NationStates News Express: News on the Run

[The United Territory of Earth]

Raiders have recently been going for small hit regions just to get their name out there. It would be pointless for defenders to defend these regions anyhow, so the hundreds of TBR regions you see out there are not always losses, but usually blanketed territory over already desolate or spare regions.

Id like to see the defenders working more with the Pacific's. It seems like the Pacific's are more independent than defender these days.

[The North Polish Union]

Raiders have recently been going for small hit regions just to get their name out there. It would be pointless for defenders to defend these regions anyhow, so the hundreds of TBR regions you see out there are not always losses, but usually blanketed territory over already desolate or spare regions.

Id like to see the defenders working more with the Pacific's. It seems like the Pacific's are more independent than defender these days.

Because most of them are sick of constant Defender interference in their politics.

[Karputsk]

Welcome to the realities of piling.

Seems to me that if you guys were better at the initial defence this wouldn't be a problem...alternately, since piling requires a large investment of raider resources, the defenders could take the time to fan out for a few updates and release multiple other regions that are not piled, before coming in to fight the pile.

Defenders cannot be entirely reactionary, allowing raiders to entirely set the course of in-game warfare, and expect to make much ground.

I won't disagree that being proactive has its benefits but there are limitations to just how proactive we can be. Nowadays with split second timings regardless of variance and the difficulties posed by Abbey it's even more difficult to make use of the times when we actually have a chance to defend. All you need to do is miss one update or take your eyes away from the reports or activity page for just one second and you miss everything.

[Beta Test]

That liberation was fun.

[Mad Jack]

-snip-

Just because you said arsed rather than assed doesn't mean I'll take it easy on you

Hang on, you can't simultaneously crow about getting 40+ guys against 20+ guys and also claim Real Life^TM is the reason you can't defend. According to this Asia updates at around 52 minutes into update. Now what were most of those guys who were online doing for the 40 or so minutes beforehand (update being what it is in defender IRC rooms, I doubt anything would get done for 10-15 minutes before a lib )?

[Tim-Opolis]

-snip-

Just because you said arsed rather than assed doesn't mean I'll take it easy on you

Hang on, you can't simultaneously crow about getting 40+ guys against 20+ guys and also claim Real Life^TM is the reason you can't defend. According to this Asia updates at around 52 minutes into update. Now what were most of those guys who were online doing for the 40 or so minutes beforehand (update being what it is in defender IRC rooms, I doubt anything would get done for 10-15 minutes before a lib )?

You know #udl as well as I do.
They were spamming and chatting up until minutes before the Move Time was given

[Mad Jack]

You know #udl as well as I do.
They were spamming and chatting up until minutes before the Move Time was given

Heh. Terrible.

[Charax]

Also, how's that R/D neutrality thing going for you Raven?

Oh wonderfully thank you, Charax. I am a little tired of being backstabbed by defenders so frequently though.

It's very hard to be neutral when one faction constantly backstabs you - I'm not entirely sure what the defenders gain by pushing me towards the Raiders and Imperialists seeing as I was quite determined to stay out of Gameplay politics once upon a time.

Alas, perhaps I am simply a bad choice of character to trust unsavoury characters, seeing as I had a defender-heavy private channel of people I believed were friends.

Alas, I am late to realise this - that there can be no friendships that gameplay does not come before.

The cynicism hurts, y'know. I never betrayed anything from that channel, not once. And last I checked, I wasn't a raider either.

Whatever your justification, leaning towards one alignment over another is not neutrality. Why not accept that people can be dicks sometimes and move on, without trusting those individuals again? Surely that's not only more neutral, but makes more sense, than declaring that defenders are backstabbing sods who are out to get you?

[Anumia]

Defenders cannot be entirely reactionary

You mean "reactive".

I do indeed; my apologies.

Have you seen TBR's tag raid thread?

I've got to agree with my compadre on this one. If TBR is allowed to gloat that much after putting graffiti on 40+ backwaters, I think we deserve this for winning a liberation
Also, if people would remember, this is our usual reaction to successful big liberations. Sadly we just haven't had enough of them lately, which I believe is the topic we're now discussing.


