People's Republic of The Communist Bloc

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

"You can continue calling yourselves Communist but to the rest of us you are imperialists dressed in red."

You know, if they happen to grow to be larger and more active, while you happen to fade away, it's not going to matter what you consider them. Even know - the world view frankly maters more as to what they're widely considered, and I've yet to see a logical, step-by-step, simple argument/explanation that tells me, as someone not intricately familiar with leftist politics, *why* they are not to be considered one - If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck, etc etc

[The Rainbow Collective]

Apparently not, because my understanding of the net points you've made is "Because they've attacked leftists regions they aren't one!" which is in my view a fundamentally flawed position - A raider region that attacks other raiders is still a raider region, even if they don't respect unity. An imperialist that conquers the lands of other imperialists is still imperialist. A defender group that refuses to work with other defenders or who defends regions from self-styled defenders who include a byline in the WFE to promote their own org is still a defender group. Why isn't a leftist that attacks other leftists not a leftist? Just because they are not part of your breed and brand of leftist doesn't make them inherently not leftist. From an outside point of view, they fly the red, support the glorious leader, keep up the historical conflict with Nazi's, and pass the propaganda, all of which damn sure makes them look like what we all consider leftist.

This is a flawed argument because I think you're making assumptions many people would disagree with. I would love to hear from other invaders if they consider an invader region that doesn't observe invader unity an invader region, and especially from defenders if they consider a defender region that tags a defender region. It matters what a region calls itself, yes, but it also matters whether the regions that comprise that sphere accept that region as part of the sphere. For example, nobody considers re-taggers to be defenders even though they call themselves that.

What you've described as making The Communist Bloc look leftist is window dressing. At its core the left is about the worldwide struggle of the working class against the capitalist ruling class, which includes struggle not only against capitalism in general but against its aggressive, reactionary expressions such as fascism and imperialism. In NationStates Gameplay especially, given that it lacks an economic component, the left opposes fascism first and foremost but also imperialism. The left only works with imperialists against fascists because the former is a lesser evil than the latter. The only so-called leftist region that will gleefully join an imperialist invasion against a non-fascist region - particularly an invasion of a leftist region - is The Communist Bloc.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

"or who defends regions from self-styled defenders who include a byline in the WFE to promote their own org"
Think you misread that

Anyways, I can;t summon other raiders here with a wish unfortunately, but from past experiences, they'd mostly agree.

"nobody considers re-taggers to be defenders even though they call themselves that."

True, but that's because we all have a clear idea of what a defender region is, and they don't fit the schema...whereas TCB, does, for leftists.


...now that last bit, that's a decent explanation of the point of view. I'd seriously like to see a through comeback to that by TCB. What about the argument that, by fostering closer relationships with other orgs /besides/ just loking to them for assistance when you need it, you're more likely to be able to work together to achieve greater goals in the future?

Also- As far as I've seen, besides the occasional tiny tag run or operation that always ends in failure (and who's endorsements seem to be in a constant state of general doubts), the fascists aren't that much of threat. In that scenario, What would you consider appropriate targets for a leftist region that wish to train it's military, boost regional moral with military victory, and build global reputation by exercising it's forces on the world stage?

[Misley]

True, but that's because we all have a clear idea of what a defender region is, and they don't fit the schema...whereas TCB, does, for leftists.

TCB may fit the general player's perception of "leftist," but the almost unanimous opinion of leftist players who organize themselves into "leftist" regions is that TCB is not "leftist" any more than Unibot is a raider. It's about as representative of the left as "The Interview" is representative of the DPRK.

...now that last bit, that's a decent explanation of the point of view. I'd seriously like to see a through comeback to that by TCB. What about the argument that, by fostering closer relationships with other orgs /besides/ just loking to them for assistance when you need it, you're more likely to be able to work together to achieve greater goals in the future?

That's a fair argument, but I don't get the impression that TCB is building relationships with UIAF, Balder, etc. as the means to an end -- rather, I get the impression that these relationships and this sense of prestige and influence is the end.

And if they are building relationships towards an end, it seems to me that they could build those relationships and still say "Hey, UIAF, we'd love to work with you but we're going to stick to our principles and not raid another leftist region." Instead, they're placing their allegiance with an imperialist army over solidarity with what should be their natural allies.

