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Personal Interest: Interviewing Lesser Knowns

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Lun Noir
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 165
Founded: Aug 19, 2004
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Lun Noir » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:13 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:Will the writer of the above piece be coming around to explain their views or was this just hit and run?

Are you referring to Personal Interest or me?

If me, all I have to say was said. It was just to clarify the factual events.

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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:17 pm

Lun Noir wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Will the writer of the above piece be coming around to explain their views or was this just hit and run?

Are you referring to Personal Interest or me?

If me, all I have to say was said. It was just to clarify the factual events.

I was referring to Personal Interest. My comments towards Afforess can be applied to your own comments without modification.
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Shadow Afforess
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Founded: Nov 06, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Shadow Afforess » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:22 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Shadow Afforess wrote:I have interpreted the rules literally many times in the past without undue concern.

I'll take that as a no then and conclude that your judgment was very faulty, which is unfortunate. I thought the rules regarding the matter implicated that such actions should not be done. The rules cannot possibly seek to outline everything that will get you into trouble after all.

Where I am from, one can not be prosecuted for implications. Legal codes and rules exist for a reason.
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Mad Jack
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Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:35 pm

And NS is not the real world.
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Shadow Afforess
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Founded: Nov 06, 2013
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Postby Shadow Afforess » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:03 pm

Mad Jack wrote:And NS is not the real world.

What tipped you off?
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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Mad Jack
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Founded: Nov 01, 2011
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Postby Mad Jack » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:06 pm

A great many things.

You seem to be labouring under the impression the two are one and the same.
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Esternial
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Posts: 53855
Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:10 pm

Shadow Afforess wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:That's posting past ban.

As I said, the rules nowhere mentioned that, so they should be clarified.

It's a pretty specific case. I don't think anyone could predict this and make a "what happens if you give your puppet to someone and gets banned on your main account?" clause in the rulings somewhere.

However, in light of this Moderator decision, I do agree an expansion of the rules is required in case people make the same mistake you did.

I consider the rules to be a barebones basis, which requires unique cases to expand on these rules and allow harsher/softer treatment for specific cases where it's justified. The rules need to be fine-tuned, and this method introduces precedent.

I do find it hard to believe that you couldn't guess that, since both your main nation and your puppet operated from the same IP address, giving your puppet to someone else could possibly spell trouble in the foreseeable future.

It's unfortunate, and a lesson learnt for all of us.
Last edited by Esternial on Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:23 pm

If they start trying to allow for case-by-case, we really will have rampant mod bias.
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Personal Interest
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Posts: 16
Founded: Nov 03, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Personal Interest » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:01 pm

Scolopendra wrote:We do not consider third-party appeals.

~Scolo der Mod

Never was asking for it.
Ambroscus Koth wrote:
Personal Interest wrote:I cannot sit idly by as injustice is served to someone who has done little to no wrong and done much good to the NationStates community.


Unibot, is that you? :rofl:

I really did lol at this :lol:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Personal Interest wrote:It is Personal Interest's belief that the nation of Afforess is innocent of the charges brought against him, and his previous punishments harsher than if performed by a different nation.
That's demonstrably incorrect. Posting past ban results in the deletion of both the posting nation and the banned nation. It says as much in the rules.

What Afforess has been banned from the forum previously has been much milder than many many other things that have been spewed on the Gameplay forum.
Lun Noir wrote:
Sedgistan wrote:"I wasn't in control of my nation when X happened" is probably the most common excuse we hear for rules violations. Nonetheless, we do look into it when people make that claim, as we did in this case. The claim that Afforess handed his nation over didn't match the evidence. When high-profile players have a nation deleted, it's often claimed that they were singled out for special treatment. That is not the case - we enforced the same rules that apply to every other player, and acted the same way we would have done with any other player who committed the offences.

A minor correction, your investigation may not have been wholy accurate, and I'd rather just get all the facts out so this speculation can stop flying around. Afforess is not lying when he said that he forfeited erudite_observer.

Afforess did give erudite_observer to me, and had me change the password without telling him what it was. It was intended to be a permanent transfer of the nation. To cement his decision to step out of Gameplay, he then requested that I leave a post about the closure of the newspaper, which I did. The final login to NS and the NS Forums originated from a computer in my control, not Afforess'.

When I saw the two nations get deleted, I felt terrible, and still do. I did not realize this would be the outcome.

I am not stating this in any attempt to sway the decision of the mods, just stating for the record what actually happened.

Thank you for the clarification Lun Noir.
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Will the writer of the above piece be coming around to explain their views or was this just hit and run?

:eyebrow: I never have, nor never will hit and run on an article.

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Mallorea and Riva
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 9796
Founded: Sep 29, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Mallorea and Riva » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:05 pm

Personal Interest wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote: That's demonstrably incorrect. Posting past ban results in the deletion of both the posting nation and the banned nation. It says as much in the rules.

What Afforess has been banned from the forum previously has been much milder than many many other things that have been spewed on the Gameplay forum.

Then look at the context of those comments and perhaps you will understand.
Personal Interest wrote:
Mallorea and Riva wrote:Will the writer of the above piece be coming around to explain their views or was this just hit and run?

:eyebrow: I never have, nor never will hit and run on an article.

Then perhaps you will provide examples of extreme bias against Capitalist Paradise and Afforess? Links to incidents? Theories as to why Afforess has been singled out?
Last edited by Mallorea and Riva on Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ideological Bulwark #253
Retired Major of The Black Hawks
Retired Charter Nation: Political Affairs in Antarctic Oasis
Retired Colonel of DEN Central Command, now defunct
Former Delegate of The South Pacific, winner of TSP's "Best Dali" Award
Retired Secretary of Defense of Stargate
Terror of The Joint Systems Alliance
Mall Isaraider, son of Tram and Spartz, Brother of Tal and apparently Sev the treacherous bastard.
Frattastan quote of the month: I only steal soaps and shampoos from the friend who lets me stay on their couch when I have to be in some other city.
GR quote of the month: Yes mall is right

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Esternial
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 53855
Founded: May 09, 2009
Democratic Socialists

Postby Esternial » Fri Nov 08, 2013 2:37 pm

Mallorea and Riva wrote:
Personal Interest wrote:
What Afforess has been banned from the forum previously has been much milder than many many other things that have been spewed on the Gameplay forum.

Then look at the context of those comments and perhaps you will understand.
Personal Interest wrote:
:eyebrow: I never have, nor never will hit and run on an article.

Then perhaps you will provide examples of extreme bias against Capitalist Paradise and Afforess? Links to incidents? Theories as to why Afforess has been singled out?

I knew journalistic objectivity was dead.

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Reploid Productions
Forum Admin
 
Posts: 29115
Founded: Antiquity
Democratic Socialists

Postby Reploid Productions » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:23 pm

First, this thread is going firmly off the rails. This is not the appropriate place to argue about a moderation decision. Probably best to lock this one down. If Afforess or Lun Noir wishes to restart their GP newspaper/interview service thread, they're welcome to do so.

Second, the evidence available to the moderators does not support the claim that the nation Erudite Observer had changed hands prior to Afforess' ban or the post-past-ban that led to the deletions of both. If he wishes for additional followup, I'm fairly sure he knows where to file that request.

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