The Land of Kings and Emperors Embassy

[Aynia Moreaux]

As someone who's had to deal with people messing with my forum and trolling, you guys have my sympathy sorting this out. No member of their region will be allowed in Caer Sidi.

[Salvarity]

Okay, thank you for the call-out Onder. I told you that the incident would be discussed, the clear reason being the severity described in your administrative dispatch was not equal to the severity we were led to believe the issue to be. Bad faith antics by you and your accomplices is exactly why we were so willing to open this embassy in the first place. It is no secret that after our “splintering” from the LKE, you took minor issues during that time period and made mountains out of molehills in order to damage our region and the reputation of the players behind it. These effects still lingering to this day. I’m still waiting for the proof that I leaked from the LKE forums. So I’m very sorry that we don’t take everything that is posted by your government as fact and that we are sympathetic to those we believed were wronged by you.
Bad faith antics to this day, like this stupid call-out. I have much better things to do than pen this out during my workday.

But my disdain for you and tirade over, it seems you are actually in the right, this time.

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open due to your bad faith antics, but the discussion was actually finished this morning, the embassy will close.

Forum destruction is as always reprehensible, but transphobia and hate speech is intolerable. The founding members of the New Roman Imperium are rather young and I saw them as impressionable, I had hoped that we would have been able to help them develop as a region and improve themselves to be better players and not repeat the spamming and destruction of history. But, once hate and transphobia have set in, there is little we can do except hope they improve themselves for the better.

[Onderkelkia]

Okay, thank you for the call-out Onder. I told you that the incident would be discussed, the clear reason being the severity described in your administrative dispatch was not equal to the severity we were led to believe the issue to be.

I approached you in hope that you would cease constructing the embassy when you were advised of the circumstances. When asked, you expressly declined to confirm that you would do this. Instead you continued with the construction of embassy (which at that time was uncompleted). You also confirmed that you were fully aware that they had inflicted significant damage on the LKE forums before accepting the embassy and defended the opening of the embassy.

If I had not wanted to treat your region fairly, the LKE could have easily proceeded without contacting you. We were releasing a statement regarding the forum incident and New Roman Imperium. This addressed the construction of embassies between New Roman Imperium and other regions. I did not want the Government to proceed with referencing Mare Nostrum without confirming you were aware of the situation and giving you the opportunity to cease construction of the embassy. I approached you to raise these matters. You both confirmed that you were aware that they had inflicted significant damage on our forums beforehand and refused to give any assurance that you would close the embassy. The LKE's subsequent statement was factual.

In all frankness, given the extent of your self-professed spite towards our region and your demonstrated willingness to bend the line on such matters by opening the embassy in the first place, I strongly doubt that you would be closing the embassy at all now if the matter was not being discussed publicly.

It is no secret that after our “splintering” from the LKE, you took minor issues during that time period and made mountains out of molehills in order to damage our region and the reputation of the players behind it. These effects still lingering to this day. I’m still waiting for the proof that I leaked from the LKE forums. So I’m very sorry that we don’t take everything that is posted by your government as fact and that we are sympathetic to those we believed were wronged by you.

Firstly, the (entirely factually correct) allegations made by the LKE against your region related to in-character matters. There is clearly a distinction between the two categories of behaviour. Just because there are differences between the LKE and your region on gameplay issues is no reason for you to be inclined to sympathise either those with who have committed acts of forum destruction or those who have posted inappropriate content on our forums.
Secondly, you may regard the issues in the LKE-Mare Nostrum dispute as making "mountains out of molehills", but that is not our view or feeling at all.

You believed that these people had been "wronged by" us? What at all about the facts of this incident released at any stage suggested that?

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open due to your bad faith antics, but the discussion was actually finished this morning, the embassy will close.

Evidently "The spite in [you]" is why you wilfully ignored the destruction of forum content and decided to open this embassy in the first place. You seem to have believed that creating an embassy with a group that attacked our forums was a legitimate way of retaliating against the LKE over your issues.

Your spite for us has overtaken your better judgement. That is not normal behaviour, even between gameplay adversaries. If Mare Nostrum was in an equivalent situation as the LKE has faced here, the LKE would never respond days later by an opening an embassy with the perpetrators.

I don't know how you have the bare-faced gall to accuse the LKE of "bad faith antics" when you behave like this. Before these events, I hoped for better.

[Cunaris]

As one of the nations that left the LKE over the behaviour of the people mentioned above, I can concur that the events described in the above post are true. During my stay with this region, several of the nations/names mentioned by Cunaris had expressed viewpoints that caused me to be severely dismayed. Not only did they call people who are LGBT mentally ill, they proceeded to justify why they believed LGBT'ers - in particular transgender people - indeed were mentally ill according to them and why society should consider them mentally ill. Asurmenia was one of the nations that provided the most radical view on their belief that transgender people should be considered mentally ill and should receive treatment for it, not to accept themselves or to change their body to who they feel they are, but to cure them of their supposed defect in their mind and make them "normal" again. Sarkos in turn proceeded to made very denigrating remarks, and I quote, "if you don't know what gender you are, look between your legs", which shows a strong lack of empathy for people who might struggle with their gender identity. If need be, I can support my claims with screenshots.

I am writing this not to throw mud on the members of the New Roman Imperium. My intent is to join in with the message posted by Cunaris to warn people what type of people are in that region's leadership and what views they hold. If I have gone too far and this will be considered as "calling out", then I will accept that. However, in this particular situation, I strongly believe transparency is necessary, especially so that new players looking at the New Roman Imperium will be aware of what they are entering. That is the sole motivation behind this post/reply.