Also- As far as I've seen, besides the occasional tiny tag run or operation that always ends in failure (and who's endorsements seem to be in a constant state of general doubts), the fascists aren't that much of threat. In that scenario, What would you consider appropriate targets for a leftist region that wish to train it's military, boost regional moral with military victory, and build global reputation by exercising it's forces on the world stage?

Regions with the Fascist or Anti-Communist tags are fair targets, and there are plenty of those with executive delegate turned on.

That last part of your question -- "build global reputation" -- isn't something any of the leftist militaries have shown much interest in. We're more than happy to play our side of the R/D game outside of the spotlight.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

Problem with that is that, due to operational security measures, most orgs on the aggressive side of things don't reveal the target beyond a select few until minutes before the operation. Requests aren't "Hey will you come help us hit The Eternal Knights," they're "Are you available to assist with an operation at {update}?" In the case of updater assistance, backing out with one minute to go when the target is released the the assembled people (if you even have time to check out the region) could prove disastrous to the entire mission and in fact /damage/ relations. With piler support, if you've agreed to help supply pilers, they may again be counting on you for support, and you definitely won't know the the region until after it's hit - again, backing out could prove disastrous to the entire mission and /damage/ relations. On the other side of actions, secrecy isn't as much needed - you can say "hey everyone let's go try to liberate Ixnay!" and the raider response in event of a leak would be minimally stronger than if you;d waited until the last minute, at best. This is partly because any large group is usually relatively easy to see at update, and where raiders could strike anywhere, large masses of defenders have at most, three or so places they could be headed (and we then poke each other to make sure we're all alert ). Aggressive military actions are much more likely to include that security, because anything from a purposeful leak to a noobish mistake to a poor click when opening the target tab could result in a defender pile before the operation even begins. Therefore, it's a necessity to trust your allies, and stick to your word when things go down.

[The Rainbow Collective]

...now that last bit, that's a decent explanation of the point of view. I'd seriously like to see a through comeback to that by TCB. What about the argument that, by fostering closer relationships with other orgs /besides/ just loking to them for assistance when you need it, you're more likely to be able to work together to achieve greater goals in the future?

There are ways other than military cooperation to foster closer relationships with other regions. But even with military cooperation, if a leftist region for some reason wanted to cooperate more closely with imperialists, they could hit other targets that are valid for leftist regions such as capitalist regions. There's no reason to participate in invasions against leftist regions and I'm just about certain if The Communist Bloc had informed its imperialist and independent friends of a policy against invading leftist regions, they would have understood and still been willing to work with them on other things.

But honestly, cooperating on anti-fascist operations should be enough. With the UIAF for example, two of its three regions are at war with The Greater German Reich and anti-fascist operations also give the UIAF great opportunities to work with GCR allies and potential allies. It's as much in their interests as it is in ours to cooperate on anti-fascist action. So that should build sufficiently strong relationships on its own.

Also- As far as I've seen, besides the occasional tiny tag run or operation that always ends in failure (and who's endorsements seem to be in a constant state of general doubts), the fascists aren't that much of threat. In that scenario, What would you consider appropriate targets for a leftist region that wish to train it's military, boost regional moral with military victory, and build global reputation by exercising it's forces on the world stage?

There are a lot of ways. Defending and liberating against fascist invasions or invasions by capitalist regions and orgs like Libertatem and REATO, invading fascist and capitalist regions, and of course there is also the option of working against invaders and imperialists. The latter are far more militarily active than fascists, and working against them provided plenty of activity and prestige for the Red Liberty Alliance for years.

There are options for military activity for leftist regions. Antifa is often pretty active. There's no reason for a leftist region to engage in anti-leftist invasions and it's alarming to see TCB engaged in them with this flippant attitude.

