The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Entendre Cordial]

I hate to report this but all is well in the East.

No, all is not well in TEP.. I think I can say that, as a former government official who has been following events in the East closely. Frankly, want to know the reason I left? Maybe because my three best friends in that region were purged, two of them on false OOC charges and one because of extreme emotional manipulation. Maybe because every last Yunoist is being driven out of the region. Or maybe because there's a clear silent coup in the process, one I was too dumb to see before it's too late.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the nonsense coming from Fedele and his ilk. All is not well in TEP.

The rhetoric and choice of words surrounding the expulsion of so-called "marsupials" has been rather disquieting. It's one thing to RP as a totalitarian or dictatorial state; it's another to carry it as far as gathering an entire region to scapegoat and trash fellow players for essentially nothing, while using the discursive tactics of genocidal regimes. Yes, this is a browser game and not mid-90s Rwanda, so my use of that phrase is a bit over the top. Point me at the lie, though. At the very least, creepy-as-fuck RP is creepy-as-fuck RP.

[Queen Yuno]

No, all is not well in TEP.. I think I can say that, as a former government official who has been following events in the East closely. Frankly, want to know the reason I left? Maybe because my three best friends in that region were purged, two of them on false OOC charges and one because of extreme emotional manipulation. Maybe because every last Yunoist is being driven out of the region. Or maybe because there's a clear silent coup in the process, one I was too dumb to see before it's too late.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the nonsense coming from Fedele and his ilk. All is not well in TEP.

The rhetoric and choice of words surrounding the expulsion of so-called "marsupials" has been rather disquieting. It's one thing to RP as a totalitarian or dictatorial state; it's another to carry it as far as gathering an entire region to scapegoat and trash fellow players for essentially nothing, while using the discursive tactics of genocidal regimes. Yes, this is a browser game and not mid-90s Rwanda, so my use of that phrase is a bit over the top. Point me at the lie, though. At the very least, creepy-as-fuck RP is creepy-as-fuck RP.

[EDIT]
All right, as long as you're referring to the marsupial Roleplay being creepy, and not talking about MY Roleplays, I'm good ^-^
I only do Nation RPs. (And act as a cartographer.)

@UM, welp that sucks
When you stayed in TEP for a few months (despite my absence,) then retired, I wondered why did you do that? Now I know... I hope you find a good community that does not do any "extreme emotional manipulation" because that thing happens too often and drives many people out. It happened to me in the past and it happened to many people. Stay safe ^^

[RiderSyl]

The rhetoric and choice of words surrounding the expulsion of so-called "marsupials" has been rather disquieting.

That's an understatement.

[Devi]

No, all is not well in TEP.. I think I can say that, as a former government official who has been following events in the East closely. Frankly, want to know the reason I left? Maybe because my three best friends in that region were purged, two of them on false OOC charges and one because of extreme emotional manipulation. Maybe because every last Yunoist is being driven out of the region. Or maybe because there's a clear silent coup in the process, one I was too dumb to see before it's too late.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the nonsense coming from Fedele and his ilk. All is not well in TEP.

The rhetoric and choice of words surrounding the expulsion of so-called "marsupials" has been rather disquieting. It's one thing to RP as a totalitarian or dictatorial state; it's another to carry it as far as gathering an entire region to scapegoat and trash fellow players for essentially nothing, while using the discursive tactics of genocidal regimes. Yes, this is a browser game and not mid-90s Rwanda, so my use of that phrase is a bit over the top. Point me at the lie, though. At the very least, creepy-as-fuck RP is creepy-as-fuck RP.

Ohh boy. Ask Fedele about his marsupial dispatch sometime. It's definitely a, uh, pleasant read.

[Ramaeus]

Scardino and company once again sinking to new lows. Can they go lower? Probably. But they're already so thoroughly destroyed the region that they can't do too much more without at least some movement from the international community.

Considering its current state, I'm glad I've left that region. It used to be a vibrant community. It's now dead. Little more than ash.

Edit:

With all due respect, TEP is smaller than Balder, your legislature is down to six people, and your elections are riddled with foreign votes. Known coupers who are in your Delegate's raider region have Border Control, and your Delegate is close with Empire members who couped TEP in 2008. All is not well.

You forgot to mention: several votes were invalidated, several high profile members have either left the region or were banned, and a candidate was left off the ballot (see here: https://forum.theeastpacific.com/electi ... 16165.html). I could go on, but I don't want to write an essay.

[Armaros]

Purging inactive nations who never contribute doesn’t sound like a horrible crime to me.

It's a Feeder. People have the right to sit there and answer issues. Again, they're not doing anything at all to warrant being ejected and banned.