Simultaneously, I must commend the leadership of the LKE for their reaction to the events that transpired on the 17th of August, but also for how they responded to the incident I have just described. The LKE leadership was quick to condemn the viewpoints expressed by Sarkos, Asurmenia and their friends, stating that anyone coming to the LKE should feel safe and comfortable, regardless of their background. It is why they deemed it unacceptable that such views had been expressed by the previously mentioned nations, which is a commendable course of action. No one should be called mentally ill for something that they can't change about themselves nor should they have to. It is also why I express my praise for the LKE, for the fact they are public about the events that transpired on the 17th of August. As stated before, in this particular situation, the utmost level of transparency is vitally important.

Thank you for testimony, it is appreciated. We are sorry that you faced such individuals within our region. We always try to do our very best to protect the community.

Balder is appalled at the actions of these individuals and of the region that harbours them.[...]We will continue to support our allies in the Land of Kings and Emperors, and hope that the perpetrators will eventually be brought to justice.

Europeia stands in support of our allies in the Land of Kings and Emperors and the actions taken by its administrative team. Transphobia and hate speech has no place in our game and should be rejected by all.

That really sucks, best wishes to you all LKE.

I was sorry to hear about the malicious acts of off-site property destruction perpetrated by these individuals. I may not see eye to eye with The Land of Kings and Emperors over in-character matters, but gameplayers should be united in condemning malicious acts of off-site property destruction.

The United Kingdom fully supports the actions taken by the administration team and government of the Land of Kings and Emperors against the individuals involved in the attempt at off-site forum and property destruction.

As someone who's had to deal with people messing with my forum and trolling, you guys have my sympathy sorting this out. No member of their region will be allowed in Caer Sidi.

I would like to thank our allies in Balder, Europeia, and the United Kingdom, on behalf of the Imperial Government, for expressing their opposition to New Roman Imperium's actions. I would also like to thank Aynia Moreaux for Caer Sidi's decision that no refuge should be given to the individuals responsible.

Separately, I would also like to thank some of our traditional enemies for their comments on the subject. Forum destruction, however small, and hate speech are truly despicable practices that should be opposed by all. Everyone, regardless of potential differences, should be able to understand that.

Okay, thank you for the call-out Onder. I told you that the incident would be discussed, the clear reason being the severity described in your administrative dispatch was not equal to the severity we were led to believe the issue to be. Bad faith antics by you and your accomplices is exactly why we were so willing to open this embassy in the first place. It is no secret that after our “splintering” from the LKE, you took minor issues during that time period and made mountains out of molehills in order to damage our region and the reputation of the players behind it. These effects still lingering to this day. I’m still waiting for the proof that I leaked from the LKE forums. So I’m very sorry that we don’t take everything that is posted by your government as fact and that we are sympathetic to those we believed were wronged by you.
Bad faith antics to this day, like this stupid call-out. I have much better things to do than pen this out during my workday.

But my disdain for you and tirade over, it seems you are actually in the right, this time.

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open due to your bad faith antics, but the discussion was actually finished this morning, the embassy will close.

Forum destruction is as always reprehensible, but transphobia and hate speech is intolerable. The founding members of the New Roman Imperium are rather young and I saw them as impressionable, I had hoped that we would have been able to help them develop as a region and improve themselves to be better players and not repeat the spamming and destruction of history. But, once hate and transphobia have set in, there is little we can do except hope they improve themselves for the better.

I welcome your decision to close the embassy now, but I am sorry to see that your reply here consists of pettiness rather than a sense of regret. You thought wrongly and without any proof to the contrary that the LKE had somehow "wronged" them and that this excused acts of forum destruction. This could not be further from the truth. The LKE did indeed receive an attack on its forums and witness some ugly incidents on the Discord server involving the individuals mentioned in our statement.

It is the height of irony that you accuse the LKE of "bad faith antics" while you are willing to sympathise with New Roman Imperium, after its behaviour towards the LKE and our members, in an effort to take vengeance on the LKE. That alone says much about the morality of Mare Nostrum.

[The Notorious Mad Jack]

Considering the LKE's history, I'm not sure why anyone reacting with scepticism when LKE says anything - and when the person reacting doesn't have all the information - is something that's noteworthy.

It's obviously very sad that this happened, and if anyone in LKE could provide the discord ids of those in question, I will ensure they are banned from TNP's discord servers immediately. There should be no safe haven for those who destroy our offsite properties.

[Onderkelkia]

Considering the LKE's history, I'm not sure why anyone reacting with scepticism when LKE says anything - and when the person reacting doesn't have all the information - is something that's noteworthy.

First, there are often factual disputes between many regions over gameplay matters. You might suggest that that is particularly true of the LKE or me as an individual. I might argue that better describes you and some of the organizations you have previously been involved in. There is a distinction between the existence of such disputes and the LKE being an unreliable source when it comes to out-of-character matters. I am not aware of any credible allegation that the LKE has ever been untruthful in relation to allegations of forum destruction, rules-breaking, or any other OOC matters or such against any region. IC and OOC matters are not comparable.

Second, New Roman Imperium admitted intentionally destroying a significant amount of content on the LKE's forums in this thread. In his conversation with me that Salvarity referred to above, Salvarity confirmed that he had read that thread before opening embassies with New Roman Imperium.

The first reply in that thread happened to be:

If I'm not mistaken, the core group of this region is none other than the group that did massive damage to the LKE's forums right? If so, you won't find this a very welcoming place. Forum and history destruction is not something mainstream GP tolerates.

That was the understanding and reaction of the Delegate of 10000 Islands - hardly a region favourably inclined to the LKE.

The next post was by South Reinkalistan, one of the perpetrators, admitting: "Ah, yes. This was a travesty that all of the nations who partook in the act regret." Further down, Daarwyrth, a former LKE member, posted confirming the event: "As a former member of the LKE who left because of the behaviour of the aforementioned people, I can confirm that such a thing indeed happened."

