The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all. Everyone turns out to be incapable of asking questions before shooting. Or a liar. Or worse.

[Aclion]

To be honest, this does all make sense but at the same time, it just sounds like a wild conspiracy theory.

I don't know, to be honest.

I just... don't. It's a bit confusing.

/shrug

People said the same thing when LWU did this very thing in Lazarus, as Cormac has said already and when we repeatedly pointed it out they just said:


These are not the coupers you're looking for.

So consider this, if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.

At this point any region that allows LWUs to be in positions of trust deserves whatever they get.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all.

Well, if that's the case that's really boring, and they should go found an RP region or something.

[Jar Wattinree]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all.

Well, if that's the case that's really boring, and they should go found an RP region or something.

Don't see any point to it since they already have active RP communities.

[Numero Capitan]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all. Everyone turns out to be incapable of asking questions before shooting. Or a liar. Or worse.

Maybe its the regular posters to blame...

Viewing profile - Klaus Devestatorie
Most active forum:Gameplay
(1368 Posts / 54.03% of user’s posts)

[Ikania]

Why does this seem so familiar?

[Jar Wattinree]

Why does this seem so familiar?

Probably because things have a tendency to be cyclic?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all. Everyone turns out to be incapable of asking questions before shooting. Or a liar. Or worse.

Maybe its the regular posters to blame...

Viewing profile - Klaus Devestatorie
Most active forum:Gameplay
(1368 Posts / 54.03% of user’s posts)

Over the space of 11 years? Doubt it registers.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all.

Well, if that's the case that's really boring, and they should go found an RP region or something.

That'll be more or less what many of these regions are converting to.

[Escade]

OMG there's a festival going on. It's like every time a festival happens, somewhere a baby deer survives or something adorable like that.



Let's not malign festivals as the reason gameplay has declined when the reality is there are a host of other reasons mostly with how much players suck and not in an interesting way (here are some alternate adjectives to "not interesting": boring, whiny, incompetent, etc the list goes on). Oh god, someone calling someone boring is now a form of toxicity. And we wonder why GP is dead...

Look, everyone! The big boss is here to outdo his young wolf cub's terrible defense of the indefensible with fortune cookie arguments.

FINALLY ... I was waiting for Evil Cub's identity drop...it was Amaros all along? That was unexpected...and kind of not as SURPRISE as I thought it would be. :sadface:

Addendum: Further proof that GP is dead!?!? Is that how this argument functions?

I wouldn't read too much into this, nor necessarily expect any official reply at all, or much beyond a brief one. TEP is not alone among feeders, or regions in general, in having more or less recently taken a stance of just...ignoring GP. The mindset basically assumes that most people will move on from the scandal du jour/it will fizzle out pretty quickly, and those who will care will be powerless to do more than send angry messages. Look around - how many regions now substantially respond to even the most grounded and evidenced criticism? Hell, TSP'ers made it a campaign platform. You may or may not recall a situation where TEP and TWP both made this concept an abundantly clear reality to me in the past.

I'd assume TEP is still among this view, that the best reply is not replying.

Tangentially, this whole "not caring at all about any form of accountability or PR because why the fuck should you when you're so entrenched they can't do anything" is probably somewhere between a cause of and a canary for GP being terribly stale, but that's a whole different topic.

Agree with the part I bolded.

Also like there was like this one summer, where half the time all I remember doing was sniping at Souls and company. Are those now the good old days? So confuzzled.




P.S. Have we moved past the era of reporting people for using "oversized images" or "GIFs" or whatever or should I expect some regressive behavior

P.P.S. I love shock value titles, like movie trailer that promise "explosions" but this feels more like the same old. Is this how the directors of the Fast and Furious franchise feel when they're like, "wth are we going to do in this one that outweighs the taking down a plane with motorcycles thing?"

[Borovan entered the region as he]

yawns marsupials r bad not the ppl no wa or even a altered flag

[Tim-Opolis]

Let's not malign festivals as the reason gameplay has declined when the reality is there are a host of other reasons mostly with how much players suck and not in an interesting way...

Festivals aren't necessarily the problem, but they're a symptom of a GP culture that's unwilling to engage in any actual politics or conflict, choosing rather to alternate between being one big happy circlejerk and being a bunch of regions who resent each other but aren't willing to do anything about it. Festivals should by no means be the primary tool of Foreign Affairs policy in regions, and they should be supplementary activities built into a more developed and worthwhile relationship between regions.

[Elfine]

I hate to report this but all is well in the East.

No, all is not well in TEP.. I think I can say that, as a former government official who has been following events in the East closely. Frankly, want to know the reason I left? Maybe because my three best friends in that region were purged, two of them on false OOC charges and one because of extreme emotional manipulation. Maybe because every last Yunoist is being driven out of the region. Or maybe because there's a clear silent coup in the process, one I was too dumb to see before it's too late.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the nonsense coming from Fedele and his ilk. All is not well in TEP.

