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Embassy of the South Pacific

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The North Polish Union
Senator
 
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Founded: Nov 13, 2012
Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Mon Jun 02, 2014 9:08 pm

With this discussion going on, I just thought I'd point out the irony in the fact that Hileville is the OP of this thread. :P
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.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Mon Jul 21, 2014 11:44 am

Image

TSP and TRR Ratify Historic Treaty


On July 14, 2014, the Assembly of the Coalition of The South Pacific ratified a treaty with The Rejected Realms, who subsequently ratified it themselves on July 21, 2014. Treaty negotiations began in early May and the treaty was presented to the Assembly on June 26, 2014.

The treaty, titled “Treaty of Friendship and Amity”, is a major milestone in the burgeoning partnership between our two regions. Our two regions have had a strenuous relationship under previous administrations, but have experienced a great level of cooperation and friendliness, thanks to work of the Rejected Realms Army, the South Pacific Special Forces, and both regions’ leadership.

The treaty is fundamentally a mutual defense agreement. Both The South Pacific and The Rejected Realms believe that, as fellow Game-Created Regions, we should show respect for GCR sovereignty. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs made clear during the Assembly ratification debate that a direct attack on any GCR is a line that cannot be crossed, and that TSP would stand with its fellow GCRs.

In addition to mutual defense, the treaty creates guidelines for military cooperation and cultural exchanges. Borrowing from the existing treaty between The South Pacific and Europeia, the TSP-TRR treaty ensures that both regions can commit to the military operations they wish, and that meeting at opposite ends of a military mission would not be automatically viewed as hostility. TSP believes that treating military activity in a mature and reasonable way will ultimately make our military forces better and our relationship stronger.

This momentous occasion can serve as an example to many. If our two regions can overcome their long history of a rocky relationship, in order to provide for our mutual security, then it is possible for all GCRs to do the same. Pan-GCR security is not a dead idea or an unworkable behemoth. Through bilateral treaties such as this, we can all work together and achieve lasting peace and security.

Below is the full text of the treaty:

Treaty of Peace and Amity

Preamble.


The South Pacific and The Rejected Realms, endeavoring to promote the ideals of unity and peace among Game-Created Regions, ensure good relations and cooperation between our two great regions, and recognize the legitimate governments of each other, have agreed to the following Treaty of Peace and Amity.

Article I. Mutual Recognition of Government Legitimacy.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty recognize the government of each region, based upon its constitutions and laws, as legitimate, and will not extend that recognition to any government that comes to power through means not prescribed by law, which shall be determined by the legitimate government in question.

Section 2. Should the government of either party fundamentally change, but not violate the terms of the previous section, the parties may adopt a memorandum of understanding extending the provisions of this treaty to the new government.

Article II. Non-Aggression.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty vow neither to attack the home region of the other party nor participate in any action with the intent to overthrow their legitimate government.

Section 2. Both parties will refrain from conspiring, either directly or through a third party, to destabilize or overthrow the legitimate government of either party.

Section 3. Both parties will refrain from conducting clandestine operations, espionage, or other forms of spying against either party.

Section 4. Both parties will, in good faith, report any known threat or concern related to the other party's security, to the appropriate security organs.

Article III. Mutual Defense.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty may seek assistance for their self-defense by lodging an official request with the appropriate officials.

Section 2. Both parties agree to aid each other against attempts to illegally overthrow the in-game Delegate of their respective home regions.

Section 3. All other requests for aid will be considered on a case-by-case basis, and subject to Article V's conditions.

Article IV. Cultural Exchange and Cooperation.

The parties to this treaty will endeavor to conduct communal cultural activities, to the benefit of the people of both parties, and to strengthen the institutions of peace and liberty.

Article V. Cooperation on Military Affairs.

Section 1. The parties to this treaty agree to work with each other, from time to time, and as circumstances permit, on mutually beneficial military operations, including training missions and confidence-building measures.

Section 2. In pursuing cooperation in military operations, both parties agree that participation on the opposite sides of a military engagement do not automatically constitute hostility or an attack on either party.

Section 3. Both parties agree to keep classified any information regarding military affairs, and only publish that information in a manner mutually agreed upon.

