Embassy of the South Pacific

[King Nephmir II]

Disappointing. And here I was hoping something exciting would happen. Glad to see the old and stale power back in the place it rightfully belongs. (You know, the one that purged the former government to originally take power).

[Unibot III]

The Coalition has been Restored. Elections will be held for a new Cabinet. Long live the Coalition, and Long live the South Pacific.

Hear, hear, Resentine. Fantastic.

[North East Somerset]

I think Hileville had some good initial points regarding the shortcomings of Administration on the old TSP forums, and he actually had significant and widespread sympathy on that.

But executing a purge of his enemies whilst simultaneously telling people he was in good faith negotiations with them shook his credibility, and ever since then he has been digging a hole for himself.

[Belschaft]

Hile was right that forum administration in TSP had become politicized, and I supported his forum move. He went too far by abolishing the Coalition however, and I was trying to get him to back down right up to him calling it quits.

[Aigyptos]

Congratulations to the Coalition and its foreign supporters, particularly The North Pacific, for restoring a regime that is crippled by dysfunction and toxicity, and has been for years. A great day for the South Pacific, indeed.

[Tsunamy]

Certainly, Wolf. I'm waiting until just now -- after what, 13 years? -- to show that I'm power hungry.

If I really wanted power, wouldn't it have been easier to do it when I was delegate? Not wait until now?

Your past performance does not justify your current ambitions. That's false logic if I've ever seen it.

If you are truly pure in intentions, then why did you break off negations and unilaterally, and illegally, declare yourself Vice-Delegate? That's just as bad as anything the Transitional Government is doing and just as destabilizing to the region.

I didn't unilaterally break off negotiations, it just took me several days to fully come out against this.

As soon as we restore the government, we're going to push ahead with a Constitutional Convention while leaving the current Charter in tact. The same thing I asked Hile to do on Saturday.

[Aigyptos]

As soon as we restore the government, we're going to push ahead with a Constitutional Convention while leaving the current Charter in tact. The same thing I asked Hile to do on Saturday.

A constitutional convention with the same toxic people running the show, which is likely to only patch the Charter instead of actually replacing it, which is what TSP desperately needs. Let's not mince words: TSP is doomed to years more toxicity and dysfunction because of Scylla's actions, and yours, and anyone who supported restoration of the Coalition. Again: Congratulations.

[Unibot III]

As soon as we restore the government, we're going to push ahead with a Constitutional Convention while leaving the current Charter in tact. The same thing I asked Hile to do on Saturday.

The Charter states, though, that a Great Council can only be convened every six months - so shouldn't a major overhaul wait until April 10 (ish?)? If you're convening a "Constitutional Convention" - that seems like an illegal move to get around not convening a "Great Council". Unless of course the problematic law (Article 10.2) is changed before the Great Council begins.

One thing I do agree with Cormac on is that given the rush of players coming to TSP right now, a panic-striken Constitutional Convention is likely to be an emotional and political gong show - and the outcome may not be particularly helpful. Following the Charter properly here and deferring a Great Council until April would add a much needed saucer underneath a hot cup of tea. Bearing in mind, many of the issues with the Charter stem from the poor additions of the Great Council of 2013 which not so incidentally coincided with the panic Post-Milograd. I'd hate to see TSP make the same mistake again.

This doesn't mean citizens shouldn't start to think of how the constitution could be changed to be better and how the region's political systems could be better balanced and organized - but doing it in a rush just after a small civil war (basically) doesn't seem wise - those ideas will take some time to formulate properly.

[Aigyptos]

As soon as we restore the government, we're going to push ahead with a Constitutional Convention while leaving the current Charter in tact. The same thing I asked Hile to do on Saturday.

The Charter states, though, that a Great Council can only be convened every six months - so shouldn't a major overhaul wait until April 10 (ish?)? If you're convening a "Constitutional Convention" - that seems like an illegal move to get around not convening a "Great Council". Unless of course the problematic law (Article 10.2) is changed before the Great Council begins.

