Embassy of the South Pacific

[Riftey]

Making a conspiracy out of this isn't going to bring you back from irrelevancy. I hope you do know that.

I was always under the impression that no matter what relevance someone holds; that they are welcome to an opinion and then to vocalise it. Mhm.

[Cormac Stark]

It was always apparent that having the likes of Glen-Rhodes and Kris running TSP's forums was a terrible idea. Constitutional or not, this was a sensible decision for the community of TSP -- as evidenced by the vocal opposition of those who have only ever been interested in manipulating TSP's community, not positively contributing to it.

I actually encourage Hileville and the Cabinet to throw off the chains of the Coalition altogether and subject subversives like Glen-Rhodes to swift justice dispensed by the Delegate. Then TSP's community can be free to create a new, actually functional system. It worked in Osiris.

Mhmm good stuff. Randomly snark attack Unibot rather than dealing with his pretty accurate assessment of what looks to be happening here.

Unibot should be shunned and vilified, every time he crawls out of his hiding place, by anyone with any sense of decency and respect for women. Otherwise he'll just start playing again and victimizing more female players. So Syl's response to him was exactly as it should have been and yours is the one that needs work.

[Glen-Rhodes]

The Cabinet has no authority to create new forums, except in cases of the existing forums being inaccessible.

The Cabinet broke no law moving the forums. The forums will still reside at the legal domain (thesouthpacific.org). The only legal definition of the forums was that they reside at that domain and that has not changed. (yes the zeta URL is being used temporarily until the DNS updates)

This was a vote of the ENTIRE cabinet that resulted in this. With your actions being a large part of the reason a move was made.

The Cabinet broke several laws. I have outlined these in the Legal Question I have submitted to the Permanent Justice: http://104.131.34.7/thread-3602.html

Here it is in full:

To the Permanent Justice of the High Court of The South Pacific,

The following Legal Question is submitted, challenging the legality of the Cabinet's actions on 21 January 2015, which are: unilaterally creating a new forum and redirecting the domain (thesouthpacific.org) to these new forums; unilaterally removing Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, and Kringalia as forum administrators; unilaterally installing Hileville, Imkihca, and Scylla as forum administrators; unilaterally removing Kringalia's citizenship and his membership in the Committee on State Security; and unilaterally removing Regional Officer Border Control powers from Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, Kringalia, and Farengeto.

Part 1: Unilaterally creating a new forum and redirecting the domain to those new forums

In contradiction of Articles 9.1 and 9.2, Hileville and the Cabinet created a new forum on 10 January 2015. (As evidenced by the creation date for the “Lampshade” root account.) These forums are located at the following URL: http://s15.zetaboards.com/the_South_Pacific/ (hereafter “the Zetaboards domain” or “the Zetaboards forum”). They did so in direct violation of Article 9.3 of the Charter, usurping the Assembly's exclusive right over establishing new forums.

Part 1(a): Article 9.1 (as amended 8 December 2015) of the Charter states:

“1. The Coalition's official Regional Forum is located at http://thesouthpacific.org.” (Herein after “the forums.”)

Hileville, owner the thesouthpacific.org domain, set up a URL redirect to the Zetaboards domain. When typing in “thesouthpacific.org” in their browser, the user is redirected to the Zetaboards domain. As such, in a purely legalistic argument, the forums created by Hileville and the Cabinet are not “located at” http://thesouthpacific.org. The are “located at” http://s15.zetaboards.com/the_South_Pacific/. Therefore, the forums at the Zetaboards domain are not the Coalition's official Regional Forum under the Charter.

Part 1(b): Article 9.2 (as amended 8 December 2015) of the Charter states:

“2. Should the Regional Forum cease to exist or otherwise become permanently unavailable then the Cabinet is authorized to establish a replacement Regional Forum.”

Hileville and the Cabinet make no argument in their statement that the forums had ceased to exist or had become permanently unavailable. Their arguments for taking those drastic actions were grievances against members of the Administration Team. Nowhere in the Charter is that a valid reason to establish new forums. Therefore, the Cabinet was not “authorized to establish a replacement Regional Forum.”

Part 1(c ): Article 9.3 (as amended 8 December 2015) of the Charter states:

“3. Barring circumstances outlined in Section 2 the Assembly reserves the sole right to authorize the creation of a new Regional Forum.”