Section 4. Both parties agree to share intelligence as circumstances permit.

Article VI. Peaceful Settlement of Disputes.

The parties to this treaty undertake to settle any and all disputes between them through peaceful means and to refrain from using the threat of force or sanction against one another while this treaty is in force.

Article VII. Deposit and Clarification of Terms.

Section 1. This treaty shall be deposited in a publicly accessible area of the community forums of both parties.

Section 2. The parties to this treaty may, from time to time, clarify the terms of this treaty through memorandums of understanding, which shall be posted alongside the treaty.

Article VIII. Suspension of Terms and Termination of the Treaty.

Section 1. Either party may suspend the terms of the treaty, if the other party has materially breached its terms, until such a time that both parties peacefully settle the dispute and adopt a memorandum of understanding that the treaty is again in force.

Section 2. Either party may terminate the treaty with five days notice, posted publicly in the forum of deposit in both regions, after which the terms of treaty are no longer binding on either party.

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Unibot III
Negotiator
 
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Founded: Mar 11, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Unibot III » Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:50 pm

Thanks for posting, Glen. It was a pleasure working with you during the negotiations. I hope the relationship between our two regions continues to flourish. It's been very satisfying to see that the treaty receive such a remarkable threshold of support in both our regions, after all of the hours we put into the negotiations and drafting.

Long live the Coalition! Long live TRR!
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but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
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with the best of intentions.
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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:21 am

Image

2014 July General Election Results!


The Coalition of The South Pacific has just finished up its latest election, with the Election Commissioner release much-awaited results in what became a surprisingly competitive election. The election started on July 14 and ended on July 23, with results announced this morning.

Here are the results:

Delegate & Vice-Delegate
Candidates run on a joint ticket

  • Kringalia/Arbiter08: 24
  • Re-Open Nominations: 5

Minister of Regional Affairs

  • ProfessorHenn: 22
  • Re-Open Nominations: 6

Chair of the Assembly

  • God-Emperor: 13
  • Unibot: 14
  • Re-Open Nominations: 3

Minister of the Army

  • QuietDad: 25
  • Re-Open Nominations: 4

Minister of Foreign Affairs

  • Belschaft: 11
  • The Republic of Zinnwaldite: 1
  • Sandaoguo: 15
  • The Solar System Scope: 1
  • Re-Open Nominations: 1
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Venico
Ambassador
 
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Founded: Mar 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Venico » Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:38 am

Sad to see GE lose, but the best of luck to everyone taking office and may you lead the region into glory.
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Karpathos
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Karpathos » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:13 am

The people of Karpathos send their sincere condolences to TSP along with a bottle of Advil to the assembly of TSP. We also would like to present quietdad with some depends. :p
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[spoiler]So long as there is imperialism in the world, a permanent peace is impossible.
[/spoiler]
Aperi is Aperi.

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Topid
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:48 am

And the people of Topid send their condolences to Unibot. ;)
AKA Weed

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Cormac A Stark
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1034
Founded: Jul 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac A Stark » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:55 am

The people of Cormac A Stark send their condolences to the two previous posters on the sad occasion of their continued butthurt.

I mean, really.

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Topid
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 29, 2008
Capitalizt

Postby Topid » Thu Jul 24, 2014 10:57 am

:lol: Fair enough. On a positive note, super glad to see QD back!
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Karpathos
Diplomat
 
Posts: 790
Founded: Jan 02, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Karpathos » Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:12 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:The people of Cormac A Stark send their condolences to the two previous posters on the sad occasion of their continued butthurt.

I mean, really.



Looks like someone got a good look at some of my RL pictures. Down boy. :rofl:
Honor Guard to Black adder's cunning plan
The Emmanuel Goldstein of Osiris
Veteran of The Great Patriotic War & the ADN proxy wars
Last Native of Greece
Foremer RLA Red Guard
Former head if he USSR KGB
Forner member of SECO
Froner Lt. in The DEN
[spoiler]So long as there is imperialism in the world, a permanent peace is impossible.
[/spoiler]
Aperi is Aperi.

