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The Europeia Times - Presidential Election Special

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The Europeia Times
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The Europeia Times - Presidential Election Special

Postby The Europeia Times » Mon Mar 10, 2014 1:50 pm

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The following is a private media production and is in no way associated with or sanctioned by the government of Europeia

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Issue #1
10 March 2014



Interview with Venico
by Elias Greyjoy


1) First off, Venico, thank you for joining us as the first interviewee here at the Europeia Times. You've made your name as a raider that comes from one of the not so standard groups in the world, which you co-founded. Why did you choose to pursue the formation of the Brotherhood of Malice instead of one of the more "traditional" raider outfits?

Thank you for having me. I was shocked that I was asked for your first interview. To answer your question we have to go to the origins of the Brotherhood in a region called Asgard. This was my first region, my first home, where I first started raiding, and funnily enough where I got my first taste of the Security Council.We raided Christmas in July of 2012 and after a long hold, we put a password up. However, Liberate Christmas was passed swifly (sic) enough and the raid was over like that. Done.

It was about a month after that, when Cormac went defender (it was shocking the first time I swear), that Asgard fractured and split. The main thing that always caused stress in Asgard was the political end of it while the military and cultural sides provided a relief from that. I approached Koth about making a back up plan and the first thing we decided was that the region would avoid politics. There was no reason to avoid culture, that was fun. It bonds people and gives them something to do when they're WA immobile or between updates. To eliminate a part of the region which is dedicated to relaxing and enjoying your friends, well that's just silly.

2) What sets the Brotherhood of Malice apart from, say, The Black Riders or Lone Wolves United, or even a military outfit like Europeia?

First off, I want to thank The Black Riders. In September 2012, when Malice was just starting, Koth and I were having trouble starting up BoM and really getting on the board. We joined TBR though and that is where we learned most of our military skills. Because of them we became good at raiding. We learned how to tag, we learned how to update quickly, and we learned how to train troops. We owe a lot to them for that.

What separates us though is our equal focus on community as well as military. Now that sounds like a line and sometimes I wish it just was. Building up a foundation of culture and activity is a far greater challenge than planning any raid. But as the name implies, we want a strong bond between our members, a brotherly bond. You don't even have to raid to enjoy BoM. That's kind of the point. Another aspect is the equality among members. While the officers make decisions, we listen to every person's opinion. From Private to General to the Game Master of our Nation RP.

I also wanted to found this region based on the bond that Koth and I share. I know I can trust him with anything in this game. We've known each other since nearly elementary school and that sort of established bond helps us through this game immensely. I want everyone to share that experience. Friendship, bonding, and fun.

3) Recently, you orchestrated a public shaming, for lack of a better term, of the World Assembly Security Council via a mock proposal intended to show that Security Council has some very large potential flaws to be exploited. What was your specific goal with this proposal, and have you achieved your desired outcome?

Specifically? I wanted a way to win in St Abbaddon. A refound would be ludicrous and would require us sitting in the region for six months twiddling our thumbs. No one wanted that. So I came up with a way to turn the region into Warzone Abbaddon and write the operation into the history books. I call that a win every day of the week. And if it's repealed? Well that's two Security Council numbers attached to our mission. Count that as a double win.

Another goal with this proposal was to bring attention to how broken the Liberation system is and how easily the Security Council can encroach on Gameplay with very little effort. This proposal shows how as long as something sounds good intentioned, it will pass. Even if we publicly announce our intention with this proposal is to ruin the region, we still win by a landslide because "Liberate..." sounds good.

4) Your main criticism with the above proposal, in my eyes, is that the Security Council is largely far too eager to pass to pre-emptive Liberations and show Defender-leaning tendencies. Now, being an ardent SC stalwart that I am, I would counter to say that this isn't to be heaped on a bias or favoritism from the SC, but the approving Delegates and their inattentiveness to the subject of proposals. Your response? Is that a fair counterargument?

I think it's a bit of both. I think given the margin most Liberations pass by compared to Commendations, Condemnations, and GA proposals, an argument can be made that many WA Delegates and voters tend to be biased toward defenders. But the lack of scrutiny of these proposals is also a problem. In this case they didn't even bother to look into who the author was, if the natives wanted it, or to see if the region was even griefed in the slightest.

5) Let's get away from these serious topics a bit. Explain to our uninformed readers what (or who) the gods of Raider Unity are. You're a self-proclaimed priest of Raider Unity - what exactly do you do in that capacity?

The main god of Raiderdom is also the god of TBR, Raideron. He is the main force behind raiders everywhere. However, us Brothers of Malice pray to a different god. We pray to the Overseer. He's darker and more sinister. He stays in the shadows and slips a knife in the backs of his enemies without being seen. He's guided every assassin of the Brotherhood who has offered a prayer to him. He's advised every leader that Malice has had.

My responsibilities as a Priest of Raider Unity is to ensure that raiders are aware of the bonds between every raider. As generations change and new faces start showing up, I never want our side to forget what makes us stronger. I never want any raider to forget that we are strong because we stand by each other as brothers. It's a sacred code amongst raiders and if it's ever forgotten our side will fall apart.