The Assembly did not debate, and certainly did not vote, on Hileville and the Cabinet's forum move. Because the forums had not ceased to exist and did not become permanently unavailable, the only legal means for the creation of a new forum is through an Assembly vote on a Charter amendment. No such vote occurred.

The Assembly's sole right to establish new forums is further evidenced by the move to the DigitalOcean server, approved on 8 December 2015 (http://104.131.34.7/thread-3474.html). The Admins had been discussing a forum move with the Assembly since February 2015. It took a full year through the political process to conduct a nondisruptive forum move. It flies in the face of reason that Hileville and the Cabinet argue they are authorized to move to new forums in an instant, without Assembly consultation, without a debate, and without a vote, and in a highly disruptive manner that leaves nearly two years of threads, posts, logs, Assembly votes, election results, roleplays, games, diplomatic events, and archives effectively inaccessible.

Furthermore, the above resolution (which is a binding legal document) specifies that the Official Regional Forum will be located on a server owned by Tsunamy and maintained by Sandaoguo. Neither of these conditions exist for the Zetaboards forum.

Question: Given the above, did Hileville and the Cabinet knowingly and flagrantly violate Articles 9.1, 9.2, and 9.3 of the Charter?

-----

Part 2: Unilaterally removing Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, and Kringalia as admins, and installing Hileville, Imkihca, and Scylla as admins.

Without any granted authority under the Charter to do so, Hileville and the Cabinet removed the entire Administration Team and installed the above three Cabinet members as administrators of the Zetaboards forums. They did without any consultation with the Assembly, the High Court, the Committee on State Security, or the sitting Administration Team.

Article 9 of the Charter, which governs the Administration Team, contains no provision for Cabinet authority to remove or install members of the Administration Team. Such rules are governed by the Administrative Procedures, as specified in Article 9.5. The Administrative Procedures (http://104.131.34.7/thread-567-post-30458.html#pid30458) set forth an application process for new Administrators and Moderators.

The Administration Team had not announced open applications for new administrators. Hileville, Imkihca, and Scylla never submitted applications to become administrators. They were never chosen to become administrators. Under no law of the Coalition are they authorized to be administrators of the official Regional Forum.

Question: Given the above, did Hileville and the Cabinet knowingly and flagrantly act without legal authorization to remove Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, and Kringalia as administrators, and did they act without any legal authorization and against Administrative Procedures to install Hileville, Imkihca, and Scylla as administrators?

-----

Part 3: Unilaterally removing Kringalia from the Committee on State Security

Without any legal authority under the Charter, Hileville and the Cabinet removed Kringalia from the Committee on State Security (CSS). They did so by illegally removing his citizenship and claiming he could not sit on the CSS as a result.

Part 3(a): Illegally removing Kringalia's citizenship

On 30 December 2015, Imkihca send a Private Message to Sandaoguo with a list of players who no longer qualified for citizenship, either because they ceased to exist in TSP, or they did not meet the activity requirements of 2 posts within a 30 day period. Kringalia was included on this list, with Imkihca noting that his last 2 posts were made on 22 November 2015.

On 4 January 2016, following the move to the DigitalOcean server, Sandaoguo conducted the demasking of the list, save Kringalia. The reason given was that Kringalia had actually made posts in the private administration forum, which Imkihca could not see. For the record, those posts were made on 3:52pm (Eastern) on 1 December 2015 and 10:29am (Eastern) on 2 December 2015. In other words, Kringalia had made 2 posts within the 30 day period since Imkihca sent the demask list. Proof can be supplied to the Permanent Justice upon request.

Hileville and the Cabinet contend that those posts do not count, because they were made in a private area of the forum that Imkihca could not see. There is no legal basis for this argument. There are several areas of the forum that the Vice Delegate cannot see, including Ministry forums, Cabinet forums, and confidential military forums. When citizens make posts in those forums, they count. They have always counted. In response to Sandaoguo, Imkihca even agreed that she had “no problem including posts in private sections of the forums.” (Proof of all Private Message content can be supplied to the Permanent Justice upon request.)

There was a legitimate issue with the Vice Delegate being responsible for conducting activity checks, but not being able to see all posts in all areas of the forum. As with many thing in The South Pacific, a hodge-podge series of amendments to laws and inadequate planning led to a hole in the process. Seeking to be helpful, Sandaoguo created a tool to alleviate this issue, which showed the dates of the last two posts made by all citizens regardless of where they were made, without needing to grant the Vice Delegate permissions to access those areas. Imkihca was sent the URL to this tool, which is publicly available at http://104.131.34.7/pages.php?page=citizens-list, on 12 January 2015. This was slightly over one week after the issue was brought to the Administration Team's attention.