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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:33 pm

Statement from the Cabinet of the South Pacific
on The New Inquisition


It has been disappointing for the Cabinet to find out that The New Inquisition had unilaterally withdrawn from our Treaty. We believe that this was an unnecessary course of action, but respect their right to make it, as outlined within the Treaty itself. We also wish to make clear that this turn of events was not entirely surprising to us, despite our best hopes that it could be avoided through diplomacy and better communications.

When the Cabinet submitted the Treaty with the Rejected Realms for debate in our Assembly, it was made clear that we did not seek to antagonise The New Inquisition and respected their right to declare war on other regions according to their interests. However, we also made it clear that a violation of the sovereignty of Game Created Regions was unacceptable to us and contrary to our interests as a region, regardless of our relationship with the Rejected Realms.

The New Inquisition mentioned in its statement two specific concerns that had contributed to their withdrawal from our Treaty, namely behaviour of Sandaoguo as Minister of Foreign Affairs and of Geomania as Minister of the Army. In terms of the former, we wish to uphold the longstanding commitment of the South Pacific to free speech for all its citizens, including those that serve in various positions in our government. Our officials have every right to speak their minds as private citizens as long as their behaviour does not affect the discharge of their duties. We do not believe that Sandaoguo has behaved inappropriately when dealing with The New Inquisition in his official capacity as Minister of Foreign Affairs.

In terms of the second concern, it relates to the behaviour of former Minister of the Army Geomania during the mission to liberate Liberal Haven. Geomania skilfully united defenders and imperialists in the common goal of liberating a region held by Nazis. The Cabinet finds itself taken aback by the accusations of unprofessionalism, when it was the South Pacific Special Forces who convinced the United Imperial Armed Forces and the Founderless Regions Alliance to work together. Following the liberation of Liberal Haven, OnderKelkia, the military commander of The New Inquisition, berated Geomania for granting an interview to The Rejected Times. This incident and each prior communication, which was in itself rare and occasional, left the Cabinet with a feeling that The New Inquisition considered us a junior partner in the alliance. The Cabinet sent an official complaint to The New Inquisition and the United Imperial Armed Forces regarding OnderKelkia’s behaviour. We were told by both that the issue would be looked into, with no apology or even a response as of today.

It would be a mistake to believe that the breakdown of this alliance was caused exclusively by the ratification of the Treaty Between the South Pacific and the Rejected Realms. The alliance had been weakening for a very long time, as communication dwindled to nothing and military cooperation became rare. We remain committed to an independent foreign policy and disagree with the assertion that we made it impossible for the alliance with The New Inquisition to continue. We acknowledge their decision and wish them success in their future endeavours.

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Christopher Bishop
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Founded: Sep 21, 2012
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Postby Christopher Bishop » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:59 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Following the liberation of Liberal Haven, OnderKelkia, the military commander of The New Inquisition, berated Geomania for granting an interview to The Rejected Times. This incident and each prior communication, which was in itself rare and occasional, left the Cabinet with a feeling that The New Inquisition considered us a junior partner in the alliance. The Cabinet sent an official complaint to The New Inquisition and the United Imperial Armed Forces regarding OnderKelkia’s behaviour. We were told by both that the issue would be looked into, with no apology or even a response as of today.

As Joint Commander of UIAF, I was listed in as 'CCed' in a message from TSP's Cabinet which was addressed to the Kaiser of TNI.

It was not addressed to me and I've no authority over Onder. So your claim that the UIAF told you this would be looked into is wrong. I didn't reply.

I did read the complaint though and it can only be described as total nonsense. Geomania approached Onder, not the other way round, having heard that Onder had expressed concerns about his conduct to Kringalia and Onder politely (perhaps too much so given his actions) explained our policy, namely that UIAF operations should not be discussed in interviews with enemy outlets. Onder also explained his concern about Geomania failing to notify me of the FRA's intention to 'liberate' LH after I'd agreed an operation to do that with TSP, for which Geomania acknowledged he was in the wrong and apologised.

The conversation ended with Geomania telling Onder that he 'appreciate[d] your candor on the matter'. Nothing at all to complain about.