AMEN BROTHER, AMEN.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Let's not malign festivals as the reason gameplay has declined when the reality is there are a host of other reasons mostly with how much players suck and not in an interesting way...

Festivals aren't necessarily the problem, but they're a symptom of a GP culture that's unwilling to engage in any actual politics or conflict, choosing rather to alternate between being one big happy circlejerk and being a bunch of regions who resent each other but aren't willing to do anything about it. Festivals should by no means be the primary tool of Foreign Affairs policy in regions, and they should be supplementary activities built into a more developed and worthwhile relationship between regions.

This. All of this. I wasn't saying festivals are bad, I was saying only doing festivals and conferences is bad. I usually participate in festivals as well, and I enjoy them, but what's going wrong in this game is that everyone is tuning out the game itself and focusing exclusively on socializing. And then they wonder why everything is so petty and personal. Everything is petty and personal because that's all that's left, when there is no game, only socializing.

This situation also leaves people open to all kinds of OOC social manipulation, some of it relatively benign, some of it not so much. It's just not healthy.

That said, this tangent mostly has nothing to do with what's happening in TEP. It has to do with the response, or lack of response, to it. Or to anything.

[Unibot III]

Festivals aren't necessarily the problem, but they're a symptom of a GP culture that's unwilling to engage in any actual politics or conflict, choosing rather to alternate between being one big happy circlejerk and being a bunch of regions who resent each other but aren't willing to do anything about it. Festivals should by no means be the primary tool of Foreign Affairs policy in regions, and they should be supplementary activities built into a more developed and worthwhile relationship between regions.

This. All of this. I wasn't saying festivals are bad, I was saying only doing festivals and conferences is bad. I usually participate in festivals as well, and I enjoy them, but what's going wrong in this game is that everyone is tuning out the game itself and focusing exclusively on socializing. And then they wonder why everything is so petty and personal. Everything is petty and personal because that's all that's left, when there is no game, only socializing.

This situation also leaves people open to all kinds of OOC social manipulation, some of it relatively benign, some of it not so much. It's just not healthy.

That said, this tangent mostly has nothing to do with what's happening in TEP. It has to do with the response, or lack of response, to it. Or to anything.

Social festivals = bad. Political conferences and messy multilateral treaty-making = fun.

[New Rogernomics]

Maybe it's because regions perceived as traditionally being part of "gameplay" are starting to wise up to the fact that there's absolutely zero benefit to participating in gameplay in general, never mind this particular wart of a subforum. No benefits to becoming invested in overseas affairs at all. Everyone turns out to be incapable of asking questions before shooting. Or a liar. Or worse.

You've been there to experience the Ascendancy vs Europeia thing ages back. That was really the last time any regions had a major war of words, to the point it drew in game mods to cool it down. Modern gameplay is dull by comparison.

Players cheered and pat themselves on the back when hardcore gameplay died, and a few dry regions came to dominate the game. Only now are people trying to resurrect that past gameplay that really engaged people - and I am not sure if that is realistic due to how recruitment has changed. Best wishes to those who try though.

The regions that really put flavor and infamy into the game are dead, as no one wants to offend anyone else or play anything but good cop - with some exceptions like when regions are couped or raided.

But for really engaging gameplay to work you need regions that constantly offend others, and not because they are RP Nazis or whatever, but instead because they threaten the status quo painly - to the point even dry regions must respond militarily and diplomatically. The game needs more pariahs and not more knights in shinning armor. Get that change and no one will need to make threads about why gameplay might be dying.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Social festivals = bad. Political conferences and messy multilateral treaty-making = fun.

Agreed. I wasn't referring to those types of conferences, but more what the NSWF became (compared to what it was originally, which was more political).

But for really engaging gameplay to work you need regions that constantly offend others, and not because they are RP Nazis or whatever, but instead because they threaten the status quo painly - to the point even dry regions must respond militarily and diplomatically. The game needs more pariahs and not more knights in shinning armor. Get that change and no one will need to make threads about why gameplay might be dying.

I'm not really sure I buy this. Most people don't bother to react anymore when people do unpopular things, like piling their foreign friends into a Feeder to help them subvert it. Raids still happen. Coups still happen. What's changed is there's a lack of ideological/political engagement with any of it.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

You've been there to experience the Ascendancy vs Europeia thing ages back. That was really the last time any regions had a major war of words, to the point it drew in game mods to cool it down. Modern gameplay is dull by comparison.

There is nothing in this game that so spectacularly frustrates me more than the discovery, a couple years ago, that I had been on the wrong side of that fight.