If someone has read that, you would think that New Roman Imperium's own admission and Daarwyrth's evidence would give grounds to stay away for any reasonable observer. Unfortunately, deciding to avoid New Roman Imperium was not The Empire of Mare Nostrum's reaction to reading that discussion.

I don't want to get bogged-down debating the rights and wrongs of Mare Nostrum's actions, but it was reasonable for the LKE to refer in our statement to the embassy they were then still constructing with New Roman Imperium. Moreover, the excuses being put forward for their decision are obvious nonsense. It is good that Mare Nostrum is now de-constructing the embassy they built, but this defence (of their initial decision to open the embassy) is absurd.

It's obviously very sad that this happened, and if anyone in LKE could provide the discord ids of those in question, I will ensure they are banned from TNP's discord servers immediately. There should be no safe haven for those who destroy our offsite properties.

Thank you.

[Salvarity]

I don't know how you have the bare-faced gall to accuse the LKE of "bad faith antics" when you behave like this. Before these events, I hoped for better.

I mean, do we need to go over the entire preceding year. Is it that surprising that I don't think your group acts in good faith?

It is the height of irony that you accuse the LKE of "bad faith antics" while you are willing to sympathise with New Roman Imperium, after its behaviour towards the LKE and our members, in an effort to take vengeance on the LKE. That alone says much about the morality of Mare Nostrum.

Please don't attempt to lecture me on morality John, Onder has ground stand on, you really don't.

I don't want to get bogged-down debating the rights and wrongs of Mare Nostrum's actions, but it was reasonable for the LKE to refer in our statement to the embassy they were then still constructing with New Roman Imperium. Moreover, the excuses being put forward for their decision are obvious nonsense. It is good that Mare Nostrum is now de-constructing the embassy they built, but this defence (of their initial decision to open the embassy) is absurd.

I presented justification as a response to your call-out. You dismissing them as absurd and obvious nonsense doesn't mean they are any less valid.

But this is an exercise in futility, I say X, you think X is bullshit and say Y, I think Y is bullshit and this continues forever. The embassy will close, my condolences to the LKE for the loss of history and the damage done to your off-site property.

[Fooooooooo]

Okay, thank you for the call-out Onder. I told you that the incident would be discussed, the clear reason being the severity described in your administrative dispatch was not equal to the severity we were led to believe the issue to be. Bad faith antics by you and your accomplices is exactly why we were so willing to open this embassy in the first place. It is no secret that after our “splintering” from the LKE, you took minor issues during that time period and made mountains out of molehills in order to damage our region and the reputation of the players behind it. These effects still lingering to this day. I’m still waiting for the proof that I leaked from the LKE forums. So I’m very sorry that we don’t take everything that is posted by your government as fact and that we are sympathetic to those we believed were wronged by you.
Bad faith antics to this day, like this stupid call-out. I have much better things to do than pen this out during my workday.

But my disdain for you and tirade over, it seems you are actually in the right, this time.

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open due to your bad faith antics, but the discussion was actually finished this morning, the embassy will close.

Forum destruction is as always reprehensible, but transphobia and hate speech is intolerable. The founding members of the New Roman Imperium are rather young and I saw them as impressionable, I had hoped that we would have been able to help them develop as a region and improve themselves to be better players and not repeat the spamming and destruction of history. But, once hate and transphobia have set in, there is little we can do except hope they improve themselves for the better.

The Realm of Balder is pleased to note that Mare Nostrum are in the process of closing their embassy with the New Roman Imperium. It is regrettable, however, that the embassy was opened - and may have remained open - for gameplay reasons in spite of the clear and unacceptable OOC actions of the senior members of the New Roman Imperium.

The malicious forum destruction and despicable, hateful transphobic speech should never, ever be tolerated anywhere in NationStates, or anywhere else for that matter. Such things should certainly not be overlooked or ignored for gameplay reasons, or to score a hit against regional enemies.

Indeed, using this situation to launch a tirade against the LKE, and using it as a platform to pick at old wounds strikes us as deeply inappropriate in light of the incidents in question.

However, as I have stated, we are pleased to see that the embassy is being closed. We believe this is the right course of action in light of the situation, and hope that all regions can now focus on ensuring the perpetrators of these deeply unpleasant OOC incidents are brought to justice.

[Onderkelkia]

I don't know how you have the bare-faced gall to accuse the LKE of "bad faith antics" when you behave like this. Before these events, I hoped for better.

I mean, do we need to go over the entire preceding year. Is it that surprising that I don't think your group acts in good faith?

I would refer you to my previous reply on this very issue:

Firstly, the (entirely factually correct) allegations made by the LKE against your region related to in-character matters. There is clearly a distinction between the two categories of behaviour. Just because there are differences between the LKE and your region on gameplay issues is no reason for you to be inclined to sympathise either those with who have committed acts of forum destruction or those who have posted inappropriate content on our forums.
Secondly, you may regard the issues in the LKE-Mare Nostrum dispute as making "mountains out of molehills", but that is not our view or feeling at all.

You can rest assured that I have precisely the same perception of your organisation and the flagrant dishonesty of its in-character activities over the past year - a perception on my part probably more strongly-held than yours I would wager. However, that is about gampelay political disagreements.

In any case, given the posts and indeed the confession in New Roman Imperium's embassy, I would think that you had more than the LKE's word to go on.

I am sorry to see this attempt to drag gameplay political differences into this as a supposed reason for disbelieving what happened.

Please don't attempt to lecture me on morality John, Onder has ground stand on, you really don't.

The Prime Minister made a reasonable point.