[Misley]

Problem with that is that, due to operational security measures, most orgs on the aggressive side of things don't reveal the target beyond a select few until minutes before the operation. Requests aren't "Hey will you come help us hit The Eternal Knights," they're "Are you available to assist with an operation at {update}?" In the case of updater assistance, backing out with one minute to go when the target is released the the assembled people (if you even have time to check out the region) could prove disastrous to the entire mission and in fact /damage/ relations. With piler support, if you've agreed to help supply pilers, they may again be counting on you for support, and you definitely won't know the the region until after it's hit - again, backing out could prove disastrous to the entire mission and /damage/ relations. On the other side of actions, secrecy isn't as much needed - you can say "hey everyone let's go try to liberate Ixnay!" and the raider response in event of a leak would be minimally stronger than if you;d waited until the last minute, at best. This is partly because any large group is usually relatively easy to see at update, and where raiders could strike anywhere, large masses of defenders have at most, three or so places they could be headed (and we then poke each other to make sure we're all alert ). Aggressive military actions are much more likely to include that security, because anything from a purposeful leak to a noobish mistake to a poor click when opening the target tab could result in a defender pile before the operation even begins. Therefore, it's a necessity to trust your allies, and stick to your word when things go down.

It seems like it would be very straightforward and simple to say "Hey, we're not going to raid leftist regions. We'll be happy to help wherever else, just don't ask us to come along if you're hitting leftists." If UIAF truly respected their opinion, as I imagine they would, I would hope they would understand and have no hard feelings over such a request.

I'm aware of the importance of supplying updaters/pilers in operations - Antifa has been the #1 provider of pilers for all of the operations against fascists to my knowledge. All of that would be avoided by an up-front honesty about TCB's priorities. If they have no qualms raiding leftist regions, as Zenny has said, then it's a moot point, but that opens them up to criticism from the left.

[Zenya]

There are ways other than military cooperation to foster closer relationships with other regions. But even with military cooperation, if a leftist region for some reason wanted to cooperate more closely with imperialists, they could hit other targets that are valid for leftist regions such as capitalist regions. There's no reason to participate in invasions against leftist regions and I'm just about certain if The Communist Bloc had informed its imperialist and independent friends of a policy against invading leftist regions, they would have understood and still been willing to work with them on other things.

We do, we've aided multiple attacks against fascist regions. Us hitting 1 region that claim is leftist does not mean we plan on making it a habit. We hit CAPS back in October and we apologized for that, cut ties to Libertatem, cut our embassy with CAPS, etc. You guys told us to cut ties to Lib, we did, then you demanded we give you the password, which we didn't have but could have requested had we not pissed off Lib. Eastern Europe has no significance in the leftist community (how they are leftist is still a mystery, as I hadn't ever heard of them prior to ordering our troops in).

But honestly, cooperating on anti-fascist operations should be enough. With the UIAF for example, two of its three regions are at war with The Greater German Reich and anti-fascist operations also give the UIAF great opportunities to work with GCR allies and potential allies. It's as much in their interests as it is in ours to cooperate on anti-fascist action. So that should build sufficiently strong relationships on its own.

I think TI's lack of serious relations outside of the Leftist sphere say clearly that it doesn't work on the level that TCB wants it to. We have a forum, which I'm not sure if you understand the idea since TI lacks one, but we have embassies, exchange ambassadors, sign treaties, etc. Things that literally no leftist region has (unless we are counting GCR's in which I'm guess Laz does) and TCB is already working out with other regions, holding interregional festivals, etc. The rest of the leftist community can't offer us those things because it lacks real development and organization, hence we do have to work with other and accomplish anti-fascist goals along with the goals of those whom we want serious alliances with.

There are a lot of ways. Defending and liberating against fascist invasions or invasions by capitalist regions and orgs like Libertatem and REATO, invading fascist and capitalist regions, and of course there is also the option of working against invaders and imperialists. The latter are far more militarily active than fascists, and working against them provided plenty of activity and prestige for the Red Liberty Alliance for years.

Right, but we are not wanting to get into your silly little war with Libertatem because it really just is so small scale and insignificant that nobody knows or cares outside of the leftist bubble. I'm not saying its an issue, but you guys have really blown Libertatem and the Nazi's up to be more than they are. Theyre very small and annoying spheres consisting of just a few small regions and not much of a threat as long as you have a founder. I routinely see leftist flip their shit over tag raids that last 2 hours because they have a founder and suddenly they lock down their region for 3 weeks and get paranoid... its boring and stupid frankly :/

There are options for military activity for leftist regions. Antifa is often pretty active. There's no reason for a leftist region to engage in anti-leftist invasions and it's alarming to see TCB engaged in them with this flippant attitude.