Players cheered and pat themselves on the back when hardcore gameplay died, and a few dry regions came to dominate the game. Only now are people trying to resurrect that past gameplay that really engaged people - and I am not sure if that is realistic due to how recruitment has changed. Best wishes to those who try though.

The regions that really put flavor and infamy into the game are dead, as no one wants to offend anyone else or play anything but good cop - with some exceptions like when regions are couped or raided.

But for really engaging gameplay to work you need regions that constantly offend others, and not because they are RP Nazis or whatever, but instead because they threaten the status quo painly - to the point even dry regions must respond militarily and diplomatically. The game needs more pariahs and not more knights in shinning armor. Get that change and no one will need to make threads about why gameplay might be dying.

The problem is that a villain has to be willing. Not many groups fit into that mould. The NLO (and very specifically the NLO, not the NPO), Gatesville, Empire, Aeazen Combine, TBR. That's kinda it. They were all different types and levels of villain, but they were the only willing ones. Otherwise, people just usually quit.

[Escade]

Festivals aren't necessarily the problem, but they're a symptom of a GP culture that's unwilling to engage in any actual politics or conflict, choosing rather to alternate between being one big happy circlejerk and being a bunch of regions who resent each other but aren't willing to do anything about it. Festivals should by no means be the primary tool of Foreign Affairs policy in regions, and they should be supplementary activities built into a more developed and worthwhile relationship between regions.

This. All of this. I wasn't saying festivals are bad, I was saying only doing festivals and conferences is bad. I usually participate in festivals as well, and I enjoy them, but what's going wrong in this game is that everyone is tuning out the game itself and focusing exclusively on socializing. And then they wonder why everything is so petty and personal. Everything is petty and personal because that's all that's left, when there is no game, only socializing.

This situation also leaves people open to all kinds of OOC social manipulation, some of it relatively benign, some of it not so much. It's just not healthy.

That said, this tangent mostly has nothing to do with what's happening in TEP. It has to do with the response, or lack of response, to it. Or to anything.

Yes, tangent I'd say it was the Puppet Epidemic of 2018 that really signified the end of times to come.

Honestly, I enjoy festivals but also think they are kind of used in lieu of foreign relations(when a region says they need to throw a festival bc its required my eyebrows are like oh my) than their real purposes which can be:
1. getting to know the people of a region and whether or not you vibe together to move forward
(also addendum getting people in your region who are against relations to thaw)

2. socializing and actually creating more activity (whether for smaller regions or regions in need of activity boosts or just research on what people in your region want to do for fun)(especially if you can get players to work together, most of the players I've met who I like working with was through their activity\competence and teamwork <3)

3. when you can't do anything interesting like start a war because everyone's against that then at least you can party

4. some other reasons that I've articulated elsewhere that sound smart but I can't remember right now

The idea of forcing festivals for boring reasons or because its contractually obligated sounds as fun as the phrase "contractually obligated."

As for what is going on TEP, I have absolute no clue. This GIF defines my cluelessness about it:


People plotting things don't generally tell me because I get super nervous (like is the FBI watching me listen to this plotting type stuff nervous) and like I just send them gifs of kittens until they decide I'm slow.

I still haven't decided what IC role I'm playing in the game right now (so many options to choose from good, evil, or like just engage in delicious mischievousness - and with how broken GP is I might as well make a puppet something really secretive like "Dark Side Escade" and roleplay all the angles).

Also like, OMG guys is something actually happening in GP? Like someone totes spill the tea...

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You've been there to experience the Ascendancy vs Europeia thing ages back. That was really the last time any regions had a major war of words, to the point it drew in game mods to cool it down. Modern gameplay is dull by comparison.

There is nothing in this game that so spectacularly frustrates me more than the discovery, a couple years ago, that I had been on the wrong side of that fight.

Players cheered and pat themselves on the back when hardcore gameplay died, and a few dry regions came to dominate the game. Only now are people trying to resurrect that past gameplay that really engaged people - and I am not sure if that is realistic due to how recruitment has changed. Best wishes to those who try though.

The regions that really put flavor and infamy into the game are dead, as no one wants to offend anyone else or play anything but good cop - with some exceptions like when regions are couped or raided.

But for really engaging gameplay to work you need regions that constantly offend others, and not because they are RP Nazis or whatever, but instead because they threaten the status quo painly - to the point even dry regions must respond militarily and diplomatically. The game needs more pariahs and not more knights in shinning armor. Get that change and no one will need to make threads about why gameplay might be dying.

The problem is that a villain has to be willing. Not many groups fit into that mould. The NLO (and very specifically the NLO, not the NPO), Gatesville, Empire, Aeazen Combine, TBR. That's kinda it. They were all different types and levels of villain, but they were the only willing ones. Otherwise, people just usually quit.

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

There is nothing in this game that so spectacularly frustrates me more than the discovery, a couple years ago, that I had been on the wrong side of that fight.