This is not about your grievances from LKE party politics anymore than it is about your grievances about the relations between our regions.

I don't want to get bogged-down debating the rights and wrongs of Mare Nostrum's actions, but it was reasonable for the LKE to refer in our statement to the embassy they were then still constructing with New Roman Imperium. Moreover, the excuses being put forward for their decision are obvious nonsense. It is good that Mare Nostrum is now de-constructing the embassy they built, but this defence (of their initial decision to open the embassy) is absurd.

I presented justification as a response to your call-out. You dismissing them as absurd and obvious nonsense doesn't mean they are any less valid.

But this is an exercise in futility, I say X, you think X is bullshit and say Y, I think Y is bullshit and this continues forever. The embassy will close, my condolences to the LKE for the loss of history and the damage done to your off-site property.

You ignore the preceding explanation I gave indicating specifically why your line of argument does not stand up to scrutiny.

I quote my previous point, which illustrates what you were aware was publicly admitted and independently corroborated:

Second, New Roman Imperium admitted intentionally destroying a significant amount of content on the LKE's forums in this thread. In his conversation with me that Salvarity referred to above, Salvarity confirmed that he had read that thread before opening embassies with New Roman Imperium.

The first reply in that thread happened to be:

If I'm not mistaken, the core group of this region is none other than the group that did massive damage to the LKE's forums right? If so, you won't find this a very welcoming place. Forum and history destruction is not something mainstream GP tolerates.

That was the understanding and reaction of the Delegate of 10000 Islands - hardly a region favourably inclined to the LKE.

The next post was by South Reinkalistan, one of the perpetrators, admitting: "Ah, yes. This was a travesty that all of the nations who partook in the act regret." Further down, Daarwyrth, a former LKE member, posted confirming the event: "As a former member of the LKE who left because of the behaviour of the aforementioned people, I can confirm that such a thing indeed happened."

If someone has read that, you would think that New Roman Imperium's own admission and Daarwyrth's evidence would give grounds to stay away for any reasonable observer. Unfortunately, deciding to avoid New Roman Imperium was not The Empire of Mare Nostrum's reaction to reading that discussion.

I don't want to get bogged-down debating the rights and wrongs of Mare Nostrum's actions, but it was reasonable for the LKE to refer in our statement to the embassy they were then still constructing with New Roman Imperium. Moreover, the excuses being put forward for their decision are obvious nonsense. It is good that Mare Nostrum is now de-constructing the embassy they built, but this defence (of their initial decision to open the embassy) is absurd.

[Cormactopia Prime]

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open

Uh...

For all the damage you've accused The LKE of doing to EMN, you're doing far more right now. This non-apology "we'll close the embassy, but screw you" thing is ludicrous. The fact the embassy opened at all is inexcusable. You're an 8+ year gameplayer, you weren't born yesterday. You know better than all this.

[Daarwyrth]

The spite in me wants to keep the embassy open

Uh...

For all the damage you've accused The LKE of doing to EMN, you're doing far more right now. This non-apology "we'll close the embassy, but screw you" thing is ludicrous. The fact the embassy opened at all is inexcusable. You're an 8+ year gameplayer, you weren't born yesterday. You know better than all this.

I don't mean to judge Mare Nostrum of course for how they handled the embassy-question, but I would have expected them to do a more thorough background check as to whom they're entering into a partnership with. Especially since the events of 17th August became fairly quickly public knowledge over the forums here, as the matter was publicized by LKE and other unaffiliated individuals. Nonetheless, the most important fact is that they closed the embassy now, especially in light of the transphobic and hate-speech stance from the leadership of New Roman Empire.

[Philip of Burgundy]

The Kingdom of the Holy Roman Empire offers the LKE our sincere condolences on what their members and their offsite property were put through by these miscreants. There was a debate on whether to accept them when an embassy request was lodged however a gut instinct told me to say no, and fortunately the others listened and their embassy request was rejected. This region and anyone inhabiting it will not find solace on our shores until a new group of natives take up residence and the individuals who participated in this form of "trolling" to put it lightly are proven to be gone on a permanent basis from the region.

[Darkesia]

TWP's forum has been secured against the proven Forum Destroyers/Vandals indicated above as is and has been our standard response to all COPS Treaty violators.

[Westwind]

I am sorry to hear the LKE community has suffered the incidents on their offsite venues. As a COPS Treaty signatory, Equilism's forum has been secured accordingly. There is no quarter given for forum vandalism.

[Armaros]

Best of luck to the LKE moving forward.

[Todd McCloud]

All the best.

[Novae Romae]

(Image)

A Statement on the Incident that took place on The Land of Kings and Emperors Forum and Discord Server on August 17th

---

From: Office of the Prime Minister, Number 27 Layton Street, The Rt. Honourable the Lord Salis KOR KOO COA COF LS CDSE SWC BSC EC

Published: 25th of August 2019

---

The Imperial Government wishes to provide notification of a serious incident affecting the Imperial Forums and the LKE Regional Discord server on the morning of August 17th. Three junior members of the government abused their moderator powers on the Imperial Forums to alter and destroy content. In place of the previously existing content, in a number of cases they inserted highly inappropriate and offensive content. Simultaneously its members spammed insulting and inappropriate messages on the LKE Discord server.

The three perpetrators of this incident were Edgar Jorgmund Kjærsgaard III (also known as Droiden), Sarkos Tunchix IV (also known as South Reinkalistan) and Adrian Willzhelm (also known as Greater Bastion). In subsequently seeking to justify their actions, these members and their sympathisers complained about what they perceive as restrictive moderation policies on the LKE Discord. This followed occasions where the members concerned and their associates had been warned over a number of matters, including offensive comments and inappropriate jokes, advertising for non-LKE servers and the excessive use of profanities on our Discord server. In addition to the administrative team, multiple ordinary members of the LKE had been offended and disturbed by their behaviour, with some members even leaving to avoid them. The LKE's administrative team is under an obligation to ensure that the LKE is a safe and welcoming community. In taking action to sanction such conduct, the LKE's moderation approach was at all times reasonable and proportionate. In any case, even if our moderation policies were too severe, vandalising the LKE's forums could still only be considered unacceptable.

