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Embassy of the South Pacific

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4850
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:45 pm

Kazmr wrote:
Ridersyl wrote:I'll admit, when I saw that it was freakin' Kazmr voicing opposition to this coup, I went 'Hey, wait a minute, that's not right.'
It's like seeing Tony the Tiger voicing opposition to cereal. Just.. what.

What is that supposed to mean? Like... I'm supposed to be a supporter of coups? Or that I'm not supposed to oppose a flagrant breach of power and the expulsion of people I have long had a positive working relationship with?


I mean... You're most notable, at least to me, for being highly trusted in the NPO's coup of Lazarus and then pulling that ridiculous 180 that broke Milograd's heart.
So to see you now opposing a coup when your most notable act was achieved through being a big part of a coup... Yeah. The 'positive working relationship' bit clears it up some though. :blush:
Last edited by RiderSyl on Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
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Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:05 pm

I, for one, support any movement to bring established institutions to their knees.

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Kazmr
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 460
Founded: Aug 23, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Kazmr » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:07 pm

I was working with the legitimate government, Funk and everyone, from the very start of the NLO, and coordinated my actions with them entirely. The reason I was trusted by Milo and them was because of my personal relationship with Milo, not because I necessarily have an affinity with coupers :P We're still friends and talk to one another outside the site, so its not as though the bridge was burned thankfully, but in the end I made the choice between the community (with many I call friends as well) and one friendship, and I chose the former.

Now that my phone is almost dead too, and I need it for later, this will actually be my last post here :P
Former Chairman of the Peoples Republic of Lazarus
Officer of the Lazarene Liberation Army
Also known as United Gordonopia

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Glen-Rhodes
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9025
Founded: Jun 25, 2008
Civil Rights Lovefest

Re: Embassy of the South Pacific

Postby Glen-Rhodes » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:17 pm

Fwiw, the policy on SPINN has always been that anybody can take over, if the previous EIC hasn't been active. I experimented with restarting it after Belschaft rebranded it the Independent-something-or-other. I stopped writing because I got busy, had nobody expressing interest in writing for it, and Kris was doing a better job with the Southern Journal anyways. :/


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Icecream Princess
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Jan 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Icecream Princess » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:48 pm

Kazmr wrote:Balder is also significantly younger than Lazarus. In the time that Balder has been around, there are only two events in Lazarus that could in some way be called a coup. So yes, the idea that because I'm from Lazarus and therefore that somehow warps my perspective on coups is ridiculous.

Only two? This also includes what set in motion the current government that some still see as illegitimate. That is why your position is considered untenable.

Kazmr wrote:As for independents and imperialists, I'm sorry, but thats certainly not true. Balder and Osi might be more active at the moment, but like everywhere, things go in cycles. Not too long ago it was literally the opposite, where TRR and Laz wildly outpaced Balder and Osiris in activity. Sometimes regions are more active, sometimes not. Also, I have literally never heard us called the "sick men", so I'm not really sure how you can claim that thats a wide opinion.

This is completely untrue. Lazarus briefly I believe outpaced Balder, but quickly it reverts to its mean of inactivity. I believe that Balder's forums have more posts than all of Lazarus' put together over its much longer history (this makes sense since I believe TRR was first). Thus, Lazarus has certainly been the least active of all the sinkers over time. Even as recently as last term, Lazarus was asking for handouts from the GCR community in the form of asking for favourable recruiting promises (whereas Balder and Osiris have never needed such things). The concept of a sick man in Europe was about countries that were struggling mightily which I believe applies here. The idea that Lazarus would not do better if it governed by regionalists or independents is a silly one. Of course Lazarus would do better!

Give Lazarus to Balder for a year and we'll show you what we can do!

