The Black Riders - The Elite Cavalry of NationStates

[Ambroscus Koth]

You're right, it would be nice if my region was more active militarily. Unfortunately people like myself are swamped with IRL work and can't get anything going. But that's just a personal attack on my region because you can't properly defend yourself against my points.

[Baghdad Bob]

Minor Update, April 19 2015


Huzzah! The few black riders that were on at today's update decided to go on a fast paced raid, leaving 55 regions in destruction, and 4 delegates executed!


The riders:


Hired Contractor
Vandoosa
In Gentem Et De Libris Scientiam
Shogun


Regions lying in ruins: 55


Aliens Of IC 1101
Alliance of Orthodox Nations
Battleon
Brony Connections
Bun
Commonwealth of Free Communities
Confederacy Of United Nonsoviet States
Confederation of freeholds
Ebola
ExPaNd DoNg
FANTASIA
Freedominia
Genosis
Horskolorna
Iceflorian Mountain
Illyrae
International Workers Union
Islamofascism
Kage
Kalie
KiNgS AnD LoRdS
Kyujis Den
Maymarxa
NewAsian Union
Nuku Hiva
pussy willows
Regionless Nomads
Saloria
Smeg Lords
The American Alliance
The Black Wolf
the confederation of the Rhine
The Conservative Wing
The Conservatives
The Klondike Alliance
The Liberal Island
The new age for enlightened fellows
THE NIGHT SIDE
The Outskirts of the Upskirts
The Red Confederation
The State of The True Sith
The Ultimatum
The Union of Free People
The Union of Prosperous Nations
The Union of Sovereign States
The United Oasis Alliance
Tyrniaraheal
United in Christ
United Manatee Countries Of Antarctica
Verkhny Oseredok Island
VV4 Active F Beta
VV5 Active F Beta
Wheatley Lavatories Region
World Communist States
Your Ass


Delegates executed: 4


Alliance of Orthodox Nations 1 endorsements 0 days
Genosis 1 endorsements 2 days
NewAsian Union 1 endorsements 4 days
The Union of Sovereign States 1 endorsements 9 days

[Vandoosa]

There is one of those regions (the last one on that list) that has made this the best raid ever!

[Shogun]

@Koth: I'll try 'defend' myself against your points, even there are no need for such, from game-mechanical realities I'll be right anyway as my defense will be based on the facts nobody can deny (you know them already). However, this is not the thread (by instructions of Marshal Gest), and forgive me, I had no time for answering as I had to perform online reserve duties.

I count only 5 hits from that last run to my personal hit counts. It's still more then about 97% of raiders can show for this update. Thank you.

[Venico]

I count only 5 hits from that last run to my personal hit counts. It's still more then about 97% of raiders can show for this update. Thank you.

A raider's worth is not measured in their delegacy count, Cora. When you understand that then maybe people will be more accepting of you. Take for example, Mall. While he hasn't tag raided in...well since TBH tag raided which was before TBR began posting numbers above 25. Yet he is still considered a great raider. Why? Because he was a positive influence in our community, he helped purge TSP one of the largest targets a raider can go for, and because he was instrumental in bringing people together for updates.

MacLeod (MikesWill) is also a great raider. But how can that be?! He's only ever taken one delegacy in his life and he hasn't even purged it! Woe is me! He's a great raider because he helped out DEN when he could, he always put forth an effort despite his WA being tied down and guess what? He was a positive influence on RMBs when he'd stop by for a raid. He'd encourage us from the sideline and make every raid he joined special. He never was a delegate of a raid or lent his endorsement for a raid, yet he will be remembered amongst the raider community as one of the best for years to come.

These examples go completely against your idea of what a raider is. It goes against the idea that a raider is defined by the mechanics of the game and not their place in a bunch of fun. That's what a raid is supposed to be Cora. That's what it all started out as. A bunch of jackasses going into a region and having fun by conquering it. They didn't have fun by counting who has the biggest penis delegacy count. They didn't have fun by putting their WFE on the most regions. They had fun from the horror of the natives and the people around them. Those are the people I want raiding. Those are the people I consider to be the greatest. And the cool thing about raiders kiddo? I'm arguing with you right now but yet I still consider you a brother. Still a part of the family, even if you are from one of the worse branches. Even if I find you to be a negative influence and steering raiders away from fun and towards work. You're still a brother in arms that I won't go against on the field.

