Embassy of the South Pacific

[Cormac Stark]

The Cabinet does not have the authority to contravene the CSS on a matter of internal security (jurisdiction which belongs to the CSS according to the constitution, not the cabinet) if it senses that a sole member of the CSS is a threat against the Coalition, no. The proper legal method for resolving such a concern is to direct your query to the only body superior to both the CSS and the Cabinet: the Assembly. The Assembly possesses the power to recall a CSS member. Once again however, the Assembly was not contacted. Probably because the Cabinet's case against Glen-Rhodes is about as flimsy and unconvincing as Trump's toupee.

I don't think the Assembly debating and voting while a CSS member is threatening a coup is the best way to handle regional security and I'm virtually certain the Assembly never intended that lunatic way of handling a threat. Your legal argument is wrong, and you know it. No harm was done in requesting allied military support while Glen-Rhodes was sounding threatening.

I've never been convicted of anything in a region. Your irony is seriously misplaced. I consider myself to have been a pretty good speaker and interpreter of TSP's law over the years.

Your flight from justice in TNP and TEP doesn't make you innocent, and you are permanently banned from The Rejected Realms off-site platforms for out-of-character sexual harassment, which is far worse than breaking in-character regional laws.

I did not act on Ravania's "espionage" and I did not get UDL members to vote stack against a treaty with TNI in 2011.

These are both blatant lies. I suppose now you'll tell us that you didn't initially punish Eluvatar within the UDL for reporting Ravania's espionage instead of punishing Ravania for committing espionage.

Not that I would expect anything but blatant lies, and worse, from you. Nor should anyone.

[Unibot III]

[
I don't think the Assembly debating and voting while a CSS member is threatening a coup is the best way to handle regional security.

Nobody is threatening a coup and besides: the CSS works on a majority vote and could have been consulted first before even the Assembly.

Your flight from justice in TNP and TEP doesn't make you innocent,

Oh I've been charged with everything under the moon - I've got a lot of enemies, you see - but that doesn't mean I've been convicted of anything. I consider what I've been accused of in TEP to be absurd - I was accused of causing a "public distress" with the evidence being logs that showed me having a RL mental breakdown and attempted suicide. I was never charged with anything in TNP to run from - I was made Persona Non Grata which is an extralegal status - essentially I'm not allowed to become a citizen but it's not based on any criminal activity but instead political activity. TNP declared me Persona Non Grata because I royally pissed r3n off with an article in the Rejected Times loaded with colorful and offensive punditry- and another which accused TNP's defense policy against Nazis to be opportunistic and grandstanding. Both articles I'm quite proud of.

In theory I could become a resident and challenge the persona non grata charge as a violation of my freedom of expression - but I've never particularly cared to.

These are both blatant lies. I suppose now you'll tell us that you didn't initially punish Eluvatar within the UDL for reporting Ravania's espionage instead of punishing Ravania for committing espionage.

I repeat: I did not act on Ravania's "espionage" and I did not get UDL members to vote stack against a treaty with TNI in 2011.

I did initially punish Eluvatar because he leaked logs from the officer's channel, I was soon convinced by others though that he had a duty as a whistle-blower to report. But that doesn't contradict what I've said. I did not act on Ravania's "espionage" - I've said many, many times since then that I contacted McMasterdonia acting on information from a non-defender NPA officer who had inadvertently leaked the same thing as Ravania had to me - I don't think it was an intentional leak (I had been a NPA soldier myself for a while, so I believe it was a genuine confusion of her/his part) and I haven't wanted to get him/her in trouble, so I've never brought up his/her name. I did however apologize for the incident on behalf of the UDL and even took part in a collective punishment for reasons still unclear to every living soul including me.

[Cormac Stark]

and you are permanently banned from The Rejected Realms off-site platforms for out-of-character sexual harassment, which is far worse than breaking in-character regional laws.

You seem to have missed that bit, Unibot, so I'll wait.