My two cents on the issue is, replying to StGeorge, that we simply can't be arsed to stay up for a Major and Minor Update every day with the numbers to spot and stop raids. For example, let's take the Asia raid. I believe TBR prided themselves in 10+ updaters. It's impossible to have a team of 10+ online at every update watching for Invasions. We have lives too, you know. I think you forget to account, Georgie, that updates for folks like the Eastern Timezone North Americans are late at night and at a time when we're usually eating lunch/in school/at work. For those in GMT, it's even worse. The fact of the matter is, we have these things called Real Lives that prevent us from being able to constantly field a force at update time. Hell, the only reason I'm up during update time is *because* I'm still doing all the Work/Homework that I have piled up from the day.
Please be realistic in your demands.

Impossible to have a team of 10+ online (perhaps not -every- update but at least for most)? You pulled in nine defender groups, plus help from the NSA to make ten, representing a total of more than ten whole regions, for this mission...and you cannot scrape together ten to twenty updaters between all ten defender groups combined?

[Tim-Opolis]

Impossible to have a team of 10+ online (perhaps not -every- update but at least for most)? You pulled in nine defender groups, plus help from the NSA to make ten, representing a total of more than ten whole regions, for this mission...and you cannot scrape together ten to twenty updaters between all ten defender groups combined?

Yes, sadly it's true. One of the things not mentioned in the update is that a lot of those people were sleeper deployed into the region, specifically because they could not make that update for whatever reason (RL, can't do updates, etc). Another fairly large bit of them were part of our non-WA team; people who were WA immobile but still wanted to help with the operation. So, in the end, yeah... we don't have enough regular updaters to defend with 10+ most updates

edit: This isn't accounting for TITO's potential troops each update. I'm unsure of their regular numbers, and can't speak for that.

[Unibot III]

Or, maybe this (almost desperate) negative spin from Anumia, MadJack and co. is bullshit, because it makes a lot of sense to prioritize stopping occupations when they occur: regions are in greater danger in occupations than they are just in the initial tag.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but in Anumia and MadJack's world, one unrelated wrong makes other rights, wrongs!

[Beta Test]

Well on another note, I'm pleased to see Kingdom of Great Britain and Eire was liberated after what happened...

[Benevolent Thomas]

For example, let's take the Asia raid. I believe TBR prided themselves in 10+ updaters. It's impossible to have a team of 10+ online at every update watching for Invasions.

Unfortunately, I think there was enough defenders on that night to stop the Asia raid. Perhaps not though, it was a really nice trigger. A far better deployment than when they tried Japan earlier on in the update. Take it from someone that ended up being on the ban list

[Unibot III]

For example, let's take the Asia raid. I believe TBR prided themselves in 10+ updaters. It's impossible to have a team of 10+ online at every update watching for Invasions.

Unfortunately, I think there was enough defenders on that night to stop the Asia raid. Perhaps not though, it was a really nice trigger. A far better deployment than when they tried Japan earlier on in the update. Take it from someone that ended up being on the ban list

Often their bigger invasions are usually easier to defend. Bigger move-times, less experienced troops. Unfortunately, my net was inoperable the night Asia was taken, so I ordered the newer defenders who were under my command to focus on detags instead.

[Anumia]

Impossible to have a team of 10+ online (perhaps not -every- update but at least for most)? You pulled in nine defender groups, plus help from the NSA to make ten, representing a total of more than ten whole regions, for this mission...and you cannot scrape together ten to twenty updaters between all ten defender groups combined?

Yes, sadly it's true. One of the things not mentioned in the update is that a lot of those people were sleeper deployed into the region, specifically because they could not make that update for whatever reason (RL, can't do updates, etc). Another fairly large bit of them were part of our non-WA team; people who were WA immobile but still wanted to help with the operation. So, in the end, yeah... we don't have enough regular updaters to defend with 10+ most updates

edit: This isn't accounting for TITO's potential troops each update. I'm unsure of their regular numbers, and can't speak for that.