Its not anti-leftist, its anti-FRA, as the UIAF notice stated. If the UIAF is raiding leftist regions, but you guys are still working with them, then whats the problem here? Why aren't you blowing up their thread? Would you still work with them if they raided The Internationale? Why aren't you standing in solidarity with Eastern Europe during their time of need? Why will you continue to back the UIAF even as they destroy your 'comrades'?

Its simple. You don't care. You're just using this as a chance to bash TCB, thats all. You give 0 fucks about Eastern Europe.

[Misley]

Its not anti-leftist, its anti-FRA, as the UIAF notice stated. If the UIAF is raiding leftist regions, but you guys are still working with them, then whats the problem here? Why aren't you blowing up their thread?

I really don't like cluttering up the UIAF's thread with this stuff though :/ I'd prefer the conversation move to TCB. I'll cease posting in this topic now.

We should move this conversation to the TCB thread. No, wait! We should blow up the UIAF thread.

Where would you have us move the conversation to, O Dear Leader, Reader of the Stars and Master of the Left? Please speak plainly, for your doublespeak is too much for us lowly leftists.

[Zenya]

Its not anti-leftist, its anti-FRA, as the UIAF notice stated. If the UIAF is raiding leftist regions, but you guys are still working with them, then whats the problem here? Why aren't you blowing up their thread?

I really don't like cluttering up the UIAF's thread with this stuff though :/ I'd prefer the conversation move to TCB. I'll cease posting in this topic now.

We should move this conversation to the TCB thread. No, wait! We should blow up the UIAF thread.

Where would you have us move the conversation to, O Dear Leader, Reader of the Stars and Master of the Left? Please speak plainly, for your doublespeak is too much for us lowly leftists.

I'm asking, UIAF led the raid to destroy the community of your comrades, why are you only outraged at us? You're the one who works with them. You don't care about the people in Eastern Europe, you only care about another talking point against us.

If you were consistent, you would tell the UIAF publicly to cease and stand against them in solidarity with Eastern Europe against the actions of the UIAF. Me? I don't give a damn about them, frankly. I'm consistent in my support for this operation.

[Chester Pearson]

If you were consistent, you would tell the UIAF publicly to cease and stand against them in solidarity with Eastern Europe against the actions of the UIAF.

Your missing the point. Eastern Europe is going to fall, so why would The Fleet ally with them? They tend to back the winning side, much like most mercs in the game....

[The Rainbow Collective]

Eastern Europe has no significance in the leftist community (how they are leftist is still a mystery, as I hadn't ever heard of them prior to ordering our troops in).

Eastern Europe had clear leftist tags and embassies with other leftist regions. Every leftist region has significance in the leftist community, it's called solidarity. That you don't even understand these basic concepts of the left and how profoundly wrong you are should tell any leftist how much of a sham The Communist Bloc is.

I think TI's lack of serious relations outside of the Leftist sphere say clearly that it doesn't work on the level that TCB wants it to. We have a forum, which I'm not sure if you understand the idea since TI lacks one, but we have embassies, exchange ambassadors, sign treaties, etc. Things that literally no leftist region has (unless we are counting GCR's in which I'm guess Laz does) and TCB is already working out with other regions, holding interregional festivals, etc. The rest of the leftist community can't offer us those things because it lacks real development and organization, hence we do have to work with other and accomplish anti-fascist goals along with the goals of those whom we want serious alliances with.

We don't need or want an off-site forum, and yes, I do understand the concept and how "mainstream" gameplay works. You're wrong that The Internationale doesn't have relations outside the leftist sphere - our military, The Red Fleet, works with "mainstream" gameplay on anti-fascist action pretty regularly. But I'm not even saying you shouldn't work more with those outside the leftist sphere who have off-site forums. I'm saying you don't need to invade leftist regions in order to do it, that's something you choose to do.