In fact, between the time this issue arose and the time Hileville created the Zetaboards forum on 10 January 2015, only 6 days had passed. The Cabinet did not bother to have an actual discussion with the Administration Team over the issue, and used it as a pillar in their statement even though the Citizen Roster was created specifically to fix the issue.

If Hileville and the Cabinet continued to have a grievance over Kringalia's citizenship status, they did not express that to any administrator after 4 January 2015. Imkihca did not continue the Private Message thread with Sandaoguo after he provided her the explanation and justification. The Cabinet did not issue a formal complaint. They did not raise the issue with Tsunamy or Kringalia. How can the Administration Team remedy an issue without communication?

Furthermore, if the Cabinet and the Administration Team could not reach an agreement, even though no attempt had been made, the appropriate venue to turn to would be the High Court. Disagreements over the meaning and application of the laws are settled in our judiciary. Instead, they created the Zetaboards forum, sat on those forums for 11 days, and during that time did not attempt whatsoever to pursue any legal means of addressing their grievances.

Part 3(b): Illegally removing Kringalia from the Committee on State Security

There are three means under the law by which a member of the CSS may lose their membership:

1. Resigning.
2. Losing citizenship.
3. A successful recall under Article 2 of the Code of Laws.

Kringalia did not resign. Pursuant to Part 3(a), he remains a citizen. As such, and until one of the above three events happen, Kringalia is a member of the CSS.

Hileville and the Cabinet cannot point to any legal means for the Cabinet to unilaterally remove any member of the CSS.

Question: Did Hileville and the Cabinet knowingly and flagrantly act without any legal authorization to remove Kringalia's citizenship and remove him from the Committee on State Security?

-----

Part 4: Unilaterally removing Regional Officer Border Control powers from Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, Kringalia, and Farengeto

“Border Control” is a Regional Officer power granting a player the ability to eject or ban nations from the region. The issuance of Border Control power is determined by the Regional Officers Act (http://104.131.34.7/thread-3441.html). All members of the Committee on State Security must be granted Border Control power, per Article 1.2 of that act. This is a serious security measure, as being able to eject and ban nations from the region allows members of the Committee on State Security to respond to invasion and coups d'etat. Without it, the CSS is effectively powerless.

Article 4.3 of the act allows a majority of the Cabinet to suspend Regional Officers powers for “behavior unbecoming of a regional representative of The South Pacific.” In their statement, Hileville and the Cabinet do not content that those above CSS members were acting in an unbecoming manner. Rather, Border Control power was removed “to ensure regional security during this transition.” (“This transition” referring to the illegal forum move.)

It should be noted that members of the CSS who are also members of the Cabinet did not have their Border Control power removed. (For the record, that would be Imkihca and Sam111, in addition to Hileville as Delegate Observer.) So, Hileville and the Cabinet removed the only real means of responding to an illegal coup d'etat of the region from all CSS members who were not part of the Cabinet that decided to engage in the above illegal activities.

Question: Did Hileville and the Cabinet knowingly and flagrantly violate the Regional Officers Act by removing Border Control powers from Tsunamy, Sandaoguo, Kringalia, and Farengeto, “to ensure regional security”?

It was always apparent that having the likes of Glen-Rhodes and Kris running TSP's forums was a terrible idea.

Oh, yes, it was terrible for me to move the forums to a new server, saving us from the constant forum-breaking errors of our old host. (A host we only had to move to because of Hileville's actions before. Also, a move that took a year to move through the legitimate political process in the Assembly. Not an overnight redirect to a forum the Assembly never and still hasn't approved.) So terrible of me to install and edit themes, making our laws, citizenship applications, and official chat servers more visible and more easily accessible. How dare I code a tool making it easier for the Vice Delegate to conduct citizen checks! Spending hours and endless emails with Tapatalk customer support, trying to bring Tapatalk back to our community, makes me literally Satan.

I get it. You and a lot of other people have political beef with me. That's fine. But guess what? I'm retired from TSP politics. I've spent the last month improving the forums, and the better part of 2 years making sure we have a working forum, responding to bug reports, fixing server errors, etc. I was literally chatting with a player, helping her regain access to an account she lost the password to, when I discovered that Hileville, Sopo, Scylla, Sam, and Siberian decided to coup the forums.