[Falapatorius]

From what I can tell, the legal delegate of TSP is authorized to request assistance in the event of an internal or external attack, and TNP is obliged to comply. At other times - that is, when there is not a current internal or external attack - TNP is not obliged to comply, but I see no clause prohibiting that from happening.

Agreed. There is no prohibition on that. However, that would preclude a signatory invoking the TNP/TSP treaty as justification for the influx of foreign troops (particularly when it is being debated whether these troops have lawfully entered TSP or not). On the one hand, it could be a signatory providing military support against a potential security threat. On the other, it could also be potentially supporting an illegal political coup. I'm not privy to the specifics of this power struggle in TSP, but a foreign military buildup in the region seems premature and could exacerbate an already tense situation. Let the citizens/government of TSP sort it out.

[Unibot III]

and you are permanently banned from The Rejected Realms off-site platforms for out-of-character sexual harassment, which is far worse than breaking in-character regional laws.

You seem to have missed that bit, Unibot, so I'll wait.

I'm not entirely sure what part of being banned from a region where I dedicated years of service to, and then proceeding to peacefully and civilly live there, is supposed to prove I'm a threat to feeders and sinkers.

[Cormac Stark]

You seem to have missed that bit, Unibot, so I'll wait.

I'm not entirely sure what part of being banned from a region where I dedicated years of service to, and then proceeding to peacefully and civilly live there, is supposed to prove I'm a threat to feeders and sinkers.

It proves you're a threat to the NationStates community in general, and off-site regional communities in particular, in among the most reprehensible possible ways. And all you have to say for yourself is you're not sure how that's relevant?

Have you asked TRR if they want you to keep "peacefully and civilly living there"? Their ban would seem to indicate that they wouldn't, and yet there you remain, because they lack an eject button.

[Unibot III]

And all you have to say for yourself is you're not sure how that's relevant?

All I have to say for now, yes. I'm not going to discuss my sexual history in every thread I'm in NationStates with you - that could get weird, redundant, uncomfortable for everyone and illegal fast. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what to say, which is probably why I've been silent whenever you've brought this up for the past year or so - and probably why I'll continue to be silent on it for the foreseeable future.

Have you asked TRR if they want you to keep "peacefully and civilly living there"? Their ban would seem to indicate that they wouldn't, and yet there you remain, because they lack an eject button.

I'm not sure really. You'd have to ask them. Probably depends on who you ask. I have a lot of friends on the Regional Message Board from my days as delegate. I had lunch with the people who banned me from the region the same week as I was banned. I dunno. *shrugs* I like to think I amassed some friends while serving as delegate for more than a year. I consider many of them friends, at the very least.

Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what this has to do with TSP. Actually I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with TSP.

[Cormac Stark]

All I have to say for now, yes. I'm not going to discuss my sexual history in every thread I'm in NationStates with you - that could get weird, redundant, uncomfortable for everyone and illegal fast. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what to say, which is probably why I've been silent whenever you've brought this up for the past year or so - and probably why I'll continue to be silent on it for the foreseeable future.

You could start by admitting what you've done -- in general terms, not with a detailed "sexual history," or what I like to call a detailed victimization history, as if anyone wants that to be public -- and saying you're sorry, and accepting the consequences of your admitted actions, but that would require you to actually be sorry or have an actual conscience of any kind.

This issue of your behavior and how it should disqualify you from participating in this game anywhere and in any capacity will not be going away while we are both still participating in NationStates. I won't let it.

[Consular]

And we're back to this. That didn't take long.

First of all, it's be hard to pull back since Balder has deployed already deployed the Walken Walkers.

I need to start participating in Balder again omg

[Unibot III]

All I have to say for now, yes. I'm not going to discuss my sexual history in every thread I'm in NationStates with you - that could get weird, redundant, uncomfortable for everyone and illegal fast. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure what to say, which is probably why I've been silent whenever you've brought this up for the past year or so - and probably why I'll continue to be silent on it for the foreseeable future.