Right, but we are not wanting to get into your silly little war with Libertatem because it really just is so small scale and insignificant that nobody knows or cares outside of the leftist bubble. I'm not saying its an issue, but you guys have really blown Libertatem and the Nazi's up to be more than they are. Theyre very small and annoying spheres consisting of just a few small regions and not much of a threat as long as you have a founder. I routinely see leftist flip their shit over tag raids that last 2 hours because they have a founder and suddenly they lock down their region for 3 weeks and get paranoid... its boring and stupid frankly :/

So you would rather be an invader/imperialist region dressed in red? Because that's what you are. You're invading regions for no reason, certainly nothing related to socialism.

If you don't care about leftist issues and goals, why are you running a leftist region? Because it isn't leftist at all, that's why. It's a bunch of imperialists dressed in red.

Its not anti-leftist, its anti-FRA, as the UIAF notice stated. If the UIAF is raiding leftist regions, but you guys are still working with them, then whats the problem here? Why aren't you blowing up their thread? Would you still work with them if they raided The Internationale? Why aren't you standing in solidarity with Eastern Europe during their time of need? Why will you continue to back the UIAF even as they destroy your 'comrades'?

Its simple. You don't care. You're just using this as a chance to bash TCB, thats all. You give 0 fucks about Eastern Europe.

Eastern Europe isn't an FRA region. Its ties to the FRA are identical to its ties to the left, which you dismiss as insignificant and irrelevant. If that's the best the UIAF can do in its war against the FRA, that war is every bit as petty as you claim our struggle against Libertatem is.

We work with UIAF on anti-fascist action for the same reason defenders sometimes work with them: It's the only way to get it done. I think most of us can agree that it's worth working together to liberate regions from fascist groups or to shut down regions like Nazi Europe. I can't speak for The Internationale or The Red Fleet, but I expect TRF and other leftist militaries will be participating in any efforts to liberate Eastern Europe despite our occasional cooperation with the UIAF on anti-fascist action. Your "Communist" pilers are helping to prevent that. The problem here, which you continue to try to evade, is your needless participation in invasion of leftist regions.

[TCB Central News Agency]

This address was posted publicly in the Republic of The Communist Bloc on January 18th, 2014.

Office of the President
Dear Leader Zenny Ariel Winter
January 18th, 2015

My Dear Comrades,

We have done so, so much in the last 4 months together. Under the banner of Zennyism, we have gone from a small and humble region of 120 to a strong and proud region of nearly 600. Our transformation still amazes me, and we have all worked incredibly hard to achieve this success both in terms of population and our community, stronger than ever in friendship & cooperation.

With success also comes the need to adapt. The solutions of yesterday could easily become the beliefs that we so stubbornly hold on to that hold us back. As we adapt to meet changing circumstances, so must the way in which we run our region and the ideas we hold. Keeping an open mind and altering thoughts and feelings to fit the reality of the situation is something that I have always tried my best to do in this office, and it is in that spirit that over the last 2 weeks me and my son MSW have been working on an update & expansion to Zennyism, going from a 500 word document to a 1,200 word document. I encourage you to give it a read here: http://www.nationstates.net/nation=zenya/detail=factbook/id=303231

With this serious expansion comes the responsibility of not only implementing it further into policy, but enforcing it and setting the precedent for future generations to adopt the ideals and principles of Zennyism. After much consideration and speaking to my family and friends, I have decided that I shall seek a 2nd term as your President. We have so much work to do, and I hope that I will be given the approval of the people to continue representing them in this office.

Long Live The Republic!


Signed,
The Dear Leader, President Zenny

[The Rainbow Collective]

Yawn. There's nothing new or innovative there. Nothing even particularly socialist. Those ideas and principles could apply to any so-called "independent" region.

So, congratulations on mediocrity, I guess?

[Sedgistan]

It's a bunch of imperialists dressed in red.

No that's us:

[Sedgistan]

It's a bunch of imperialists dressed in red.

No that's us:

Seems more maroon than red.

[Zenya]

Ohhhh me likey TWP's poster :33333

[Hyanygo]

TCB is what it is, and Cormac is trying the tiresome.

[Comrade Anders Blakewood]

Yawn. There's nothing new or innovative there. Nothing even particularly socialist. Those ideas and principles could apply to any so-called "independent" region.