Kazmr wrote:This opinion, though, is what I find to be the MOST toxic thing far and away about independents, and why they never get along with defenders. Anyone voicing a defender viewpoint for a region or simply making friends with defender regions is attacked, slandered, accused of being subservient to outside influences, etc. Essentially, friendliness to defenders is simply not recognized as something which can benefit a region, and thus anyone espousing it is dismissed as dangerous. Thats why someone like GR can be accused of devious scheming when in fact he was open during his entire career that he thought TSP could benefit from making friends with defenders. He never made that a secret, and yet his opponents act like we should all be surprised when he pushes a treaty with a region like Lazarus, as if he somehow tricked us. Meanwhile someone pushing relations with an independent or raider aligned region and its taken without question.

This is entirely incorrect. True regionalist defenders are almost never criticized or as you call it "attacked". That is why you will rarely if ever see an independent regionalist criticizing members of 10KI or Spiritus. In fact, I have the highest praise for 10KI whom I believe are the greatest recruiters ever and at various times have been friends with many members of their community. In fact, when in Europeia I have constantly encouraged them to adopt their recruiting methods.

It is only defenders who have engaged in ridiculous levels of political manipulation without any concern for building regions that are criticized.

Kazmr wrote:Btw, would you mind letting me know who you are? Its not very fun arguing with an anonymous puppet constantly throwing shade at you. Sounds like Rach?
I didn't think it was a secret.

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SouthMac
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby SouthMac » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:55 pm

Icecream Princess wrote:
Kazmr wrote:Btw, would you mind letting me know who you are? Its not very fun arguing with an anonymous puppet constantly throwing shade at you. Sounds like Rach?
I didn't think it was a secret.

She's using this nation as her citizenship nation in TSP, so it really wasn't a secret for anyone who bothered to do a quick search on the forum. :P
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Citizen of The South Pacific

Χαλεπὰ τὰ καλά (Naught Without Labor)

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Icecream Princess
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Jan 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Icecream Princess » Sun Jan 31, 2016 1:59 pm

Also, Icecream princess with a Canadian flag....

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Sovreignry
Diplomat
 
Posts: 763
Founded: Sep 14, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Sovreignry » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:07 pm

Right, because standard procedure when it comes to puppets is to go into every region's offsite forum and look through their citizenship rolls.
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Icecream Princess
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 43
Founded: Jan 30, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Icecream Princess » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:10 pm

Sovreignry wrote:Right, because standard procedure when it comes to puppets is to go into every region's offsite forum and look through their citizenship rolls.

I do it every day when I wake up!

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4850
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:12 pm

Sovreignry wrote:Right, because standard procedure when it comes to puppets is to go into every region's offsite forum and look through their citizenship rolls.


Well, going into the regional forum of the region they're in to see if they list their main there isn't that far step to take if you're getting irritated by the puppetry.
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Siberian Districts
Attaché
 
Posts: 82
Founded: Jul 24, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Siberian Districts » Sun Jan 31, 2016 3:50 pm

SouthMac wrote:I have zero interest in getting into a prolonged debate with Kazmr over things that are only tangentially related to what is going on in TSP. There's too much good stuff happening in TSP to bother, and everyone should come check it out.


Pretty much this!
Whether you're for, or against this movement, I think we can we can all agree this is going to be a fun couple of weeks.
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Consular
Minister
 
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Founded: Apr 10, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Consular » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:06 pm

Somehow I suspect some of the people being banned are going to find it not as fun.

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4850
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:55 pm

Consular wrote:Somehow I suspect some of the people being banned are going to find it not as fun.


Yeah, I'll pity the TSP politicians that got banned... in about... uh... never.
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SouthMac
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Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 23, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby SouthMac » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:00 pm

Consular wrote:Somehow I suspect some of the people being banned are going to find it not as fun.

All three of them? :P
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Citizen of The South Pacific

Χαλεπὰ τὰ καλά (Naught Without Labor)

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Hileville
Envoy
 
Posts: 233
Founded: May 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Hileville » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:05 pm

SouthMac wrote:
Consular wrote:Somehow I suspect some of the people being banned are going to find it not as fun.