Yet they don't do anything to stay. Nor do they care, so why do you? They don't even care enough to slap a flag on their nation. I doubt they give a shit to where they are located.

Is that a bad thing per se? The delegate is elected, meaning they are entrusted with safeguarding the region. Since the delegate is trusted enough to be elected to safeguard a position which could threaten the region, they are trusted with approving Magisters as well. The Magisterium is no unimportant thing: a trusted community member approving new Magisters is not negative per se.

The Magisterium already has a mechanism to approve new members, which is that current Magisters vote to approve them or not. Surely you do see the problem with the Delegate essentially having the power to approve new members of the legislature, right? It's a separation of powers problem. The legislature is supposed to be a check on the Delegate's power, but if the Delegate has the power to decide who is admitted to the legislature, the Delegate can admit those who will support them and deny those who won't. The legislature would no longer be a check on the Delegate's power, it would just be a rubber stamp. That's a serious problem in a liberal democracy that relies on separation of powers to prevent autocracy.

So a trusted member of the community overseeing who is trusted enough to be given the most important security position in the region would become an autocrat?

None of this is an accident. All of this is designed to strip TEP of separation of powers and create laws they can easily exploit. It's Empire's specialty.

Remind me, when was the last time Empire did something? 2013? They're dead, but you keep seeing them in every shadow, a dark motive behind every move.

Yes, but who would you trust more: someone who is out using their WA in military operations for foreign regions, or someone with their WA in the region endorsing the delegate, aiding in providing stability and security to the region. While WA membership isn’t necessarily a sign of good will, it does weigh in.

Considering what we've seen in Lazarus in the recent past and now TEP, are you even seriously asking this question? WA commitment means nothing.

And yet, you'd rather trust someone who uses their WA in service to a foreign region to run your affairs?

I hate to report this but all is well in the East.

With all due respect, TEP is smaller than Balder, your legislature is down to six people, and your elections are riddled with foreign votes. Known coupers who are in your Delegate's raider region have Border Control, and your Delegate is close with Empire members who couped TEP in 2008. All is not well.

Being smaller because those hundreds of inactive nations are gone is a sign of being dead? Interesting to know. The legislature has been smaller then it is now, I believe, and as for "foreign votes": have you looked at any feeder? All feeders contain large numbers of foreign citizens. That does not automatically mean there is a coup plot going on, as you seem to suggest. And, for the record, no current members of Lone Wolves United, assuming you refer to them, currently hold Border Control in the East.

[RiderSyl]

Considering its current state, I'm glad I've left that region. It used to be a vibrant community. It's now dead. Little more than ash.

I remember those times. Making jokes about an Oedipus complex, while watching out for fridge owls, wearing the mandatory catsuits, sharpening the coup knives...

You were a good delegate during a good time in TEP, Ramaeus.

[Lord Dominator]

Aside from Fedele/Scardino, Kalif-masked Dave, and I understand that 'Alpha-Emirutus' Aleister in LWU region and Kalif-masked Funk both have/recently had BC as well.

[Armaros]

Aside from Fedele/Scardino, Kalif-masked Dave, and I understand that 'Alpha-Emirutus' Aleister in LWU region and Kalif-masked Funk both have/recently had BC as well.

How observant of you. Being so observant, you surely have seen they do not have access to the raiding channels, the server was jokingly renamed “RahLWU” and how serious this all is. As for “Alpha Emeritus”, the “Emeritus” part is there for a reason.

[RiderSyl]

Armaros, how long have you been in The East Pacific?

[Armaros]

Armaros, how long have you been in The East Pacific?

As a resident, about a month.

[Filia]

Aside from Fedele/Scardino, Kalif-masked Dave, and I understand that 'Alpha-Emirutus' Aleister in LWU region and Kalif-masked Funk both have/recently had BC as well.

How observant of you. Being so observant, you surely have seen they do not have access to the raiding channels, the server was jokingly renamed “RahLWU” and how serious this all is. As for “Alpha Emeritus”, the “Emeritus” part is there for a reason.

The LWU member playing off the involvement of other LWU members. Colour me shocked.

-devi

[Armaros]

How observant of you. Being so observant, you surely have seen they do not have access to the raiding channels, the server was jokingly renamed “RahLWU” and how serious this all is. As for “Alpha Emeritus”, the “Emeritus” part is there for a reason.

The LWU member playing off the involvement of other LWU members. Colour me shocked.

-devi

None of the individuals named, safe for Fedele, are currently masked as Wolf. It was a rather obvious joke, evidenced by the renaming of the server RahLWU, but apparently, some people don’t see humour, only vague conspiracies.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Armaros, how long have you been in The East Pacific?