6) What can we expect from the Brotherhood of Malice in the upcoming year? Any big parties planned out?

Well I think that you should be expecting a lot from us. The year has just begun and we've already established a functioning government in Osiris, outed a couper in TNP, and have written our names in the Security Council. Heck it's not even Spring yet. I'll definitely be organizing some culture event to be hosted by the Brothehood and if you liked our Malicious Broadcasts, well I have another idea similar to that which is under work as we speak. So in short, a lot.

7) Thank you for your time, Venico - it's been a pleasure! If you have anything else you'd like to add, feel free to do so now.

It's been an absolute pleasure and I can't wait to see where the Brotherhood of Malice is a year from now. We're all putting in a lot of hard work and we're going to see it pay off if it kills us.


A Shot Off Mark

Why the latest Security Council controversy isn't all it's cracked up to be
by Elias Greyjoy


Ah, the Security Council - bastion of peace, cooperation, friendly collabor....phhh hahaha I can't even get through that sentence without laughing. As an extension, in large part, of the military gameplay in NationStates, the Security Council is basically where raiders and defenders go to back-pat their own ilk (with the occasional intrusion by some Roleplay nonsense). In that regard, the Security Council often faces criticisms of being slanted toward one side or the other, with most of the complaints centered around a Defender-biased council. This stems from the game-altering mechanic of the Liberation, a tool used to prevent Delegate-imposed passwords on regions. While some may argue that this tool can be used both ways, an offensive (i.e. opening a region up for targeting) Liberation has never been successfully employed. The more and more common preemptive Liberation is the act of passing a Liberation for a region that doesn't yet have a password set by an occupying force, but one the WA believes may in the near future.

The sheer ease that Liberation proposals fly through the Security Council nowadays is simply insane, as it costs less than $2.00 to buy enough stamps to hit every Delegate in the world and still have a few hundred leftovers. And, in a world so riled up by tag raids from TBR and long-term occupations and military strikes by multitudes of other regions, Liberations are usually quick to pass no matter what the subject. This theory was recently put to the test by a group of well-known Gameplayers - Cormac and Venico of The Brotherhood of Malice aided by Douria. The trio set out to pen, submit, and, ultimately, pass, a Liberation proposal regarding the Brotherhood of Malice and their occupation of St Abbaddon. An anonymous puppet was used by Douria to write and submit the proposal, which quickly garnered enough approvals to go to vote. Within the first few minutes of voting, multiple, large vote-carrying Delegates had whisked the proposal to a strong 600-0 lead IN FAVOR. The lemmings took care of the rest.

After the proposal was well on it's way to passage, Cormac et al came forward with their scheme, illustrating what they believed to have accomplished with the ruse, summarized as the "stupidity of passing or even approving preemptive Liberation resolutions." Cormac also goes on to claim that "We have still managed to illustrate the foolishness of preemptive Liberation resolutions, undermine the credibility of the Security Council, [and] embarrass defenders." I'm going to make the case as to why this proposal is equivalent to sticking ones hand in water and then declaring it wet - this just tells us what we already knew.

First, some context. I'm comfortable making the statement that the majority of nations in the game, be they WA or not, are defender-supporters, or at least anti-raider in some capacity. I'm also comfortable putting a lot of the onus for that state of mind on The Black Riders and (what I consider to be) their predecessors, The Black Hawks. Ceaseless and broad-scope tag raids by TBR have brought raiding to the front door of many regions and nations that would have otherwise remained untouched. This is easy to see when a factually incorrect and poorly-written Condemnation of TBR is allowed to stand - small-time Delegates and regions fear TBR. Now, with that in mind, let's proceed.

Everyone with even a shred of historical context or up-to-date military knowledge knows that the Security Council is biased towards defenders. The Security Council was created, in large part, to combat some of the very first raiders, and the only gameplay mechanism it has in its arsenal has only been used successfully in a Defender capacity. Passing this proposal did nothing to undermine the Security Council any more than it already was. Anyone who argues that the Security Council is an unbiased organization is wrong - plain and simple. Passing a Defender proposal through a Defender council isn't anything to be surprised or exuberant about, as if some deep, unknown truth had just been uncovered. The majority of nations in the world are anti-raider, and therefore will, of course, be in favor of passing Liberations despite their context. No real shocker there. To attribute the approval and eventual passage of this proposal to the lack of insight in the Security Council is pinning the tail on the wrong donkey. The Security Council didn't approve or vote for this proposal - that fault lies with uninformed nations and regions casting their votes willy-nilly without any context or information. Cormac is spot on later in his analysis wherein he states that "WA Delegates and voters have become so accustomed to just approving any Liberation resolution that comes their way, even in the absence of any evidence that it is needed."

Cormac goes on to further claim that "We have turned the Security Council upside down, manipulating it to do the exact opposite of what it is intended to do and receiving substantial, unwitting defender support in order to do so." Turned it upside down? By getting a Defender-oriented proposal approved by defender-oriented Delegates who later voted, in their capacity as defender-oriented vote-holders, on a defender-oriented proposal? Sorry - I just don't see that. Yes, this proposal has more clearly illustrated that defender bias in the SC is rampant, but it certainly isn't a groundbreaking moment where every WA nation should say "Ah ha!"