All three of them? :P


4. I banned Unibot as well.
Hileville

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RiderSyl
Senator
 
Posts: 4850
Founded: Jan 16, 2014
Mother Knows Best State

Postby RiderSyl » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:08 pm

Hileville wrote:
SouthMac wrote:All three of them? :P


4. I banned Unibot as well.


I don't officially support the coup, but boy do I support the choice of ejectees!
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Eluvatar
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2264
Founded: Mar 31, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Eluvatar » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:16 pm

Ridersyl wrote:
Hileville wrote:
4. I banned Unibot as well.


I don't officially support the coup, but boy do I support the choice of ejectees!

What did Farengeto do to offend you?
Last edited by Eluvatar on Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Brunhizzle
Envoy
 
Posts: 243
Founded: Jan 07, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Brunhizzle » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:33 pm

At the very least this is entertaining to watch. Ultimately what is done is done and, barring a miracle, won't see a change but man I do hope the drama continues. I'm cooking popcorn and everything.
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Kringalia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 791
Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Statement on the Breach of Constitutional Order

Postby Kringalia » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:17 pm

Statement from the Committee for State Security
On the Breach of Constitutional Order by the Cabinet


On 31 January 2016, the Cabinet of the South Pacific attempted to dissolve the Charter, Code of Laws and all legal institutions of the Coalition, in contravention of laws and precedents established throughout the past thirteen years. In addition, Delegate Hileville and Regional Officers SJS Republic and Imkitopia, banned and ejected Sandaoguo, Kringalia and Farengeto, three members of this Committee, without legal cause or due process.

This is a serious breach of constitutional order and tantamount to a coup d’état. We stand with the native population of the South Pacific in opposing these actions and vow to work tirelessly towards a restoration of the Coalition under legitimate and democratic leadership. Hileville was elected with a mandate to work towards a more pacific and unified regional community. His actions are proving highly destabilising and divisive, and show a lack of respect for the history and achievements of the region.

Today a majority of the Committee voted to declare a state of emergency, due to the rogue actions of the Cabinet. We will be contemplating further measures in addition to the state of emergency in the course of the follow days, many of which will be submitted to the Assembly for due approval. Business will continue as usual in our official forum, which is now located at http://tspforums.xyz.

We thank those allies who had already expressed their support. They have our gratitude. We encourage all other like-minded regions to support our legitimate government, one that has endured the test of time for thirteen years, one that was created from consensus and cooperation, not through tyranny and division.

Such grievous violations of our democracy will not stand. The Coalition is alive. It is here to stay.

The Committee for State Security
Last edited by Kringalia on Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Delegate of the South Pacific (x2) | Vice Delegate (x1) | Minister of Regional Affairs (x2) | Minister of Foreign Affairs (x1) | Deputy Minister of Regional Affairs (x3) | Chief Justice (Incumbent) | Member of the Committee for State Security (Incumbent)
Interviewed Max Barry | Tuesday Couper
Federal Constitutional Republic | President Todd Wilcox | GDP $834 billion | Population 19 million | Founding Member of the Southern Cooperation Organisation

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Mousebumples
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Mousebumples » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:43 pm

Kringalia wrote:
Statement from the Committee for State Security
On the Breach of Constitutional Order by the Cabinet


On 31 January 2016, the Cabinet of the South Pacific attempted to dissolve the Charter, Code of Laws and all legal institutions of the Coalition, in contravention of laws and precedents established throughout the past thirteen years. In addition, Delegate Hileville and Regional Officers SJS Republic and Imkitopia, banned and ejected Sandaoguo, Kringalia and Farengeto, three members of this Committee, without legal cause or due process.

This is a serious breach of constitutional order and tantamount to a coup d’état. We stand with the native population of the South Pacific in opposing these actions and vow to work tirelessly towards a restoration of the Coalition under legitimate and democratic leadership. Hileville was elected with a mandate to work towards a more pacific and unified regional community. His actions are proving highly destabilising and divisive, and show a lack of respect for the history and achievements of the region.