I hope you figure some of this stuff out dude. I really do.

[Drop Your Pants]

I saw the first 3 split second jumps and went to do something else

[Vandoosa]

I thought the main part of raiding is to gain infamy.. to be the villain of Nationstates..

[Venico]

I thought the main part of raiding is to gain infamy.. to be the villain of Nationstates..

If that's what is fun for you, sure! Some others enjoy not caring about what others think and just doing what they want. And others raid and do their best to put a positive spin on it and make it politically viable. All of these people are raiders, all of these people are having fun in their own way.

[RiderSyl]

Holy shit, I am not used to this much drama in the TBR thread.

I'm a raider because it's the best way to play NationStates, and many of my fellow raiders are awesome people. Everything else is of little meaning to me.
At the same time, I recognize others' approach to the game. However, I don't necessarily approve of those approaches, and I will damn well defend the way I choose to play the game if someone of a different approach challenges mine.

I think that's what's happening here for you guys. We have Coraxion's dedication to pure raiding, vs. "impure" raiding.

I know y'all have had your approach to the game challenged and you want to throw it down, but let's all stop this shit. This thread should not contain a huge debate about which way of raiding is the best raiding, because defenders love to see us argue.

[Drop Your Pants]

Raider group hug time!!!

[Granpasmurf]

Raider group hug time!!!

*hugs*

[Gradea]

Raider group hug time!!!

Can I have a hug as well?

[Ambroscus Koth]

Raider group hug time!!!

Can I have a hug as well?

No!

[Shogun]

Why I'm nearly always taken wrongly. I can easily agree with Venico about that "people go there and keep fun part", as well as greatness of those legendary raiders, generally every aspect you bring to the topic. However, it seems normal custom to reject people/ideas who/which concentrate for making/trying to make organisations more capable to "go there and keep some fun", and searching new ways to increase overall efficiency of raiding, as it is.

For me fun comes from things like: First of all, there must be raid, it's damn hard find fun if there are no raid at all (not-including dull static piling in a random region). For me fun comes from seeing some raider coming in, learning, and finally becoming experienced and skilled one. For me mobility, flexibility and creativity of the organisation is natural aim. For me hard work for the collective organisational aims cause satisfaction and feelings of joy, that simple things are done in time and as a team effort, what any kind raiding is basicly. I enjoy, if we can change things in practice and make better raider organisations, which also by definition concentrate their efforts for raiding, not only speaking about it. Mobility of R/D is my holy cow, as it is plain clear that raiders could achieve much more higher overall results and impact to the game if they would co-ordinate, collaborate and plan actions better then it's used to be. Influence system has in practice ruined the R/D in it's former model causing stagnation we must try compensate with increasement in mobility of raider forces. Game mechanical fact is anyway that there exist clear way for use of "force multiplier" - legal possibility to switch WA-nation as much as we want during updates. We people online cannot just "go there and keep some fun" in ten regions all the time instead only one, that's beyond my scope?

I get angry and frustrated when there often happen situation just before and during updates, we have lot of people online, who eagerly speak bullshit and non-sense, pulling ranks, chatting their real lifes, etc. normal in militarily organised social environment, but then when we should start raid suddenly numbers are diminished to few most enthusiastic ones, and as it's seemingly a norm not because of some real reasons, but because "I've not reapplied my puppets", "I don't want take points", "tagging is boring" etc. bad excuses for Not to raid even being, online, free, in principle ready to participate to team. They ignore systematically the fact that numerically powerful and constantly active raider team could achieve much more higher relative results and impact, could keep fun in multiple regions same time and continuously, work load of menial and tedious tasks would be easy to share (allowing also increased creativity due more time to put for individual, tagging for example) etc. etc. Synergic benefits and use of available force multipliers in R/D is neglected and forgotten to the woods of passivity, and traditional prejudice what "good raiding" is, and that is biggest cause of killing fun in these recent game-mechanical circumstances, which always determine ultimately what raiding can and cannot be in the multiverse.

