NationStates

Douria wrote:I liked the other thread better. Can we get back to how I'm a sore loser and terrible and stuff?

But if we can't, lets accept the fact that some guys who do not currently(and have promised not to) destroy forums are part of a community. That community has it's own character and quirks, and it happens to have the same name as a community that learned its lesson about forum destruction long ago.

If we don't learn to forgive these people eventually... there's no point in them ever stopping.

*claps*
Now. Can we get on with shaping Osiris' laws and constitution on the offsite forums? You know...like the stuff that actually needs doing, unlike random bitching? Because unlike some people may...I don't like random bitching.

Douria wrote:I liked the other thread better. Can we get back to how I'm a sore loser and terrible and stuff?

But if we can't, lets accept the fact that some guys who do not currently(and have promised not to) destroy forums are part of a community. That community has it's own character and quirks, and it happens to have the same name as a community that learned its lesson about forum destruction long ago.

If we don't learn to forgive these people eventually... there's no point in them ever stopping.

Well, what I said before I was so rudely ejected from the region was 'who cares who's in charge as long as they have plans for the region and intend to do right by it?' paraphrasing.

As much as people may dislike it, this is an element of gameplay. Even the forum destroyers are an element of it; they're our criminals. Some people believe in second chances; there's no need to hate them for it. If you're wary, give them some room and see what comes of their giving a second chance. You might be pleasantly surprised, but if things turn out for the worse, then you definitely did see it coming and that region that was attacked will then need your help and assistance because you've been through it before, yourself.

The thing that people need to remember is that everyone is just another person. None of us are truly monsters, though some have definitely been labeled as one. You don't have to cease being wary just because you give someone a second chance, either. Watch that mofo, make sure he ain't up to something. Just give them a chance to do right and don't allow them to do anything but. They might go away on their own, or they might become a valued part of your community and come to love it for what it is.

Douria wrote:I liked the other thread better. Can we get back to how I'm a sore loser and terrible and stuff?

But if we can't, lets accept the fact that some guys who do not currently(and have promised not to) destroy forums are part of a community. That community has it's own character and quirks, and it happens to have the same name as a community that learned its lesson about forum destruction long ago.

If we don't learn to forgive these people eventually... there's no point in them ever stopping.

Sorry, nobody was willing to play devils advocate anymore.

I do have a policy on forgiving, incidentally. I forgive those who make a conscious effort to actually create something worthwhile instead of continue to destroy. I can't say I've been particularly consistent on how I apply it, but I do apply it.

Vakolic wrote:

Douria wrote:I liked the other thread better. Can we get back to how I'm a sore loser and terrible and stuff?

But if we can't, lets accept the fact that some guys who do not currently(and have promised not to) destroy forums are part of a community. That community has it's own character and quirks, and it happens to have the same name as a community that learned its lesson about forum destruction long ago.

If we don't learn to forgive these people eventually... there's no point in them ever stopping.

*claps*
Now. Can we get on with shaping Osiris' laws and constitution on the offsite forums? You know...like the stuff that actually needs doing, unlike random bitching? Because unlike some people may...I don't like random bitching.

Sure!

You can visit the offsite forum at http://s13.zetaboards.com/osiris_ns/index

Mahaj wrote:

Vakolic wrote:*claps*
Now. Can we get on with shaping Osiris' laws and constitution on the offsite forums? You know...like the stuff that actually needs doing, unlike random bitching? Because unlike some people may...I don't like random bitching.

Sure!

You can visit the offsite forum at http://s13.zetaboards.com/osiris_ns/index

I was a member of that forum long, long ago...when I was immature, and new to gameplay, and known as Imperial.

Now, I'm a member of the new forum, a move I didn't make late at night (as joining the old one was, I recall) under the name of Empire.

The thing is...I can actually help build a region if I use the new forum. I'll wait for you to sell the old forum to me.

Vakolic wrote:
The thing is...I can actually help build a region if I use the new forum. I'll wait for you to sell the old forum to me.

Yeah, I'm sure the delegate will listen to your ideas.

Mahaj wrote:

Vakolic wrote:
The thing is...I can actually help build a region if I use the new forum. I'll wait for you to sell the old forum to me.

Yeah, I'm sure the delegate will listen to your ideas.

That is yet to be seen. All I remember from the very beginning is that Zaolett most definitely did not.