While an interesting project that certainly looks humiliating for the supporting defender Delegates, turns out that someone discovered a long time ago that water is, indeed, wet.


The Lazarene Selection

The state of democracy in the People's Republic should worry democratic advocates.
by Cormac Stark Somerset


It was big news last week when Milograd stepped down as Delegate of Lazarus and Chairman of the People's Republic of Lazarus, announcing a "closed election" to select his successor. To the surprise of virtually no one who has paid attention to Lazarus over the past few months, Kazmr emerged as the victor over the more moderate Hobbesistan and longtime native Stujenske. Kazmr, previously Governor of the Information District responsible for publication of The Lazarene Gazette, has been among the People's Republic's most fervent ideologues. It is little surprise that in this age of ideological extremism for Lazarus, Kazmr has been selected to take the reins over others who may have taken a more moderate and pragmatic approach to interregional relations.

Nonetheless, this election should be welcomed as a positive development for the People's Republic as it moves toward greater democracy, right? Well, yes and no.

To be sure, any election at all is more democratic than the way in which Milograd and his predecessor Harmoneia were selected to serve as Delegate of Lazarus. Both were chosen by their predecessor without election. Still, to celebrate the election of Kazmr as a triumph of democracy in Lazarus is to be far too optimistic. The candidates in the election that resulted in Kazmr's victory were chosen by outgoing Chairman Milograd; there was no opportunity for citizens of the People's Republic to stand for Chairman, nor even to be nominated by other citizens. Public campaigning was also prohibited, and to outside observers it appeared that the election had ended in Kazmr's victory and he had been transitioned into the Delegacy of Lazarus quicker than most people had a chance to realize an election was occurring in Lazarus.

Contrast this with the election conducted by the Osiris Fraternal Order in January. That election saw longtime natives Lord Ravenclaw and Hileville competing with each other and with Cameron Romefeller, Chief of Foreign Affairs for the United Defenders League, in free, fair, and open elections -- elections so open that no one even batted an eyelash when a prominent defender stood for Delegate in a raider-leaning region. Although some may argue that Osiris still has a democratic deficit, there can be no question that the January election in Osiris was far closer to the democratic standards of most other Feeders and Sinkers than last week's election in Lazarus. This method of selecting a new Delegate in Lazarus is far more reminiscent of the dictatorial style of the New Pacific Order, albeit in a more subtle form that showcases a facade of democratic self-determination.

The contrasts between the People's Republic of Lazarus and the Osiris Fraternal Order do not end there. In the latter case, it was made clear by allies and skeptics alike that a swift transition to democratic self-governance was an expectation that must be met in order to maintain or, in some cases, establish the fledgling regime's legitimacy. This external advocacy for democracy left little doubt in the minds of the Osiran leadership that the way forward for Osiris must follow a democratic path. No similar pressure has been applied to Lazarus, and it shows. Perhaps regions that quickly recognized the People's Republic as the legitimate government of Lazarus hoped that this swift acceptance of the regime into the interregional community would urge it toward democracy. If that was the hope, those hopes were dashed last week as Lazarenes were given the opportunity to choose a Delegate only from among candidates approved by the regime with no public exchange of ideas or debate over issues facing the region.

It is possible that this small step toward democracy may lead to greater strides in Lazarus. It is equally possible that with an ideological extremist now in power, this "closed election" will become a precedent that will be repeated and we will never see a more democratic Lazarus. What is undoubtedly true is that democratic advocates shouldn't expect to see the glacial pace of democratic reform in the People's Republic pick up speed while no external pressure is being applied. If the interregional community wants to see a more democratic Lazarus, it's time for the same advocates of democracy who were so firm in their insistence on democratic self-governance in Osiris to take off the kid gloves and insist that the illiberal status quo in Lazarus must change if the regime is to remain a member in good standing of the interregional community.


Europeia Set for Third Consecutive Election with Little Competition

Anumia is poised to go all but uncontested into Goldenblock for the third consecutive term, setting the Europeian record for most time as President should he complete another term
by The Europeia Times Staff


Europeian elections as of late haven't exactly been a neck and neck race. With incumbent Anumia blowing out Elias Greyjoy (24-8) and --- (29-9) in the last two elections, an even more slanted outcome is likely in the upcoming election, slated to begin 14 March. Currently, the only challenger to Anumia and Vice President Malashaan is Zenny, proprietor of The Zenyan newspaper, and former Senator Charlotte, whose platform as of now reads "Zenny/Charlotte: Boobies We Can Believe In." Europeian media is already ready to confer the Presidency to Anumia, but one wonders why the race has been so uncompetitive thus far.