Fair enough I suppose. It's kinda sad but okay.

Or, maybe this (almost desperate) negative spin from Anumia, MadJack and co. is bullshit, because it makes a lot of sense to prioritize stopping occupations when they occur: regions are in greater danger in occupations than they are just in the initial tag.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but in Anumia and MadJack's world, one unrelated wrong makes other rights, wrongs!

Did you -read- the massive fanfare about this one liberation? The desperation is wafting over from that direction.

[Solorni]

Anumia, you don't understand the sacrifice and hard work defenders make in making sure the rest of the world can sleep safely at night. Their struggle is like no other. Do you know hard it is for the UDLs younger members (90%) to stay up so late?

[Frattastan II]

90% also happens to be the percentage of your posts which are made up of snark and lack relevant arguments.

[Solorni]

Eh, it's the gameplay forum

[Sedgistan]

Eh, it's the gameplay forum

Most regular posters actually manage to contribute to discussions, rather than following Unibot around making snide comments and hiding behind smilies. It would be nice to see you make more of an effort with your posts again.

[Cerlon]

Did you -read- the massive fanfare about this one liberation? The desperation is wafting over from that direction.

Defenders have had an inglorious last few months, but I think Asia stands out as a turning point in their eyes and thus they are excited in future anticipation of increased cooperation and success. That's good for them. It is entirely understandable that they'd be pleased about such a large liberation, especially given that reality. You can shine it in a negative light if you wish to, but your criticisms are more so rooted in your alignment's intention to undermine the success of defenders than a genuine lack of understanding about their excitement and what it says about their future plans.

On another note, I'm personally impressed that you can smell this supposed "desperation" over the wretched stench that emits after every "impressive success" in a puppet dump by The Black Riders. It's almost as if you're intentionally trying to ignore it.

Eh, it's the gameplay forum

Most regular posters actually manage to contribute to discussions, rather than following Unibot around making snide comments and hiding behind smilies. It would be nice to see you make more of an effort with your posts again.

Comments about UDL'ers staying up late and other fundamentally weird remarks are typical for a shameless socialite "player" like Solorni. I wouldn't be optimistic about seeing a change any time soon. Snide comments and mechanisms such as smilies and faux ignorance are tactics regularly exercised by Rach to promote her political and social standing amongst ignorant players and opportunists that wish to leach off of her "success". It's been a gold mine for her for years, which is a shame because that essentially reflects the unsophisticated, uninteresting sort of political/social atmosphere that she (though she is by no means the only guilty party) has fostered in GP.

It's also no surprise that she doesn't use actual arguments -- I've seen her try to be logical before and she tends to embarrass herself in her attempts to do so. Her attacks on Unibot have been so persistent because putting down Unibot is a politically convenient means of both being cannon fodder for her superior's sophisticated side of debates that are beyond her apparent capabilities and gaining political popularity amongst socialites, and because Unibot, unlike many NSers, isn't very good at defending himself. He's an easy target and she's a shameless viper. Aside from that, in another instance she tried to play dumb and make snide comments about Lazarus shutting down relations with Balder, and her inability to logically respond to being called out on her deflections resulted in the Lazarene embassy being given unusually restrictive permissions after it was archived, presumably so that her diplomatic incompetence wouldn't be mocked ad infinitum by future readers or used as a reference for when she's been called out on her transparently weightless style of play. Her strength in this game has arisen from her tendency to put other people down to make herself look better, being a crafty neutral with social maneuvering and raiding as her only real skills, and being a lapdog to more influential players like NES. Expecting meaningful contribution from her is no more futile and humorous than asking your refrigerator to write a dissertation on string theory.

Don't be surprised if and when this post is addressed substantially by the players she relies on for the political support and contributive arguing skill that she lacks.