Immediately following the incident, the members concerned shamelessly bragged about their behaviour on our regional message board, making a number of offensive posts suppressed by the NationStates moderators. They then created a temporary region called the "Placeholder Land of Placeholders", in which they were joined by a number of their close associates and friends including Novae Romae and Asurmenia. Very shortly after this group established New Roman Imperium as their new region.

In a gameplay thread created by New Roman Imperium soon after, its members subsequently sought to donwplay their region's connection to the above events. Without referring to his own major role in the incident, Sarkos Tunchix IV/South Reinkalistan described what happened as "a travesty that all of the nations who partook in the act regret". This lacks all credibility. Within the 15-nation region of New Roman Imperium, Edgar Jorgmund Kjærsgaard III/Droiden is the World Assembly Delegate, Adrian Willzhelm/Greater Bastion is Minister of Regional Affairs and Sarkos Tunchix IV/South Reinkalistan is Minister of Internal Security. As well as holding high office, all three individuals are integral members of the core group which co-founded the region directly after they destroyed content and vandalised the LKE forums. In the immmediate aftermath, all its members were fully aware of what had transpired. Yet they all chose to set up a new region with these three individuals as core members. Far from being a distinct entity, New Roman Imperium is effectively a continuation of the political party and role-play group comprising the members of the LKE who defected to New Roman Imperium. The party was led by Adrian Willzhelm/Greater Bastion.

On any objective standard, New Roman Imperium has the purpose and effect of supporting the three individuals who left and were banned from the LKE after they destroyed our content and posted inappropriate content on our platforms. The region provides shelter for those individuals without any period of banishment or exclusion, elevating them directly to the highest offices. New Roman Imperium holds a high degree of corporate responsibility for the events of August 17th. The LKE accordingly will not allow any player in New Roman Imperium to reside within our region. In view of their conduct, we also request that other regions decline to open relations with New Roman Imperium if they are approached with a request do so.

We note with great disappointment that a small number of regions have already initiated construction of in-game embassies with New Roman Imperium, despite public discussion of the circumstances in the Gameplay forum and the wide audience gained by the dispatch released by our chief administrator. The regions forming in-game embassies with New Roman Imperium include The Empire of Mare Nostrum, another region which splintered from the LKE (but by comparison did not destroy content or post inappropriate content while doing so). The destruction of forum content represents a threat to the off-site infrastructure of all NationStates regions and communities. Especially so soon after the incident concerned, the LKE believes that the systematic destruction of content and posting of inappropriate content should not be overlooked and dismissed, regardless of any gameplay disagreements which might exist.

In response to the Statement by the Imperial Government of the LKE

August 27, 2019|Tuesday

As Emperor of the New Roman Imperium i feel it is necessary to respond to this with a level of civility that was not shown by the NRI's members on this incident's date.

I was not able to see the entire incident myself, nor was i involved in anyway with the incident, as i was asleep during all of it, that part will become important later. I did however hear from the members themselves that did participate in the incident and were the perpetrators of it, them being the aforementioned Sarkos Tunchix (South Reinkalistan or SR), Leif Kjsaersgaard (Droiden), and Adrian Willzhelm (Greater Bastion). Let me make myself very clear right now, i do not support their actions, even though these are my friends, i do not condone in any way what they have done to the LKE, especially it's Discord and Off-Site Forums which require a lot of hard work and effort to work on. It is horrid and does deserve to be mentioned.

The members mentioned' involvement was already accurate as described by the Lord Salis, so instead i shall give my point of view regarding the incident, but first, i will preface it with this notice: I was not there during it, nor took part in any way with it. I was asleep during the incident so i cannot provide a side to that part, however i will describe to the point from when i woke up to when the New Roman Imperium was established.

When i woke up i found myself to be removed from the discord, and found out that something had happened over night when i was sleeping. So, i essentially invited myself back into the discord to get an answer for why i was removed. It turned out that i was removed simply for another member merely mentioning my name and saying, on my behalf, whilst i was sleeping mind you, that i was going to join them in leaving. I was removed because someone else said something about me when i showed no signs of leaving in the first place. I was removed without a way to defend myself other than inviting myself back into the discord. So, needless to say this was upsetting to me, i was a loyal member of the LKE, i truly was, i had no intentions of leaving until that point. Hell, i was a member of the LKE Estates Commons, of course i had loyalty.

At this point i am discussions with my friends, some of them unfortunately being the perpetrators. I had plans before this incident of one day leaving the LKE and starting my own Roman-based/inspired region on NationStates. I felt that now was, for better or worse, the right time to do it. So, after going to the Placeholder region mentioned, i made the New Roman Imperium, a name i had chosen long ago for it.

I am the creator of this region, not Adrian or anyone else, i hold the authority in it, not anyone else. That cannot be stated more clearly nor can it be more important that it is stated in the first place. It is also NOT a continuation of the political party that was present in the LKE, rather, this is my own region which i have allowed some members from that party to be apart of. Therefore, i'd like to say that any action against the NRI is an action punishing me for something i had no part in doing, and does not affect those people mentioned, rather it affects someone who's only crime is leaving the LKE with those members.