The problem is that a villain has to be willing. Not many groups fit into that mould. The NLO (and very specifically the NLO, not the NPO), Gatesville, Empire, Aeazen Combine, TBR. That's kinda it. They were all different types and levels of villain, but they were the only willing ones. Otherwise, people just usually quit.

Be the change you wish to see in the world.

I don't have the time to invest in it, or I'd probably already be doing it.

[Guy]

I am loathe to lecture experienced players on what gameplay needs, but I have to say that as the years go by, the less convinced I am that more conflict!! is the solution to NS' woes. Particularly, I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between interregional and intraregional conflict. While the former has some role to play (particularly through military gameplay), I've found the latter completely not conducive to the good running of a region.

A region is at its most active when its members are willing to put in the hard yards towards a shared objective. Culture is not some airy fairy excuse for people to stick in their manifestoes once in a while - in a great sense, it's what makes a region. Its culture can include its military stance.

Regional politics dramaz, such as people getting into each other (especially over relatively meaningless stuff), forming cults of personality, factionalisation etc is not what makes a good region, and not even an active one in the long-run. Major internal disagreements about the direction of the region are also not necessarily sustainable in the long-run, unless some sort of accord that everyone can live with is reached.

Indeed, what regions need is sustainable activity; and sustainable activity is rarely, if ever, driven by widespread internal conflict. People contribute the most when they agree with what the region is, what is stands for, and enjoy playing a game with their fellow regional members. The region is far more a cooperative than a place for conflict.

This is not to say that a region needs to be a singular hivemind where everyone thinks the same and members do not have their own ideas to contribute. Competition over positions is good, because (at least in the absence of factionalisation) it means that elected officials are pushed to do their best to retain positions, and the voters are likely to elect the person with the best ideas and execution.

[New Rogernomics]

I am loathe to lecture experienced players on what gameplay needs, but I have to say that as the years go by, the less convinced I am that more conflict!! is the solution to NS' woes. Particularly, I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between interregional and intraregional conflict. While the former has some role to play (particularly through military gameplay), I've found the latter completely not conducive to the good running of a region.

I think it is more of a mix of some conflict when understandable, and an effort to make some region concept that is unique and/or improves gameplay for players. That can mean culture and ideology, but also can mean being a welcoming place to help players get started and learn the game.

I can only speak to my own experience, but when I joined the game I found GCRs far too big, and wanted a small region that wasn't just a smaller clone of bigger UCRs, to make a difference in and be a part of. I found that, and I hope new players still can find that.

But longer term, you'll still need generic/dry regions that are always stable and just grow. We already have an overabundance of those in the game. Though what it needs now is regions that stand out, and more ways to engage players in the game - and factions will be useful in that regard when it is implemented.

Sometimes regions can play too safe and not be willing to play with government types and establish their own regional lore as well - not just outright culture like festivals. I've found this with a lot of regions, which just keep everything the same and are afraid to make mistakes.

[Cormactopia Prime]

I am loathe to lecture experienced players on what gameplay needs, but I have to say that as the years go by, the less convinced I am that more conflict!! is the solution to NS' woes. Particularly, I think it's worthwhile to distinguish between interregional and intraregional conflict. While the former has some role to play (particularly through military gameplay), I've found the latter completely not conducive to the good running of a region.

Just to be clear, when I call for conflict I'm consistently calling for interregional, not intraregional, conflict.

While I've sometimes engaged in intraregional conflict (most have, whether they like it or not, because sometimes in a region you care about you can't avoid conflict), I've never been a fan of it, which is why I've helped take radical steps in Osiris twice to put a stop to our most destructive conflicts.

That said, there are some folks who believe intraregional political conflict, as long as it doesn't explode into intraregional military conflict (i.e., a coup or civil war, which isn't even possible in most stable UCRs), is healthy. For example, this used to be a major tenet of Europeia and imperialist regions like TNI and The LKE, and for all I know it's still important to them. To each their own. I've certainly never found it to be healthy in the regions in which I've participated, but Europeia and the imperialist regions do seem to handle it better. Perhaps that is in fact because intraregional military conflict is totally impossible in their regions, so they're forced to come to political terms with each other either by decisively winning elections or legislative victories, or compromising. Or maybe it works for them for some other reason. In any event, the point is I don't feel like it's my place or anyone else's to tell them that doesn't work for them and they should stop doing it, but overall I agree with you that intraregional conflict is risky and often, but not always, unhealthy.

[Armaros]

Look, everyone! The big boss is here to outdo his young wolf cub's terrible defense of the indefensible with fortune cookie arguments.

FINALLY ... I was waiting for Evil Cub's identity drop...it was Amaros all along? That was unexpected...and kind of not as SURPRISE as I thought it would be. :sadface:

I am by far not adorable enough to be Evil Cub.