The OFO: good or bad for Osiris

[Venico]

Osiris has been raiding since the Medjai Guard. We just simply carried on the tradition. =P

[Zeorus]

Wait....Osiris has been raiding? How could I accept a cabinet position from such monsters?

[Zaolat]

Osiris has been raiding since the Medjai Guard. We just simply carried on the tradition. =P

In fact, part of my platform for Pharoah-ship again was to continue raids despite being defender at the time. I loved the theme and Osiris making a good show out there.

[Wintermoot]

I'd say these are all fair points, Wintermoot. I'll address a few things but overall, good post. Ok so personally, the reason I left is because I needed to build a region that was mine and had my ideals at heart. I can't force that on Osiris and I also am not willing to hold hollow citizenship in a region. To me it's just an insult to the place.

Thank you...it's nice that after four months someone that was involved in the OFO finally acknowledges that I have points. It's a far cry from when Cormac claimed I was making a fool of myself and my region, lol.

The low endorsement count was actually an issue with Asta's delegacy as well. Her endo count dropped to ~80 or so at its lowest and that is why she requested foreign support because she was drifting dangerously close to her Security Council members. A temporary limit was set lower (I believe it was 70) for the SC. This made Biyah call Asta on a potential coup which led to the mediated talks which I hosted (logs are on the old forum). *edit* I'll also claim some responsibility for the reason it hasn't rebounded. When you shut the gates to your region for awhile it definitely scared some people who might have endorsed but weren't knowledgeable of the conflict, away. I think Raven's fairly active regional telegrams/talks with the delegate will encourage more people to support him via the WA.

I'm not really assigning blame for the low endorsement rate, but I acknowledge it's been a problem for Osiris since the Douria coup, as evidenced by the incident you bring up. In order to be truly independent beyond a reasonable doubt, Osiris will need to rely on native support instead of foreign interventions, such as the Spiritus Horus Expedition and the several instances where the UIAF has had deploy to the region. As the principle architect of the Horus Expedition back when I was President of Spiritus, I think we can all agree in hindsight that the operation was a mistake, and that a foreign assistance force, no matter how dedicated, is no replacement for native endorsements.

I'm probably just stating the obvious here, but that's the main reason I listed it as a con.

Campinia's puppets were banjected because they held considerable influence in the region and he was (if I recall correctly) a part of a region that declared it would lend military support to overthrow the OFO. I won't make apologies for actions regarding influence in a time of war. Some of them were iffy but I'd rather err on the side of caution and prudence. I don't know the full story about Mahaj but I recall something of a fight in #osi and he was banjected after that. The OFO has no laws regarding the rights of non-citizens. Which brings me to my next point, defenders frankly just haven't been applying for citizenship in Osiris. I wish more would and I wish that Cam had become an integrated part of the community. The charges were silly but so was his involvement in the region (doesn't justify anything). To call him a part of Osiris is a stretch. I did my best to over-welcome him because I didn't want accusations of anti-defender being thrown our way (I guess I failed in that regard). But if you look at the citizenship logs, maybe 4 defenders have applied? Also Raven is taking a defender wife so I guess that's a thing? Osiris isn't very diverse in that part and the demographic has changed. If that's good or bad is up to you.

Perhaps then the solution is as simple as more transparency and consistency...an explanation of why prominent defenders were banjected. From the outside looking in, it simply looked like Mahaj had been randomly banjected around the same time the treason charges against Cameron Romefeller were dropped. I'm guessing that the region that declared support to overthrow the OFO is Spiritus...in that case, why was Horse approved as a Citizen? Why was Nox not allowed to join as a security risk (at least that was what I was told by Cormac in one of our many debates on the OFO on this forum), and then allowed to? What is the OFO's current position on Spiritans applying for Citizenship at this time, even? Now that a number of months have passed since the emergence of the OFO, perhaps it's time to look back at past decisions and check to see if they're still necessary or relevant.

And I know perfectly well that that any of those actions are technically legal. I'm pointing them out because I've been told by a number of OFO officials/members that the OFO welcomes defenders and wants them to be a part of this new Osiris, but it seems unable or unwilling to assist in the process...apparently now blaming defenders themselves for their lack of participation in the OFO. I'm just pointing out some small areas where improvements can be made if that is a direction the OFO really wants to go in the future. I'm just posting as an outside observer, but blaming defenders for defenders not being around comes off as circular logic. Osiris used to have a defender community of sorts along with others...what happened to it between July and now? I have a hard time believing it's just because of a military alignment change.