However, in response i have already taken the following actions, I have removed all three from public office, and i shall take the world assembly delegate position by the next WA update. They will have no authority on the RMB and i am working offsite to take the appropriate actions as well. They are regretful of their actions, but actions speak louder than words and i have taken such action to give some rectification for the incident and it's victims.

I ask you all not to punish the entire basket for a few bad eggs, not to punish my region which i am passionate about for the actions of a few members. If you wish not to join my region for that i understand, truly i do, but please, let us move past this, let us not punish those who were sleeping through the incident and pin it on the region.


With regards,

[Great Robertia]

In response to the Statement by the Imperial Government of the LKE

August 27, 2019|Tuesday

As Emperor of the New Roman Imperium i feel it is necessary to respond to this with a level of civility that was not shown by the NRI's members on this incident's date.

I was not able to see the entire incident myself, nor was i involved in anyway with the incident, as i was asleep during all of it, that part will become important later. I did however hear from the members themselves that did participate in the incident and were the perpetrators of it, them being the aforementioned Sarkos Tunchix (South Reinkalistan or SR), Leif Kjsaersgaard (Droiden), and Adrian Willzhelm (Greater Bastion). Let me make myself very clear right now, i do not support their actions, even though these are my friends, i do not condone in any way what they have done to the LKE, especially it's Discord and Off-Site Forums which require a lot of hard work and effort to work on. It is horrid and does deserve to be mentioned.

The members mentioned' involvement was already accurate as described by the Lord Salis, so instead i shall give my point of view regarding the incident, but first, i will preface it with this notice: I was not there during it, nor took part in any way with it. I was asleep during the incident so i cannot provide a side to that part, however i will describe to the point from when i woke up to when the New Roman Imperium was established.

When i woke up i found myself to be removed from the discord, and found out that something had happened over night when i was sleeping. So, i essentially invited myself back into the discord to get an answer for why i was removed. It turned out that i was removed simply for another member merely mentioning my name and saying, on my behalf, whilst i was sleeping mind you, that i was going to join them in leaving. I was removed because someone else said something about me when i showed no signs of leaving in the first place. I was removed without a way to defend myself other than inviting myself back into the discord. So, needless to say this was upsetting to me, i was a loyal member of the LKE, i truly was, i had no intentions of leaving until that point. Hell, i was a member of the LKE Estates Commons, of course i had loyalty.

At this point i am discussions with my friends, some of them unfortunately being the perpetrators. I had plans before this incident of one day leaving the LKE and starting my own Roman-based/inspired region on NationStates. I felt that now was, for better or worse, the right time to do it. So, after going to the Placeholder region mentioned, i made the New Roman Imperium, a name i had chosen long ago for it.

I am the creator of this region, not Adrian or anyone else, i hold the authority in it, not anyone else. That cannot be stated more clearly nor can it be more important that it is stated in the first place. It is also NOT a continuation of the political party that was present in the LKE, rather, this is my own region which i have allowed some members from that party to be apart of. Therefore, i'd like to say that any action against the NRI is an action punishing me for something i had no part in doing, and does not affect those people mentioned, rather it affects someone who's only crime is leaving the LKE with those members.

However, in response i have already taken the following actions, I have removed all three from public office, and i shall take the world assembly delegate position by the next WA update. They will have no authority on the RMB and i am working offsite to take the appropriate actions as well. They are regretful of their actions, but actions speak louder than words and i have taken such action to give some rectification for the incident and it's victims.

I ask you all not to punish the entire basket for a few bad eggs, not to punish my region which i am passionate about for the actions of a few members. If you wish not to join my region for that i understand, truly i do, but please, let us move past this, let us not punish those who were sleeping through the incident and pin it on the region.


With regards,
(Image)

While you cannot and should not be punished for the events during the 17th of August, you can't fault people for questioning and condemning your decision to let these individuals into the government of your new region in its aftermath. By then, as per your own admission, you were fully aware of what had been done. Nonetheless, you allowed the perpetrators to become key figures in your region. This lapse of judgement suggests to me that you were supportive of it at the time only to go back on your opinion after the public backlash hit you. Because it needs to be highlighted that until today and this post, they have been in your region's leadership at your behest. While you may not have been present during the events of the 17th of August, you have effectively put your stamp of approval onto it until now. Yet I wonder if you'd have done the same if it hadn't been for the public backlash, which makes me question your sincerity in condemning the actions of the perpetrators. Furthermore, I also don't see you make a mention of the transphobic attitudes and hate-speech that have been expressed by these people in the LKE Discord chat, which leaves me wondering what your stance on that is currently. Can a person identifying as trans or LGBT enter the New Roman Imperium safely? Can they feel comfortable there and at home?

While it is very good you have opted to remove the perpetrators of the 17th of August events from power, you have made a grave error by letting them take those positions in the first place. Once you were aware of what they had done, you should have kept them out of leadership positions in the New Roman Imperium, if only out of decency. Despite your belated condemnation now, your stamp of approval on the behaviour of the perpetrators was placed and as I said before, I wonder if you would have removed that figurative stamp if it hadn't been for the public backlash on the forums.

Nonetheless, I wish you good luck with your region. It's not going to be easy to restore your region's reputation, because through several successive errors it has been badly damaged. It is only my hope that time will allow you to grow and "heal" as it were, but this is a stain that will be very difficult to wash out, especially if the people in question will remain present in your region.

[Novae Romae]

In response to the Statement by the Imperial Government of the LKE

August 27, 2019|Tuesday

As Emperor of the New Roman Imperium i feel it is necessary to respond to this with a level of civility that was not shown by the NRI's members on this incident's date.