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Venico
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Founded: Mar 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Venico » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:03 pm

So raiders now have open season on TSP again?
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I Am Guy Fawkes
Civil Servant
 
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Founded: Jul 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby I Am Guy Fawkes » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:08 pm

Venico wrote:So raiders now have open season on TSP again?


Did they ever not?

Or did this weird politics thing prevent it from happening?

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Venico
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Founded: Mar 28, 2013
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Postby Venico » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:22 pm

Most raiders wouldn't attack TSP because it would force a conflict between TNI (A strong ally of many raiders) and the piling force. So it kind of went untouched. Just like how LWU's treaty with Laz kept them protected until it was repealed. No one wants to force conflicts within our own sphere and every raider wants to coup a GCR once or twice in their day.

There's a sort of list of viable GCRs you can hit based on treaties and which are raider/imperialist. I mean, I don't mind adding another to the list, it's just weird for me. =P
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Malice Never Dies...

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Glen-Rhodes
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Founded: Jun 25, 2008
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Postby Glen-Rhodes » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:28 pm

Christopher Bishop wrote:It was not addressed to me and I've no authority over Onder. So your claim that the UIAF told you this would be looked into is wrong. I didn't reply.

You're the Joint Commander of the UIAF. Onder is an Associate Commander. Unless these ranks mean nothing, you did have the ability to talk to Onder and tell him to watch what he says. Given that it was a UIAF mission that triggered the specific communication we complained about, you were definitely in a position to issue a personal apology -- even a fake one -- on behalf of Onder.

An ally made a formal complaint regarding the behavior of an operative. Do we really think the right way to go about that is to just not respond?

Christopher Bishop wrote:Geomania approached Onder, not the other way round, having heard that Onder had expressed concerns about his conduct to Kringalia and Onder politely (perhaps too much so given his actions) explained our policy, namely that UIAF operations should not be discussed in interviews with enemy outlets.

Onder may believe that he was being polite, and certainly he spoke in his signature emotionless way, but that is now how it was taken by Geomania. He posted in TSP's private Cabinet office with the thread titled, "I was berated on Skype by Onder Kelkia." There was a reason Geomania felt berated --- Onder approached Geomania with no tact whatsoever. It was not a conversation among equals, but a scolding by TNI/UIAF.

Geomania was told he shouldn't speak to The Rejected Times about the UIAF, with Onder specifically mentioning Unibot as a reason. It's incredibly inappropriate for an ally to demand control over to whom their treaty party may speak. That was made clear in our complaint, which to this day never received a response besides "we'll look into it." Onder even specifically complained about an innocuous statement I made. The take-away of the entire conversation being that members of TSP's government shouldn't communicate with TRT or participate in their threads. It was inappropriate. We said so. We didn't get a response, not even a fake apology.

Christopher Bishop wrote:The conversation ended with Geomania telling Onder that he 'appreciate[d] your candor on the matter'.

That's because Geomania knows how to act in a diplomatic manner.

All that being said, the Liberal Haven incident was not the sole cause of tension between TSP and TNI. We had a few other instances, like we mentioned in the statement. Particularly, every time there was any official communication, we came away feeling talked down to, like TNI viewed us a junior partner. For me personally, one instance that rubbed me the wrong way was when Onder kept telling us what was in our regional interests, in the context of TSP working with more defender regions. (Onder obviously of the position that it was in our interests to not work with defenders, and instead to work with raiders and imperialists.) The breakdown of communication happened a little chunks. The Liberal Haven incident was merely the last one.

Venico wrote:So raiders now have open season on TSP again?

The Cabinet has been working hard for several terms to boost TSP's defenses, so that we are not reliant upon any single ally for our own security.
Last edited by Glen-Rhodes on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Kringalia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 819
Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kringalia » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:39 pm

Christopher Bishop wrote:Geomania approached Onder, not the other way round, having heard that Onder had expressed concerns about his conduct to Kringalia and Onder politely (perhaps too much so given his actions) explained our policy, namely that UIAF operations should not be discussed in interviews with enemy outlets.

The South Pacific does not take orders from anyone. OnderKelkia had no right whatsoever to control who we talked to, and that conduct was more insulting considering it came from a supposed ally.
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Cormac A Stark
Ambassador
 
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac A Stark » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:48 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:
Venico wrote:So raiders now have open season on TSP again?