Speaking about unity and acting (=raiding) on the fields by the idea of unity are 2 different things. Theory and practice. If theory and practice contradict, the practice is what suffer, which means there are reasons re-visit the theory.

People doesn't need take things personally, as it seems they tend to take when someone points out their excuses. In my eyes they do not get respect by doing nothing and claiming they are raiders, no matter whom they are or what they are done in the past.

Then, finally, there are 20-21 hours per day for roleplaying, 3-4 hours for raiding. RPs can be paused for updates, but updates cannot be paused for roleplays if it's intention to make any kind R/D activities out there. No raid, no fun.

[We Are Not the NSA]

Shogun, am I one of the raiders that you mentioned? I haven't been able to raid in a while.

[Venico]

and as it's seemingly a norm not because of some real reasons, but because "I've not reapplied my puppets", "I don't want take points", "tagging is boring" etc. bad excuses for Not to raid even being, online, free, in principle ready to participate to team.

If someone genuinely doesn't enjoy tagging why is forcing them to fun for you? I understand it's for the greater good but I will never force someone to play this game in an aspect that they don't want to. You call it a bad excuse because...they don't enjoy it? That's a perfectly fine reason not to tag.

Either way Cora, I hope you have a nice day as I'm snuggling into bed soon. Enjoy your way and I'll enjoy mine as long as you don't throw shots in my direction of fun I won't throw shots in yours. Have a good day dude and I hope you have a fruitful update.

[Drop Your Pants]

and as it's seemingly a norm not because of some real reasons, but because "I've not reapplied my puppets", "I don't want take points", "tagging is boring" etc. bad excuses for Not to raid even being, online, free, in principle ready to participate to team.

Nearly word for word for what defenders have been hearing for the last few months If people don't want to move then go do something else for the day. No point getting annoyed at them.

[Shogun]

Heh. Dear DYP. I can imagine level of frustrations.

Point here is pretty much that if raiderdom wants develop it's activities further, it have to be capable perform with numerically bigger forces. "Tag raiding" and "infinite long piling occupations" are bad compromizes, which rise from reality of game mechanics. Not enough forces for real mobile warfare (keeping multiple occupation running with updater forces), and paralysing conditions for occupations. It's amazing that I can say to you things simply knowing you really understand what I try to say, but I'm not sure that all raiders realize that. Beyond pure record breaking runs, there are not much point in so called "tag raiding", but people who accuse others for concentrating for these activities, are quilty to themselves too as their passivity and misconceptions is one reason which forces raiders to concentrate limited goals, with available limited forces.

Cora's Math
Simple Example.

- One Occupation. Raider Delegate and 15 pilers endorsing that Delegate one update would be just what it is WAD+15e. 50 days = 100 updates, would be a total 150 endorsements to delegate (with unoptimal influence growth),

- 16 updaters, 10 occupations. For one update 10 WADs+150 endorsements(10xWAD+15e), for 100 consecutive updates 10 WADs (a total of 1000 Delegate elections in those 10 regions) and total 1500 endorsements (with possibly changing switcher puppets for more optimal relative influence growth of delegate)

In this example all those occupations could be also minimally manned with static WADs and minimum 1e, so people whom cannot be online for updates use their endorsements usefully, piling where needed, but always taking part to updates when possible for all of those occupations. 10 occupations is pretty much minimum for interesting update, btw. Some 30 occupations and invasions could be kept continuously running with decently skilled, motivated and numerically big updater team. Optimum would be that there wouldn't anymore needs to "tag" (= occupation/Invasion that never started, after initial seizing of delegate position) any regions as whole updates would go more usefully piling numerous occupations with updater switcher forces. Just there is paradox of "tag raiding", it doesn't exist categorically, as a separate raiding style (unless particularly trying make hit records or hit regions where tags probably remain long for publicity purposes, etc.), but it can be seen as an unoptimal way of raiding due lack of raider activity, attitude problems and misconceptions, and numerically insufficient updater forces to do anything with higher impact. 'Tag raiding' is only current level of evolution of raiding for more expanded and effective use of forces, nothing that is forever carved to the stone of "Laws of Raiding". In any case anyway, in every invasion is started by updaters, and updaters are the main subject of action, because nobody can ever elect delegate outside update.