Today a majority of the Committee voted to declare a state of emergency, due to the rogue actions of the Cabinet. We will be contemplating further measures in addition to the state of emergency in the course of the follow days, many of which will be submitted to the Assembly for due approval. Business will continue as usual in our official forum, which is now located at http://tspforums.xyz.

We thank those allies who had already expressed their support. They have our gratitude. We encourage all other like-minded regions to support our legitimate government, one that has endured the test of time for thirteen years, one that was created from consensus and cooperation, not through tyranny and division.

Such grievous violations of our democracy will not stand. The Coalition is alive. It is here to stay.

The Committee for State Security

We know who is in the Cabinet of the Transitional Government. Who is on this "Committee" ? It's hypothetically persuasive to say "a majority of the Committee voted" - but it's much more persuasive if we know who is on this Committee (and, of course, how big said Committee is).
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Kringalia
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Feb 03, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Kringalia » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:55 pm

Mousebumples wrote:We know who is in the Cabinet of the Transitional Government. Who is on this "Committee" ? It's hypothetically persuasive to say "a majority of the Committee voted" - but it's much more persuasive if we know who is on this Committee (and, of course, how big said Committee is).

Just to give some brief context, the Committee is our equivalent of a security council. You can find current and past memberships of the Committee here. It currently has six full members, but as per High Court Ruling LQ1503, Delegate Hileville does not have a vote until his term finishes.
Delegate of the South Pacific (x2) | Vice Delegate (x1) | Minister of Regional Affairs (x2) | Minister of Foreign Affairs (x1) | Deputy Minister of Regional Affairs (x3) | Chief Justice (Incumbent) | Member of the Committee for State Security (Incumbent)
Interviewed Max Barry | Tuesday Couper
Federal Constitutional Republic | President Todd Wilcox | GDP $834 billion | Population 19 million | Founding Member of the Southern Cooperation Organisation

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Hileville
Envoy
 
Posts: 233
Founded: May 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Hileville » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:01 pm

Kris,

I think you forgot to point out that under the Charter (that has been dissolved), the CSS has no authority to declare a State of Emergency unless requested by the Delegate (me). It should also be noted that I am still the Delegate of the Coalition Government, unless the CSS has also empowered the Vice Delegate (Imki) to act as Delegate per Article 6, Section 3, Clause 6. I can also confirm that Imki has not asked for a State of Emergency. I have not been recalled form office, I have not been convicted of any crimes, and I have not lost my Citizenship according to the Charter (again that is now dissolved).

The CSS has no legal authority whatsoever per your laws.

The Official Regional Forums of the South Pacific reside at http://thesouthpacific.org where a Constitutional Convention is taking place.

Thanks!
Hileville

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Farengeto Embassy 2
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: Jan 31, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Farengeto Embassy 2 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:28 pm

The Coalition of the South Pacific does not recognize you illegitimate dictatorship. Call us a vocal minority if you want but you gravely overestimate yourself. You circumvented our Assembly, overthrew our forums, dismantled the Committee for State Security and then spat in the face of our Judiciary before finally decided to purge the opposition from your regime and destroyed the very community you were elected to lead. You can feign your superior ignorance if you want but this is illegal and a coup, and everyone knows it.

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Zadiner
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1146
Founded: Feb 24, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Zadiner » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:44 pm

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:
Zadiner wrote:But when it's done in the way your government has done it, it is very wrong.
I might have supported a change in TSP if it wasn't secretive and was handled in a different way, by different people.




Because no one at all saw this coming, or who would be involved. Yep. :P

What? It is secretive, because it all happened before the public knew anything. And as far as I know, you're not a TSP resident, so you wouldn't know.
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Ryccia
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Apr 25, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ryccia » Mon Feb 01, 2016 3:39 am

Hile, by betraying the Coalition with a stab on the back, you have indirectly resigned as Delegate of the Coalition. By murdering democracy, you have no trust. Even if you are our official Delegate, I'd rather disobey you than follow your regime.

You are very corrupt. Very, very corrupt. Not only have you banned your opposition, you have destroyed the rule of law by ignoring a Court decision. How far will you go?
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