NationStates

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:14 pm**

Everbeek wrote:All this time I was trying to help regain Cormac's delegacy and now I find out he deliberately prolonged the coup just to get rid of people like me? What a bloody waste of my time

Any suggestion that Cormac deliberately prolonged the coup relies on the belief that the UDL couldbe gathered 40-50 updaters who would've then been able to move on time and endorse before updating or being kicked.

You and I both know that that happening was very, very unlikely.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:51 pm**

Mad Jack wrote:
Everbeek wrote:All this time I was trying to help regain Cormac's delegacy and now I find out he deliberately prolonged the coup just to get rid of people like me? What a bloody waste of my time

Any suggestion that Cormac deliberately prolonged the coup relies on the belief that the UDL couldbe gathered 40-50 updaters who would've then been able to move on time and endorse before updating or being kicked.

You and I both know that that happening was very, very unlikely.

Spot on.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 1:57 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:
Mad Jack wrote:Any suggestion that Cormac deliberately prolonged the coup relies on the belief that the UDL couldbe gathered 40-50 updaters who would've then been able to move on time and endorse before updating or being kicked.

You and I both know that that happening was very, very unlikely.

Spot on.

If UIAF was on Osiris's side endorsing Cormac and ready for a liberation, then yes, a liberation would have been possible. Its not the UDL against everyone, this is Osiris and Osiris had a lot of friends, it is a coup of a GCR, not some random UDL-liberation. NPO would have been able to supply 30, the GCRs another 20 in total, UIAF I bet 10 if they really worked at, UDL 15-20, FRA 10, and if you really worked hard instead of jumping around, TITO with another 20. Plus, with a little aid, move-to-endo time can be reduced to one second for even the most newbiest of them. A liberation was most definitely in the question if the UIAF was up for it, instead they endorsed TDE and tried at the extortion game.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:03 pm**

Solm wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:
Spot on.

If UIAF was on Osiris's side endorsing Cormac and ready for a liberation, then yes, a liberation would have been possible. Its not the UDL against everyone, this is Osiris and Osiris had a lot of friends, it is a coup of a GCR, not some random UDL-liberation. NPO would have been able to supply 30, the GCRs another 20 in total, UIAF I bet 10 if they really worked at, UDL 15-20, FRA 10, and if you really worked hard instead of jumping around, TITO with another 20. Plus, with a little aid, move-to-endo time can be reduced to one second for even the most newbiest of them. A liberation was most definitely in the question if the UIAF was up for it, instead they endorsed TDE and tried at the extortion game.

This is utterly incorrect. And if you knew anything about military gameplay you could see that. TDE has a tonne of influence, and even without UIAF the endorsement gap would have been 50+. If you think that NPO could amass 30 updaters, and other GCRs another 20, you are living in a fantasy world. And if you think even if we could collectively amass 50 updaters, that we could get them into the region without being ejected, again, its a fantasy. We did not win TSP by these absurd UDL sponsored liberations, which were by and large disastrously mistimed, and wholly ineffective. The only thing they did was reduce our morale. We won by draining their influence. And thats exactly how you win any such battle, and thats exactly what UIAF, FRA, Spiritus, Europeia, and any other NS Military's with a shred of credibility, did here.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:06 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:We won by draining their influence. And thats exactly how you win any such battle, and thats exactly what UIAF, FRA, Spiritus, Europeia, and any other NS Military's with a shred of credibility, did here.

How did you "[win] by draining their influence?" TDE is voluntarily handing over the delegate spot to Cormac. You didn't unseat the coup. You got Cormac to give Gatesville everything they wanted.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:07 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:This is utterly incorrect. And if you knew anything about military gameplay you could see that. TDE has a tonne of influence, and even without UIAF the endorsement gap would have been 50+. If you think that NPO could amass 30 updaters, and other GCRs another 20, you are living in a fantasy world. And if you think even if we could collectively amass 50 updaters, that we could get them into the region without being ejected, again, its a fantasy. We did not win TSP by these absurd UDL sponsored liberations, which were by and large disastrously mistimed, and wholly ineffective. The only thing they did was reduce our morale. We won by draining their influence. And thats exactly how you win any such battle, and thats exactly what UIAF, FRA, Spiritus, Europeia, and any other NS Military's with a shred of credibility, did here.

NES is correct here. The fantasy that we were ever going to liberate Osiris at update is just that, fantasy. The idea that this would magically have been possible without the UIAF presence in the region is also fantasy.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:08 pm**

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:We won by draining their influence. And thats exactly how you win any such battle, and thats exactly what UIAF, FRA, Spiritus, Europeia, and any other NS Military's with a shred of credibility, did here.

How did you "[win] by draining their influence?" TDE is voluntarily handing over the delegate spot to Cormac. You didn't unseat the coup.

NES was clearly referring to TSP, not Osiris, when he referred to draining of influence.

Here, the potential draining of influence provided leverage and created a genuine threat, which was used to induce negotiations for a mutually acceptable outcome which is now returning the Delegacy to Osiris. That is far preferable to half-baked and fanciful update liberation attempts.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:10 pm**

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:We won by draining their influence. And thats exactly how you win any such battle, and thats exactly what UIAF, FRA, Spiritus, Europeia, and any other NS Military's with a shred of credibility, did here.

