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ONN: Admin Causes Controversy With Definition of Native

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The Osiris News Network
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ONN: Admin Causes Controversy With Definition of Native

Postby The Osiris News Network » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:40 am

Nationstates latest addition could have unforeseen side effects on the politics of gameplay. The brand new poll feature allows delegates and founders to set polls in their region, and decide who in the region has the ability to vote in them. There are five levels of restrictions, as follows:

Residents: Nations in the region.

Natives: Nations that possess more Regional Influence here than in any other region.

WA Members: Members of the World Assembly.

Large Nations: Nations with a population of at least 1 billion.

Influential Nations: Nations possessing Regional Influence equivalent to having spent 1,000 unendorsed days in the region.

The 'Natives' definition has already raised eyebrows within the gameplay community, with players from both sides of R/D opposing the definition.

Long time FRA member and The Rejected Realms delegate Frattastan called the definition "flawed", also saying that the system it was based on - influence - was flawed as well. Vizier of Osiris and invader Cormac Somerset declared that the admins should "have stayed out of the business of defining 'natives'", bringing up the scenario where an invader can become "a 'native' of a region within 24 hours or less".

Former multiple-time The East Pacific delegate Todd McCloud was more neutral on the subject, saying "Well, at least it's nations and not players. But my only thought on that is if someone with high influence happened to move away from a particular region and join another one. Does that mean they are penalized because they must wait for their high influence in one region to go down before they can become a native in another region?"

He then added; "For instance, my influence is 570 in TEP. Based on that number, it would be difficult for me to have my main nation become a "native" elsewhere.".

Europeia President Anumia had this to say: "The concept of a "native" has never been definitively pinned down, and though this change to gameplay brings with it an official definition, I doubt it will change the usual concept of being a native in the minds of most people."

He then added "Under this rule, after all, an invading Delegate will become a "native" quite quickly from the benefit of their endorsements if they stay for but a short while, yet very little of the international community on any part of the spectrum or neutral would likely consider them a native.

This change provides an interesting new perspective and shows the continued dedication to the Influence system by the Admins, but I believe the generally-accepted ideas about what constitutes a "native" are unlikely to change despite the official, in-game definition."

Defenders Hobbes and Johz also commented: "I think that definition, although it works by the games definition, is going to be abused and cause issues. If I have a puppet in a region, and that puppet has the most influence in that region, even if its a puppet, according to the game I am a native of that region on the puppet, although admittingly, if the game only plans on using this definition for polling and nothing more, it can't do much damage." Hobbes commented.

Johz was supportive of the definition, calling it "as good a definition as any".
Whatever your opinion of this definition is, the addition of polls to NS is a welcome one. More analysis and reaction to come, only from the ONN.

The Osiris News Network is no longer the official news service of Osiris. The opinions and articles now published by the network are the work of private Osiris citizens.
Last edited by The Osiris News Network on Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Frattastan II
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Postby Frattastan II » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:56 am

Not too bothered because the definition is there only for the purpose of polls, but admins could've picked a different term.
Will get more annoying if people start using it in announcements, debates and Security Council proposals, treating it as an estabilished and objective definition of "native".
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Tlik
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Postby Tlik » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:09 am

Frattastan II wrote:Not too bothered because the definition is there only for the purpose of polls, but admins could've picked a different term.
Will get more annoying if people start using it in announcements, debates and Security Council proposals, treating it as an estabilished and objective definition of "native".

I think I've got to agree. I mean, I wouldn't immediately complain about it as a definition. It's a good general indicator of some level of nativity, and if I saw a fellow Gameplayer using it I don't think I'd disagree too much. However, I don't feel that nativity is even an official enough concept to be defined, let alone defined without significant discussion or thought involving the Gameplay community.

Essentially, my only wish is that the highly subjective term "native" hadn't been used.