Has there been controversy with TSP's admins? Yes, obviously. Political controversy whenever some other major political controversy was happening. People who ran against me in elections and opposed me politically calling for my head every election cycle. And guess what? Every time, cooler heads prevailed, because we cared about TSP and wanted a stable forum. Hileville wants power, and wants to be the admin of TSP again. I'm sure he's been wanting it for a while. And now he gets it, illegally, with the help of several players I thought were decent, honest, and trustworthy. It's very disappointing.

If Hileville wanted me gone so bad, he could've gone to the Assembly and proposed it. If people voted that they didn't want as an admin, why would I stay and continue spending time and energy improving their forums? Instead, he was afraid of what.. That I'd break multiple IRL laws by stealing Tsunamy's DigitalOcean account (a feat that would involve hacking one of the most secure and widely used VPS providers in the market?), taking control of the server, and... I don't know.. lording over a forum nobody would use? Get real. Hileville did this because he wanted to have the power.

[Cormac Stark]

<snip>

For all your talk of illegal actions, you seem to be ignoring the primary basis the Cabinet stated for voting to change forums: You were ignoring the Charter and refusing to appropriately re-mask someone whose citizenship had lapsed, because he is your friend, your political ally, and your fellow forum administrator.

I don't see how you have room to complain that the Cabinet has broken the law. If you had followed it instead of playing favorites, there would have been no justification for this and it wouldn't have happened. Whatever their motivations, your decision to ignore and thus violate the law gave the Cabinet justification they otherwise wouldn't have had. Maybe you should follow the law and stop creating these unfortunate situations.

Though again, I still think the Cabinet should just dissolve the Coalition and purge you for the good of TSP. A simple forum move is too lenient.

[Glen-Rhodes]

For all your talk of illegal actions, you seem to be ignoring the primary basis the Cabinet stated for voting to change forums: You were ignoring the Charter and refusing to appropriately re-mask someone whose citizenship had lapsed, because he is your friend, your political ally, and your fellow forum administrator.

Perhaps you should read the Legal Question, where this issue is addressed.

Perhaps Hileville and the Cabinet should have gone to the court to settle a disagreement over law, instead of couping the forums. (Or, maybe actually just have a real discussion with the admins about it, instead of immediately creating a new forum and planning a coup?)

If I wanted to protect Kris and have him keep his citizenship, I wouldn't have a created a tool specifically to ensure that the Vice Delegate had a 100% accurate account of when citizens made their last two posts. I wouldn't have made it literally impossible for admins to secretly not make any posts and then lie that, "oh yeah, he posted in the admin forum you just can't see it lol"

Hileville and the Cabinet coup'd the forums. They violated several provisions of the Charter to do it. Plain and simple.

[Cormac Stark]

<snip>

And if the Court finds that to be the case and orders restoration of the forum you administer, I hope Hileville and the Cabinet refuse to comply. It's beyond ridiculous that people who actually care about TSP are being shackled by a system so awful that people like you can easily manipulate it to play your games and retain inordinate power over the community.

Again, we had problems just like these in Osiris. Dissolving the rotten and easily manipulated system, purging those like you who manipulated it to accumulate power, and creating the climate necessary for creation of a better system has done wonders for Osiris. It is more stable and functional under the Osiris Fraternal Order than it ever was under the Kemetic Republic of Osiris. As one of the OFO's co-founders, I would be more than happy to lend my expertise in managing such a transition and acquiring support for a new regime, should Hileville and the Cabinet decide it's necessary to go the route that proved so beneficial for TSP's former Sinker ally. I would also be willing to take over as Delegate of TSP and directly administer such a transition, should Hileville decide he's had enough flack and just wants to hand his nation to someone else.

[Glen-Rhodes]

If the people of TSP feel that way, there's a pretty easy and open mechanism for them to express that. It's called the Assembly. Exactly where Hileville and the Cabinet didn't go.

[Hileville]

I've officially requested that our Permanent Justice recuse himself on any and all legal matters relating to these events. He too was directly affected by the Cabinet's executive order removing border control powers.

[Cormac Stark]

If the people of TSP feel that way, there's a pretty easy and open mechanism for them to express that. It's called the Assembly. Exactly where Hileville and the Cabinet didn't go.