Anumia's Presidency, while certainly ambitious, has definitely fallen short on some expectations. Touting a grand, interregional plan known as the Great Architecture Project (GAP) in his defeat of Elias Greyjoy, Anumia laid plans for a grandiose sharing network that promised to share the strong attributes of Europeia with lesser regions. This has, through two terms, not been the case. No public announcements have been made as to any regions in the GAP and public updates as to the progress of the monumental project have been referred to as "glacial." While making some excellent strides in the Interior (primarily due to an excellent replacement Minister in Mousebumples who has revitalized the dead department previously focused on manual nation recruitment) and maintaining decent levels of activity in the Navy and Culture, Anumia's Foreign Affairs Minister has been non-existenct on a public front and has not been active in Europeia since February and is now under consideration for a recall from his Senate seat. While Anumia has admittedly been on top of FA by himself, the lack of public updates have left some wondering what, if any, progress is being made both on the GAP and other FA issues.

Many middle-tier contenders, including Elias Greyjoy, former Minister of Foreign Affairs and Grand Admiral, Drecq, long-time Senate Speaker, simply don't have the clout to dislodge a long-time member like Anumia, especially in the middle of such a grand project. This can be pinpointed as the primary reason for such lack of competition at the ballot box in Europeia - Anumia is simply too prominent to allow any break-through contenders to have a reasonable shot. This will provide some interesting results once Anumia decides not to run. The power vacuum left almost guarantees that prominent members like Drecq, Elias Greyjoy, and maybe even Common-Sense Politics and Cerian Quilor will make a run at the Presidency, stirring up Europeian politics again.


The Eternal Knights Turn Out to Be Not So Eternal

Gameplay has a new laughing stock
by The Europeia Times Staff


Gameplay goes through some pretty big gaffes with the inherent competition and vitriol of the R/D game taking center stage and the variety of personalities on both sides of military gameplay. The Eternal Knights (TEK) have set a new standard for grievously, painfully, laughable behavior.

As first reported in the Lazarene Gazette, TEK, the self-proclaimed cleansing force that would destroy Gameplay as we know it, has all but dissolved at the hands of their now-paranoid founder, Nephmir, who purged the region of long-time natives after declaring war against the People's Republic of Lazarus, going so far in his self-importance to password protect his region as if Lazarus would be caught dead giving his region more than the tabloid press it so rightly deserves. Nephmir has now abandoned any scrap of dignity he had left by discarding the founding principles of his region and organization, stating that the region wishes to join in to "raider unity," a pipe dream that is already pretty much impossible to get, since TEK originally rose to combat TBR tag raiding, and has since alienated many prominent raider and independent military organizations.

Not an unforeseeable outcome, TEK has long been the ridicule of the Gameplay world for making claims such that NS++, Afforess' add-on for increased NS functionality, is the primary way in which military organizations conduct business and that Gameplay would be destroyed by The Eternal Knights. In their brief, barely two-month existence, TEK has proven that being both uninformed as to modern military gameplay and technologies in conjunction with a penance for opening ones mouth with such misinformation doesn't go hand-in-hand with anything labeled "eternal."
Last edited by United Calanworie on Sun May 14, 2023 8:42 pm, edited 5 times in total.
The Europeia Times, Issue #2, out now!

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Funkadelia
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Founded: Apr 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Funkadelia » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:01 pm

The assertions in this article about Lazarus are absolutely ludicrous.

We are not a democracy, and we take pride in that fact. Our Constitution says that we are a dictatorship. Just because it is not a democracy does not mean that it has no legitimacy. It is by consent of the people. If you read the laws of Lazarus (there aren't many), you'd see that the Chairman can be removed at any time by the People's Congress. Also, there was a nomination process before the election, and the names nominated by the people were the names presented in the election, except for mine because I refused to run.

We never even wanted to champion this election as some grand victory for democracy in Lazarus. We made no point to brag about how democratic we were being with the election. It was just a means of selecting our next Honorable Chairman.

Of course, I know that the goal of Cormac's article wasn't to use facts but instead project some kind of absurd opinion in order to trash Lazarus in a frankly nonsensical and baseless manner, so I guess I shouldn't expect much more.
Last edited by Funkadelia on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Funkadelia

Former Delegate of Lazarus (x3)
Proscribed TWICE by The South Pacific


WA Security Council Resolution Author (x2)
SC#161
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Carta
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Founded: Oct 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Carta » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:05 pm

The Europeain Times wrote:It is possible that this small step toward democracy may lead to greater strides in Lazarus. It is equally possible that with an ideological extremist now in power, this "closed election" will become a precedent that will be repeated and we will never see a more democratic Lazarus. What is undoubtedly true is that democratic advocates shouldn't expect to see the glacial pace of democratic reform in the People's Republic pick up speed while no external pressure is being applied. If the interregional community wants to see a more democratic Lazarus, it's time for the same advocates of democracy who were so firm in their insistence on democratic self-governance in Osiris to take off the kid gloves and insist that the illiberal status quo in Lazarus must change if the regime is to remain a member in good standing of the interregional community.

LOL. The Europeian Times, in its first issue, is advocating for foreign influences to pressure our GCR community's chosen system of governance for the sake of remedying a non-existent issue of standing. Why am I not surprised by this?