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Mahaj
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Postby Mahaj » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:23 am

It is probably not impossible for admin to change the term 'natives' to something else.
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Evil Wolf
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Postby Evil Wolf » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:46 am

The Osiris News Network wrote: Vizier of Osiris and invader Cormac Somerset declared that the admins should "have stayed out of the business of defining 'natives'", bringing up the scenario where an invader can become "a 'native' of a region within 24 hours or less".


ADMIN had already defined what a "Native" was in the past under the old invasion system, and even that system allowed Invaders to become natives (I'm thinking the 2005 invasion of South Pacific by Groznia where his nation, johns giant palm tree, was elected by the natives via vote and MOD ruled him to be a "native"and therefore not subject to the normal Invasion rules despite Invaders Army and DEN backing him up shortly thereafter). So essential they've been defining Natives for probably as long as R/D has been using the term.

I don't see an issue with this, other than it screws with the Defender's accepted definition, within their own circle, of what a "Native" is. It's just a word and doesn't really have that much meaning behind it.
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Vladisvok Destino
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Postby Vladisvok Destino » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:03 am

Once again ONN misses the real story, the travesty of [Violet] defining large nations >:( this is clearly unfair on those of us who use a different definition and the admins should've thought more carefully before using the term.
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Anarchic Plains
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Postby Anarchic Plains » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:19 am

The real issue here is why is ADMIN not capitalised? >.>
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Owls in a Fridge
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Postby Owls in a Fridge » Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:49 am

It's not even a huge controversy...

It seems more like you're trying to make it a controversy.
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Zeorus
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Postby Zeorus » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:15 am

Owls in a Fridge wrote:It's not even a huge controversy...

It seems more like you're trying to make it a controversy.


Agreed. This doesn't seem to be a statement from ADMIN on the political or military definition of what a "native" is.
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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:39 am

A couple of issues here. While I do recognize the need to do some editing for the sake of brevity and avoiding redundancy, when asked for a quote this was the full quote I provided:

Under this definition an invader can become a "native" of a region within 24 hours or less and someone who has been reasonably ejected or voluntarily left a region could remain a "native" for months. They should have stayed out of the business of defining "natives" when they threw out the griefing rules.

You can see from my full quote that my thoughts on this weren't anti-raider as the out of context quote made them appear to be, since the only part actually quoted in the article is the bit about invaders becoming natives. As the article also points out, though not using the rest of my quote to do so, someone who has been reasonably ejected or who voluntarily leaves a) could remain a native in the previous region for months afterward, and b) can't become a native of a new region, again potentially for months, because of the slow rate of influence decay from the previous region. Given that this definition has been created to enable technical restrictions in the new regional polling system, this definition is severely flawed and has the potential to disenfranchise those who ought to be considered native while potentially giving those who shouldn't be considered native the right to vote.

I should also point out that in using the term "invader" rather than "raider," I did mean this more broadly than its R/D context. Given that this poll system might be used in regional elections or referendums, there will now be more reasons to invade a region than just to take its WA Delegacy and that certainly won't be any less an invasion.

Finally, I should clarify -- though there was nothing wrong with this article, and it was basically well written -- that the Osiris News Network is no longer the official regional news service of Osiris. The Osiris Oracle is now the official regional newspaper of the Osiris Fraternal Order. ONN is now an independent news service run by an individual Osiran and does not necessarily represent the views of the Osiris Fraternal Order, nor are its publications preapproved by any government department.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:53 am

Why does nobody cringe when they hear "official news source?" The other term for this is "state-run media." :ugeek:

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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:57 am

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Why does nobody cringe when they hear "official news source?" The other term for this is "state-run media." :ugeek:

Osiris' official news source operates with a relatively free hand, despite technically being under government jurisdiction. As far as I know there was no higher preapproval of either of The Oracle's two articles, for example, and you can see that the questions asked in those interviews weren't exactly softballs aimed at making the OFO look good. They were real questions.