One thing I do agree with Cormac on is that given the rush of players coming to TSP right now, a panic-striken Constitutional Convention is likely to be an emotional and political gong show - and the outcome may not be particularly helpful. Following the Charter properly here and deferring a Great Council until April would add a much needed saucer underneath a hot cup of tea. Bearing in mind, many of the issues with the Charter stem from the poor additions of the Great Council of 2013 which coincided with the panic Post-Milograd. I'd hate to see TSP make the same mistake again. This doesn't mean citizens shouldn't start to think of how the constitution could be changed to be better and how the region's political systems could be better balanced and organized - but doing it in a rush just after a small civil war (basically) doesn't seem wise - those ideas will take some time to formulate properly.

That was emphatically not what I said or meant, so no, you don't agree with me. Following the Charter until April is just a sure way to ensure that absolutely nothing changes for the better in TSP, because in a few months the urgency and thus the will to make significant change will be gone, and TSP's power players will once again be firmly entrenched.

I don't think there's anything the Coalition can do to improve TSP because the Coalition is a dead husk filled with toxic waste. But waiting certainly isn't going to improve anything.

[Kringalia]

Bearing in mind, many of the issues with the Charter stem from the poor additions of the Great Council of 2013 which not so incidentally coincided with the panic Post-Milograd.

Unless I am mistaken, that Great Council took place prior to, and during the early stages of, the Milograd Coup. One of the main arguments against the SPSR was the fact that a Council had been taking place, so reform was not as impossible as Milograd claimed.

[Unibot III]

Following the Charter until April is just a sure way to ensure that absolutely nothing changes for the better in TSP, because in a few months the urgency and thus the will to make significant change will be gone, and TSP's power players will once again be firmly entrenched.

I don't think there's anything the Coalition can do to improve TSP because the Coalition is a dead husk filled with toxic waste. But waiting certainly isn't going to improve anything.

I don't agree at all; there's broad agreement among even some of the most conservative members of TSP that the Charter is flawed and some systematic and big changes will need to be made. That support for change won't evaporate in a few weeks. I'm speaking from some experience as a former TSP Chair - doing a constitutional convention right now would be a painful comedy show where the joke is on TSP - the job would be rushed and the ideas half-baked, compromises would be reached enthusiastically but not critically because everybody wants to put this conflict behind them as quickly as possible.

But doing a rushed job just sets the region up for more problems.

A better process would be to call for a Great Council to begin in April now via an Assembly Resolution - and also through the same resolution, encourage citizens to begin discussing and debating what they want in the new constitutional system. That way, TSP is debating and brainstorming new stuff for a good long while before the Great Council begins; but it also sets a date which is important too. Drafting a comprehensive proposal or even a set of competing proposals to redraft the constitution will take the better half of the Spring, in my experience.

(EDIT: And I didn't mean to add words to your mouth, sorry.)

Unless I am mistaken, that Great Council took place prior to, and during the early stages of, the Milograd Coup. One of the main arguments against the SPSR was the fact that a Council had been taking place, so reform was not as impossible as Milograd claimed.

I didn't mean "Post-Milograd" as in "Post-SPSR" - I meant Post-Milograd as in Post-legitimate-delegate-Milograd, "in the wake of Milograd's coup" etc. Sorry.

[Louis XIVs Europe]

Given that a whole large group of people in TSP were willing to risk a lot to create new forums, it might be prudent for the players who pushed them to such lengths to resign. If such tensions existed then obviously something was wrong with the management. Admins and mods in my opinion should work for the people not against them on NS off site forums.

[Wolf]

Given that a whole large group of people in TSP were willing to risk a lot to create new forums, it might be prudent for the players who pushed them to such lengths to resign. If such tensions existed then obviously something was wrong with the management. Admins and mods in my opinion should work for the people not against them on NS off site forums.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. In fact, I predict the opposite.

Remember the post-Operation Brave Toaster flip-out and unneeded crack down? Turn that up to 11, multiply by 10, and then double down.

Of course that's just going to encourage discontent among the government, but if TSP had already learned that lesson from the times before, we would be having this conversation because there wouldn't have been a minor Civil War.

All we can hope for is that I'm wrong.

[Aigyptos]

Given that a whole large group of people in TSP were willing to risk a lot to create new forums, it might be prudent for the players who pushed them to such lengths to resign. If such tensions existed then obviously something was wrong with the management. Admins and mods in my opinion should work for the people not against them on NS off site forums.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. In fact, I predict the opposite.