And even in scenarios there really would exist 10-20... 30 occupations/invasions simultanously there would still have time for also simple tags. I can't personally understand how difficult it can be make some simple math related to these things, and come to rational conclusions. Either I cannot understand where is the basic difficulty of inter-organisational co-operation in these schemes, everyone would have their own loved "good raids", occupations and invasions, but they all would keep together those operations going on. Now normal standard type of occupation is just pile and store all available forces to some insignificant puppet dump, forget them there and let spiders weave webs over folks, typically each raider club by their own maybe after initial short period of co-operation when launching the occupation, meanwhile only little minority of raiders really try to develop mobile warfare tactics, improve accuracy, skills etc. during updates. Often that team is small minority of people free (not occupation delegate or Raider WA-nation in sleeper/undercover mission) and available online.

I know you can understand, DYP. All prominent raiders cannot, or they pretend they don't see the point.

I'm not concerned about defenders now, but it's clear that also they would need numerically big forces online for updates to achieve anything.

[Baghdad Bob]

Minor Update, April 20 2015


While originally intended as training for new recruit, Sovietia, these riders to achieve more than training and went on to destroy 26 regions.


The riders:


Hired Contractor
Sovietia
Shogun


Regions destroyed: 26


Alliance of Hobbits
Allied Defense Region
Alosteq Diin Nastja
Bulla Island
Chixsonian Empire
Corner Lands
DALEK EMPIRE
Discover Islam
Gloriana
Guardians Den
Humanity
Kamaria
legions of work
Liberal League
Liberated Pacific
Meadowlands
Noowhere
Piafian Rhine
Pot
School Friends
Star Road
The Commonwealth of Capitalism
The Corvus Empire
The Goat Islands
The Scientific Union
The Union of Imperialists

[The South Polish Union]

TBR, y u tag pot on 4/20? :'(

[Shogun]

TBR, y u tag pot on 4/20? :'(

Yep. It is perfect puppet dump for tag. No founder, not malicious natives. Now it's safely attached to the TBR's tagfields. On those vast tagfields have room also for Pot, and other weeds, so don't be sad.

[Gradea]

Some of these newbie Founders really need to learn how to protect their regions. Seriously, just make your damn Delegate non-executive and you''l be raid proof. The Black Riders wouldn't hit so many regions if you all just took this simple step.

[Drop Your Pants]

Some of these newbie Founders really need to learn how to protect their regions. Seriously, just make your damn Delegate non-executive and you''l be raid proof. The Black Riders wouldn't hit so many regions if you all just took this simple step.

Didn't you leave your controls on for a while?

[Baghdad Bob]

Black riders Cora and Bella riding on the Tagfields

Minor Update, April 21st

Huzzah! Cora and Bella started late, and slow, and then they crushed the regions listed below.

Hits: 33

Calm Waters
Caucus of Nations
centeria
City States of Shadexia
Crayola
CyberCaliphate
Love Sex Drugs
Moon Rune Ruins
Muscat
Neinre
Noowhere
Our Lord Shreks Holy Lands
Pain and Power
Persephone
Sacred Realm of Darkness
SpaceBattles
SPSR
The Blech Protectorate
The Committee of Nations
The Democratic Alliance
The Dogetatorship of Foothills
The Edge of the Cosmos
The Hideout
The Holy Lands of the Lord
The Imperial Syndicate
The nations of empirlism
The new age for enlightened fellows
The Safe Haven of Fascism
The Seventh Void
TheRepublicChernogorsk
Union of German Nations
Utadarian Empire
Vojvodina

[Gradea]

Some of these newbie Founders really need to learn how to protect their regions. Seriously, just make your damn Delegate non-executive and you''l be raid proof. The Black Riders wouldn't hit so many regions if you all just took this simple step.

Didn't you leave your controls on for a while?

Many a time.