I have to ask, is anyone taking this Who and What is Happening fellow seriously?

Yes, a lot of people are absolutely devastated by the knowledge that Of Crazed once tried to raid a region.

Auralia wrote:I have to ask, is anyone taking this Who and What is Happening fellow seriously?

No.

Given my history I suppose i'd better make myself available for questions in this thread.
I am, or was, Lord Alphanesia.
I was a member of the high command, and am currently in contact with Aeazer and others.
I will not be participating in the invasions, as I am retired. I have asked politely if I can tell you what I know to help clear things up, and they have agreed.

NS Forum Lurker wrote:

Cerian Quilor wrote:

Troll does not mean someone who likes to engage in arguement and debate.

is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

I haven't started these arguements, posted inflammatory, extraneous or offtopic messages, nor have I disrupted normal discussion or tried to provoke readers into an emotional response.

By this point, the mods would have punished me for trolling, given how much I have done this on Gameplay by now.

Oh, Frak, did you say something? My BS translators are not working any more, so I will need you to translate what you said into a real arguement.

Well, you argue and debate for no purpose other than because you enjoy it, self-admittedly. You fail to be informed of the facts of what you're debating and generally inflame the conversation just to get people to argue and debate with you because you enjoy it. The mods, self-admittedly, only take care of problems people report. People aren't likely to report you because it's not the variant of it that they're used to.

I don't inflame the conversation.

Do you have a horse in this race? No.

I'm a troll, then you are as much as I am. Since I'm not a troll, you're not a troll.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Given my history I suppose i'd better make myself available for questions in this thread.
I am, or was, Lord Alphanesia.
I was a member of the high command, and am currently in contact with Aeazer and others.
I will not be participating in the invasions, as I am retired. I have asked politely if I can tell you what I know to help clear things up, and they have agreed.

A claim of a well known AC affiliate. Please verify your standing and personality.

In this heated discussion, it is easy for a third person to claim so and so, just to mislead and further derail the topic.

Sierra Lobo wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Given my history I suppose i'd better make myself available for questions in this thread.
I am, or was, Lord Alphanesia.
I was a member of the high command, and am currently in contact with Aeazer and others.
I will not be participating in the invasions, as I am retired. I have asked politely if I can tell you what I know to help clear things up, and they have agreed.

A claim of a well known AC affiliate. Please verify your standing and personality.

In this heated discussion, it is easy for a third person to claim so and so, just to mislead and further derail the topic.

I can verify that he is who he says he is.

Avakael wrote:

Sierra Lobo wrote:A claim of a well known AC affiliate. Please verify your standing and personality.

In this heated discussion, it is easy for a third person to claim so and so, just to mislead and further derail the topic.

I can verify that he is who he says he is.

Thanks Avakael. Duly noted.

Lord Alphanesia,

I would like to know if:

1. Is the combine fully reformed? I am not speaking of splinter cells.W hat I want to know is, "if combine is active again as it was before it disappear?"
2. If the combine is active will it categorically and fully support COPS?
3. Was the use of the AC flag/symbol in osiris authorized?
4. What is the entity's relationship to GV currently?

Avakael wrote:

Sierra Lobo wrote:A claim of a well known AC affiliate. Please verify your standing and personality.

In this heated discussion, it is easy for a third person to claim so and so, just to mislead and further derail the topic.

I can verify that he is who he says he is.

Thanks.
I was wondering how to verify it. There are multiple people who probably can.

I was in the middle of writing up a large post on the forum destruction issue, but frankly it's got a lot of context and shit that you don't want. probably.
So it all boils down to:
The AC does not have a fixed command structure.
Agents have operational freedom.
Agents can use that freedom to do what they want.
Apparently, some used it for forum destruction.
While there is a broad strategic goal usually in mind, the exact nature of how one goes about "Neutralize region X." doesn't concern anyone but the agent. A peace treaty is just as good as a forum destruction, it's their decision.
As there is a lack of any real command structure, appeals process, or courts system, it is frankly ludicrous to propose the AC punish members for something, since it would amount to us saying "Well you can't be in the AC anymore." and then they just carry on talking to people in the AC, claiming to be AC, and doing exactly what they were doing previously. At best, individual members could give eachother the cold shoulder. I spent months ignoring several members who just pissed me off.
For these reasons, I think it's unfair to blame all previous members.

Cool.