You could start by admitting what you've done -- in general terms, not with a detailed "sexual history," or what I like to call a detailed victimization history, as if anyone wants that to be public -- and saying you're sorry, and accepting the consequences of your admitted actions, but that would require you to actually be sorry or have an actual conscience of any kind.

This issue of your behavior and how it should disqualify you from participating in this game anywhere and in any capacity will not be going away while we are both still participating in NationStates. I won't let it.

That would be impossible for a number of reasons, so I guess you'll just have to continue grandstanding on this issue (hopefully with the same William Shatner approach to dialogue), and I'll keep not responding.

[Riftey]

Can you pair stop acting like fucking children? Take it to skype or some shit if you really need to continue beating eachover down.

[Cormac Stark]

Can you pair stop acting like fucking children? Take it to skype or some shit if you really need to continue beating eachover down.

That mentality -- "take all your bad behavior off-site" -- is the entire problem.

In any event, while this digression was originally related to TSP it has ceased to be, so I will drop this issue in this thread.

[Riftey]

Can you pair stop acting like fucking children? Take it to skype or some shit if you really need to continue beating eachover down.

That mentality -- "take all your bad behavior off-site" -- is the entire problem.

In any event, while this digression was originally related to TSP it has ceased to be, so I will drop this issue in this thread.

I don't care if it's offsite at all. I care that two grown adults are acting like whiny bitches in the public eye over a matter fucking irrelevant to the topic at hand. Take it to TG if you'd prefer; I went with skype because it's the usual place for discussion.

Thank you.

[Distortilla]

Hopefully they can work something out so that this doesn't turn into a long, weird war of sorts.

LOL!

Really?
This is TSP we're talking about, coming from such an experienced veteran as yourself this naivety is endearing!

[Ambrella]

I have confirmed the Delegate's request for the support of allied endorsements in my capacity as MoFA.

[RiderSyl]

I must have missed Riftey being masked as a moderator.

[Riftey]

I must have missed Riftey being masked as a moderator.

Guess you must have also missed the memo that personal attacks aren't allowed. x

Suck it up princess. All I've said is to take it elsewhere. The exact same thing 99% of people are thinking and what mods are going to say. It's not relevant to the topic at hand.

Either way; Don't wanna continue the threadjack yo.

[McMasterdonia]

These are both blatant lies. I suppose now you'll tell us that you didn't initially punish Eluvatar within the UDL for reporting Ravania's espionage instead of punishing Ravania for committing espionage.

I repeat: I did not act on Ravania's "espionage" and I did not get UDL members to vote stack against a treaty with TNI in 2011.

I did initially punish Eluvatar because he leaked logs from the officer's channel, I was soon convinced by others though that he had a duty as a whistle-blower to report. But that doesn't contradict what I've said. I did not act on Ravania's "espionage" - I've said many, many times since then that I contacted McMasterdonia acting on information from a non-defender NPA officer who had inadvertently leaked the same thing as Ravania had to me - I don't think it was an intentional leak (I had been a NPA soldier myself for a while, so I believe it was a genuine confusion of her/his part) and I haven't wanted to get him/her in trouble, so I've never brought up his/her name. I did however apologize for the incident on behalf of the UDL and even took part in a collective punishment for reasons still unclear to every living soul including me.

I was not going to respond to you, however, as my name and my home region have been mentioned, I feel an obligation to respond.

Lets be clear here - You didn't just punish Eluvatar - you fired him. You fired someone who had loyally served you as a Lieutenant and Chief of Intelligence for years. A passionate defender who spent hundreds of hours working on tools that greatly benefited your organisation.

It was only through the smart thinking of your advisors that you were talked down from that. Kicking someone out of the organisation for speaking out against espionage carried out against their home region? For someone who later turned an advocate for Ravania's espionage, you certainly were not so supportive of whistleblowing within your own organisation.

