The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Solorni]

If we're going to investigate people based on their Empire ties in TSP, I feel like someone here has been throwing a bunch of red meat around to distract people from it. They've even done far more concrete stuff than Bel, if the Empire exists that is. I don't want to name any names though. But it's Cormac

[Cormactopia Prime]

If we're going to investigate people based on their Empire ties in TSP, I feel like someone here has been throwing a bunch of red meat around to distract people from it. They've even done far more concrete stuff than Bel, if the Empire exists that is. I don't want to name any names though. But it's Cormac

Of course, nevermind that they're now my enemies (and your allies). That's completely unimportant.

[Glen-Rhodes]

So you do, in fact, have secrets to keep.

Empire members have secrets about something, news at 11.

I'm regularly being told that Empire doesn't even really exist anymore, and definitely doesn't do anymore nefarious stuff nowadays, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Unibot III]

Unibot, I would be happy to face any and all criminal charges should the CRS wish to press such - I believe I am capable of proving my innocence in court. The CRS does not, however, seem to have any intention of doing so.

(1) Any past or current member of The South Pacific may lodge a criminal complaint against another individual within the jurisdiction of the South Pacific, or have such done on their behalf by a representative.

Hell, in theory I could lodge the criminal complaint against you. Certainly the justice system is not restricted to complaints from the CRS. From what I understand, the CRS is tied up in political gridlock.

[Westwind]

Empire members have secrets about something, news at 11.

I'm regularly being told that Empire doesn't even really exist anymore, and definitely doesn't do anymore nefarious stuff nowadays, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Shhhhhh.... be very very quiet. It's an open secret that The Empire no longer exists. It's much more interesting when everyone thinks The Empire is lurking everywhere.

Who lurks behind every plot and plan in NationStates ? The Shadow Knows! Why, did you know that The Empire also has subverted many major UCRs along with their influence throughout the GCRs? 'Cosmopolitans' have nothing on The Empire. *chuckles*

Signed, a former shadowy Empire member with tongue firmly planted in cheek. I also have some cheap waterfront property to sell......

[Glen-Rhodes]

Unibot, I would be happy to face any and all criminal charges should the CRS wish to press such - I believe I am capable of proving my innocence in court. The CRS does not, however, seem to have any intention of doing so.

(1) Any past or current member of The South Pacific may lodge a criminal complaint against another individual within the jurisdiction of the South Pacific, or have such done on their behalf by a representative.

Hell, in theory I could lodge the criminal complaint against you. Certainly the justice system is not restricted to complaints from the CRS. From what I understand, the CRS is tied up in political gridlock.

Not gonna comment on you specifically doing that. But it's funny, because wasn't that provision added at the behest of Belschaft, who wanted to ensure he could take the Cabinet to court if he was declared a security threat again?

[Biyah]

OMG, it honestly hurt to read this, I laughed so hard. I take it none of you have heard of late nights, (legal) narcotics and boredom? ROFL.

But sure, given the tameness of the logs.... assume I'm spinning. I mean, I have to be, cause I spent a 3am sleepless night poking fun at people for their melodramatics and paranoia.

Also, Glen-Rhodes, hugs and kisses dude. Of course we have secrets; even if nothing is going on right now, we have secrets regarding the past. That should be obvious, and I'm not stupid enough to confirm or deny anything based on your ultra-paranoia and penchant for not-so-subtle word games.

I know you have secrets too. I'll show you mine if you show the world yours. *winks*

Unless I've very much mistaken, Empire worked against the Milo/Mall/JAL-coup of TSP. Did they play a role in Hile's "coup"? Or are we appealing to ancient history here when we discuss their aggression towards TSP?

Well, no. Empire *members* worked against the TSP coups. I was in the central command for Osiris, working on the strategy. You can confirm that with, well, anyone who was there - but the most logical source is probably Elu. I wasn't even in the game for Hile's coup, and nobody I have spoken with said they were involved. So, yes, ancient history.