Remember the post-Operation Brave Toaster flip-out and unneeded crack down? Turn that up to 11, multiply by 10, and then double down.

Of course that's just going to encourage discontent among the government, but if TSP had already learned that lesson from the times before, we would be having this conversation because there wouldn't have been a minor Civil War.

All we can hope for is that I'm wrong.

Exactly this. Nothing will improve in TSP, mark my words. Not with the same dysfunctional government manipulated by the same toxic cohort that was manipulating it before.

[Valrifell]

Someone owes me money.

This coup was lame. Weaksauce. I DEMAND MORE.

[Federation of the Resentine Kingdom]

Someone owes me money.

This coup was lame. Weaksauce. I DEMAND MORE.

Well, I don't know the Exchange rate from TSP Dollars to Drama Llamas, so.... Especially because I don't use Drama Llamas.

[Todd McCloud]

To sum up the events in TSP over the past 1-2 weeks:

1. The cabinet decides to move the forums and change administrators after some funny business on the old forums. We'll call them "New Forum Crowd"
2. The other side counters by declaring this move illegal. We'll call these people "Old Forum Crowd"
3. New Forum Crowd counters by illegally disbanding the Charter and calls for writing up new laws while at the same time removing some Old Forum Crowd folks.
4. Old Forum Crowd counters by illegally declaring a state of emergency and holding CSS meetings.
5. New Forum Crowd counters by splitting up and not knowing what to do.
6. Old Forum Crowd counters by declaring a new delegate and vice delegate
7. New Forum Crowd counters by selecting member who is banned under the Old Forum Crowd to run the delegate nation.
8. The member who was banned by the Old Forum Crowd restores order for the Old Forum Crowd

Is that about it? After reading all of this and noting it took a little over ten days for this to completely come full circle, I hope TSP will:

1. Realize their laws are in dire need of reform
2. Change their administrative team, which sparked this in the first place
3. Maybe have a beer or two to calm down.

[Ever-Wandering Souls]

To sum up the events in TSP over the past 1-2 weeks:

1. The cabinet decides to move the forums and change administrators after some funny business on the old forums. We'll call them "New Forum Crowd"
2. The other side counters by declaring this move illegal. We'll call these people "Old Forum Crowd"
3. New Forum Crowd counters by illegally disbanding the Charter and calls for writing up new laws while at the same time removing some Old Forum Crowd folks.
4. Old Forum Crowd counters by illegally declaring a state of emergency and holding CSS meetings.
5. New Forum Crowd counters by splitting up and not knowing what to do.
6. Old Forum Crowd counters by declaring a new delegate and vice delegate
7. New Forum Crowd counters by selecting member who is banned under the Old Forum Crowd to run the delegate nation.
8. The member who was banned by the Old Forum Crowd restores order for the Old Forum Crowd

Is that about it? After reading all of this and noting it took a little over ten days for this to completely come full circle, I hope TSP will do the right thing and (a) realize their laws are in dire need of reform, (b) change their administrative team, which sparked this in the first place, and (c) maybe have a beer or two to calm down.

So basically both sides acted poorly, and neither could act efficiently without breaking the law?

Sounds like some new leadership is needed. And some new laws.

[The Grim Reaper]

Given that a whole large group of people in TSP were willing to risk a lot to create new forums, it might be prudent for the players who pushed them to such lengths to resign. If such tensions existed then obviously something was wrong with the management. Admins and mods in my opinion should work for the people not against them on NS off site forums.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. In fact, I predict the opposite.

Remember the post-Operation Brave Toaster flip-out and unneeded crack down? Turn that up to 11, multiply by 10, and then double down.

You could have just said x22. Multiply by 1.1, then 10, then double it.

[Knot II]

You could have just said x22. Multiply by 1.1, then 10, then double it.

That's a less edgy way of going about it.

Anyways, how unfortunate this one was no fun. Perhaps the next will have more fireworks.

[Icecream Princess]

Another thing that has irked me is how unoriginal naming has been lately. Wouldn't it have been cooler if this had been called civil war or flower wars or something? Got to have some pizzazz!

