NationStates News Express: News on the Run

[Solorni]

I can use actual arguments, but people like you and Unibot aren't deserving of them. I enjoy how you call me a socialite player, when the NPO is the guiltiest party of petty social politics (one only has to look at their whole gossip page on NES). The only party embarrassed by the Lazarus/Balder split was Lazarus. It's arguments had no weight and were poor beyond belief. Sometimes, it's beneath you. It's no wonder NPO members such as yourself are consigned to the regions in NS with the lowest activity.

I do love the personal attacks on my person, given how you call me a "viper". Let's not try to be too obvious with the hypocrisy.

I am amused that your response says that we aren't deserving of your arguments: it's evident that you're just trying to avoid arguing because it's an obvious weakness for you. Now, as for Lazarus, you can say what you will about the split, but I don't think you'd have hauled it off to a secret part of the forum and locked the thread if you were winning the debate.

It's also telling that you call Lazarus a region with the lowest activity. Lazarus is extremely active, as evidenced by the fact that we've performed nearly fifty missions in the past month and a half (how's Balder's military doing, sweety?), have averaged over a hundred posts per day since November, and have made significant progress in every aspect of the region, but I'm not one to expect you to use facts in your rhetoric.

Well, ignoring the rude personal attacks once again.

Lazarus when the NPO took it over was the least active region. They don't have the same quality as more developed parts of Nation States. Furthermore, Balder's military has been doing well, but it's been in Osiris supporting Venico since the civil war. I don't recall calling you a sexist.

[Beta Test]

The bitterness is remarkable.

[Solorni]

Aye. Pretty unfortunate.

[Cerlon]

I am amused that your response says that we aren't deserving of your arguments: it's evident that you're just trying to avoid arguing because it's an obvious weakness for you. Now, as for Lazarus, you can say what you will about the split, but I don't think you'd have hauled it off to a secret part of the forum and locked the thread if you were winning the debate.

It's also telling that you call Lazarus a region with the lowest activity. Lazarus is extremely active, as evidenced by the fact that we've performed nearly fifty missions in the past month and a half (how's Balder's military doing, sweety?), have averaged over a hundred posts per day since November, and have made significant progress in every aspect of the region, but I'm not one to expect you to use facts in your rhetoric.

Well, ignoring the rude personal attacks once again.

Lazarus when the NPO took it over was the least active region. They don't have the same quality as more developed parts of Nation States. Furthermore, Balder's military has been doing well, but it's been in Osiris supporting Venico since the civil war. I don't recall calling you a sexist.

There is nothing personal about my statement. I am simply commenting on your argumentative capabilities within NationStates, and that does not reflect on your personality or morality. Saying that civilly-delivered criticisms are "rude personal attacks" is an example of the very socialite rhetoric you exercise -- by appealing to RL morality, even though those appeals are baseless, you hope to paint me as a player who has no regard for the lines between the game and the players behind them. I hold that in contempt. It's poor form and I get bothered when players do it.

Regarding missions, we do have the same quality, in fact, if not superior quality than most contemporary groups; we participate in update liberations (i.e. Asia, Italy), can assemble a large piling force as needed (i.e. Christmas, Union of Socialist Confederate Republics) and are one of the most active militaries in the game. Balder, on the other hand, only musters what few people it has when it has an easy support mission to perform (I see two Baldran flags in Osiris?), and you'll find it difficult to convince people that such inactivity and irrelevance bests the LLA.

Finally, in the thread, we had a fifteen post back-and-forth where I noted your logical fallacies and deflections, and to close it in your final post you randomly noted that I made a "wildly inappropriate sexual remark" to you. The post in question was more so teasing Unibot, but upon realizing that it might've offended you given your involvement in it, I expressed my sincere apologies because I don't intend to offend players outside of the game, and because I could see how it might make you feel uncomfortable. However, you bringing it up without solicitation in such a thread clearly constituted an attempt to bring RL insults about my morality into a debate for the sake of discrediting the game-related statements that I presented. That action embodies the very socialite behavior that undermines the health of this game.

[Solorni]

Well, ignoring the rude personal attacks once again.

Lazarus when the NPO took it over was the least active region. They don't have the same quality as more developed parts of Nation States. Furthermore, Balder's military has been doing well, but it's been in Osiris supporting Venico since the civil war. I don't recall calling you a sexist.

There is nothing personal about my statement. I am simply commenting on your argumentative capabilities, and that does not reflect on your personality or morality. Saying that civilly-delivered criticisms are "rude personal attacks" is an example of the very socialite rhetoric you exercise -- by appealing to RL morality, even though those appeals are baseless, you hope to paint me as a player who has no regard for the lines between the game and the players behind them. I hold that in contempt. It's poor form and I get bothered when players do it.

Regarding missions, we do have the same quality, in fact, if not superior; we participate in update liberations (i.e. Asia, Italy), can assemble a large piling force as needed (i.e. Christmas, Union of Socialist Confederate Republics) and are one of the most active militaries in the game. Balder, on the other hand, only musters what few people it has when it has an easy support mission to perform (I see two Baldran flags in Osiris?), and you'll find it difficult to convince people that such inactivity and irrelevance bests the LLA.