Going through the Assembly may not work, just as appealing to the legislature never worked in Osiris. The Assembly is just another institution you and your group have managed to manipulate, just as a coordinated group manipulated the Sepatarchy and later the Deshret of Osiris.

Sometimes democracy isn't the answer, when weak quasi-democratic institutions are so open to manipulation. Where would Osiris be today if The Brotherhood of Malice had declined to act because we lacked a democratic mandate? The only mandate Hileville needs is the highest endorsement count in TSP. Oh look, he already has that!

[Glen-Rhodes]

If the people of TSP feel that way, there's a pretty easy and open mechanism for them to express that. It's called the Assembly. Exactly where Hileville and the Cabinet didn't go.

Going through the Assembly may not work, just as appealing to the legislature never worked in Osiris. The Assembly is just another institution you and your group have managed to manipulate, just as Empire manipulated the Sepatarchy and later the Deshret of Osiris.

lol, sure. There have been a few times in the past 2 years where people were getting close to calling for a vote on removing admins. Those votes were never called, because more reasonable players said the Assembly shouldn't act rashly, or didn't see what the big deal was. The Assembly can and has passed Charter amendments regulating the admin team. It's not as if any admin was saying they couldn't. It's that nobody had ever called for a vote to remove an admin, ever.

Perhaps that's because there's not majority support to do so? Or perhaps these grievances have been limited to a handful of vocal players? Who knows? Perhaps the reason why Hileville and the Cabinet didn't go to the Assembly is because they were skeptical the people of TSP would approve of their plan.

Sometimes democracy isn't the answer, when weak quasi-democratic institutions are so open to manipulation. Where would Osiris be today if The Brotherhood of Malice had declined to act because we lacked a democratic mandate? The only mandate Hileville needs is the highest endorsement count in TSP. Oh look, he already has that!

Where exactly is this manipulation? I haven't been in any government position for about 6 months now. The people who pulled off this forum coup were the ones in charge. Before this, Hileville was asking me to head up TSP's WA program. He was soliciting me for my ideas about constitutional reforms.

You can keep screaming about "manipulation" all you want. You're living in a world where Hileville never beat me in the July 2015 MoFA race, where I'm still involved in TSP's Cabinet, and where I have any say at all in TSP's political direction. You vastly overestimate my involvement in TSP politics.

[Cormac Stark]

<snip>

Two things:

1. BoM wouldn't have had majority support, in advance, for our actions in Osiris either. Majority support came after we threw down the gauntlet and the community could see that what we were doing was going to be beneficial. Again: Sometimes democracy isn't the answer. Sometimes a group has to do what needs to be done without democratic assent, if the majority will be too cautious or afraid to do it. In the end, most of the community will support the necessary steps that are taken.

2. It amuses me to hear how you're not holding office, retired from politics, and wield no power. This sounds more like Osiris by the minute. The problem group in Osiris was fond of publicly downplaying their power when it was threatened as well. That group didn't need to hold political office in order to still hold a great deal of power, and neither do you. Like them, you are using supposedly apolitical security and administrative institutions to maintain your power and claiming you have no power. Nothing new under the sun.

Reform brought about by a small revolutionary vanguard worked for Osiris, and it can work for TSP. It just requires the Delegate and a few trusted collaborators to have the will to do it, and it looks like we're halfway there already. Your attempt to use the Court to re-assert your power will, in all likelihood, provoke the last few steps that need to be taken. I'm sure it will be fun to watch!

[Crazy girl]

Unibot should be shunned and vilified, every time he crawls out of his hiding place, by anyone with any sense of decency and respect for women. Otherwise he'll just start playing again and victimizing more female players. So Syl's response to him was exactly as it should have been and yours is the one that needs work.

This is exactly the kind of personal attacks I do not want to see in the Gameplay forum.

Considering your relatively clean record, I will only make this a very stern *** warning *** but I will tell you all I will not tolerate further posts of this type.

Unlocked.

[The Brotherhood of the Sword]

I'm relatively new to TSP, but it was obvious even to me that there was something rotten in the state of Denmark; there was clearly a lot of tension between the elected government and the self-appointed admin team. It's sad that things became this bad, but in a choice between the elected government and a bunch of self-appointed admins I think it's fairly clear who has the legitimacy to run the region. Considering the people involved, I'm even more convinced of this; I've found both Hileville and Imki to be nothing but approachable, helpful and reasonable. The same hasn't been true about the old admin team.