So, congratulations on mediocrity, I guess?

Yes, we get it already, you don't like us. You wanna ooze back over when we've got something posted you can actually criticize?

Come on, at least make an annotated form of the Zennyism manifesto, put some effort into your discontent.

[Solorni]

By my calculations that I recently did for a speech, TCB is the 3rd largest non-puppet UCR in the game behind 10KI and Europeia. That is quite the impressive achievement under Zenny and her philosophy

[Zenya]

By my calculations that I recently did for a speech, TCB is the 3rd largest non-puppet UCR in the game behind 10KI and Europeia.

I'm usually pretty good at keeping record of our stats, but even I didn't know that That is awesome.
I remember kinda getting loled at by Kraken back in July and he told me to get TCB's population up to Europeia and I told him "kk" Seems it certainly could become a reality someday soon.

[Solorni]

By my calculations that I recently did for a speech, TCB is the 3rd largest non-puppet UCR in the game behind 10KI and Europeia.

I'm usually pretty good at keeping record of our stats, but even I didn't know that That is awesome.
I remember kinda getting loled at by Kraken back in July and he told me to get TCB's population up to Europeia and I told him "kk" Seems it certainly could become a reality someday soon.

You've done really well, now I am reading the Zennyism document

[Zenya]

I'm usually pretty good at keeping record of our stats, but even I didn't know that That is awesome.
I remember kinda getting loled at by Kraken back in July and he told me to get TCB's population up to Europeia and I told him "kk" Seems it certainly could become a reality someday soon.

You've done really well, now I am reading the Zennyism document

You flatter me

[TCB Central News Agency]

The Assembly Council of the People's Democratic Assembly passed our treaty with the Realm of Balder unanimously on January 25th, 5 to 0. The Riksdag of Balder passed this treaty unanimously on January 29th, 6 to 0.



The Treaty of Kazan


WHEREAS, the Region of Balder (“Balder”) and The Communist Bloc (“TCB”) have engaged in discussions about the natural alliance between the two regions, and how to deepen it; and

NOTING, Balder and TCB wish to develop closer ties with one another through continued discussions, as well as the treaty undertakings set forth herein;

NOW, THEREFORE, Balder and TCB agree as follows:

1. Military Undertakings

(a) Neither Balder nor TCB will engage in military hostilities against the other. Participation by Balder and TCB on opposite sides of a military engagement that does not constitute an attack on either region shall not be considered "military hostilities against the other" for this purpose.

(b) To the extent practicable, Balder and TCB shall provide the other defensive military assistance in case of an attack.

(c.) Balder and TCB shall aid each other in Delegacy transferrals when requested.

(d) Balder and TCB will collaborate militarily for the combined benefit of both regions when practical.

2. Intelligence Undertakings

(a) Neither Balder nor TCB will set spies on the other. For this purpose, a “spy” is a person acting under false pretenses in one region, without that region’s knowledge, and at the direction of the other region’s legitimate government.

(b) Balder and TCB each shall provide information to the other if such information is pertinent to the other region's security or well-being, or otherwise upon the other’s reasonable request, unless the party in possession of such information reasonably believes that providing that information might violate applicable laws or contravene the terms of service for NationStates or the region’s forum provider.

(c.) Balder and TCB will each make it a violation of their internal laws to spy on the other, if a similar or related law to the same effect does not already exist. To the extent permitted by each region’s laws, this Section 2(c.) shall be deemed self-executing.

3. Diplomatic Undertakings

(a) Balder and TCB shall establish and maintain in-game embassies (i.e., on the NationStates site) with one another.

(b) Balder and TCB shall maintain off-site embassies (i.e., on their regional forums), consistent with facilities provided to other allies.

4. General Provisions

(a) This treaty shall take effect when it has been ratified by the duly authorized institution of both Balder and TCB.

(b) Upon ratification, this treaty shall be the sole treaty between Balder and TCB, superseding any prior written documents describing a relationship between the regions.

(c.) As soon as practicable following ratification, Balder and TCB will collaborate to stage a cultural festival to celebrate this treaty.

[Consular]

Congratulations on your treaty!