The Cabinet has been working hard for several terms to boost TSP's defenses, so that we are not reliant upon any single ally for our own security.

The South Pacific currently has a treaty with Kantrias and Balder, imperialist regions, as well.

I don't personally think raiders should regard it as "open season" on The South Pacific or other non-aligned Feeders. Aside from being personally opposed to it, as a politician in an imperialist region it seems incredibly shortsighted, to me, to perpetrate a coup against any Feeder or Sinker just for the hell of it and thus push it and potentially others toward defenderism. If the treaty with The New Inquisition was all that was protecting The South Pacific from raiders, that's rather alarming.

Of course neither the TNI treaty nor any other treaty protected TSP from Durk or Mall last year, so the effect any treaty has in restraining raiders may be a bit exaggerated.
Last edited by Cormac A Stark on Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Capitalist Paradise

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:52 pm

I Am Guy Fawkes wrote:
Venico wrote:So raiders now have open season on TSP again?


Did they ever not?

Or did this weird politics thing prevent it from happening?
Oh no, we can't metagame with POLITICS around!

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Venico
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Founded: Mar 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Venico » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:56 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:Of course neither the TNI treaty nor any other treaty protected TSP from Durk or Mall last year, so the effect any treaty has in restraining raiders may be a bit exaggerated.


It brought the UIAF crashing in and kept raiders out from the pile. Blame the RPers for that one, not raiders.
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Cormac A Stark
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Founded: Jul 24, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac A Stark » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:00 pm

Venico wrote:
Cormac A Stark wrote:Of course neither the TNI treaty nor any other treaty protected TSP from Durk or Mall last year, so the effect any treaty has in restraining raiders may be a bit exaggerated.


It brought the UIAF crashing in and kept raiders out from the pile. Blame the RPers for that one, not raiders.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that UIAF didn't help with the liberation last year. I was referring to Durk and Mall choosing to share Milograd's nation during the coup, despite TSP having a treaty alliance with TNI.

Durk may not be considered a raider (?), but Mall certainly is.

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The Grim Reaper
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 10526
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
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Postby The Grim Reaper » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:01 pm

Venico wrote:Blame the RPers for that one, not raiders.


It's just politics.
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Christopher Bishop
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Founded: Sep 21, 2012
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Postby Christopher Bishop » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:03 pm

Glen-Rhodes wrote:You're the Joint Commander of the UIAF. Onder is an Associate Commander. Unless these ranks mean nothing, you did have the ability to talk to Onder and tell him to watch what he says. Given that it was a UIAF mission that triggered the specific communication we complained about, you were definitely in a position to issue a personal apology -- even a fake one -- on behalf of Onder.

1. As I said, it wasn't addressed to me, so no, it wasn't my 'position' to issue an apology, 'fake' or otherwise. I assumed it was for information.

2. Associate Comamnder is a sort of honorary position (not a rank) given to Onder, NES and Cere, the former JCs. As for ranks, Onder's a Field Marshal, same as me, and more to the point he's one of three IMC members. They hired me and each can individually veto my orders and personnel decisions.

3. If you're complaining about him as Commander of TNIAF, which is what the message said, it's not a UIAF matter anyway. TNIAF's their business.

Glen-Rhodes wrote:An ally made a formal complaint regarding the behavior of an operative. Do we really think the right way to go about that is to just not respond?

The complaint was CCed to me, not addressed to me. Your post above said the UIAF told 'the issue would be looked into'. I never said that. You lied.

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Onder may believe that he was being polite, and certainly he spoke in his signature emotionless way, but that is now how it was taken by Geomania. He posted in TSP's private Cabinet office with the thread titled, "I was berated on Skype by Onder Kelkia." There was a reason Geomania felt berated --- Onder approached Geomania with no tact whatsoever. It was not a conversation among equals, but a scolding by TNI/UIAF.