:rofl:

If there's an issue with our standing, this is certainly the first we've heard about it.

Save for the people who are still butthurt that their hand was taken out of the cookie jar, Lazarus enjoys positive relations with a wide range of groups and people. I'm doubtful that anyone new - that is, anyone other than the imperialist sphere - will raise arms to solve a non-existent issue of good standing in the interregional community. We're quite healthy in standing; indeed, we're treatied to four game-created regions, just had a cultural exchange with The North Pacific, are active militarily and have a network of dedicated allies in the UCRs, and have been recognized as the legitimate government of our region since the day we started. The only people we're not on good terms with are people like you and TNI.

We're in "good standing" with our native community and everybody except or the type of people that refuse to let us govern in the way that our community has chosen. Those people are exploitationists like you, evidently, and are the ideological antithesis to the PRL's value of the right to self-determination in game-created regions. This isn't about democracy for the elements that advocate for pressuring Lazarus: this is about what's most convenient for foreign propagandists and influences who are still waiting for a chance to catch a rebound in Lazarus and rebuild their lethargic entrenchment and foreign influence in the region.
See this is the way that we walk on a sunny day, when it's raining inside !

Hail the Revolution! Hail the People's Republic! All glory to the Doge!

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Kazmr
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Founded: Aug 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kazmr » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:07 pm

I was fairly surprised at my election as the next chairman. I guess that makes me virtually no one ;_;

Edit: also, what they said ^
Last edited by Kazmr on Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Former Chairman of the Peoples Republic of Lazarus
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Vaculatestar64
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Founded: Feb 18, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Vaculatestar64 » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:44 pm

It's not like they are pretending to be a democracy or anything. They are what they are and it seems to be working regardless of whether or not anyone else likes it. Personally I wish the new Chairman all the best as he leads Lazarus into future success.

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Drop Your Pants
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Founded: Apr 17, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Drop Your Pants » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:50 pm

Why is Cormac trying to stop comparisons of Lazarus and Osiris? No one in their right minds thinks ts the same thing. But yay cormac wrote about us. Could have been worse.......could have been cerian.
Happily oblivious to NS Drama and I rarely pay attention beyond 5 minutes

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Common-Sense Politics
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Founded: Sep 26, 2009
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Common-Sense Politics » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:30 pm

Drop Your Pants wrote:Why is Cormac trying to stop comparisons of Lazarus and Osiris? No one in their right minds thinks ts the same thing. But yay cormac wrote about us. Could have been worse.......could have been cerian.

:lol:
President of Europeia

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Unibot III
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:06 pm

Some confusion may lie in the fact that Marxists, at least those in the School of Marx, do believe in Democracy (which is the path to Socialism), but reject Liberal Democracy. To some commentators here it may be hard to imagine Democracy without Liberalism. Note however, democracy for Marxists is a means, not an end in and of itself -- this is important.

Marx argues Liberal Democracy is a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie, while Marxist Democracy would be a Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

How is Liberal Democracy, bad? Well, fundamentally Marx sees it as democracy for the rich. Voting systems and mechanisms for public participation are inherently exclusionary against the poor. In NationStates, this translates to having huge swathes of people in regions with the claim that their leader is "representative" -- when he or she is no more representative of the thousands of players in that region (that didn't approve his or her leadership) than the Easter Bunny.

That is, if we think of forum communities are the elite and the rest of the region as being the poor in terms of political capital, involvement and access -- liberal democracies in NationStates aim to empower the elite and obscure their rule with false legitimacy, while the Marxist democracy would aim to empower the "poor" as a class and serve their interests.

EDIT: I was just trying to clarify some things here because I felt the debate was a bit circular - one side screaming "We're not Democratic!" and the other side screaming, "You're not Democratic!".
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Pergamon
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Founded: Oct 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Pergamon » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:13 pm

Well I have to say the same as my fellow comrades. We are NO democracy and that's the way we like it, yo!

HAIL THE PRL!
PACIFICA STAND STRONG

Senator Emeritus of The Pacific - Ret. Regent of the New Pacific Order

"The only war that matters is the war of the Feederite Class against the Userite. UCR Organizations and Cabals that befoul GCR with their presence, disguised as ruling elite within them, must be removed and their power must be broken. This is the ultimate imperative of the Revolutionaries true to the GCR and the Pacifics, which have nothing to lose but the chains from Userite oppression."

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Cormacville
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Founded: Nov 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormacville » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:48 pm

Carta wrote:LOL. The Europeian Times, in its first issue, is advocating for foreign influences to pressure our GCR community's chosen system of governance for the sake of remedying a non-existent issue of standing. Why am I not surprised by this?

I'm advocating for consistency. The South Pacific, The North Pacific, and The East Pacific waited until a constitution had been passed that ensured democratic self-governance and an election for Delegate had been held before recognizing the Osiris Fraternal Order. The Rejected Realms still does not. Meanwhile, all four regions have applied zero public pressure to the People's Republic of Lazarus to implement democracy.