Finally, in the thread, we had a fifteen post back-and-forth where I noted your logical fallacies and deflections, and to close it in your final post you randomly noted that I made a "wildly inappropriate sexual remark" to you. The post in question was more so teasing unibot, but upon realizing that it might've offended you given your involvement in it, I expressed my apologies because I don't intend to offend players outside of the game. However, you bringing it up without solicitation in such a thread clearly constituted an attempt to bring RL insults about my morality into a debate for the sake of discrediting the game-related statements that I presented.

If you feel you won your argument so handily in Balder, why bring it up again? Why do you even care? If it makes you feel better, I'll even say you won

But the truth is that we had made our points, Lazarus was being unreasonable and was simply being political (badly at that). It is difficult to argue when one side is being ridiculous. Do you argue down to their level? It's difficult to argue when you don't agree with their claims about the facts. Balder has more than 2 troops in Osiris, flags to not simply equate to troops. If the LLA is one of the most active forces in the game, I wouldn't know. Bad PR perhaps?

I can't argue about things I don't feel are worth arguing over. For example, arguing about an argument we had a while back. Next, will you argue about our argument about an argument we had a while back. I just don't feel motivated to argue about it. My first comment here was supposed to be funny by being satire about how difficult defenders say they have it.

You can bring up personal points as an attempt to discredit me and then call them legitimate "civilly delivered criticism". If you can call your personal attacks civilly delivered criticism I can say the same about your comments. Come back when you have something new to argue about Milo.

[Cerlon]

If you feel you won your argument so handily in Balder, why bring it up again? Why do you even care? If it makes you feel better, I'll even say you won

But the truth is that we had made our points, Lazarus was being unreasonable and was simply being political (badly at that). It is difficult to argue when one side is being ridiculous. Do you argue down to their level? It's difficult to argue when you don't agree with their claims about the facts. Balder has more than 2 troops in Osiris, flags to not simply equate to troops. If the LLA is one of the most active forces in the game, I wouldn't know. Bad PR perhaps?

I can't argue about things I don't feel are worth arguing over. For example, arguing about an argument we had a while back. Next, will you argue about our argument about an argument we had a while back. I just don't feel motivated to argue about it. My first comment here was supposed to be funny by being satire about how difficult defenders say they have it.

You can bring up personal points as an attempt to discredit me and then call them legitimate "civilly delivered criticism". If you can call your personal attacks civilly delivered criticism I can say the same about your comments. Come back when you have something new to argue about Milo.

I bring it up again because it's, well, evidence. Citing past incidents, facts, and so on is a fundamental component of a successful argument. That thread was a very telling demonstration of your political and argumentative tactics as they pertain to the conversation and as such it was relevant to bring them back up in echoing the above made statements.

Your post entirely deflects from addressing the contents of my post, but nonetheless your withdrawal is warmly received.

EDIT in Response to Army PR: Lazarus doesn't tend to brag about our missions publicly, as doing so for the sake of impressing our enemies is not in our interests, but if you're keen to enlighten yourself about the LLA's activities you may find announcements regarding some of our recent missions here.

[Solorni]

Sure

It's not evidence, because you lost there. I really love the arrogance and the putting me down though.

[Cerlon]

And now we've gone full circle.

[NS NEWS EXPRESS]

HILEVILLE RESIGNS AS TSP MOFA; CITES "UNHEALTHY INFIGHTING" AS CAUSE
January 04, 2014.

THE SOUTH PACIFIC, DOWNTOWN CENTRAL --- Hileville, in a startling move today, resigned as Minister of Foreign Affairs in The South Pacific. The South Pacific is, of course, busy as the host region of the wildly successful NS World Fair, which has some all the more shocked of the timing of his resignation -- only one day into the NS World Fair.

Hileville spoke of a constant "strife on every little issue" and "infighting" which he says began as a trend in The South Pacific for months before finally spreading to the Cabinet, where opinion on matters were incredibly divided. Hileville says he no longer felt he was having fun serving in Cabinet while faced with such disagreement on issues. This however has been no easy picnic of a term for Escade and her new government, which has been witness to false accusations against Escade's identity and the rise of the Osiris Fraternal Order, while Belschaft's former government faced diplomatic issues with Lazarus and Osiris that had divided the region once more.

"We are approaching a state which can easily be compared to that of Osiris," says Hileville, who did not mince words in his announcement.

Hileville also officially resigned from the Committee for State Security, which means he no longer has obligations to maintain his WA Nation in The South Pacific with a certain endorsement threshold. Elections for a new Minister of Foreign Affairs will begin soon. This will make for three cabinet ministers replaced since the last elections -- with QuietDad resigning as Chief Justice and Glen-Rhodes resigning as Chairman of the Assembly over his public defiance of the Cabinet's foreign policy. Rebel-topia eventually replaced Glen-Rhodes as Chairman and so far it is a one-man race for Belschaft as Chief Justice.

- NSNE.

[McMasterdonia]

I know how it feels being a new Delegate and having false accusations thrown at you - it is difficult, especially when everyone has their eyes on you and some people want to see you fail. I wish Escade the best and if there is anything I can do to help then let me know.