[Solorni]

The more we learn about Glen-Rhodes, we are finding out he is more and more corrupt. I'm trying to figure out if he is more like a Mexican or an Italian politician. Although Glen-Rhodes lacks the same silly side as Berlusconi and his bunga bunga parties. Unless he has even more skeletons in his closet. Personally, I am glad to see TSP take these steps in the positive direction. It's pretty silly that GR who has freely admitted to manipulating TSP deeply in the past to the point where he has bragged about it, is complaining about this.

At the very least, TSP now has forums that do not take at least 3 seconds to load a page. The old ones always took me between 8-10 seconds to initially load up. To think they were paying for such a service.

[Ambroscus Koth]

Unibot should be shunned and vilified, every time he crawls out of his hiding place, by anyone with any sense of decency and respect for women. Otherwise he'll just start playing again and victimizing more female players. So Syl's response to him was exactly as it should have been and yours is the one that needs work.

This is exactly the kind of personal attacks I do not want to see in the Gameplay forum.

Considering your relatively clean record, I will only make this a very stern *** warning *** but I will tell you all I will not tolerate further posts of this type.

Unlocked.

MUH TOXICITY

Whatever you say, CG. Rich coming from someone who knows exactly why Cormac is saying these things.

On topic, if Hileville ever wants to hit me up, I'd be glad to repay him for the help he gave the OFO when we overthrew our terrible system, if he goes that route.

[Todd McCloud]

At the very least, TSP now has forums that do not take at least 3 seconds to load a page. The old ones always took me between 8-10 seconds to initially load up. To think they were paying for such a service.

You know, I have to admit, I do like the new forums for that reason especially. I'd usually get time-outs when I was navigating through the site.

Hopefully they can work something out so that this doesn't turn into a long, weird war of sorts.

[North East Somerset]

Fascinating, but not remotely surprising to see Unibot so blatantly crawl out of the woodwork to try and defend Glen-Rhodes and his corrupt agenda in TSP.

I said they were playing a "Good cop/bad cop" routine in TSP years ago to drive a shared defender agenda, but quite a few people fell for it.

And indeed since Glen Rhodes said on p19 on Miniluv that both he and Unibot made a "concerted push" to damage relations between TSP and it's non-defender allies, this whole concept has been validated.

The only surprising thing is that he quite clearly thinks he has a right to control TSP's affairs by abusing Admin powers after admitting all this. An astonishing audacity really.

[Tsunamy]

At the risk of getting more entangled in this, no one ever officially asked for the citizenship to be removed. At least, not to me. There were discussions but had an actual decision been communicated it would have been done.

Secondly, I find it suspect that the justice in the matter was (randomly) thrown into this action in a way to force him to recuse himself. This justice was selected over GR, by the Cabinet no less. And, they decide to strip his power to make sure he can't rule in this matter.

The longer this goes on and the more arguments I hear, the more convoluted this logic gets.

[Elegarth]

This whole deal is honestly not surprising, but at a personal level, saddening... what is whit TSP that you can't deal with this stuff without throwing a tantrum every so often?

However, as I have no sides on this, please let me know if there is any mediation that could be used to solve this discussion / argument between the two parties that I can help with, if at all.

[Glen-Rhodes]

... and the self-appointed admin team.

Lol the amount of historical revision ITT

Tsu, Kris, and me were all chosen by *Hileville* to be admins, back when he removed all the old admins on TSP's IPB forum, before he decided to delete those forums. We didn't appoint ourselves. Tsu had actually been an admin for years.

@NES: Yup, moving to the new server, making the forum more accessible, fixing the issue with the VD not being able to conduct accurate activity checks. All a plot to turn TSP defender! Without me ever being in government for the last half of the year. I'm good.

Anyways, I've submitted a case to our court over these illegal actions, and in the court they'll be settled. That is, if a Cabinet that has already committed a coup would even abide by an adverse opinion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RiderSyl]

Sorry, was riding out a blizzard, couldn't immediately reply to the false outrage towards my comment:

Mhmm good stuff. Randomly snark attack Unibot rather than dealing with his pretty accurate assessment of what looks to be happening here.

I don't have to deal with his assessment. I have zero stake in TSP or its affairs. I do, however, know that Uni was severely falling off the map and that this is a desperate cling to relevancy.

Why the cheap shot? If Hileville and his cabinet circumvented the assembly and violated the constitution then they deserve to be called out on it.

Yes, but by a credible source, not an ambulance chaser.

