lies - boldfaced lies. It was made clear to TSP that TRR's Delegate didn't favour intervention with TEP case - they threw their hands up in the air in frustration with TRR. Kyorgia then launched in a public tirade about how his government differed from past TRR governments and would not intervene in TEP to make "flashy" scene. Now TSP is being called upon to explain why it didn't take a strong stance when their ally, TRR, was privately and publicly refusing to intervene, but now claims retroactively to have been intervening regardless and holding a dim view of a government it was enthusiastically embracing and entertaining.


You think that Kyo embraced LWU because you rely on people who aren't well informed and you have a tendency to exaggerate any tiny rumour.

There was a lot of attention to the situation in TEP and a lot of thought was put into it. GR argues that the treaty should have been ended because TEP had turned into a Rahl outpost that couldn't be saved. Which: (1) wasn't true, as hopefully Fedele's demise and TEP's future can prove; (2) is a terrible response to take when dealing with a vulnerable ally (you are "abandoning" them, voiding any coup-deterrence effect the treaty might have, creating bad feelings with TEP natives in general, ...). Yep, TRR was so awful that it gave TEP one more treatied ally (TSP) to call on when the time came. Big deal.

The public condemnation had no positive effect on the situation. The main consequence was to make many TEP citizens - including security officials and old guard - close ranks with their government and stick their heads in the sand (East Malaysia's "all is well in TEP"). It happened with a TSP-only statement and would have been the same with a TSP-TRR one. "Stiffer action" like ending the treaty could've been even worse: it would have meant accepting that the region was an LWU stomping ground and done nothing to solve the situation. There was no intervention (an interesting euphemism for reneging on defence commitments) that was going to throw Fedele out other than internal opposition from the people of The East Pacific itself.

TRR did signal its concern for the purges and the border control appointments to the parties that mattered. It did signal that it would stick by the security provisions of the treaty (which yes, are designed against coups too). We had an unassailable conduct towards TEP that couldn't be exploited later on to argue that we were their 'enemies'. The coup happened, and it has been defeated. We opposed it and won some goodwill, and hopefully TEP can be a free region again now.

The government stuck to its strategy and it paid off despite your attempts at shaming them into compliance with your will, and it deserves credit for that. Foresight and fortitude. I couldn't hope for more.
Rejected Realms Army, High Commander

Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.

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Jazksrkeal
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 28, 2018
New York Times Democracy

Postby Jazksrkeal » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:14 am

The Notorious Mad Jack wrote:I'm sure we'd all be interested to know how someone banned from both TSP and TRR knows so much about what I assume are private discussions between two governments. Care to enlighten the class as to how you came about this information?
Not entirely unprecedent that someone in either government told him, so no need to say more.

While I can't claim to have been privy to any talks I think I can claim to have some insight into TRR, and I would find it hard to believe the portrayal of Kyorgia as a raider boogeyman and LWU/Couper enabler considering what I've read about the TEP debacle.

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Frattastan IV
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 153
Founded: Sep 02, 2018
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Frattastan IV » Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:26 am

Unibot III wrote:Now TSP is being called upon to explain why it didn't take a strong stance

Also, about this, no-one here is wondering why "TSP didn't take a strong stance". Maybe it's different in TSP's political debate, but I don't see anyone in this thread or in TEP's leadership wishing that TSP had shut down their alliance. If anything, the negative comments are about GR's remarks.

But if somewhere there is someone attacking TSP for being 'soft on Fedele' (a suggestion which is almost as stupid as when people said that TRR was soft on the NPO) then, sure, feel free to dump that blame on TRR or Kyorgia the Raider.
Last edited by Frattastan IV on Tue Oct 15, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Rejected Realms Army, High Commander

Draganisia wrote:Also it seems the next war could be NPO fighting directly against Pacifica.

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Numero Capitan
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 486
Founded: Sep 27, 2007
Father Knows Best State

Postby Numero Capitan » Tue Oct 15, 2019 12:15 pm

TSP and TRR played this perfectly*, as well as most other regions involved in this. If they had been more aggressive early on it would have given the Fedele regime an easy propaganda win that would have kept more natives onside for longer. When Fedele overstepped in a big way the only enemy of TEP was clearly the now unlawful regime, when foreign militaries intervened they were acting against an unlawful delegate, not just a bad one with terrible policies and a questionable inner circle. They delivered an effective and unified response that deterred support for Fedele from anyone outside their inner circle. Any criticism of that is laughable and appears mostly personal.

* the official approach of each government.
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The Pharcyde
Attaché
 
Posts: 88
Founded: Feb 15, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby The Pharcyde » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:58 pm

Unibot III wrote:Now TSP is being called upon to explain why it didn't take a strong stance

Besides you, who are the players making these calls?
Last edited by The Pharcyde on Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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