I was not able to see the entire incident myself, nor was i involved in anyway with the incident, as i was asleep during all of it, that part will become important later. I did however hear from the members themselves that did participate in the incident and were the perpetrators of it, them being the aforementioned Sarkos Tunchix (South Reinkalistan or SR), Leif Kjsaersgaard (Droiden), and Adrian Willzhelm (Greater Bastion). Let me make myself very clear right now, i do not support their actions, even though these are my friends, i do not condone in any way what they have done to the LKE, especially it's Discord and Off-Site Forums which require a lot of hard work and effort to work on. It is horrid and does deserve to be mentioned.

The members mentioned' involvement was already accurate as described by the Lord Salis, so instead i shall give my point of view regarding the incident, but first, i will preface it with this notice: I was not there during it, nor took part in any way with it. I was asleep during the incident so i cannot provide a side to that part, however i will describe to the point from when i woke up to when the New Roman Imperium was established.

When i woke up i found myself to be removed from the discord, and found out that something had happened over night when i was sleeping. So, i essentially invited myself back into the discord to get an answer for why i was removed. It turned out that i was removed simply for another member merely mentioning my name and saying, on my behalf, whilst i was sleeping mind you, that i was going to join them in leaving. I was removed because someone else said something about me when i showed no signs of leaving in the first place. I was removed without a way to defend myself other than inviting myself back into the discord. So, needless to say this was upsetting to me, i was a loyal member of the LKE, i truly was, i had no intentions of leaving until that point. Hell, i was a member of the LKE Estates Commons, of course i had loyalty.

At this point i am discussions with my friends, some of them unfortunately being the perpetrators. I had plans before this incident of one day leaving the LKE and starting my own Roman-based/inspired region on NationStates. I felt that now was, for better or worse, the right time to do it. So, after going to the Placeholder region mentioned, i made the New Roman Imperium, a name i had chosen long ago for it.

I am the creator of this region, not Adrian or anyone else, i hold the authority in it, not anyone else. That cannot be stated more clearly nor can it be more important that it is stated in the first place. It is also NOT a continuation of the political party that was present in the LKE, rather, this is my own region which i have allowed some members from that party to be apart of. Therefore, i'd like to say that any action against the NRI is an action punishing me for something i had no part in doing, and does not affect those people mentioned, rather it affects someone who's only crime is leaving the LKE with those members.

However, in response i have already taken the following actions, I have removed all three from public office, and i shall take the world assembly delegate position by the next WA update. They will have no authority on the RMB and i am working offsite to take the appropriate actions as well. They are regretful of their actions, but actions speak louder than words and i have taken such action to give some rectification for the incident and it's victims.

I ask you all not to punish the entire basket for a few bad eggs, not to punish my region which i am passionate about for the actions of a few members. If you wish not to join my region for that i understand, truly i do, but please, let us move past this, let us not punish those who were sleeping through the incident and pin it on the region.


With regards,
(Image)

While you cannot and should not be punished for the events during the 17th of August, you can't fault people for questioning and condemning your decision to let these individuals into the government of your new region in its aftermath. By then, as per your own admission, you were fully aware of what had been done. Nonetheless, you allowed the perpetrators to become key figures in your region. This lapse of judgement suggests to me that you were supportive of it at the time only to go back on your opinion after the public backlash hit you. Because until today and this post, they have been in your region's leadership at your behest. While you may not have been present during the events of the 17th of August, you have effectively put your stamp of approval onto it until now. Yet I wonder if you'd have done the same if it hadn't been for the public backlash, which makes me question your sincerity in condemning the actions of the perpetrators. Furthermore, I also don't see you make a mention of the transphobic attitudes and hate-speech that have been expressed by these people in the LKE Discord chat, which leaves me wondering what your stance on that is currently. Can a person identifying as trans or LGBT enter the New Roman Imperium safely? Can they feel comfortable there and at home?

While it is very good you have opted to remove the perpetrators of the 17th of August events, you have made a grave error by letting them take those positions in the first place. Once you were aware of what they had done, you should have kept them out of leadership positions in the New Roman Imperium, if only out of decency. Despite your belated condemnation now, your stamp of approval on the behaviour of the perpetrators was placed and as I said before, I wonder if you would have removed that figurative stamp if it hadn't been for the public backlash on the forums.

Nonetheless, I wish you good luck with your region. It's not going to be easy to restore your region's reputation, because through several successive errors it has been badly damaged. It is only my hope that time will allow you to grow and "heal" as it were, but this is a stain that will be very difficult to wash out.

I do not give any approval to the perpetrators and i am regretful and frankly ashamed that they were ministers in my government. Nevertheless, i cannot change the past, only the present to affect the future. And this decision was in thinking before the statement of myself and the LKE.

Also, i am LGBT myself, Pansexual, so of course anyone of the LGBT community are welcome and fully appreciated. Those "transphobic" comments were comments addressing Gender Dsyphoria and it's status as a mental illness, nothing more and nothing less.

[Great Robertia]

While you cannot and should not be punished for the events during the 17th of August, you can't fault people for questioning and condemning your decision to let these individuals into the government of your new region in its aftermath. By then, as per your own admission, you were fully aware of what had been done. Nonetheless, you allowed the perpetrators to become key figures in your region. This lapse of judgement suggests to me that you were supportive of it at the time only to go back on your opinion after the public backlash hit you. Because until today and this post, they have been in your region's leadership at your behest. While you may not have been present during the events of the 17th of August, you have effectively put your stamp of approval onto it until now. Yet I wonder if you'd have done the same if it hadn't been for the public backlash, which makes me question your sincerity in condemning the actions of the perpetrators. Furthermore, I also don't see you make a mention of the transphobic attitudes and hate-speech that have been expressed by these people in the LKE Discord chat, which leaves me wondering what your stance on that is currently. Can a person identifying as trans or LGBT enter the New Roman Imperium safely? Can they feel comfortable there and at home?