[Mahaj]

Comments about UDL'ers staying up late and other fundamentally weird remarks are typical for a shameless socialite "player" like Solorni. I wouldn't be optimistic about seeing a change any time soon. Snide comments and mechanisms such as smilies and faux ignorance are tactics regularly exercised by Rach to promote her political and social standing amongst ignorant players and opportunists that wish to leach off of her "success". It's been a gold mine for her for years, which is a shame because that essentially reflects the unsophisticated, uninteresting sort of political/social atmosphere that she (though she is by no means the only guilty party) has fostered in GP.

It's also no surprise that she doesn't use actual arguments -- I've seen her try to be logical before and she tends to embarrass herself in her attempts to do so. Her attacks on Unibot have been so persistent because putting down Unibot is a politically convenient means of both being cannon fodder for her superior's sophisticated side of debates that are beyond her apparent capabilities and gaining political popularity amongst socialites, and because Unibot, unlike many NSers, isn't very good at defending himself. He's an easy target and she's a shameless viper. Aside from that, in another instance she tried to play dumb and make snide comments about Lazarus shutting down relations with Balder, and her inability to logically respond to being called out on her deflections resulted in the Lazarene embassy being given unusually restrictive permissions after it was archived, presumably so that her diplomatic incompetence wouldn't be mocked ad infinitum by future readers or used as a reference for when she's been called out on her transparently weightless style of play. Her strength in this game has arisen from her tendency to put other people down to make herself look better, being a crafty neutral with social maneuvering and raiding as her only real skills, and being a lapdog to more influential players like NES. Expecting meaningful contribution from her is no more futile and humorous than asking your refrigerator to write a dissertation on string theory.

Don't be surprised if and when this post is addressed substantially by the players she relies on for the political support and contributive arguing skill that she lacks.

That was... an interesting read, and a not-terrible-inaccurate take on it.

[Solorni]

I can use actual arguments, but people like you and Unibot aren't deserving of them. I enjoy how you call me a socialite player, when the NPO is the guiltiest party of petty social politics (one only has to look at their whole gossip page on NES). The only party embarrassed by the Lazarus/Balder split was Lazarus. It's arguments had no weight and were poor beyond belief. Sometimes, it's beneath you. It's no wonder NPO members such as yourself are consigned to the regions in NS with the lowest activity.

I do love the personal attacks on my person, given how you call me a "viper". Let's not try to be too obvious with the hypocrisy.

[Unibot III]

I can use actual arguments, but [...]

So if you're not here to actually contribute, then why are you here? To embarrass yourself, Balder and your allies?

[Cerlon]

I can use actual arguments, but people like you and Unibot aren't deserving of them. I enjoy how you call me a socialite player, when the NPO is the guiltiest party of petty social politics (one only has to look at their whole gossip page on NES). The only party embarrassed by the Lazarus/Balder split was Lazarus. It's arguments had no weight and were poor beyond belief. Sometimes, it's beneath you. It's no wonder NPO members such as yourself are consigned to the regions in NS with the lowest activity.

I do love the personal attacks on my person, given how you call me a "viper". Let's not try to be too obvious with the hypocrisy.

I am amused that your response says that we aren't deserving of your arguments: it's evident that you're just trying to avoid arguing because it's an obvious weakness for you. If you could argue against me, you would. But you don't. Now, as for Lazarus, you can say what you will about the split, but I don't think you'd have hauled it off to a secret part of the forum and locked the thread if you were winning the debate.

It's also telling that you call Lazarus a region with the lowest activity. Lazarus is extremely active, as evidenced by the fact that it has performed nearly fifty missions in the past month and a half (how's Balder's military doing), has averaged over a hundred posts per day since November, and has made significant progress in every aspect of the region's affairs. But I'm not one to expect you to use facts or evidence in your rhetoric.

EDIT: My use of the word "sweety" was inappropriate, condescending and the result of frustration. I apologize for using it.

[Cerlon]

Oh, and let's not forget that the Laz-Balder argument ended with me pointing out every argumentative deflection you exercise, and you confirming my argument itself by subsequently decrying me as a sexist out of the blue and then locking the thread.