As a resident, about a month.

This answer says a lot.

[Armaros]

As a resident, about a month.

This answer says a lot.

Does it? I, personally, am merely interested in correcting the false claim Lone Wolves United is destroying the place (or involved at all). But wouldn’t you say that, if Fedele was damaging the East so badly, the citizens of the East would speak up?

[Aclion]

Armaros, how long have you been in The East Pacific?

As a resident, about a month.

Jesus, I've been there longer than that.

Aside from Fedele/Scardino, Kalif-masked Dave, and I understand that 'Alpha-Emirutus' Aleister in LWU region and Kalif-masked Funk both have/recently had BC as well.

How observant of you. Being so observant, you surely have seen they do not have access to the raiding channels, the server was jokingly renamed “RahLWU” and how serious this all is. As for “Alpha Emeritus”, the “Emeritus” part is there for a reason.

"It's just a joke" Lazarus deja vu.

This answer says a lot.

Does it? I, personally, am merely interested in correcting the false claim Lone Wolves United is destroying the place (or involved at all). But wouldn’t you say that, if Fedele was damaging the East so badly, the citizens of the East would speak up?

As a citizen of the east i'll speak up, Fedele's administration has certainly been damaging in my area, the WA, as he will often go against the advice of the ministry and the will of the citizenry in order to pursue the interests of other regions.

[Cormactopia Prime]

This answer says a lot.

Does it? I, personally, am merely interested in correcting the false claim Lone Wolves United is destroying the place (or involved at all). But wouldn’t you say that, if Fedele was damaging the East so badly, the citizens of the East would speak up?

You're "correcting the false claim" by being a member of LWU who has applied for and been admitted to citizenship in TEP.

Edit: Those links don't appear to be working because Tapatalk sucks, so here are a couple screen shots.

[Armaros]

Does it? I, personally, am merely interested in correcting the false claim Lone Wolves United is destroying the place (or involved at all). But wouldn’t you say that, if Fedele was damaging the East so badly, the citizens of the East would speak up?

You're "correcting the false claim" by being a member of LWU who has applied for and been admitted to citizenship in TEP.

Edit: Those links don't appear to be working because Tapatalk sucks, so here are a couple screen shots.

...yes, and? Deciding to apply for citizenship in a region I'm a resident in and I already know a few folks in is... a revelation? Supposed to disprove my arguement? I am not entirely sure what you are getting at.

As a resident, about a month.

Jesus, I've been there longer than that.

Impressive. Remind me, how is the length of my residency relevant for the arguement?

How observant of you. Being so observant, you surely have seen they do not have access to the raiding channels, the server was jokingly renamed “RahLWU” and how serious this all is. As for “Alpha Emeritus”, the “Emeritus” part is there for a reason.

"It's just a joke" Lazarus deja vu.

Except last time the "it's just a joke" was pulled on Lazarus to troll Lazarus. Instead, this is intended to mock the "RahLWU" conspiracy theory within LWU, not intended to troll any other region. Now that is a talent for making completely unrelated comments and selling them as arguements.

Does it? I, personally, am merely interested in correcting the false claim Lone Wolves United is destroying the place (or involved at all). But wouldn’t you say that, if Fedele was damaging the East so badly, the citizens of the East would speak up?

As a citizen of the east i'll speak up, Fedele's administration has certainly been damaging in my area, the WA, as he will often go against the advice of the ministry and the will of the citizenry in order to pursue the interests of other regions.

As is your right. I do have to ask: on which resolutions did Fedele pursue the interests of other regions and which regions are you referring to?

[Cormactopia Prime]

...yes, and? Deciding to apply for citizenship in a region I'm a resident in and I already know a few folks in is... a revelation? Supposed to disprove my arguement? I am not entirely sure what you are getting at.

Sorry, but "pay no attention to all our friends streaming into the region" isn't even an argument people bought during the Lazarus crisis, it certainly isn't an argument people are going to buy after witnessing what went down in Lazarus. With this many of you flocking to TEP, it's clear what's happening.

[Frattastan IV]

Uhhh... purging inactive nations who do nothing at all is a sign of a declining region now? The NPO would have collapsed years ago if this was the case.

Purging inactive nations who never contribute doesn’t sound like a horrible crime to me.

Yet they don't do anything to stay. Nor do they care, so why do you? They don't even care enough to slap a flag on their nation. I doubt they give a shit to where they are located.

