The Embassy of Albion

[The North Polish Union]

Ooh, you're getting personal now, Onder; obviously something's making you uncomfortable. What are you hiding? The fact that you were behind the WFE changes all along? It's OK, Onder, we all make mistakes once in a while...

No, I merely observed your penchant for throwing around ludicrous allegations against me and the LKE ever since the January 2014 invasion of Slavia. Anyone who has been a regular reader of this forum since that incident will be more than familiar with your vendetta and the lengths it has gone to.

That you are pretending that the logs contained in Cassius's post could be anything other than false is a new low, even in light of your previous arguments.

I have established that The United Imperial Armed Forces is not me, contrary to what is contained in those logs. You've got your demonstration of that - not that the logs actually need rebutting, when the people in them actually talk about getting the wrong screen name for me in the very text of the logs.

The fact is that The United Imperial Armed Forces historically belonged to Christopher Bishop and the evidence I posted above suggests that the nation was transferred to Cassius Cerebella. Albion was responsible for changing the WFEs and this is nothing more than a poor attempt to distract from that.

Oh come, Onder; you led awar against a defender org for reasons that I still do not fully comprehend that resulting in you griefing several regions and couping a GCR, actions absurdly far out of the scale of the incident(s) that started the war and now you're pretty much calling me petty? Please.

And who said I was pretending?

[Benevolent Thomas]

Yet you cannot deny that from an organization standpoint, that TGW is very similar to the UDL. Both are based on being organizations that draw upon people from other regions with no basis in a physical region (in the sense of 10KI) & are not an alliance of regions like FRA that drew upon people from those regions (rangers) or an alliance with a joint military (UIAF). You might emphasize the specific flavour of defender ideology that TGW has, but I think that the organization and the ideas that shape that organization shape the ideology more. You could have a region which has the specifics of what you say, but it would still be fundamentally different from TGW. That organization is very important (which is why I had opposed the creation of UIAF for example).

I'm not going to call you a liar just because we are emphasizing different things, but I think that if you look at what I am emphasizing you can see how I got to that conclusion.

I have and will continue to deny that we are similar to the UDL. We have a region that we directly recruit for that currently has nearly 200 members in it. A significant portion of our membership do originally hail from other places, but we also have a significant portion of our membership that call The Order of the Grey Wardens home.

I am calling you a liar because you claimed "TGW is run by former UDLer's and it makes sense why it would emulate the UDL" and that is entirely false. I called you out on that and you responded by shifting your argument to trying to find any similarities between the UDL and TGW. I once again countered your argument and now you're trying to sell it as us "emphasizing" different aspects of The Grey Wardens.

Do you agree that the UDL and TGW have different leadership? Do you acknowledge that the UDL and TGW ascribe to different ideologies of defending? Can you recognize that while TGW does allow nations from across the world to join our organization, we also have a 'home' region?

It is alright to admit that you were wrong. I'll forgive an unintentional mistake. Just don't try to shift the discussion in order to save face.

[Onderkelkia]

Onder, let me see if I understand your argument correctly. Despite "Prince" being a non-executive position, and the statement in question being posted from that individual's Albion nation, the statement nonetheless comes from an individual notoriously associated with Albion and therefore it is reasonable for consequences over the statement to apply to Albion. Am I correct so far?

No, you are incorrect.

Two days before the incident concerned, Cassius Cerebella posted a diplomatic statement on behalf of Albion. On the day of the incident concerned, he used his Embassies authority to commence construction of embassies with The Exalted Lands, the region he urged to invade TNI. His Embassies authority was briefly removed following the complaint, before being reinstated. Since this controversy began, he has publicly described the official thinking behind Albion statements. He has even made posts in this discussion explicitly representing the Government of Albion. These are all evidence of Cassius Cerebella functioning in an executive capacity, particularly in relation to this matter. Apart from being a Prince, he is a member of Albion's Vanguard of the Realm.