The results are fairly clear: The Osiris Fraternal Order is more democratic than the preceding KRO government, while the People's Republic of Lazarus is far less democratic than the preceding Lazarene government in which Feux was elected and re-elected Delegate in free, fair, and open elections. If these regions actually care so much about democracy as a universal norm in Feeders and Sinkers, as they seemed to when the OFO was established, they will stop coddling the anti-democratic tendencies of the Lazarene regime.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Founder of Over the Rainbow

"We are all misfits living in a world on fire." - Kelly Clarkson

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Karputsk
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Founded: May 10, 2007
Democratic Socialists

Postby Karputsk » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:53 pm

I always got the impression that it was Osiris' recent history of instability that was the major concern in the aftermath. People wanted to see Osiris return to a constitutional system to prove it was serious about its stability.
~Commander of the Rejected Realms Army~

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Venico
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Founded: Mar 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Venico » Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:58 pm

So much hype over Laz and not even a single comment about my interview. Le sigh ;w; Back into the shadows of unknown and obscurity I go.
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Tano
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Founded: Dec 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Tano » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Venico wrote:So much hype over Laz and not even a single comment about my interview. Le sigh ;w; Back into the shadows of unknown and obscurity I go.

You asked for it :P

"I also wanted to found this region based on the bond that Koth and I share. I know I can trust him with anything in this game. We've known each other since nearly elementary school and that sort of established bond helps us through this game immensely. I want everyone to share that experience. Friendship, bonding, and fun."

You really seem like you have a special bond. Reeeal special. Some might say....super special.

*pulls out Koth/Venico fanfictions and starts reading them*
Tano Holland
Govindia: Do you consider me a friend, or just an acquaintance or what?
hobbes: I don't particularly consider anyone a true 'friend'
hobbes: at least,not on NS
Govindia: why is that?
hobbes: because
hobbes: everyone here is a jackass
hobbes: myself included

Pixie: *heart sploosh*
Tano: if your heart is splooshing you should contact a doctor
Tano: hearts are supposed to thump not sploosh
Pixie: No this is normal
Pixie: intense emotion causes me to hemorrage internally
Pixie: my life is like a really depressing comedic episode of The X-Files

Khron: we need an achievment of rem's face just for Tano
Pixie: haha
Pixie: "be Tano"

Brunhilde: My quotes should be in more signatures.

Also known as Takane or Terisclu

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Funkadelia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 896
Founded: Apr 14, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Funkadelia » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:02 pm

Cormacville wrote:
Carta wrote:LOL. The Europeian Times, in its first issue, is advocating for foreign influences to pressure our GCR community's chosen system of governance for the sake of remedying a non-existent issue of standing. Why am I not surprised by this?

I'm advocating for consistency. The South Pacific, The North Pacific, and The East Pacific waited until a constitution had been passed that ensured democratic self-governance and an election for Delegate had been held before recognizing the Osiris Fraternal Order.

Most were waiting for a stable government that had support from the people. This is not regarding the personal wishes and aspirations of individuals who would like to see something different in Osiris.
Funkadelia

Former Delegate of Lazarus (x3)
Proscribed TWICE by The South Pacific


WA Security Council Resolution Author (x2)
SC#161
SC#182

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Cormacville
Envoy
 
Posts: 218
Founded: Nov 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormacville » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:09 pm

Karputsk wrote:I always got the impression that it was Osiris' recent history of instability that was the major concern in the aftermath. People wanted to see Osiris return to a constitutional system to prove it was serious about its stability.

The South Pacific, at least, was quite clear that the direction this constitutional system needed to take was a democratic direction. There was much more private pressure for democracy communicated to the OFO than public, but in the case of Lazarus I've seen zero evidence of any such pressure. Belschaft, one of the leading non-defender critics of the OFO, applied for citizenship and put himself forward for judicial office in the PRL. Glen-Rhodes has been positively gleeful about TSP relations with the PRL but was dead set against the TSP Cabinet statement that even opened the door to future relations with the OFO. Both cited the need not just for a return to constitutional governance but to democratic governance as a reason for their criticism.

Osiris' history of instability is a valid point, but Lazarus prior to the PRL was unstable in a different sense. Its forum community and government were inactive and miniscule, comprised at least in part of opportunists pursuing foreign agendas, and that was clear for all to see. And yet despite this instability, seen not in coups d'etat but chronic inactivity, no one bothered to insist that the government which overthrew the unstable government that preceded it should be democratic.
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Founder of Over the Rainbow

"We are all misfits living in a world on fire." - Kelly Clarkson

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Consular
Minister
 
Posts: 3019
Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:09 pm

Tano wrote:
Venico wrote:So much hype over Laz and not even a single comment about my interview. Le sigh ;w; Back into the shadows of unknown and obscurity I go.

You asked for it :P

"I also wanted to found this region based on the bond that Koth and I share. I know I can trust him with anything in this game. We've known each other since nearly elementary school and that sort of established bond helps us through this game immensely. I want everyone to share that experience. Friendship, bonding, and fun."

You really seem like you have a special bond. Reeeal special. Some might say....super special.

