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Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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The Dourian Embassy
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1547
Founded: Nov 15, 2007
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dourian Embassy » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:03 pm

First of all Asta, refuting my statements by going "of course I wasn't serious when I said that" is something you wanna run by Biyah first. It's not a very strong argument.

Second, Free Osiris was kicked AFTER posting this statement, not before. The OP isn't posting about his being banned and kicked, he was kicked for posting at all.
Treize Dreizehn, President of Douria.

cause ain't no such things as halfway crooks

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Mad Jack
Diplomat
 
Posts: 978
Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:10 pm

Punk Reloaded wrote:
http://udl.taijitu.org/images/rflags/osiris/osiris__950354.jpg


Bold & coloring mine.

This might be a dumb question but...Osirans, has your flag's gif always been maintained on a UDL website? :eyebrow:

Technically not our flag. The last flag of the Kemetic Republic is the one I am flying right now. We could probably call it the flag of the transitional government too, but who cares? :P
Where is Someone Special?
<@Unibot> I don't care about defender unity.

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Alyekra
Minister
 
Posts: 2828
Founded: May 03, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Alyekra » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:20 pm

Free Osiris Army wrote:THE EMPRESS BANS AND SUPPRESSES DISSENT

Just moments ago, The Empress banned and ejected the Free Osiris Army from Osiris.



The Empress lied to us when she said, “Osiris will not be a dictatorship” and that she “far prefer[s] discussion, debate, and consensus over simply bossing people around”. The Empress only wishes to discuss with those who agree with her rule.

She has suppressed our words from The Regional Message Board because they are words she does not want you to see. The truth, she feels, is better hidden.

Also, thank you to Gooshinuagwa for removing your endorsement from The Empress and flying the revolutionary flag of Osiris.

The people of Osiris know who to trust and it is not The Empress.


That's because you're not discussing or debating, you're just throwing around accusations.
(FOR LEGAL REASONS, THAT'S A JOKE)

65 dkp

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Wintermoot
Envoy
 
Posts: 204
Founded: May 09, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Wintermoot » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:25 pm

This idea that Spiritus has suddenly moved to support anything is a patent falsehood.

Spiritus has been involved in a long-term operation since the latter stages of the Dourian coup to provide stability and support the legitimate government in Osiris in the event of future coups. This was done with the consent of the previous Pharaoh, Cormac Stark, and the arrangement has not been revoked by Detective Figs, who now heads the legitimate government of Osiris. The actions of Detective Figs, as far as I have been able to tell, have the support of both the government and Citizens of the region. The vast majority of the 'opposition' appears to originate from outside the region, perhaps from people that wish to push their own agenda on the region.

However, Spiritus is merely continuing what it's been doing for the past two months: supporting the legitimate Osiran government.
Inric Nordrim Kestar
Monarch of Wintreath

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Detective Figs
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 53
Founded: Aug 02, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Detective Figs » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:27 pm

The Dourian Embassy wrote:First of all Asta, refuting my statements by going "of course I wasn't serious when I said that" is something you wanna run by Biyah first. It's not a very strong argument.


Good thing that's not what I said - I suggested you check to see if I was, because I'm honestly not sure what of my numerous statements you're referencing. The only indication you give is something about "last night", which is weird, because I was mostly offline doing homework last night.

Anybody who knows me at all - and you've spent enough time around me on IRC to qualify - knows that I say a great many things which, if taken absolutely seriously, should see me brought up on charges ranging from conspiracy, to treason, to being a gorram goof. Here's a good example of that in practice.

But I mean, you can be scared of my tyrannical side. That's cool too. :P

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Joe Washington
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 63
Founded: Sep 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Joe Washington » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:31 pm

Generally revolutions should start with strongly-worded letters and work your way up to armed resistance if that doesn't work.

Trust me, I know these things.
Last edited by Joe Washington on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇
But we were young; we lived to see God break their bitter charms.
God and the good Republic come riding back in arms!

▇▇▇▇▇▇
...Anarcho-capitalist...
Christian Fundamental
One people, under God.
▇▇▇▇▇▇
God made you special
And He loves you very much!
Such is my manifesto.
▇▇▇▇▇▇
Do you want to know where spiritual anarchists hide themselves?
You will find them on the thrones of worldly tyrannies!
▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇
This is not a parody.

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The Blaatschapen
Technical Moderator
 
Posts: 62658
Founded: Antiquity
Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:33 pm

Detective Figs wrote:
The Dourian Embassy wrote:First of all Asta, refuting my statements by going "of course I wasn't serious when I said that" is something you wanna run by Biyah first. It's not a very strong argument.