Honestly, I've seen the chat logs you sent. You couldn't misrepresent them more if you tried. Onder was direct but polite in a conversation Geomania requested. For information, I put the in a spoiler for those who want to see the actual account of what happened:
[6:55:52 PM] geox158: good evening
[6:56:17 PM] Onder Kelkia: Greetings
[6:56:37 PM] geox158: I heard you were upset with my actions?
[6:57:43 PM] Onder Kelkia: Indeed yes
[6:58:10 PM] Onder Kelkia: In particular, the fact you are discussing the details of discussions with UIAF military officials in a media outlet, in particular one run by an FRA region and edited by Unibot.
[6:58:33 PM] Onder Kelkia: As well as the fact the UIAF was not notified when you became aware that the FRA were planning to act in Liberal Haven
[6:58:41 PM] geox158: UIAF looks very good in this
[6:59:16 PM] geox158: And while Dyr came to me proposing to liberate Liberal Haven, he never gave me a specific date
[6:59:30 PM] geox158: Should I have told you and Christopher Bishop?
[6:59:42 PM] geox158: Yes, I regret that oversight
[6:59:54 PM] geox158: but it was not some attempt at subterfuge
[7:00:55 PM] geox158: And the article did not reveal any sensitive information about the UIAF
[7:02:30 PM] Onder Kelkia: It's more the fact that our affairs should not be discussed with the FRA, especially in the context of their propaganda (which is what TRR Times is), than the sensitivity of the information in question.
[7:02:53 PM] Onder Kelkia: And the extent to which the UIAF look good depends how it looks.
[7:03:52 PM] geox158: Onder, I'm sorry but I did not reveal anything sensitive in the interview
[7:04:06 PM] Onder Kelkia: As I have said, it is not the issue of sensitivity
[7:04:13 PM] Onder Kelkia: It is more the fact that the UIAF was the subject of a discussion with an FRA region's media outlet
[7:04:41 PM] Onder Kelkia: When precisely did you learn of the FRA's intended operation may I ask?
[7:04:44 PM] geox158: umm
[7:04:54 PM] geox158: probably Thursday?
[7:05:13 PM] geox158: My one mistake here was not alerting you guys about it
[7:05:30 PM] geox158: but they never gave me a straight time for a liberation
[7:05:42 PM] Onder Kelkia: A fairly significant issue, because whereas normally we'd have wanted to discuss how to proceed, the issue was left to Bishop to decide on the update
[7:06:02 PM] geox158: I did not know that the FRA had intended to liberate Tuesday
[7:06:07 PM] geox158: because they did not tell me
[7:06:22 PM] geox158: It was an oversight on my part
[7:06:33 PM] geox158: And you do deserve an apology
[7:06:35 PM] geox158: For that I am sorry
[7:06:44 PM] geox158: However
[7:07:35 PM] geox158: I find your objection to my interview to be based on poor ground
[7:09:02 PM] Onder Kelkia: The UIAF's affairs should not be discussed with an FRA newspaper.
[7:09:20 PM] geox158: What, information that easily could have been found publicly?
[7:10:37 PM] Onder Kelkia: It is the principle of the matter, rather than the sensitivity of the information. We are at war with the FRA.
[7:11:27 PM] Onder Kelkia: And comments like 'were huge concerns' about the UIAF's conduct in relation to the FRA, ' I understand why defenders would have a hard time with people working with raiders being a longtime Commander of the RRA' (especially when the UIAF are not raiders) etc., do not necessarily look good for us.
[7:11:41 PM] Onder Kelkia: Not that anything published in TRR Times ever looks good to us.
[7:11:46 PM] Onder Kelkia: It is an FRA propaganda magazine.
[7:13:06 PM] Onder Kelkia: Although it is far from just you
[7:13:07 PM] Onder Kelkia: viewtopic.php?p=20093097#p20093097
[7:13:18 PM] Onder Kelkia: G-R 'Geomania did an excellent job of getting the FRA and the UIAF to work together on this mission'
[7:13:34 PM] Onder Kelkia: Yes, the UIAF and the FRA worked together, and yes the UIAF did so in the greater good
[7:13:42 PM] Onder Kelkia: However, the circumstances in which that came about were not good
[7:14:26 PM] geox158: Which I have already apologized for
[7:14:32 PM] geox158: It was a basic thing that I should have reported
[7:14:41 PM] Onder Kelkia: Thank you for acknowledging that
[7:14:49 PM] Onder Kelkia: I'm not saying this is a major problem or anything
[7:15:01 PM] Onder Kelkia: I was merely pointing out that as a matter of protocol all these issues could have been handled a lot better.
[7:15:08 PM] geox158: Thank you
[7:15:13 PM] geox158: i appreciate your candor on the matter