While it is very good you have opted to remove the perpetrators of the 17th of August events, you have made a grave error by letting them take those positions in the first place. Once you were aware of what they had done, you should have kept them out of leadership positions in the New Roman Imperium, if only out of decency. Despite your belated condemnation now, your stamp of approval on the behaviour of the perpetrators was placed and as I said before, I wonder if you would have removed that figurative stamp if it hadn't been for the public backlash on the forums.

Nonetheless, I wish you good luck with your region. It's not going to be easy to restore your region's reputation, because through several successive errors it has been badly damaged. It is only my hope that time will allow you to grow and "heal" as it were, but this is a stain that will be very difficult to wash out.

Those "transphobic" comments were comments addressing Gender Dsyphoria and it's status as a mental illness, nothing more and nothing less.

Based on how those comments were phrased and the condemnation from the LKE Leadership that followed in light of the words used in those comments, I vehemently disagree with you.

[Novae Romae]

Those "transphobic" comments were comments addressing Gender Dsyphoria and it's status as a mental illness, nothing more and nothing less.

Based on how those comments were phrased and the condemnation from the LKE Leadership that followed in light of the words used in those comments, I vehemently disagree with you.

The approximate wording of the comments based on the member who said them's memory. I wish the full transcript could be given but due to memory it cannot.

"I said that I believed people who suffer from gender dysphoria happen to never be satisfied with themselves, and gender dysphoria often brings more mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and whatnot
Depression and anxiety being very awful things
I believe we should do our best to help
And cure people who suffer from gender dysphoria
So they don't suffer and don't go through depression, which often leads to suicide
I believe we can save those people"

This was said in the discord, at a time in which i was also away attending to personal matters, and was before the incident itself. The person who said these things did not say it out of spite or transphobia, rather it was interpreted as such due a person being considerably offended by them, and thus leaving the region.

I understand you may or may not believe, i understand that, but that is the best i can provide to show what was said. I asked the person who said it to provide what he said since i can't access the actual conversation itself.

[Great Robertia]

Based on how those comments were phrased and the condemnation from the LKE Leadership that followed in light of the words used in those comments, I vehemently disagree with you.

The approximate wording of the comments based on the member who said them's memory. I wish the full transcript could be given but due to memory it cannot.

"I said that I believed people who suffer from gender dysphoria happen to never be satisfied with themselves, and gender dysphoria often brings more mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and whatnot
Depression and anxiety being very awful things
I believe we should do our best to help
And cure people who suffer from gender dysphoria
So they don't suffer and don't go through depression, which often leads to suicide
I believe we can save those people"

This was said in the discord, at a time in which i was also away attending to personal matters, and was before the incident itself. The person who said these things did not say it out of spite or transphobia, rather it was interpreted as such due a person being considerably offended by them, and thus leaving the region.

I understand you may or may not believe, i understand that, but that is the best i can provide to show what was said. I asked the person who said it to provide what he said since i can't access the actual conversation itself.

Luckily I have screenshots from the entire conversation and can share them here right now, if you wish. The approximate wording you have conveyed in your post does not align with the actual commentary made in the chat.

[Novae Romae]

The approximate wording of the comments based on the member who said them's memory. I wish the full transcript could be given but due to memory it cannot.

"I said that I believed people who suffer from gender dysphoria happen to never be satisfied with themselves, and gender dysphoria often brings more mental health issues such as depression, anxiety, and whatnot
Depression and anxiety being very awful things
I believe we should do our best to help
And cure people who suffer from gender dysphoria
So they don't suffer and don't go through depression, which often leads to suicide
I believe we can save those people"

This was said in the discord, at a time in which i was also away attending to personal matters, and was before the incident itself. The person who said these things did not say it out of spite or transphobia, rather it was interpreted as such due a person being considerably offended by them, and thus leaving the region.

I understand you may or may not believe, i understand that, but that is the best i can provide to show what was said. I asked the person who said it to provide what he said since i can't access the actual conversation itself.

Luckily I have screenshots from the entire conversation and can share them here right now, if you wish. The approximate wording you have conveyed in your post does not align with the actual commentary made in the chat.

Please share them. Everyone should see the truth, whether negative or positive. Also, i was referring to comments made my Atticus Versalius, of Asurmenia, prior to August 17.

[Great Robertia]

Luckily I have screenshots from the entire conversation and can share them here right now, if you wish. The approximate wording you have conveyed in your post does not align with the actual commentary made in the chat.

Please share them. Everyone should see the truth, whether negative or positive.

https://imgur.com/a/g2PK44f

https://imgur.com/a/bsuaeeK

https://imgur.com/a/SnJAkas

https://imgur.com/a/0gvhRLM

https://imgur.com/a/uI42cnm

https://imgur.com/a/Jhdd2Lp

https://imgur.com/a/7QGP4PI

https://imgur.com/a/WlMRfOX

These are the main words uttered that rightfully sparked outrage and received condemnation. As I am currently not on my PC now, this is the best I can do in regards to screenshots. I can provide the full conversations in the morning.

The language in some of the comments can be expletive, mind you.

[Novae Romae]

Please share them. Everyone should see the truth, whether negative or positive.

https://imgur.com/a/0gvhRLM

https://imgur.com/a/uI42cnm

https://imgur.com/a/Jhdd2Lp

https://imgur.com/a/7QGP4PI

https://imgur.com/a/WlMRfOX

These are the main words uttered that rightfully sparked outrage and received condemnation. As I am currently not on my PC now, this is the best I can do in regards to screenshots. I can provide the full conversations in the morning.

The language in some of the comments can be expletive, mind you.

Thank you for providing them at least, it does give some context to both the LKE's statements and my own.