Good thing that's not what I said - I suggested you check to see if I was, because I'm honestly not sure what of my numerous statements you're referencing. The only indication you give is something about "last night", which is weird, because I was mostly offline doing homework last night.

Anybody who knows me at all - and you've spent enough time around me on IRC to qualify - knows that I say a great many things which, if taken absolutely seriously, should see me brought up on charges ranging from conspiracy, to treason, to being a gorram goof. Here's a good example of that in practice.

But I mean, you can be scared of my tyrannical side. That's cool too. :P


Wait, being a gorram goof is chargeable? :o

Well, I guess I have to leave the game now :p
1. The Last Tech Modling
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8. Size matters. Bigger is forbidden and won't give the mods pleasure.

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Tim-Opolis
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6182
Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:38 pm

Well, this is a cute thread.
2/10 would not read again.

I expected some nice sensationalist propaganda, blaming the Miniluvers.
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Author of SC#74, SC #203, SC #222, and SC #238 | Co-Author of SC#191
Founder of Spiritus | Three-Time Delegate of Osiris | Pharaoh of the Islamic Republics of Iran | Hero of Greece
<Koth - 06/30/2020> I mean as far as GPers go, Tim is one of the most iconic

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Mad Jack
Diplomat
 
Posts: 978
Founded: Nov 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Mad Jack » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:38 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:Wait, being a gorram goof is chargeable? :o

Well, I guess I have to leave the game now :p

Nah just don't join TNP.
Where is Someone Special?
<@Unibot> I don't care about defender unity.

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Charax
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1006
Founded: Apr 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Charax » Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:48 pm

Free Osiris Army wrote: is requiring The Empress to turn to foreign endorsements to support her regime change, instead of the actual Osiran people. Endorsements have been trickling into Osiris from Spiritus to support this authoritarian regime. Some examples include:

(Image)

The SDF are in Osiris to build influence in the event of a coup.

And no, the irony is not lost on me that they're still endorsing Figs. Though whether it's a coup per se is up for interpretation anyway.
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Karpathos
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Karpathos » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:50 pm

Super convenient, that SDF is still endorsing Figs. :eyebrow:
Honor Guard to Black adder's cunning plan
The Emmanuel Goldstein of Osiris
Veteran of The Great Patriotic War & the ADN proxy wars
Last Native of Greece
Foremer RLA Red Guard
Former head if he USSR KGB
Forner member of SECO
Froner Lt. in The DEN
[spoiler]So long as there is imperialism in the world, a permanent peace is impossible.
[/spoiler]
Aperi is Aperi.

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Charax
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1006
Founded: Apr 20, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Charax » Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:54 pm

Karpathos wrote:Super convenient, that SDF is still endorsing Figs. :eyebrow:

Don't raise your eyebrow at me, I'm stationary. >:(
Minister of WA Affairs, Balder
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Todd McCloud
Senator
 
Posts: 4088
Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:02 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:Wait, being a gorram goof is chargeable? :o

This is off-topic, but your Jane nod from Firefly has earned you massive points.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Todd McCloud
Senator
 
Posts: 4088
Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:14 pm

Free Osiris Army wrote:"Detective Figs" has declared herself Empress of Osiris and claimed sole Legislative, Executive and Judicial control over the region. We must rise to this insult and free Osiris from these imperialists. Detective Figs as Interim Pharaoh was invested with responsibilities which she ignored.

When a government breaks, someone needs to step up and see if it can be re-worked. Usually it's the delegate of a broken government that takes control of this.

I should remind people, such a task occurred in TEP four years ago, when our own A Slanted Black Stripe did the hard stuff and oversaw pretty much the region give its government a general re-start. He laid out groundwork, worked with the region-goers, and basically let them do their thing. This in Osiris is a different situation than it was in TEP, though - in TEP we basically had time to figure out a government (about a month's time) while ASBS took care of the region on the gameplay-side. So, we had conventions, established the Concordat out of the prior document, and basically re-started the government as a whole.

Figs seems to be doing that now, but again, with different circumstances. She's set to work by laying out some groundwork and getting a government going again in Osiris. After going through coup after coup, Osiris kind of doesn't have the time or the resources to have a giant convention, however. They have to figure stuff out now, especially because the outer community seems to be breathing down their necks (read: this thread among others in gameplay).

So, give them a shot. Let's see what they can do here. All in all, no regional government was built in a day. It takes time to re-set the government, especially when the region is abandoning their old laws. I'm inclined to be patient here, rather than go all balls to the wall and run unendorsment campaigns, for instance (which have been carried out by foreign groups, mind you).