So. What's on the slate for Osiris right now? Mahaj; you can say the action is on your forums, but it looks like Gatesville has your region at the moment, which means the action is there. Perhaps instead of fighting so hard, you could go and see what's going on there. Hear what they have to say; feel the drift. At the moment, until you retain your region, the old ways are up-heaved. Adapt. Are they having elections on the forums? Are they setting up a constitution? What are they doing there besides laughing at their own wit in taking your region?

NS Forum Lurker wrote:Cool.

So. What's on the slate for Osiris right now? Mahaj; you can say the action is on your forums, but it looks like Gatesville has your region at the moment, which means the action is there. Perhaps instead of fighting so hard, you could go and see what's going on there. Hear what they have to say; feel the drift. At the moment, until you retain your region, the old ways are up-heaved. Adapt. Are they having elections on the forums? Are they setting up a constitution? What are they doing there besides laughing at their own wit in taking your region?

The aim of the TNI/LKE part of the coalition is the complete removal of "UDL Influence" from Osiris. As Mahaj is the leader of the UDL, it is difficult to imagine that he would be welcome on that forum.

o/ Alph ... long time no see.

The problem with the AC (from my perspective) was the AC's general refusal to condemn "rogue" actions by its members. Are you saying the AC was not an organization but rather a collective of rogue elements? It seems to me, even in anarchy, there is a willingness to belong and a definition of who or what does not belong. What you did not condemn, you condoned. And for this reason, I see a case FOR blaming all the former members who did not condemn such activities nor walk away from supporting those who perpetrated such activities.

Sierra Lobo wrote:

Avakael wrote:I can verify that he is who he says he is.

Thanks Avakael. Duly noted.

Lord Alphanesia,

I would like to know if:

1. Is the combine fully reformed? I am not speaking of splinter cells.W hat I want to know is, "if combine is active again as it was before it disappear?"
2. If the combine is active will it categorically and fully support COPS?
3. Was the use of the AC flag/symbol in osiris authorized?
4. What is the entity's relationship to GV currently?

1. I have been told that there were not considering reformation until people started talking about it. It didn't cross their minds, but now they are discussing it too. It may or may not occur.
2. That may cause issues since the AC is not a typical organization or region.
3. There is no authorization required.
4. As far as I know, one of their chaps asked one of the AC's chaps to help out with a bit of soldiering and they called up the old gang for one last hurrah. I was invited, but have retired from soldiering.

To expand on 2, there is no fixed forum or command structure in the AC. It isn't a region. It's essentially an ideology and method of doing things.
It would be functionally impossible to enforce COPS even if we wanted to.


By the way, if my information contradicts what Aeazer said up there, i'd take it as read that he's right and i'm wrong.

Fact: Vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate ice cream

I like chocolate better.

Fact: We’ve permanently damaged Osiris’ former ruling cadre

Nope.

Fact: We’ve had a lot of fun doing it

Doing what?

Fact: We could stay indefinitely if we choose to

I guess you could - be a waste of everyone's time, though.

Fact: We might

Okay, not cool.

Fact: Vanilla ice cream is better than chocolate ice cream

I agree.

Fact: We don’t care about marsupials or Klingons

Fine with me.

Fact: It’s really time to move on

Wow, I agree. Yes, Nevadar, it is time to drop the grudges and accept that YOU are the in the wrong. Kthanksbye.

TAO the Wanderer wrote:o/ Alph ... long time no see.

The problem with the AC (from my perspective) was the AC's general refusal to condemn "rogue" actions by its members. Are you saying the AC was not an organization but rather a collective of rogue elements? It seems to me, even in anarchy, there is a willingness to belong and a definition of who or what does not belong. What you did not condemn, you condoned. And for this reason, I see a case FOR blaming all the former members who did not condemn such activities nor walk away from supporting those who perpetrated such activities.

It's difficult to condemn them if we're never aware of them. Most members don't know the full list of members.
Fuck, I doubt Aeazer's met them all.
The organic nature of the organization is why we kept infuriating people.
There were people in the AC who condemned forum destruction. Plenty.

Oooh Nev ... I like your "jilted lover" response. It was very ... long. But I don't see you playing the 'evil queen' role very successfully. You are too nice a person and I understand why you wrote that ... long ... thingy. But, trying to be 'evil' when you are not takes its toll on a person.

*sets up a table of dishes for you to break*