[Glen-Rhodes]

For the record:

1. The Coalition was preparing to vote on a self-repealing Charter amendment that would vacate the rogue Cabinet and appoint a new temporary one. That's where DM as Delegate and Tsu as VD comes in.

2. The State of Emergency wasn't illegal. The CSS can issue one when a delegate goes rogue or missing. This legally means the VD becomes Acting Delegate, and they have to consult the CSS on everything. With Hileville in power, the state of emergency was feckless, yes. But with DM and Tsu made Del and VD via Charter amendment, the state of emergency becomes much more meaningful, especially if DM was banjected. It was also a symbolic declaration, because it's not as if the CSS can do much else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ambroscus Koth]

For the record:

1. The Coalition was preparing to vote on a self-repealing Charter amendment that would vacate the rogue Cabinet and appoint a new temporary one. That's where DM as Delegate and Tsu as VD comes in.

2. The State of Emergency wasn't illegal. The CSS can issue one when a delegate goes rogue or missing. This legally means the VD becomes Acting Delegate, and they have to consult the CSS on everything. With Hileville in power, the state of emergency was feckless, yes. But with DM and Tsu made Del and VD via Charter amendment, the state of emergency becomes much more meaningful, especially if DM was banjected. It was also a symbolic declaration, because it's not as if the CSS can do much else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nothin' quite like declaring that things are true before voting on 'em, right?

[RiderSyl]

For the record:

1. The Coalition was preparing to vote on a self-repealing Charter amendment that would vacate the rogue Cabinet and appoint a new temporary one. That's where DM as Delegate and Tsu as VD comes in.

2. The State of Emergency wasn't illegal. The CSS can issue one when a delegate goes rogue or missing. This legally means the VD becomes Acting Delegate, and they have to consult the CSS on everything. With Hileville in power, the state of emergency was feckless, yes. But with DM and Tsu made Del and VD via Charter amendment, the state of emergency becomes much more meaningful, especially if DM was banjected. It was also a symbolic declaration, because it's not as if the CSS can do much else.

Oh god, are you still going to be an authority figure in TSP?
It's like they've learned nothing.

[Scyllaland]

One thing's for sure...
Nobody on either side gives a damn about TSP law anymore.

Also, again on Scyllaland's "change of heart"... Unfortunately, due to my experience with the collapse of TBR, controversies in DEN, and being in 'real life', I've seen many written, emotional documents where positions are changing and friendships (or more) are in danger. I'm pretty damn experienced in it, to be perfectly honest.

And Scylla's statement seems genuine, until you get into to where he just can't support Hile's behavior anymore, and that's he's racked with this... what was it... "grief"? It's forced. Scylla is changing sides for a reason, that much is clear. The fact he's trying to imitate Kazmr's very real separation from Milograd in the Lazarus coup is bullshit, though, and garners no sympathy from me.

I'll give Tsu and company the benefit of the doubt right now, and assume this is Scylla unnecessarily trying to save face while flipping sides.

I don't know who Kazmr is. I know nothing about the Milograd coup.

Let's be clear here - I wasn't around for any of that.

Why would I be trying to imitate anyone?

I'm not trying to save face. I'm explaining my actions.

As soon as we restore the government, we're going to push ahead with a Constitutional Convention while leaving the current Charter in tact. The same thing I asked Hile to do on Saturday.

A constitutional convention with the same toxic people running the show, which is likely to only patch the Charter instead of actually replacing it, which is what TSP desperately needs. Let's not mince words: TSP is doomed to years more toxicity and dysfunction because of Scylla's actions, and yours, and anyone who supported restoration of the Coalition. Again: Congratulations.

It's great to see people screaming hell-fire and apocalypse. We will see change. There's no way we won't. If things don't change, history will repeat itself. No one wants that.

Given that a whole large group of people in TSP were willing to risk a lot to create new forums, it might be prudent for the players who pushed them to such lengths to resign. If such tensions existed then obviously something was wrong with the management. Admins and mods in my opinion should work for the people not against them on NS off site forums.

I wouldn't say resignation is necessary. My original reasons for supporting the move and SPTG/Constitutional Convention remain the same. Those individuals working towards changing that which caused the conflict is what's needed. Whether they resign after that is neither here nor there - but acknowledging those issues and working to solve them for the better of TSP is what is needed.