It should also be pointed out the Monarchy of Albion (unlike the Monarchy of Balder) has broad executive authority over the conduct of foreign affairs - greater than the authority of even the LKE Monarch (or previously TNI's Monarch). A Prince is a first-level subordinate of Albion's highest executive authority. If the Monarchy of Balder was executive in character, then it would be reasonable to apply the same standards to Crown Prince NES as to Queen Solorni.

Furthermore, you misunderstand TNI's problem with Cassius's actions. It's not a question of Cassius Cerebella's views or opinions being attributed to Albion. If that was indeed the issue, then the LKE would have had grounds to file a complaint with almost every other post he has made in the Gameplay forum since 2015, yet we have refrained from doing so. He has made dozens of statements that the LKE would have complained about if they represented Albion.

Article 1, Section 2 of the Albion-TNI Treaty bars Albion from "directly or indirectly" supporting military operations against TNI. Compliance with this provision demands more than that Albion avoids officially supporting such actions (i.e. making an official statement of foreign policy which supports military action against TNI). The Treaty imposes a higher standard than that avoiding official support. If they are permitting members of their regional leadership to support military operations against TNI, then they are providing indirect support to those operations. That is why Albion is in breach of the Treaty.

Oh come, Onder; you led awar against a defender org for reasons that I still do not fully comprehend that resulting in you griefing several regions and couping a GCR, actions absurdly far out of the scale of the incident(s) that started the war and now you're pretty much calling me petty? Please.

I merely identified your motivation for advancing such ludicrous arguments. I did not comment on whether that motive was petty or not.

The Founderless Regions Alliance invaded a colony of TNI in December 2006 and a colony of the LKE in May 2010. Infringing TNI or LKE sovereignty means war. Both TNI and the LKE's general approaches to declaring war were not my personal designs but established regional policies which were originally determined by others in both cases. In the course of the wars (while claiming not to recognise them most of the time), the FRA committed acts of sabotage and espionage against both TNI and the LKE, reaffirming that they were a threat to our security and convincing us that further action was warranted.

[Deadeye Jack]

Both are based on being organizations that draw upon people from other regions with no basis in a physical region (in the sense of 10KI) & are not an alliance of regions like FRA that drew upon people from those regions (rangers) or an alliance with a joint military (UIAF).

The Order of the Grey Wardens is a thing that exists that we actually recruit from. Though I think it would be fair to say that word of mouth has been a more effective recruitment tool for us when compared head to head with our telegram related efforts.

[Solorni]

Yet you cannot deny that from an organization standpoint, that TGW is very similar to the UDL. Both are based on being organizations that draw upon people from other regions with no basis in a physical region (in the sense of 10KI) & are not an alliance of regions like FRA that drew upon people from those regions (rangers) or an alliance with a joint military (UIAF). You might emphasize the specific flavour of defender ideology that TGW has, but I think that the organization and the ideas that shape that organization shape the ideology more. You could have a region which has the specifics of what you say, but it would still be fundamentally different from TGW. That organization is very important (which is why I had opposed the creation of UIAF for example).

I'm not going to call you a liar just because we are emphasizing different things, but I think that if you look at what I am emphasizing you can see how I got to that conclusion.

I have and will continue to deny that we are similar to the UDL. We have a region that we directly recruit for that currently has nearly 200 members in it. A significant portion of our membership do originally hail from other places, but we also have a significant portion of our membership that call The Order of the Grey Wardens home.

I am calling you a liar because you claimed "TGW is run by former UDLer's and it makes sense why it would emulate the UDL" and that is entirely false. I called you out on that and you responded by shifting your argument to trying to find any similarities between the UDL and TGW. I once again countered your argument and now you're trying to sell it as us "emphasizing" different aspects of The Grey Wardens.

Do you agree that the UDL and TGW have different leadership? Do you acknowledge that the UDL and TGW ascribe to different ideologies of defending? Can you recognize that while TGW does allow nations from across the world to join our organization, we also have a 'home' region?

It is alright to admit that you were wrong. I'll forgive an unintentional mistake. Just don't try to shift the discussion in order to save face.