Some dialogue to identify why defenders feel the way they do about the OFO may be helpful as well. It seems that that has happened to some extent in this topic already...hopefully it's encouraged in the future.

Empire is used on a lot of things (I may be guilty of that). Anytime someone oversteps their bounds it's "You empire look alike!" I try to only say what I personally saw and what are documented facts. So basically Asta's regime and 2012 coup. To say Empire wasn't a large problem in Osiris is a lie. To say it was the only problem is too. I could go on a rant here but I won't. The OFO was founded with a civil war against the Empire. It's not too surprising that they are being blamed for everything.

In that context, that indeed isn't surprising...but I would think constantly bringing up The Empire and turning them into boogeymen isn't to the benefit of a region I would imagine is trying to move past and beyond those events. I specifically hope this is one of the things I hope the OFO will grow out of in time, as so far the only purpose it seems to have served is to provide a ready-made insult in disputes and to allow a number of individuals to whitewash their own past actions in Osiris by blaming The Empire for them. I'll refer you to Cormac's post above about how Biyah apparently put a gun to Treize Dreizehn's head and forced him to hand over his delegate nation to Gatesville as an example of this.

The Pharaoh in my eyes is a bit weaker but also keeps checks in place such as having to confirm SC members and vice delegates. The power structure also allows a Pharaoh to remain until the community challenges his reign. I'm honestly not the best at analyzing the power structure of the consty, I've looked at it so much I just have tunnel vision so an outside observer may have a fresher take.

Again, I'm not saying there will be a problem, just that it's a potential concern considering Osiris' past and the claims that were made against The Empire. It may be that nothing ever happens along those lines, or that it does...only time will tell as the region begins to evolve and come into its own, at least to me, which is why I'm taking a wait and see approach. As far as I know, the OFO hasn't had a contentious, divisive issue since its founding (apart from the issue of its founding, of course)...when such an issue comes up, how it is handled by both the government and the administration will be most telling, one way or another.

For what it's worth, I hope history won't repeat itself when it does happen.

Finally I want to end how I began, with me. =P I will eventually return to Osiris, she is the reason why I still enjoy this game. The friends I have there are still some of the closest people I have in NS. Venico (the nation) is there for the Executive to use at their leisure. I won't be raising WA unless requested to or if I apply for citizenship again. I want to see Malice with a solid foundation and to the point where it doesn't require a constant engagement from me. Maybe then I'll have free time to frolic among other regions, but until then that's where I'll be.

That's respectable, and as someone that's also running a region I certainly understand...I was just pointing out that Osiris' community seems to have become somewhat more cosmopolitan, and there appears to be more people that have priorities in other regions and organizations as well. I personally consider it a current weakness, but I'm sure it can be argued.

[Biyah]

How positively enlightening all this is. I would never have known half the things I did, if I didn’t read this diatribe. I am -especially- fond of how those who worked so closely with us, helped us plan and such - are making themselves look like cup bearers at the second coming.

Yes, that’s you Cormac and Raven. *salutes*

Both of you got irritated when you’d both flipped too many times, and we cut you out of the central planning. That is the central fact to the OFO - it had nothing to do with Empire, or us, or vaunted philosophies of Freedom and Justice.

It had everything to do with two immature little punks who didn’t understand why their flip-flop behavior, or tendency to blow up at the slightest provocation (Raven and Cormac are both famous for their explosions) should lead to less given trust.

No matter, though. THE COMMUNITY (tm), which is much smaller than it was, all agree - The Empire is to blame. We’ll just go with that, eh? *nods*

Further, dear cormac. Empire personnel were in Osiris from day 1. You should know that. Duh? I take it Osiris was always broken.

Oh, and lay off Earth. Hers was the last decent delegateship Osiris ever had. She and I don’t agree much, but I -will- defend that last period of relative sanity to the death.

~B

[Ambroscus Koth]

Forgive me if I don't value your opinion of what made a good delegate of Osiris, since a crucial criterion for you would most likely be "will do what I tell them".