They (IE, Glen Rhodes) are appealing to an ultra hate of me, personally - not anything the Empire did to TSP.

~B

Edit: Hit reply too quickly by mistake.

[Cormactopia Prime]

They (IE, Glen Rhodes) are appealing to an ultra hate of me, personally - not anything the Empire did to TSP.

It has nothing to do with you personally. The Empire four have, altogether, perpetrated coups against four Feeders and Sinkers (TEP, TNP, TWP, and Osiris), assisted coups against two others (Lazarus and TSP), and attempted coups against another (TRR). That leaves only two Feeders and Sinkers that have been relatively untouched by Empire, and it probably isn't for lack of trying.

There is nothing odd or mean-spirited about TSP considering you four enemies of the state, or about anyone, anywhere, being concerned to see Empire core members directly influencing three Feeders and Sinkers and indirectly influencing others. What is odd, frankly, is that there is any Feeder or Sinker willing to let any of you in, and I regret that Osiris is among them because of poor decisions I and others made.

[Unibot III]

(1) Any past or current member of The South Pacific may lodge a criminal complaint against another individual within the jurisdiction of the South Pacific, or have such done on their behalf by a representative.

Hell, in theory I could lodge the criminal complaint against you. Certainly the justice system is not restricted to complaints from the CRS. From what I understand, the CRS is tied up in political gridlock.

Not gonna comment on you specifically doing that. But it's funny, because wasn't that provision added at the behest of Belschaft, who wanted to ensure he could take the Cabinet to court if he was declared a security threat again?

Bahaha.

[Biyah]

They (IE, Glen Rhodes) are appealing to an ultra hate of me, personally - not anything the Empire did to TSP.

It has nothing to do with you personally. The Empire four have, altogether, perpetrated coups against four Feeders and Sinkers (TEP, TNP, TWP, and Osiris), assisted coups against two others (Lazarus and TSP), and attempted coups against another (TRR). That leaves only two Feeders and Sinkers that have been relatively untouched by Empire, and it probably isn't for lack of trying.

There is nothing odd or mean-spirited about TSP considering you four enemies of the state, or about anyone, anywhere, being concerned to see Empire core members directly influencing three Feeders and Sinkers and indirectly influencing others. What is odd, frankly, is that there is any Feeder or Sinker willing to let any of you in, and I regret that Osiris is among them because of poor decisions I and others made.

What is absolutely fascinating about all this fluff is that you, personally, have conducted more coups and rebellions than Empire (as a whole or in separate) has - in reality AND as accused.

Cheers Brother-in-Law.

~B

[Cormactopia Prime]

What is absolutely fascinating about all this fluff is that you, personally, have conducted more coups and rebellions than Empire (as a whole or in separate) has - in reality AND as accused.

I've conducted four coups, assisted two others, and made other unsuccessful attempts? I think not. This is not even to mention that my coups have been confined to one region, rather than spread out among seven.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Unless I've very much mistaken, Empire worked against the Milo/Mall/JAL-coup of TSP. Did they play a role in Hile's "coup"? Or are we appealing to ancient history here when we discuss their aggression towards TSP?

Well, no. Empire *members* worked against the TSP coups. I was in the central command for Osiris, working on the strategy. You can confirm that with, well, anyone who was there - but the most logical source is probably Elu. I wasn't even in the game for Hile's coup, and nobody I have spoken with said they were involved. So, yes, ancient history.

They (IE, Glen Rhodes) are appealing to an ultra hate of me, personally - not anything the Empire did to TSP.

~B

Edit: Hit reply too quickly by mistake.

Indeed, thank you for the clarification. I wasn't sure if the group was involved or not for TSP, obviously I was aware of your involvement from Osiris' end. Fun times were had by all. I doubt any of Empire's members were involved with Hile's... "coup".

[Biyah]

What is absolutely fascinating about all this fluff is that you, personally, have conducted more coups and rebellions than Empire (as a whole or in separate) has - in reality AND as accused.