Let Osiris figure out what Osiris wants to do. People let TEP figure out what TEP wanted to do after their big coup, and now they're a leading region in the NS world. Let's see what these Osirians are made out of.
Last edited by Todd McCloud on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Blue Booted Bobbies
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Mar 30, 2007
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Blue Booted Bobbies » Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:59 pm

Although we are bound by puppet treaty from ever directly engaging in WA and delegate affairs you have the full support of those who still pledge their loyalty to the memory of Queen Victoria!

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Ikand
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 50
Founded: Jan 11, 2013
Democratic Socialists

Postby Ikand » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:27 pm

why is the unendorsement campaign using such an unattractive flag? o_O

the only coup that would make sense right now at least, would be one with the goal to rename the region "land of ferrets" and toss a ferret onto the flag.

:|
Last edited by Ikand on Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[align=center]Hail Osiris! Hail the chariots of the Legion!
Ex-Pharaoh of the Osiris Fraternal Order/align]

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Joe Washington
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 63
Founded: Sep 15, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Joe Washington » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:29 pm

Oh please. Come back when she's imposed taxation without representation, or some other form of real oppression. At the moment all the new regime has done is eject a single trouble-maker who might not even be a Osirian citizen.
▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇
But we were young; we lived to see God break their bitter charms.
God and the good Republic come riding back in arms!

▇▇▇▇▇▇
...Anarcho-capitalist...
Christian Fundamental
One people, under God.
▇▇▇▇▇▇
God made you special
And He loves you very much!
Such is my manifesto.
▇▇▇▇▇▇
Do you want to know where spiritual anarchists hide themselves?
You will find them on the thrones of worldly tyrannies!
▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇▇
This is not a parody.

User avatar
Todd McCloud
Senator
 
Posts: 4088
Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:29 pm

Ikand wrote:why is the unendorsement campaign using such an unattractive flag? o_O

the only coup that would make sense right now at least, would be one with the goal to rename the region "land of ferrets" and toss a ferret onto the flag.

:|

Ferrets are cool.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Cormac A Stark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1034
Founded: Jul 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac A Stark » Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:31 am

Free Osiris Army wrote:Our democracy has fallen. "Detective Figs" has declared herself Empress of Osiris and claimed sole Legislative, Executive and Judicial control over the region. We must rise to this insult and free Osiris from these imperialists. Detective Figs as Interim Pharaoh was invested with responsibilities which she ignored.

Osiris has been betrayed and it is time it overthrow its betrayer.

Asta (Detective Figs) has assumed executive, legislative, and judicial authority over the region with the support of virtually the entire government -- executive, legislative, and judicial -- and with the backing of the vast majority of Osirans active on our forum as well. Even among those who are not active on the forum, there have been no major expressions of dissent from longtime residents of Osiris, and agitators have made it clear through their use of obvious puppets that they are serving external forces who believe it is in their interests to sow discord and instability in Osiris.

Free Osiris Army wrote:This is requiring The Empress to turn to foreign endorsements to support her regime change, instead of the actual Osiran people. Endorsements have been trickling into Osiris from Spiritus to support this authoritarian regime.

As has already been explained, the Spiritus Defense Force has been deployed in Osiris on a long-term operation since before the Dourian coup ended to build regional influence so that they will have nations ready to assist in liberating the region if our legitimate government is overthrown. That they are still endorsing Asta is a strong indicator that, contrary to your pitiful propaganda efforts, this is not a coup. Spiritus is a defender region with prohibitions against invading or supporting the invasion of founderless regions written into its constitution. The Spiritus Defense Force has never invaded nor supported the invasion of a non-Warzone region, and unlike others that claim to be so dedicated to the sovereignty of Feeders and Sinkers, Spiritus has never once found itself supporting a rogue or invader Delegate in a Feeder or Sinker. Instead, it has consistently and tirelessly opposed such rogues in The South Pacific in April and Osiris in June-July.

The new government of Osiris stands on the reputation of Astarial, who spent nearly a decade in this game as a defender with the Alliance Defense Network, The United Defenders League, the Founderless Regions Alliance, and Sovereign Confederation. Her reputation is that of a reformer who seeks more democracy, more inclusiveness, and more participation by all Osirans -- not less. Far from undermining the claims of this new government to legitimacy, the continued deployment of the Spiritus Defense Force bolsters such claims. Spiritus has an unimpeachable record of defending the sovereignty of founderless regions throughout NationStates, especially Feeders and Sinkers.

Meanwhile, you have a few propagandists behind puppets. We're not afraid to show our faces, sign our names, and fly our flags; why are you, and more importantly, who are you?