How did you "[win] by draining their influence?" TDE is voluntarily handing over the delegate spot to Cormac. You didn't unseat the coup. You got Cormac to give Gatesville everything they wanted.

How about you quote me properly instead of trying to mislead everyone, hmm? We can manage without your square brackets thank you.

I said:

We did not win TSP by these absurd UDL sponsored liberations, which were by and large disastrously mistimed, and wholly ineffective. The only thing they did was reduce our morale. We won by draining their influence.

We won TSP by draining the influence of Milograd. I was clearly talking about TSP in that reference, and I maintain. We did not win TSP via "absurd UDL sponsored liberations, which were by and large disastrously mistimed, and wholly ineffective" which only served to "reduce our morale. And instead "we won by draining their influence."

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:17 pm**

I was not referring to TSP. I was referring to Osiris. Carta had no intentions of staying in the delegacy of TSP, his only goal was to troll everyone. But the last I checked, TDE's influence was growing. So whatever attrition tactics you had going on here in Osiris, they weren't working very well. You only got this settled because Durk was bored and he could have even more laughs by making Osiris bend to his will however he sees fit. And for your information, I know more about military tactics in this game than you do, so please stop insulting my own expertise, because in this tiny little domain, I actually know what I'm talking about.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:19 pm**

But the last I checked, TDE's influence was growing. So whatever attrition tactics you had going on here in Osiris, they weren't working very well. So whatever attrition tactics you had going on here in Osiris, they weren't working very well.

You have no idea how influence works do you... :roll:

You only got this settled because Durk was bored and he could have even more laughs by making Osiris bend to his will however he sees fit. And for your information, I know more about military tactics in this game than you do, so please stop insulting my own expertise, because in this tiny little domain, I actually know what I'm talking about.

I don't think so.

I think you know how to time an update. Which I am sure I could teach a pet monkey to do equally well. I think thats the bounds of your skills, and indeed most of the rest of the UDL's skills. I think you are totally out of your depth here.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:20 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:We won TSP by draining the influence of Milograd. I was clearly talking about TSP in that reference, and I maintain.

That makes sense. I simply misread your post as referring to the recent surrender of Osiris. My apologies.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:23 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:
But the last I checked, TDE's influence was growing. So whatever attrition tactics you had going on here in Osiris, they weren't working very well. So whatever attrition tactics you had going on here in Osiris, they weren't working very well.

You have no idea how influence works do you...

I'm not going to get into a debate with you that will only be filled with personal accusations. If you want to talk to me, feel free to PM me on IRC. I've overseen countless liberations and have been a part of countless operations. You, on the other hand, just seem to enjoy playing politics and making personal remarks to shy away from the real issue at hand. I've stated it on IRC: we really cannot discuss this any further without Cormac here, but even after I got you to stop babbling nonsense on IRC, you then go to the forums. All of our conversations here are pretty moot, because we don't have the facts of what Cormac was thinking when this all went down. So once again I advise you stop blabbering so that we can wait for Cormac to make a statement and hear his side of the story, rather than making assumptions.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:26 pm**

Solm wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:
You have no idea how influence works do you...

I'm not going to get into a debate with you that will only be filled with personal accusations. If you want to talk to me, feel free to PM me on IRC. I've overseen countless liberations and have been a part of countless operations. You, on the other hand, just seem to enjoy playing politics and making personal remarks to shy away from the real issue at hand. I've stated it on IRC: we really cannot discuss this any further without Cormac here, but even after I got you to stop babbling nonsense on IRC, you then go to the forums. All of our conversations here are pretty moot, because we don't have the facts of what Cormac was thinking when this all went down. So once again I advise you stop blabbering so that we can wait for Cormac to make a statement and hear his side of the story, rather than making assumptions.

On the contrary, I think Cormac made his position perfectly clear:

NES is correct here. The fantasy that we were ever going to liberate Osiris at update is just that, fantasy. The idea that this would magically have been possible without the UIAF presence in the region is also fantasy.

Far from having no military expertise, NES and the UIAF command group as a whole have overseen countless occupations going back years and years.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:29 pm**

Solm this tactic you have of starting a debate then immediately crying "let's wait for Cormac" is getting really old really fast.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 2:33 pm**

Solm wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:
You have no idea how influence works do you...

I'm not going to get into a debate with you that will only be filled with personal accusations. If you want to talk to me, feel free to PM me on IRC. I've overseen countless liberations and have been a part of countless operations. You, on the other hand, just seem to enjoy playing politics and making personal remarks to shy away from the real issue at hand. I've stated it on IRC: we really cannot discuss this any further without Cormac here, but even after I got you to stop babbling nonsense on IRC, you then go to the forums. All of our conversations here are pretty moot, because we don't have the facts of what Cormac was thinking when this all went down. So once again I advise you stop blabbering so that we can wait for Cormac to make a statement and hear his side of the story, rather than making assumptions.