I've conducted four coups, assisted two others, and made other unsuccessful attempts? I think not. This is not even to mention that my coups have been confined to one region, rather than spread out among seven.

Tsk. You know as well as I do that the name Empire gets thrown around in accusation without any basis in fact. I am aware of ONE coup, TEP. You could call Osiris one, with the infamous men-in-tights assist, though it only lasted a day - so we'll call it two.

And, off for the day. Have fun dealing in more speculation, I'll read it tonight.

~B

[Glen-Rhodes]

Lol whats this about "they're doing this because they hate Biyah specifically" nonsense? Yeah, I think Osiris is a crap hole largely starting from the moment they didn't ban you for your coup. But TSP's run ins with Empire have been with Neenee, Dali, and their stooges like Wolf, and now NK. Biyah is an Osiris problem.

[Neenee]

Lol whats this about "they're doing this because they hate Biyah specifically" nonsense? Yeah, I think Osiris is a crap hole largely starting from the moment they didn't ban you for your coup. But TSP's run ins with Empire have been with Neenee, Dali, and their stooges like Wolf, and now NK. Biyah is an Osiris problem.

Wolf and NK were never anything that could be called a "stooge." That's actually fairly insulting to them and their abilities in general within NationStates.

Also, I'm a delight and terribly charming. It's weird that people may not want me around.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Tsk. You know as well as I do that the name Empire gets thrown around in accusation without any basis in fact. I am aware of ONE coup, TEP. You could call Osiris one, with the infamous men-in-tights assist, though it only lasted a day - so we'll call it two.

And, off for the day. Have fun dealing in more speculation, I'll read it tonight.

~B

Have you forgotten about the coup Dalimbar perpetrated against TNP, the coup you and Neenee perpetrated against TWP, the coup you and Dalimbar assisted in TSP, the coup Neo Kervoskia assisted in Lazarus, and the coups Neenee attempted against TRR?

If so, there's your reminder.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Tsk. You know as well as I do that the name Empire gets thrown around in accusation without any basis in fact. I am aware of ONE coup, TEP. You could call Osiris one, with the infamous men-in-tights assist, though it only lasted a day - so we'll call it two.

And, off for the day. Have fun dealing in more speculation, I'll read it tonight.

~B

Have you forgotten about the coup Dalimbar perpetrated against TNP, the coup you and Neenee perpetrated against TWP, the coup you and Dalimbar assisted in TSP, the coup Neo Kervoskia assisted in Lazarus, and the coups Neenee attempted against TRR?

If so, there's your reminder.

Wasn't it Biyah who actually outed Sedgistan as the perpetrator of the 2011 DevCoup?

[Biyah]

Wow.... And I thought Unibot was a new-wave history revisionist. Good God Cormac, you just passed him by a mile. And that was painful to say.

Alright then, lets break some of this down, in no particular order...

1: You're going into some history that's before Empire was founded - Years before. The Empire was founded in Dec 2008. It was specifically created as The East Pacific Empire, and all of us were under cover as a last hurrah in the game. We were under the impression that our game-style was going to break down soon and we wanted to do things we hadn't done before. (And lets be honest, it really has, but that's besides the point.) Keep that *year* firmly in mind when I say that TWP was mid 2004 and Dali's TNP was... 2005? I think.

2: As a clarification, you really don't know much about ancient history. The West Pacific Dominion had 98% of the government behind it. We folded back to the 2nd Concom constitution because it was obvious that Dali, Eli, Dilber and Berhapmore (only the later three of whom were actually in TWP) was going to launch a civil war with RLA support - not because we were wrong. It was TWP that convinced me (and others) that Civil Wars just need to happen to keep a region healthy. Keep in mind, dear boy, that I was hard-core Defender at that time. Holding a region against my own organization(s) wasn't a very tasteful idea.