[Venico]

Huh it's hard to argue that the OFO is based around Cormac and Raven since it was originally my idea...and then Koth's. *scratches head* Alrighty mate.

[Cormacville]

Both of you got irritated when you’d both flipped too many times, and we cut you out of the central planning. That is the central fact to the OFO - it had nothing to do with Empire, or us, or vaunted philosophies of Freedom and Justice.

This isn't at all what happened. I stopped working with you when you turned against Asta, plain and simple. If you'd like Gameplay to believe that you cut me out of anything, I really don't care what Gameplay believes and haven't for many months. But you know better.

I invite you to consider the possibility, given my prior loyalties, that I was never actually working with you anyway.

By the way, as a heads up, when you "cut me out" you forgot to remove my masking on The Empire of The East Pacific forum. You know, the one with access to Pandora's Box.

[Biyah]

You and Koth are just opportunists. Well played, what you did... well played.

And Koth, I honestly don't care what you think about my opinion. Cheers, and all.

[Venico]

By the way, as a heads up, when you "cut me out" you forgot to remove my masking on The Empire of The East Pacific forum. You know, the one with access to Pandora's Box.

[Biyah]

Oh, I know, Cormac. I've been watching to see where that information turns up (duh). That information is years old, everyone knows what Empire did in TEP - it's not secret.

I also left Asta. And Earth. And a few others. Seeing screenshots of it as super-secret information always gives me a chuckle

As for the rest, if you say so, then it must be true. It didn't go down like that, we'll just keep that front up for your comfort. heh.

~B

[Biyah]

Hi Uni

*Or someone Uni-like, I suppose. I could think of a couple others.

[Cerlon]

Classy.

[Venico]

Seems my stalker found someone else. Good riddance.

[Biyah]

Yup, Uni or Henry.

* Probably Henry, as I look it over.

By the by, Gnidrah replied to us within 24 hours, and lead the fight. If he was comatose, he was one VERY ACTIVE sleepy man.

Love and kisses.

~B

[Ambroscus Koth]

i can't stop laughing

posting in epic thread

[Biyah]

Also, I'm bald, but not 40. Lets get it right.

~B

[Zeorus]

I'm not sure I understand the idea that large community necessarily = good. So the community's a bit smaller.....I fail to see this as a problem.

[Biyah]

People being shoved out is not usually considered a good thing. But hey, what do I know - I (well, we) are to blame for everything in Osiris. *shrugs*

[Venico]

Nope, not everything. Just couping it and threatening to tear it in half with civil war about a dozen too many times. Manipulating the crap out of it and extorting people to get your way.

I never claimed you were Earth or anything bad like that.

[Cormacville]

People being shoved out is not usually considered a good thing. But hey, what do I know - I (well, we) are to blame for everything in Osiris. *shrugs*

Oh please. You turned away people you didn't like at the door. You shoved people out. You banned people without trial, people who had literally committed less offense against the region than you had. I can take this criticism from a lot of people, but it's literally absurd coming from you.

[Biyah]

If that's your problem, you forgot to include those who helped or did it themselves. *looks at the list of your conspirators*

Yeah, that's an incomplete answer.

[Ambroscus Koth]

I'd love to know how I've been a manipulative little shit

[Unibot III]

People being shoved out is not usually considered a good thing. But hey, what do I know - I (well, we) are to blame for everything in Osiris. *shrugs*

Oh please. You turned away people you didn't like at the door. You shoved people out. You banned people without trial, people who had literally committed less offense against the region than you had. I can take this criticism from a lot of people, but it's literally absurd coming from you.

There are a lot of people who can criticize Cormac. Biyah is not one of them.

[Biyah]

People being shoved out is not usually considered a good thing. But hey, what do I know - I (well, we) are to blame for everything in Osiris. *shrugs*

Oh please. You turned away people you didn't like at the door. You shoved people out. You banned people without trial, people who had literally committed less offense against the region than you had. I can take this criticism from a lot of people, but it's literally absurd coming from you.

List the people I banned, without Delegate approval. And then list the offenses I gave.

I never just shoved someone out the door. Or you would have been gone the first time you snapped on me, or the second, or the third... along with all the threats that usually went along with you losing your mind.

Etc.

Uni - the day that I listen to you, is the day I'm falling over dead. If anyone in this game is half the ass Im claimed to be, that would be you.