Setting aside whether it's acceptable to punish nations for lack of engagement, if kicking nations with the default flag is a centerpiece of your regional policy (with dispatches and officer appointments revolving around it) it's clear that you have some problem, because it's pointless. Most regions don't do that because putting effort into a meme is a waste of time.

There is also, last I checked, no law giving inactive residents who don't even bother to fix their own flags protection against purges.

The Concordat provides that nations may be ejected for "summary offenses" or after a conviction. The meaning of summary offense isn't defined, but in past discussions it was brought up that it should refer to 'self-evident' offenses like adspam of breaching the endocap. Of course there is no legal remedy for them since non-citizens cannot appeal ejections, so at the moment the question of whether 'marsupial purges' are lawful remains unaddressed.

Is that a bad thing per se? The delegate is elected, meaning they are entrusted with safeguarding the region.

That's not true in most regions, sorry. The delegate is tasked with running various aspects of regional government (diplomacy, culture, etc.). Security is usually entrusted to one or more separate bodies, with assorted security councils and guardians.
Plus, the Magisterium is the only body that can depose the delegate, so having the delegate control its membership would render that power meaningless. If you can see how entryism is bad, I'm sure you can see how sanctioned entryism is bad too.

So a trusted member of the community overseeing who is trusted enough to be given the most important security position in the region would become an autocrat?

A trusted member of the community can become an autocrat, yes. It's called a coup. Pixiedance was entrusted with the delegacy of TNP, Milograd with that of TSP, and Douria with that of Osiris.
That's why it's not actually "the most important security position" is any place with a coherent security framework.

You'd think that having tight restrictions on people making the laws for one of the feeders and subsequently the thousands of East Pacificans would be a good thing. So that, ya know, you don't get the opportunists in. Guess it must be a plot by the foreign subversives to make it harder for... foreign subversives to get in?

How to ensure regional security and genuine native representation is not a simple topic at all, and there have been endless debates about it. "Tight restrictions" are far from the long-established right answer to that. I mean, Aleister meets all those requirements, and given his background and general attitude he shouldn't even be in the Magisterium of Warzone Sandbox, much less in that of a Pacific. The fact that he's upset that people would question his loyalty because it's been a year since Lazarus and because he's been 'active' for a few weeks is lol-worthy, really.

You could probably meet all those requirements soon and you're utterly ignorant about TEP and NationStates in general, and doing no-one a favour with your posts here.

Yes, but who would you trust more: someone who is out using their WA in military operations for foreign regions, or someone with their WA in the region endorsing the delegate, aiding in providing stability and security to the region. While WA membership isn’t necessarily a sign of good will, it does weigh in.

WA membership is largely irrelevant, more so when talking about well-known players. It's a sign of "commitment"... to something. It's not a useful parameter to judge whether someone is a security risk: some people may be a threat or 'opportunists' and not have any 'foreign' organisations to refer to; some may be affiliated with organisations that have no military operations because they are dead; some may just be willing to commit their WA for a while because they know it will help them achieve their goals.

[Armaros]

...yes, and? Deciding to apply for citizenship in a region I'm a resident in and I already know a few folks in is... a revelation? Supposed to disprove my arguement? I am not entirely sure what you are getting at.

With this many of you flocking to TEP, it's clear what's happening.

Wolves currently a citizen in TEP:
-Fedele
-Lord Dominator
-me
You do have an interesting definition of "many", I will grant you that.

Sorry, but "pay no attention to all our friends streaming into the region" isn't even an argument people bought during the Lazarus crisis, it certainly isn't an argument people are going to buy after witnessing what went down in Lazarus.

Debatable.

Uhhh... purging inactive nations who do nothing at all is a sign of a declining region now? The NPO would have collapsed years ago if this was the case.

Purging inactive nations who never contribute doesn’t sound like a horrible crime to me.

Yet they don't do anything to stay. Nor do they care, so why do you? They don't even care enough to slap a flag on their nation. I doubt they give a shit to where they are located.

Setting aside whether it's acceptable to punish nations for lack of engagement, if kicking nations with the default flag is a centerpiece of your regional policy (with dispatches and officer appointments revolving around it) it's clear that you have some problem, because it's pointless. Most regions don't do that because putting effort into a meme is a waste of time.

Perhaps it is pointless. Does anyone care? The inactive people certainly don't.

There is also, last I checked, no law giving inactive residents who don't even bother to fix their own flags protection against purges.

The Concordat provides that nations may be ejected for "summary offenses" or after a conviction. The meaning of summary offense isn't defined, but in past discussions it was brought up that it should refer only to 'self-evident' apparently it's the distinction between "self-evident" offenses like adspam of breaching the endocap. Of course there is no legal remedy for them since non-citizens cannot appeal ejections, so at the moment the question of whether 'marsupial purges' are lawful remains unaddressed.