Glen-Rhodes wrote:Geomania was told he shouldn't speak to The Rejected Times about the UIAF, with Onder specifically mentioning Unibot as a reason. It's incredibly inappropriate for an ally to demand control over to whom their treaty party may speak. That was made clear in our complaint, which to this day never received a response besides "we'll look into it." Onder even specifically complained about an innocuous statement I made. The take-away of the entire conversation being that members of TSP's government shouldn't communicate with TRT or participate in their threads. It was inappropriate. We said so. We didn't get a response, not even a fake apology.

Onder was right. Allies shouldn't discuss our military affairs, public or private, with their allies' enemies' propaganda media. That's fairly obvious.I think 'innocuous' pretty much sums up Onder politely telling you that.

There's nothing like the UIAF seeking 'control over to whom their treaty party may speak' or saying 'members of TSP's government shouldn't communicate with TRT' in Onder's conversation with Geomania. You're just making this up, as anyone who reads the conversation above can see for themselves. Onder's complaints were about Geomania, having done a joint op with the UIAF, speaking to UIAF's enemies about it.

Glen-Rhodes wrote:That's because Geomania knows how to act in a diplomatic manner.

Onder was just as diplomatic. See right before that remark of Geo's:


[7:14:41 PM] Onder Kelkia: Thank you for acknowledging that
[7:14:49 PM] Onder Kelkia: I'm not saying this is a major problem or anything
[7:15:01 PM] Onder Kelkia: I was merely pointing out that as a matter of protocol all these issues could have been handled a lot better.
[7:15:08 PM] geox158: Thank you
[7:15:13 PM] geox158: i appreciate your candor on the matter


Kringalia wrote:
Christopher Bishop wrote:Geomania approached Onder, not the other way round, having heard that Onder had expressed concerns about his conduct to Kringalia and Onder politely (perhaps too much so given his actions) explained our policy, namely that UIAF operations should not be discussed in interviews with enemy outlets.

The South Pacific does not take orders from anyone. OnderKelkia had no right whatsoever to control who we talked to, and that conduct was more insulting considering it came from a supposed ally.


UIAF was annoyed that TSP as an ally had talked about its military operations to its enemies. Onder, as UIAF Field Marshal, told you that politely. Geomania came asking for further information. Onder gave further details on Geomania's request. No one ordered anyone to do anything. Your faux outrage is noted, but it really is absurd. TSP's oficials were unprofessional and are now thowing a fit over one ally approaching another with concerns.
Last edited by Christopher Bishop on Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Venico
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Posts: 1389
Founded: Mar 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Venico » Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:17 pm

Cormac A Stark wrote:
Venico wrote:
It brought the UIAF crashing in and kept raiders out from the pile. Blame the RPers for that one, not raiders.

I certainly wasn't suggesting that UIAF didn't help with the liberation last year. I was referring to Durk and Mall choosing to share Milograd's nation during the coup, despite TSP having a treaty alliance with TNI.

Durk may not be considered a raider (?), but Mall certainly is.


Durk is Durk and while Mall (a lone raider) partook of the coup, the organizations stayed out. Including his own regions and raider friends.

Anyways, it's nice to return a GCR to the market after a long time off the shelf. When there's only 9 (if someone starts counting Warzones they get the paddle. =P) it hurts to take one off the list.
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Nierr
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Posts: 1211
Founded: Feb 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Nierr » Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:07 pm

Venico wrote:
Cormac A Stark wrote:Of course neither the TNI treaty nor any other treaty protected TSP from Durk or Mall last year, so the effect any treaty has in restraining raiders may be a bit exaggerated.


It brought the UIAF crashing in and kept raiders out from the pile. Blame the RPers for that one, not raiders.

The numbers of RPers involved in that one are very much inflated.

Much more help came from the leftist and communist regions.

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