I've never heard the version of the story that involves a non-defender NPAer. I'm sure you realise how ridiculous that sounds, and that even if it were true, it does not excuse your behaviour or that of your officers in encouraging Ravania to take the information. Even sharing ideas about how to make it more accessible for them to read.

You were not a member of the North Pacific Army at the time, and you had not been a member for some time. If you were a member yourself, you wouldn't have needed any source to get that information for you.

The 'UDL' investigation into the incident was mostly a farce. We received an apology from Earth in her capacity as Chief of Feeder and Sinker Affairs on behalf of the UDL. We received an apology from Ravania - something I have taken in good faith and accepted. You received a punishment where even today you continue to not accept in good faith, and you even wrote an article where you talked up the positives of your intelligence breach. An article you continue to stand by today. Any so called apology from you is not worth the paper it is written on.

Also point of clarity - yourself, and other UDL members such as Mahaj, were quick to leave the North Pacific and resign citizenship as soon as it became apparent that our then Attorney Generals Office had been preparing a wide range of indictments that would have seen yourself, Ravania, Mahaj, Earth, and possibly others in court. The PNG declaration and your decision to leave the region was enough to make that process no longer necessary. The investigation into UDL espionage in the North Pacific was not just going to end with your continued participation in our region.

---

To the South Pacific Government, I continue to offer my support to the legitimate elected government. I hope that the South Pacific can move forward from this incident with a renewed sense of unity and vitality for the challenges that will rise in the future.

[Crazy girl]

Cormac, if you want to be a martyr, I'll give you a hand.

*** 3 day ban for continued personal attacks and threadjacking. ***

Edit: this thread gets back on topic now.

[Eluvatar]

-snip-

Tangent continued here instead.

[Reploid Productions]

And just a quick bit of bookkeeping: Rifty's been puppetswept for his flaming/baiting in here.


~Evil Forum Empress Rep Prod the Ninja Mod
~She who wields the Banhammer; master of the mighty moderation no-dachi Kiritateru Teikoku

[Ikania]

One second Reppy, let me drop the mic for you.

[Unibot III]

The South Pacific's presiding justice in a recent reference question has found that the Hileville cabinet comprehensively violated the constitution, and the South Pacific's laws, administrative practice, convention and at least one extant resolution by moving forums unilaterally, replacing the administrators with 3 cabinet ministers unilaterally, and removing Kringalia from the CSS. This puts Hileville's cabinet in contempt of parliament in essence (but not necessarily a criminal offense.)

EDIT: I can't think of another case in a GCR where a governing caucus has operated so outside of their region's presiding constitutional law and also maintains itself as the legitimate executors of the same constitution - generally when executives are acting this much outside of the law they're trying to establish a new regional order altogether (NLO, OFO, SPSR). This puts Hileville's cabinet in an unprecedentedly grey area if they try to deescalate the legal crisis and/or oversee an awkward forum transition - in other words, most people are on their way to becoming regional pariahs/revolutionaries at this point, not bidding for re-election.

[RiderSyl]

I see you're not mentioning that the 'presiding justice' who ruled against Hilevile and the cabinet was directly negatively affected by their actions.

I guess bias doesn't matter if you're a judge in the South Pacific!

[Unibot III]

I see you're not mentioning that the 'presiding justice' who ruled against Hilevile and the cabinet was directly negatively affected by their actions.

I guess bias doesn't matter if you're a judge in the South Pacific!

Farengeto was not a forum administrator nor is he Kringalia, the CSS member that the third part of the reference question centered around. The third decision did not change the parameters of CSS membership but instead revolved around citizenship law (i.e., whether Kringalia was still a citizen), so in effect it didn't affect CSS members as far as their membership in general is concerned anymore than the decision affected any other citizen in virtue of them being citizens. "Conflict of interests" is not a reasonable counter-argument here: the cabinet's actions were always on shaky legal grounds - and I'd wager a bet anyone with any strong understanding of TSP's law and some integrity would have made a similar ruling as Farengeto did.