So in essence "no one knows wether it is illegal, and citizens haven't complained, but we're kicking a fuss anyway"

Is that a bad thing per se? The delegate is elected, meaning they are entrusted with safeguarding the region.

That's not true in most regions, sorry. The delegate is tasked with running various aspects of regional government (diplomacy, culture, etc.). Security is usually entrusted to one or more separate bodies, with assorted security councils and guardians.
Plus, the Magisterium is the only body that can depose the delegate, so having the delegate control its membership would render that power meaningless. If you can see how entryism is bad, I'm sure you can see how sanctioned entryism is bad too.

And yet the delegate is essential for security. While the Viziers do take care of security, you have to trust someone first to vote for them as delegate.

So a trusted member of the community overseeing who is trusted enough to be given the most important security position in the region would become an autocrat?

A trusted member of the community can become an autocrat, yes. It's called a coup. Pixiedance was entrusted with the delegacy of TNP, Milograd with that of TSP, and Douria with that of Osiris.
That's why it's not actually "the most important security position" is any place with a coherent security framework.

A fair point, I suppose. But, were a coup to happen, only the Viziers will be able to act anyway. If the delegate is willing to go as far as couping a region, I highly doubt he would listen to the Magisterium telling him to stop.

You'd think that having tight restrictions on people making the laws for one of the feeders and subsequently the thousands of East Pacificans would be a good thing. So that, ya know, you don't get the opportunists in. Guess it must be a plot by the foreign subversives to make it harder for... foreign subversives to get in?

How to ensure regional security and genuine native representation is not a simple topic at all, and there have been endless debates about it. "Tight restrictions" are far from the long-established right answer to that.

Correct, but tight restrictions do help.

You could probably meet all those requirements soon and you're utterly ignorant about TEP and NationStates in general, and doing no-one a favour with your posts here.

Incorrect. The Magisters would have to trust me first to actually allow me in. If I'm a random nobody, is it likely I will be allowed in by the Magisters? As for the "utterly ignorant about and NationStates in general", I don't believe you know me. Plus, it is rather pathetic that you have to resort to calling people you argue with "utterly ignorant" without knowing them.

and doing no-one a favour with your posts here.

From your perspective, presumably not, for rather obvious reasons.

Yes, but who would you trust more: someone who is out using their WA in military operations for foreign regions, or someone with their WA in the region endorsing the delegate, aiding in providing stability and security to the region. While WA membership isn’t necessarily a sign of good will, it does weigh in.

WA membership is largely irrelevant, more so when talking about well-known players. It's a sign of "commitment"... to something. It's not a useful parameter to judge whether someone is a security risk: some people may be a threat or 'opportunists' and not have any 'foreign' organisations to refer to; some may be affiliated with organisations that have no military operations because they are dead; some may just be willing to commit their WA for a while because they know it will help them achieve their goals.

Yes, I have listened to Cormac about this already, and WA commitment certainly isn't everything. Hence the other requirements.

[United Federated States of Omega]

A tiny legislature the delegate can ensure is filled with only his allies? Man, I am getting coup d'etat vibes from this. Combine that with a unique "culture" against "marsupials" (read natives) and I don't know how this isn't the perfect recipe for a coup. I'll say it now: anyone in TEP who believes in a democracy needs to step up to protect their region or accept that a coup is imminent.

[Cormactopia Prime]

A tiny legislature the delegate can ensure is filled with only his allies? Man, I am getting coup d'etat vibes from this. Combine that with a unique "culture" against "marsupials" (read natives) and I don't know how this isn't the perfect recipe for a coup. I'll say it now: anyone in TEP who believes in a democracy needs to step up to protect their region or accept that a coup is imminent.

The coup is already in progress. There is no reason to overthrow a region's government when you can fully take over by exploiting legal flaws.

[United Federated States of Omega]

The coup is already in progress. There is no reason to overthrow a region's government when you can fully take over by exploiting legal flaws.

Oh, the Lazarus method!

[Frattastan IV]

Perhaps it is pointless. Does anyone care? The inactive people certainly don't.

Maybe the active people should.

As for the "utterly ignorant about and NationStates in general", I don't believe you know me. Plus, it is rather pathetic that you have to resort to calling people you argue with "utterly ignorant" without knowing them.

Cool defense.

and doing no-one a favour with your posts here.

From your perspective, presumably not, for rather obvious reasons.

I meant from TEP's perspective. Even Fedele must find you annoying, because no-one wants to be "defended" in public by someone who gives all the wrong answers.