I honestly find it hard to believe that TSP is as bad as Osiris used to be

[Glen-Rhodes]

Given that we still have a very successful democracy based upon the rule of law, and our community at large has relatively little hostility, I can't agree with Hileville in his remark that TSP is like (or becoming like) Osiris. I don't know what's gone on in the Cabinet since I resigned a little more than 3 weeks ago, but I'd be surprised if it was more than the usual heated disagreements. I think this may be more about Hileville just not finding TSP governance personally rewarding anymore.

I'm sure Hileville will find his new niche in NationStates. Like Southern Bellz said in his resignation thread, he could get involved in the New Southern Army, which needs experienced players. Otherwise he will certainly find some enjoyable activity beyond TSP politics. Best of luck.

[Unibot III]

I know how it feels being a new Delegate and having false accusations thrown at you - it is difficult, especially when everyone has their eyes on you and some people want to see you fail. I wish Escade the best and if there is anything I can do to help then let me know.

I honestly find it hard to believe that TSP is as bad as Osiris used to be

Hell, I've had more people resign under me than probably most people in NS. Two years of being UDL's leader -- I saw a lot of angry "this will be the end of the UDL!" messages. People want you to be more moderate, people want you to be more radical (yes, believe it or not I was accused of being too moderate), people want you to stop compromising, people want you to compromise.. at some point, you say fuck it and lead the ship in the fairest manner you think can be done.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Personally I imagine Hile is just having a bad day, and will facepalm in the morning. I know there have been plenty of days when I've felt like throwing it all in, or (when Delegate) couping.

Regrettably, in TSP resignations take immediate effect and as such Hile won't be able to rescind it in the morning. We have however had people run for positions they've just resigned in the past.

[Milograd]

Didn't Antariel resign, run, and then forget to get on the ballot for his own position at one point?

[Mad Jack]

Hileville's comparison of TSP to Osiris is interesting, as the latter is experiencing a period of unity and reconciliation not seen since the days following the December/January Coup last year, whilst vested interests in TSP continue to cause disunity and strife.

I'd expect Hileville will take up a role within Osiris's cabinet before one in TSP's in the future.

[Frattastan II]

Quitting so soon after the election (and when you are in charge of a key department - Foreign Affairs) doesn't seem really helpful to the Delegate, the Cabinet, or the rest of the region, more so if TSP is actually facing difficult times.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Hileville's comparison of TSP to Osiris is interesting, as the latter is experiencing a period of unity and reconciliation not seen since the days following the December/January Coup last year, whilst vested interests in TSP continue to cause disunity and strife.

I'd expect Hileville will take up a role within Osiris's cabinet before one in TSP's in the future.

What vested interests are these, exactly?

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Didn't Antariel resign, run, and then forget to get on the ballot for his own position at one point?

He did. He failed to accept his nomination and complete his CoI report if I remember correctly.

[Cormac A Stark]

I'd expect Hileville will take up a role within Osiris's cabinet before one in TSP's in the future.

As a note, he already has one: Scribe of Isis (Integration).

In any event, as both a newer citizen of The South Pacific and as Vizier of Osiris I wish the Assembly and the Cabinet of The South Pacific well and I'm sure Hileville will continue to be a valuable member of the TSP community. His shoes will be tough to fill in foreign affairs, but TSP has many capable individuals and I'm sure they will find one who is more than qualified to handle their affairs with other regions. I'm sure they will also prove more than capable of getting back on track without some of the unsolicited advice and criticism I've seen directed toward TSP and/or Hileville thus far in this thread.

[Anumia]

TSP is quite resilient, and will weather this. I feel for Escade though: she must be wondering what happened to the concept of a honeymoon period

I hope Hileville finds enjoyment elsewhere in TSP or NS soon.

[Kringalia]

Hileville is a valuable member of our community and has done great service to our region. It's indeed regrettable though that he chose to resign so few weeks into the term, though I fully disagree with his assessment that TSP is somehow turning into Osiris (or Osiris a few weeks ago, depending on your perspective). Of course we all wish him the best in his future endeavors.

For accuracy's sake, the Chief Justice is not a member of the Cabinet, so we've only had two resignations from Cabinet members, not three.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Hileville's comparison of TSP to Osiris is interesting, as the latter is experiencing a period of unity and reconciliation not seen since the days following the December/January Coup last year, whilst vested interests in TSP continue to cause disunity and strife.

The amount of "disunity and strife" some in these forums say exists in TSP is vastly over-stated.

[Beta Test]

An interesting decision.

[Unibot III]

For accuracy's sake, the Chief Justice is not a member of the Cabinet, so we've only had two resignations from Cabinet members, not three.

It's been a while since I've been Chief Justice - it was a Cabinet position when I was Chief Justice.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

For accuracy's sake, the Chief Justice is not a member of the Cabinet, so we've only had two resignations from Cabinet members, not three.

It's been a while since I've been Chief Justice - it was a Cabinet position when I was Chief Justice.

When you were Chief Justice it was Minister of Justice and we had jury system