It's not a personal accusation. You don't know what you're doing, you are out of your depth, technically, in this area. Indeed, I am no great NS military aficionado nor do I claim to be. I make no qualms with that. But just by turning my attention to the subject, I can find out in a few hours of research more than you are taught by your entire UDL training. Because your culture teaches one not how to think, but how to follow instructions. Instructions guided by fanatical morality and a notion of doing right by following the institution. And that's where we differ. Your military skills are the product of institutional instructionalism. The UDL knows what is right, the UDL knows best. My military knowledge is the product of common sense and the ability to think for myself. And that is what independent regions are all about. The ability to think for yourself. And that is why we will always win in the end. Because freedom prevails over cults. And Onder is speaking the truth, I, often alongside him, have been overseeing NS military occupations and general actions, since long before you or even the mighty Unibot set foot in this game. Thank you for your time.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:33 pm**

If you believe the FRA or UDL had any real say in Osiris then you are deluded, especially in regards to the former.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm**

Personally, I agree regarding FRA.

Posted: **Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:52 pm**

Valfor wrote:
The Land of Kings and Emperors

(Image)

The Land of Kings and Emperors notes and welcomes the agreement of the Kemetic Republic of Osiris to the following terms:
1. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris will be restored as the ruling government of Osiris.
2. The delegacy will be transfered directly from The Dourian Embassy to Cormac A Stark.
3. The Dourian Embassy will not be ejected or banned from the region thereafter.
4. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris agrees to close relations with the Founderless Region Alliance (FRA).
5. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris agrees that all relations with the West Pacific will remain closed permanently.
6. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris agrees to end its participation in the Pan-Sinker Security Pact.
7. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris recognises Gatesville's intentions in their own unique way to promote sovereignty in Nationstates through the occupation of Osiris, thanks Gatesville for their willingness to broker a deal, and assures them that no ill-will remains.
8. The Kemetic Republic of Osiris recognises the support of The New Inquisition and The Land of Kings and Emperors in resolving this conflict and thanks them for their patience, loyalty and support throughout in dealing with all their stakeholders.

Throughout this conflict, The LKE's ultimate objectives have been stability, freedom and democracy in Osiris. A precondition to achieving the former objectives was naturally the removal of FRA and UDL influence. To achieve the latter meanwhile, the return of the Delegacy to the rightfully elected Pharoah, Cormac, was fundamental. It is for these reasons that The LKE used its considerable military leverage, achieved through the extensive UIAF deployment, to support negotiations between both sides in order to bring about a peaceful settlement. The agreement of the Kemetic Republic to these terms reflects such a peaceful settlement.

We are grateful to Osiris for their tribute to our role in reaching this agreement and thereby resolving this conflict, and we will now work to help secure the Delegacy as per the terms of the agreement, as soon as possible.

Valfor Talleyrand-Vulika
Prime Minister of The Land of Kings and Emperors

A great victory for LKE! LKE forever! Onder forever!

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:27 am**

North East Somerset wrote:<snip>

Bro, do you even trigger?

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:56 am**

Who and What is Happening wrote:
North East Somerset wrote:<snip>

Bro, do you even trigger?

He triggers, bro, and jumps, and points, and even lifts.

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:37 am**

Avakael wrote:
Who and What is Happening wrote:Bro, do you even trigger?

He triggers, bro, and jumps, and points, and even lifts.

Yeah, and I'd almost turn defender to see him put on his back.

And given the primary evidence, I seriously doubt the last part of your assertion.

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 6:42 am**

Who and What is Happening wrote:
Avakael wrote:He triggers, bro, and jumps, and points, and even lifts.

Yeah, and I'd almost turn defender to see him put on his back.

And given the primary evidence, I seriously doubt the last part of your assertion.

You don't even lift. What would you know about even lifting? Go home and even lift.

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 7:29 am**

Avakael wrote:
Who and What is Happening wrote:
Yeah, and I'd almost turn defender to see him put on his back.

And given the primary evidence, I seriously doubt the last part of your assertion.

You don't even lift. What would you know about even lifting? Go home and even lift.

Try associating yourself with a region that isn't inherently self-destructive for once Avakael, it may be a refreshing change of pace for you.

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:26 pm**

I believe we can all be very happy with the agreement which allows the legitimate and legally elected Pharaoh of Osiris resume his position as Delegate.

His Supreme Majesty, Emperor Onder's and indeed The LKE's objectives in Osiris were stability, freedom and democracy in Osiris and the Emperor has pressed for these objectives to be met through a diplomatic solution, returning Cormac to the Delegate position. We are all very happy to have assisted Osiris in it's time of need. His Supreme Majesty and the entity of The LKE Empire wish Osiris the best of luck in the future.

Posted: **Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:45 pm**

North East Somerset wrote:We won TSP by draining the influence of Milograd. I was clearly talking about TSP in that reference, and I maintain. We did not win TSP via "absurd UDL sponsored liberations, which were by and large disastrously mistimed, and wholly ineffective" which only served to "reduce our morale. And instead "we won by draining their influence."

Actually you won because Milo drained his own influence (and Durk helped) by ejecting anyone he (or Durk, as the case may be) claimed was an "oligarch."

NationStates

The Land of Kings and Emperors Embassy