It's not shifting the argument when my entire point has been and has always been that TGW is the new UDL. Perhaps I got certain points wrong as I have generally been in a rush today, but the main points stands. TGW is the new UDL and this is exemplified by how they are treated in the GCRs. I think it is obvious that you are trying to save face by pointing out specific differences.

It's like if I say that defender organizations which primarily recruit from other places (they aren't like 10KI or FRA) are dogs. So we know that the UDL is a dog. But you're telling me that TGW is not a dog because it has a longer tail, different ears and five spots on its coat. You're completely convinced that you have something completely different when in reality they are both dogs. Now, I may have gotten specific things wrong or over generalized about your dog. I said that your dog had a short tail and that it had four spots. You are completely upset because you think that because I got the length of your dogs tail wrong and the number of spots on it, that I am completely wrong when I call it a dog. You are probably upset because it's your dog! Not like that dirty UDL mutt! But minor differences do not make different breeds of dogs different species in the same way that the UDL and TGW are not fundamentally different.

So I apologize if I got certain specifics wrong. But the main point stands, TGW and the UDL were cut from the same cloth and are extremely similar.

[Kylia Quilor]

TGW is clearly a Mabari, Rach!

[Ancient and Noble House of Ravenclaw]

TGW is clearly a Mabari, Rach!

I don't think Rach will get that reference.

[Solorni]

TGW is clearly a Mabari, Rach!

I don't think Rach will get that reference.

I did not and had to google it. I thought about getting the last Dragon Age but then didn't. Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

But thanks for assuming my game preference :/

[Kylia Quilor]

I don't think Rach will get that reference.

I did not and had to google it. I thought about getting the last Dragon Age but then didn't. Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

But thanks for assuming my game preference :/

Several other Dragon Age references have appeared to go over your head before, Rach. I didn't think you'd get it automatically either.

As for the lie that is the second to last sentence in your post - this isn't the place for that discussion,

[Ancient and Noble House of Ravenclaw]

I don't think Rach will get that reference.

I did not and had to google it. I thought about getting the last Dragon Age but then didn't. Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

But thanks for assuming my game preference :/

You'd need to have played Dragon Age: Origins as the Human Noble Origin to understand the comment, since the Mabari is a fundamental part of the Origin story.

Aka the same background as Melysande Cousland - the Discord bot I use for TNP, TEP and Alexandria's servers.

[Drasnia]

I don't think Rach will get that reference.

Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

I am sorry for your loss.

[Tananat]

I didn't realise I'd wondered into the TGW thread.

[Kylia Quilor]

I did not and had to google it. I thought about getting the last Dragon Age but then didn't. Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

But thanks for assuming my game preference :/

You'd need to have played Dragon Age: Origins as the Human Noble Origin to understand the comment, since the Mabari is a fundamental part of the Origin story.

Aka the same background as Melysande Cousland - the Discord bot I use for TNP, TEP and Alexandria's servers.

Mabari do show up in other parts of the game series, Ravenclaw

[Lord Ravenclaw]

You'd need to have played Dragon Age: Origins as the Human Noble Origin to understand the comment, since the Mabari is a fundamental part of the Origin story.

Aka the same background as Melysande Cousland - the Discord bot I use for TNP, TEP and Alexandria's servers.

Mabari do show up in other parts of the game series, Ravenclaw

They do yes, but the largest single part of the lore regarding them and their intelligence comes up at the start of the Human Noble Origin, Quilor.

[Tancerlo]

Got the much superior BioWare game Mass Effect Andromeda

I am sorry for your loss.

Hey I actually liked Andromeda.

[Kylia Quilor]

I am sorry for your loss.

Hey I actually liked Andromeda.

I did too, but I think DA:I and DA2 were superior games.

[Altmoras]

I didn't realise I'd wondered into the TGW thread.

Every thread is the TGW thread bby.

[Tancerlo]

DA2

Now that may be the most controversial thing said in this thread.

[An Amphibious Equation]

DA2

Now that may be the most controversial thing said in this thread.

You speak the truth.

[Kylia Quilor]

Merrill is perfect and amazing, and personally, I thought the framed narrative device was wonderful. Plus, my Red/Purple Hawke is my favorite DA player character.