That said, we do have an official news source -- however freely it operates -- and ONN isn't it anymore.
Last edited by Cormac A Stark on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:07 am

Cormac A Stark wrote:As far as I know there was no higher preapproval of either of The Oracle's two articles, for example, and you can see that the questions asked in those interviews weren't exactly softballs aimed at making the OFO look good. They were real questions.


Xinhua writes tougher pieces. :p Let's not pretend like that interview wasn't a fluff piece. Out of 13 questions asked, 2 were about Venico's coup, and both were softballs written to allow Zeorus to redeem the regime.

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Cormac A Stark
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Postby Cormac A Stark » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:21 am

I just realized there was a disclaimer in a spoiler at the end of the piece making it clear that ONN isn't the official regional news source anymore. My bad. :blush:

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The Dourian Embassy
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Postby The Dourian Embassy » Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:46 pm

It is spoilered, and if you hadn't mentioned it I was going to make it clear in a post of it's own anyway. That said, I'll still say it, the Osiris News Network is not affiliated with the region Osiris in any way. Who runs it now anyway?
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:15 pm

The Rejected Times is proud to be state-run, well The Rejected Times is proud to be state-run -- not sure if the government is always proud that The Rejected Times is state-run. :P I think we pull off a quality rag and its helps to have the public promotion of the newspaper to keep it running.
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Alyekra
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Postby Alyekra » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:22 pm

If this is the definition of native then the term is entirely useless, even for the purpose of regional polling.

I don't see how those qualifications could be helpful for any purpose at all.
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The Osiris News Network
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Postby The Osiris News Network » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:10 pm

The Dourian Embassy wrote:It is spoilered, and if you hadn't mentioned it I was going to make it clear in a post of it's own anyway. That said, I'll still say it, the Osiris News Network is not affiliated with the region Osiris in any way. Who runs it now anyway?

The same person who has always run it.

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Anzouzesl
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Postby Anzouzesl » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:As the article also points out, though not using the rest of my quote to do so, someone who has been reasonably ejected or who voluntarily leaves a) could remain a native in the previous region for months afterward, and b) can't become a native of a new region, again potentially for months, because of the slow rate of influence decay from the previous region. Given that this definition has been created to enable technical restrictions in the new regional polling system, this definition is severely flawed and has the potential to disenfranchise those who ought to be considered native while potentially giving those who shouldn't be considered native the right to vote.


That's a good point. I don't really give a fig about R/D. If a raider is willing and able to kick me, they won't care if I'm a native or not. But it would suck if I couldn't vote as a native in a new region within a reasonable time.

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The Church of Satan
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Postby The Church of Satan » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:32 pm

I can't say I agree with the poll feature using the phrase "native." Mainly because, regardless of what context it's being used in, founders, delegates and regional governments will always determine what constitutes the proper definition of "native."
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[violet]
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Postby [violet] » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:08 pm

Would people like to suggest an alternative term?

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Milograd
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Postby Milograd » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:09 pm

[violet] wrote:Would people like to suggest an alternative term?

Influential Residents/Nations.
Last edited by Milograd on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Black Hat Guy
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Postby The Black Hat Guy » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:15 pm

Milograd wrote:
[violet] wrote:Would people like to suggest an alternative term?

Influential Residents/Nations.


That sort of gives the wrong impression, given the game's use of the word "influence". It would seem to imply that it would limit the poll to nations with high influence, which is not the case.

Citizens? Locals?
Last edited by The Black Hat Guy on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Unibot III
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Postby Unibot III » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:32 pm

Milograd wrote:
[violet] wrote:Would people like to suggest an alternative term?

Influential Residents/Nations.


Something like that. "Powerbrokers"? It should avoid suggesting an entitlement to said region -- those are philosophical questions that players have to decide for themselves.
Last edited by Unibot III on Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Crazy girl
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Postby Crazy girl » Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:49 pm

I think you guys are making this bigger than it is. So the term native is used. We haven't had to define natives ever since influence came into play, and we have used the same words for different definitions. Me thinks the news outlet wants to make it an issue.....just like the real media :lol:

Just chillax, sit back and enjoy the new feature.

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