3: Dali and I didn't do anything but talk to Sedge about TSP; we were in discussion to take over from him, but then he went and got power crazy. We ended up outing him and CG to the TRR Government instead, without having lifted one finger to help him in TSP. The logs of all contact are still on TRRs board, last I looked. We were kicked from the region for breaking TRR law regarding secrets et al, not because we had taken part in the coup.

4: Nee and I were both out for life when Dali was in TNP. I had just gotten engaged, and Nee married. I don't think NK had even joined Nationstates yet.

5: Laz was an NK special, the rest of us were out of game or not taking part. This is the only one you mentioned that *could* have been an Empire op. Congrats!


...Empire missions before Empire was even a thought. I like it. I like it a lot. That means I can blame you and whatever group I chose for things you did years before you joined said organization. Awesome!

This is all a matter of public record, btw, ancient history. If you're going to accuse The Empire of doing things, please pick things that we *could* have done? Please? Because, you know, you look like an under educated ass who's desperately trying to make us look ebil to new'ish players by tossing around any dramatic event you can think of that had one or more of us involved. It's almost a neat trick... almost. I would let you do it gladly, except you've spent enough time around the real power players of NS, that you should know better. Even if you only learned by osmosis, you should be able to do better than this. Kick up your game a notch man, this is embarrassing.

With that said, can I blame the Empire for the dissolution of the PRP? Maybe ADN and ACCEL while I'm at it? Oh, and on the destruction and reconsecration of the Meritocracy? How about the downfall of ALL and TWW? I know for a fact that I can name more ancient fallen organizations and regions/governments than you; I could rock the newbie players minds with alphabet soup before you can pull the mud out of your beard.

Cheers Bro-in-law.
~B

[Cormactopia Prime]

<blah blah blah>

That was a lot of words to confirm what I had already said: The Empire four -- Neenee, Biyah, Dalimbar, and Neo Kervoskia -- were individually or jointly responsible for perpetrating, assisting, or attempting the number of coups I stated. Who cares if you were called "Empire" for the earlier ones? The label doesn't matter; what matters is what the four of you have done both as individuals and as a group, and that some of it dates back to the NationStates stone age doesn't actually speak well of you, since you're still doing the exact same thing all this time later.

When most people, myself included, say "Empire," they just mean it as shorthand for the four of you, not the actual, complete organization behind the Empire of The East Pacific in 2008. I was well aware of the history behind those coups, but none of that changes the underlying point: None of the four of you can be trusted in Feeder and Sinker communities, and it's completely normal and sensible for TSP to regard you as enemies of the state. It's mind-boggling that any Feeder or Sinker allows any one of you to participate, particularly in any governing capacity.

[Jakker]

It's mind-boggling that any Feeder or Sinker allows any one of you to participate, particularly in any governing capacity.

I thought that too, but you and Tim seemed to think otherwise with Osiris.

[Cormactopia Prime]

It's mind-boggling that any Feeder or Sinker allows any one of you to participate, particularly in any governing capacity.

I thought that too, but you and Tim seemed to think otherwise with Osiris.

Yeah, like I said earlier, I regret that. The definite lesson of NationStates is not to believe a tiger changed its stripes.

[Mallorea and Riva]

I thought that too, but you and Tim seemed to think otherwise with Osiris.

Yeah, like I said earlier, I regret that. The definite lesson of NationStates is not to believe a tiger changed its stripes.

Just preserving this for posterity.

[Cormactopia Prime]

Yeah, like I said earlier, I regret that. The definite lesson of NationStates is not to believe a tiger changed its stripes.

Just preserving this for posterity.

I don't change. I'm predictably unpredictable.

[Tim-Opolis]

It's mind-boggling that any Feeder or Sinker allows any one of you to participate, particularly in any governing capacity.

I thought that too, but you and Tim seemed to think otherwise with Osiris.

We all make mistakes.

[Solorni]

History question, is calling them the Empire Four a play on the Chinese political faction "Gang of Four"?