*pulls out Koth/Venico fanfictions and starts reading them*

oh god tano why

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Carta
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Posts: 90
Founded: Oct 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Carta » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:10 pm

Cormacville wrote:
Carta wrote:LOL. The Europeian Times, in its first issue, is advocating for foreign influences to pressure our GCR community's chosen system of governance for the sake of remedying a non-existent issue of standing. Why am I not surprised by this?

I'm advocating for consistency. The South Pacific, The North Pacific, and The East Pacific waited until a constitution had been passed that ensured democratic self-governance and an election for Delegate had been held before recognizing the Osiris Fraternal Order. The Rejected Realms still does not. Meanwhile, all four regions have applied zero public pressure to the People's Republic of Lazarus to implement democracy.

The results are fairly clear: The Osiris Fraternal Order is more democratic than the preceding KRO government, while the People's Republic of Lazarus is far less democratic than the preceding Lazarene government in which Feux was elected and re-elected Delegate in free, fair, and open elections. If these regions actually care so much about democracy as a universal norm in Feeders and Sinkers, as they seemed to when the OFO was established, they will stop coddling the anti-democratic tendencies of the Lazarene regime.


The lack of "condemnation" of the PRL's government style exists because TNP, TSP, and TEP respect our right to govern ourselves as we please. Those regions are not out to pursue a foreign policy agenda that is imperialistic, and we maintain positive relations with each region; indeed, we have a strong treaty with TEP, which is perhaps our closest ally, we have a NAP with TSP, and we're close enough with TNP to the point where we were recently able to enjoy a cultural exchange. Also, they have Flem, so they must be all right. :P

Osiris, however, had been repeatedly couped to the point where these governments needed to be sure that the OFO was stable and popular amongst natives. The wait was not a question of them caring how you govern yourselves as much as it was a question of Osiris' stability, as I see it. The OFO was not achieved legally and that, along with the civil war, Brotherhood of Malice flag atop the region, and recent history of coups led the international community to pause and wait before being certain that they could grant the OFO their recognition. I don't think it had much of anything to do with how democratic you are: it had to do with making sure they weren't recognizing a regime that would fall on its face and disappear as quickly as it came. Once the OFO seemed like it was likely to stick around, TNP, TSP and TEP granted you recognition.

Nonetheless, I believe that the regions you speak of care more about the right to self-determination than the sort of manipulative interventionist posturing that you espouse. Your calls for "pressuring Lazarus" because Osiris got different treatment than us seems petty at best, and like a disrespectful interventionist maneuver at worst.
See this is the way that we walk on a sunny day, when it's raining inside !

Hail the Revolution! Hail the People's Republic! All glory to the Doge!

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Carta
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Founded: Oct 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Carta » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:18 pm

Oh, and for reference, since the article clearly needs some research.

The idea to prohibit campaigning was actually inspired by The East Pacific's very similar system, and we think it's served them quite well. We took it a bit further, but in TEP you're not allowed to campaign outside of your own thread, and it's worth noting that the candidates were outspoken during the Vice-Chairman election. In fact, each and every single one of the candidates, only had positive things to say about the lack of campaigning. None of them wanted to campaign.

Cormac is entitled to his opinion of how we govern, but our internal opinions of the system were pretty positive, and no one who wasn't already on the ballot expressed a desire to be on it:

Hobbesistan wrote:I agree entirely.

Kazmr wrote:Sounds good to me.

Stujenske wrote:Couldn't put it better myself

Bodobol wrote:I can see where you're coming from and I don't really disagree.

Alexej wrote:I think the faster we have this important change, the better it is. Leadership changes leave the state temporary weak. I want Lazarus to be strong.

Funkadelia wrote:I'm glad you've taken this stance. I agree.


It shouldn't come as a surprise that Kazmr won because he defeated both the candidates who stood in opposition to him for the position of Vice-Chairman merely a month ago, which shows that he had their favor lready; during that time, there was actually a lot of campaigning and we spent a good week and a half trying to set up an IRC debate, only to have Kazmr win by a sizable margin. The fact that he won the Chairman vote shouldn't come as a surprise: he's perhaps the most popular and consistently active regionalist member of the Lazarene government, and he comfortably defeated Hobbes and Funkadelia a month ago.
See this is the way that we walk on a sunny day, when it's raining inside !

Hail the Revolution! Hail the People's Republic! All glory to the Doge!

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Cormacville
Envoy
 
Posts: 218
Founded: Nov 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormacville » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:19 pm

Carta wrote:Nonetheless, I believe that the regions you speak of care more about the right to self-determination than the sort of manipulative interventionist posturing that you espouse. Your calls for "pressuring Lazarus" because Osiris got different treatment than us seems petty at best, and like a disrespectful interventionist maneuver at worst.

I don't see it as either petty or interventionist, I see it simply as consistent. If these regions care as much about Feeder and Sinker democracy as they claim, their very different responses to Lazarus and Osiris don't make any sense.