Free Osiris Army wrote:THE PROPOSED NEW GOVERNMENT IS MERELY AN ILLUSION

The Empress claims to come to Osiris with good intentions and radical democratic ideas, but has instead proposed a hollowed out, colonial structure that will act as an illusion for her reign of power. No one with the actual, genuine intent of bringing greater democratic reform to Osiris would begin this initiative by declaring themselves the sole legislative, executive and judicial authority of the region.

No one, that is, except Sichuan Pepper of TITO, who served as the sole authority governing Osiris while the region elected its first native Delegate. No one except Pharaoh Zaolat, who served as the sole authority governing Osiris while the region drafted its first constitution, the Book of the Dead. No one except Unibot of The UDL, who served as Balder's sole governing authority while Balder elected its first native Delegate. No one except the many Delegates of The West Pacific who claim absolute in-game authority over the region but who nevertheless have often advanced regional democracy. No one except A Slanted Black Stripe, recently commended by the WA Security Council, in The East Pacific following The Empire coup in 2008, as Todd mentioned. I could go on, but I wouldn't want to bore you.

The point is that it is sometimes necessary when Feeders and Sinkers find themselves in an unstable and volatile situation for them to be moved forward by a strong guiding hand. We have seen precedent for this many times, and that is what we are seeing here in Osiris. We are seeing greater authority for the Delegate now so that we can see a more stable, secure, active, and inclusive Osiris later -- and once again, this is the path that has been chosen by the vast majority of native Osirans.

Free Osiris Army wrote:Her proposals include:

  • Appointing an imperialist as "High Inquisitor" with free reign over Osiris's judiciary.

To dismiss r3n as merely "an imperialist" boggles the mind. r3n was the most active justice on the Great Kenbet, the previous judiciary of Osiris. He has a strong record within the Osiran legal system, within the legal system of Europeia which has one of the strongest republican systems in NationStates, and in The New Inquisition which has a solid, fair, and functional judiciary that finds few parallels elsewhere in NationStates. There is no one more qualified than this native Osiran with roots in our own judicial system as well as two of the best judicial systems in NationStates to spearhead the reform of our judiciary.

Free Osiris Army wrote:
  • A legislative body that "will stand empty for the moment"

The legislative body stands empty only until Osirans begin to qualify for membership in that body. Membership in the Deshret, our new democratic assembly, will be open to any Osiran who volunteers to participate in government by selecting any activity from a list that includes activities ranging from Communications to World Assembly Affairs and everything in between, or by suggesting an activity themselves that they will oversee. This not only ensures that membership in the Deshret is open to as many Osirans as are willing to actively participate in their government, it also opens the executive government to a level of participation that is unprecedented in Osiris and in most other Feeders and Sinkers as well.

Osirans are already volunteering for the activities on this list and we'll see the membership roster of the Deshret filling up very soon.

Free Osiris Army wrote:
  • A legislative body that will not be open for all Osirians.

Wrong. The Deshret will in fact be open to all Osirans provided that they are active in government. While our membership requirements are unique, we have opted to emphasize participation in any aspect of government as the criterion for membership in the Deshret rather than more exclusive requirements employed by other regions such as a WA nation in the region or service in the regional military. This ensures that any Osiran can be involved in the Deshret provided that he or she is also involved in another freely chosen area of government. While this may exclude a tiny minority of Osirans who don't wish to be involved in their government at all, which is unfortunate, it's hardly too much to ask for some demonstration of commitment to the region rather than vesting just anyone with the power to make regional law.

Besides, the Deshret is far more open and inclusive than the Sepatarchy, our previous elected legislature which had a fixed number of representative legislators. That is the system to which Osiris would be returning if the Kemetic Republic were restored today.

Free Osiris Army wrote:
  • Reducing the barriers between the executive and legislative branches to drive "internal activity".

You make that sound so nefarious, which I suppose it could be when taken out of context. This is a reference to the Deshret's new membership requirements, which as mentioned will require participation in any aspect of the executive government as the criterion for membership in the Deshret. It does not mean that the executive and legislative branches of government will be permanently merged. Asta has made clear that she is only supervising the Deshret initially, until a Speaker can be elected by the Deshret, at which time it will become an autonomous branch of government.

As I have stated previously in this post and elsewhere, the idea that Asta is going to govern Osiris as an autocrat with no respect for separation of powers is absurd to any Osiran or to anyone at all familiar with recent Osiran history. Asta has been the leading reformer in favor of greater separation of powers, greater democracy, and greater citizen participation and empowerment. That is her agenda, that is the agenda she tirelessly pursued as a legislator in Osiris previously, and that is the agenda she has begun to enact as Empress.

We have Asta's record to look at and see her agenda. We don't even have your identity. So, again, who are you and what is your agenda?
Last edited by Cormac A Stark on Wed Sep 18, 2013 5:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

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