I was always under the impression that no matter what relevance someone holds; that they are welcome to an opinion and then to vocalise it. Mhm.

In a perfect world, maybe that's true.

Syl's response to him was exactly as it should have been and yours is the one that needs work.

Thanks Cormac.

[Unibot III]

I'm not an "ambulance chaser" - I absolutely was/is falling off the map but a personal telegram directed me to this debacle and in some ways I feel some personal responsibility for the crisis. Hileville's actions here are unconstitutional but it's also just another chain in a cycle of mistakes between Hileville, myself, Belschaft and others who could have resolved this crisis before it ever happened three years ago if we had all swallowed our pride and talked to each and come to some mutually acceptable administrative and political arrangement. That didn't happen and Tsunamy, Kringalia and Glen-Rhodes (all of three of them being great statesmen and contributors in TSP who don't deserve Cormac Stark's character assassinations here) were left to fill the administrative vacuum in the wake of Hileville's departure. Temper tantrum after temper tantrum has led the South Pacific to where it is today - and the most recent cabinet decision is simply another mistake. It's a comprehensively extra-constitutional, unconventional and illegal move, but it's also a very unwise move.

From experience, I will simply add that if the executives aren't willing to listen to the opposition that's forming among citizens in the Assembly right now, the forces of the South Pacific's greater social fabric (i.e., The Supreme Court, the CSS, the Local Council and grassroots supporters) will have to step up and ensure that the constitution is honoured and protocol is followed - it may not be an exaggeration to say the future of the Coalition's political stability depends on it; especially when one considers the basis for which this new society was created upon is simply the bullish contravention of constitutional and conventional practice for whatever political grievances might have surfaced this week. When a forum community is created out of a unilateral act of rash dissent it does not bode well for the future of said community or its successor. Again, I must ask: what happens when the next cabinet wants Hileville gone as admin? What then? Another forum move? TSP's n^th in the span of a few years. Don't like the CSS members? Kick 'em out! The basis of any society which hopes to achieve future stability must be the rule of law not the rule of one.

[Todd McCloud]

For all your talk of illegal actions, you seem to be ignoring the primary basis the Cabinet stated for voting to change forums: You were ignoring the Charter and refusing to appropriately re-mask someone whose citizenship had lapsed, because he is your friend, your political ally, and your fellow forum administrator.

Perhaps you should read the Legal Question, where this issue is addressed.

Perhaps Hileville and the Cabinet should have gone to the court to settle a disagreement over law, instead of couping the forums. (Or, maybe actually just have a real discussion with the admins about it, instead of immediately creating a new forum and planning a coup?)

If I wanted to protect Kris and have him keep his citizenship, I wouldn't have a created a tool specifically to ensure that the Vice Delegate had a 100% accurate account of when citizens made their last two posts. I wouldn't have made it literally impossible for admins to secretly not make any posts and then lie that, "oh yeah, he posted in the admin forum you just can't see it lol"

Hileville and the Cabinet coup'd the forums. They violated several provisions of the Charter to do it. Plain and simple.

The courts have been a mess since the previous Great Council, where a select few individuals removed its teeth one-by-one. The courts really cannot do anything in TSP anymore, unless some changes were made recently.

[Tsunamy]

Perhaps you should read the Legal Question, where this issue is addressed.

Perhaps Hileville and the Cabinet should have gone to the court to settle a disagreement over law, instead of couping the forums. (Or, maybe actually just have a real discussion with the admins about it, instead of immediately creating a new forum and planning a coup?)

If I wanted to protect Kris and have him keep his citizenship, I wouldn't have a created a tool specifically to ensure that the Vice Delegate had a 100% accurate account of when citizens made their last two posts. I wouldn't have made it literally impossible for admins to secretly not make any posts and then lie that, "oh yeah, he posted in the admin forum you just can't see it lol"

Hileville and the Cabinet coup'd the forums. They violated several provisions of the Charter to do it. Plain and simple.

The courts have been a mess since the previous Great Council, where a select few individuals removed its teeth one-by-one. The courts really cannot do anything in TSP anymore, unless some changes were made recently.

There was recently a new judicial procedure put in place Todd. The justice has been urged to recuse himself from the case — but this would have made a great test case of the new process.

[Blitze]

That sounds like a coup to me.

Not yet, but I can arrange that if you want?

*Blitze goes to get out the coup forms and hands them to Glen-Rhodes.* If you could just sign here please...