For me, this is much more about how the interregional community has reacted to the PRL than it is about the PRL. I personally am not a democratic advocate; I think regions should adopt the system of governance that works best for them. But for democratic advocates like Belschaft and Glen-Rhodes, it doesn't make any sense for them to have such a rosy outlook on the PRL.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Founder of Over the Rainbow

"We are all misfits living in a world on fire." - Kelly Clarkson

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7113
Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:22 pm

The international community saw Osiris as a failed state -- when a state is a failed state it basically becomes everyone's business of what to do with it, unfortunately. Lazarus's transition on the other hand was stable and ordered. There weren't claims floating about whether Lazarus was a failed state, so it maintained more interregional respect in regards to how it governed itself.

EDIT: Also, Belschaft was a huge critic of the PRL.
Last edited by Unibot III on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
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Carta
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Posts: 90
Founded: Oct 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Carta » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:27 pm

Cormacville wrote:
Carta wrote:Nonetheless, I believe that the regions you speak of care more about the right to self-determination than the sort of manipulative interventionist posturing that you espouse. Your calls for "pressuring Lazarus" because Osiris got different treatment than us seems petty at best, and like a disrespectful interventionist maneuver at worst.

I don't see it as either petty or interventionist, I see it simply as consistent. If these regions care as much about Feeder and Sinker democracy as they claim, their very different responses to Lazarus and Osiris don't make any sense.

Firstly, I don't think TNP, TSP, or TEP have ever claimed to have a desire to impose democracy on other GCRs. TEP is very close with the NPO, TSP used to be extremely close with the NPO, and TNP has an excellent track record of respecting the right to self-determination abroad. None of these regions have ever pursued a foreign policy agenda that has featured against other GCRs to conform to their preferred system of governance. I think you know this quite well.

Secondly, you simply can't expect consistency from two situations that are inconsistent with each other. This line of logic is a dead end. The OFO emerged from a chaotic year of coups and internal instability. The PRL emerged from the Emerald Council legally voting to dissolve itself in a region that hasn't been couped in years. There's just no similarity upon which you can base a call for "consistency" upon.

Cormacville wrote:[For me, this is much more about how the interregional community has reacted to the PRL than it is about the PRL. I personally am not a democratic advocate; I think regions should adopt the system of governance that works best for them. But for democratic advocates like Belschaft and Glen-Rhodes, it doesn't make any sense for them to have such a rosy outlook on the PRL.


If you're not a democratic advocate, then I think it only goes to show that you have an obscured motive for making these calls. Why would you ask that a regime that you think deserves the right to "adopt the system of governance that works best for them" to be pressured by the international community if you're not a democratic advocate or feeling petty about the OFO's treatment? I'd love to hear your reasoning for this "article", because I can't imagine it being anything but either a petty act out of frustration, or, most likely, an unnecessary and rude interventionist maneuver against the PRL.
Last edited by Carta on Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
See this is the way that we walk on a sunny day, when it's raining inside !

Hail the Revolution! Hail the People's Republic! All glory to the Doge!

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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
Posts: 2937
Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:27 pm

Remind me again when Europeia suddenly started having issues with dictatorships in general?

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SkyDip
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1735
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SkyDip » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Remind me again when Europeia suddenly started having issues with dictatorships in general?


The Europeia Times wrote:The following is a private media production and is in no way associated with or sanctioned by the government of Europeia
Elias Thaddeus Greyjoy, WA Ambassador of SkyDip
Read my Guide to the Security Council, a comprehensive collection of history, tactics, and tips for the Security Council!


Gordano and Lysandus wrote:SkyDip's actions have, ultimately, destroyed the World Assembly.

Eist wrote:Yea... If you are just going to casually dismiss SkyDip's advice, you are probably not going to get very far at all.

Sedgistan wrote:SkyDip is trying to help, and is giving sound advice. I'd suggestion listening to him, as he has experience of writing (and advising others with) legal proposals.

Frisbeeteria wrote:What Skydip said. This bitchfest is an embarrassment to the Security Council.

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Carta
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Founded: Oct 22, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Carta » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:29 pm

Klaus Devestatorie wrote:Remind me again when Europeia suddenly started having issues with dictatorships in general?

It's time to elect the next Emperor of the LKE. :P
See this is the way that we walk on a sunny day, when it's raining inside !

Hail the Revolution! Hail the People's Republic! All glory to the Doge!

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Cormacville
Envoy
 
Posts: 218
Founded: Nov 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormacville » Mon Mar 10, 2014 7:37 pm

Carta wrote:If you're not a democratic advocate, then I think it only goes to show that you have an obscured motive for making these calls. Why would you ask that a regime that you think deserves the right to "adopt the system of governance that works best for them" to be pressured by the international community if you're not a democratic advocate or feeling petty about the OFO's treatment? I'd love to hear your reasoning for this "article", because I can't imagine it being anything but either a petty act out of frustration, or, most likely, an unnecessary and rude interventionist maneuver against the PRL.

My reasoning for the article was providing an alternative perspective on your recent election, which is news, in a newspaper. Nefarious, I know. Clearly it is a plot to overthrow the PRL through journalism.
Cormac Skollvaldr
Founder of Over the Rainbow

"We are all misfits living in a world on fire." - Kelly Clarkson

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