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Todd McCloud
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Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:25 am

Ravania Prima wrote:Das Imperium a Nazi-region? Who gave you that info?

Maybe you should read this. :p

So they declared war on the GGR. You mean fascist regions are not allowed to fight one another?
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Ravania Prima
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Founded: Aug 30, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ravania Prima » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:31 am

Todd McCloud wrote:
Ravania Prima wrote:Das Imperium a Nazi-region? Who gave you that info?

Maybe you should read this. :p

So they declared war on the GGR. You mean fascist regions are not allowed to fight one another?


Ah, now we get somewhere. UDL doesn't have a policy on fascist regions, so we defend and liberate them. That's what we do, you know.

But still Das Imperium isn't a fascist region, it's an imperialistic region... well a little German might help you to understand.
Das Imperium is German for The Empire.
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Of the Free Socialist Territories
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8370
Founded: Feb 12, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Of the Free Socialist Territories » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:15 am

Todd McCloud wrote:
Ravania Prima wrote:Das Imperium a Nazi-region? Who gave you that info?

Maybe you should read this. :p

So they declared war on the GGR. You mean fascist regions are not allowed to fight one another?


It has, as far as I am aware, had the "Anti-Fascist" tag for at least the past 12 months.
Don't be deceived when our Revolution has finally been stamped out and they tell you things are better now even if there's no poverty to see, because the poverty's been hidden...even if you ever got more wages and could afford to buy more of these new and useless goods which these new industries foist on you, and even if it seems to you that "you never had so much" - that is only the slogan of those who have much more than you.

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Todd McCloud
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:21 am

Ravania Prima wrote:
Todd McCloud wrote:So they declared war on the GGR. You mean fascist regions are not allowed to fight one another?


Ah, now we get somewhere. UDL doesn't have a policy on fascist regions, so we defend and liberate them. That's what we do, you know.

But still Das Imperium isn't a fascist region, it's an imperialistic region... well a little German might help you to understand.
Das Imperium is German for The Empire.

You're going to put all these barbers out of a job with the amount of hair-splitting in this thread.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
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Sovreignry
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Founded: Sep 14, 2011
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Sovreignry » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:38 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
Ravania Prima wrote:
Ah, now we get somewhere. UDL doesn't have a policy on fascist regions, so we defend and liberate them. That's what we do, you know.

But still Das Imperium isn't a fascist region, it's an imperialistic region... well a little German might help you to understand.
Das Imperium is German for The Empire.

You're going to put all these barbers out of a job with the amount of hair-splitting in this thread.


So, Japan prior to and during WWII was Nazi?
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You're supposed to be employing the arts of diplomacy, not the ruddy great thumping sledgehammers of diplomacy. -Ardchoille
It would be easier just to incorporate a "Grief Region" button, so you wouldn't even need to make the effort to do the actual raiding. Players could just bounce from region to region and destroy everyone else's efforts at will, without even bothering about WA status. Wouldn't that be nice. -Frisbeeteria

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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:12 pm

Or are you trying to say that being German makes someone a Nazi?
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Ravania Prima
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Founded: Aug 30, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ravania Prima » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:29 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
Ravania Prima wrote:
Ah, now we get somewhere. UDL doesn't have a policy on fascist regions, so we defend and liberate them. That's what we do, you know.

But still Das Imperium isn't a fascist region, it's an imperialistic region... well a little German might help you to understand.
Das Imperium is German for The Empire.

You're going to put all these barbers out of a job with the amount of hair-splitting in this thread.


Hmmm, my youngest daughter just pointed me at the fact that when her hair is splitting, she has to go to the barber...

But okay, when I have to explain something to her I sometimes use a fairytale, maybe that might help here.

The Lost Empire

Once upon a time (1 year and 128 days ago) the knight with the flaming shield discovered a region unknown to mankind. He called it 'Das Imperium', which simply means the empire in an old European language, which was his mothertongue. The region soon prospered and became known as an imperialistic region, who fought great wars outside its borders with other regions that also used that old European language, but claimed to be national socialistic. The knight gave the key to the region to a wizard who lead the region in his stead, while the knight visited various other regions to leave his mark. But the wizard disappeared in one of his spells and took the key with him. The region lost a lot of its glory and became a forgotten realm until one day little red riding hood discovered the beautiful place and planted a seed in its forest. The seed remained dormant for a long time, but suddenly it flowered and attracted red butterflies from all over the world. These red butterflies thought the region named in this old European language was also national socialistic and soon seedlings of the plant overgrew the entire region. Young princes and paupers heard of this mythical place and tried to enter the region, to give it back to the knight with the flaming shield. But their first attempts failed, although friends of the knight came to their aid... (To be continued)
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Cormac Stark
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Founded: Apr 11, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormac Stark » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:35 pm

Das Imperium is not nor has it ever been a fascist region. It's an imperialist region. You're just wrong here, Todd; unless you think that having a German name or theme makes a region fascist. In which case you're still wrong, but more laughably so.

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Karputsk
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Karputsk » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:48 pm

I have addressed Das Imperium in another topic, needless to say it wasn't an invasion nor is Das Imperium a Nazi/Fascist region.
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Babiana
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Founded: Jul 23, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Babiana » Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:49 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
(Image)
Actual image of the defender policy for dealing with Nazi regions, photobombed by a Todd


Defenders Confused by Nazi Regions

At a conference somewhere: in what has been a series of blunders and backtracks this week, defender regions have continuously shot themselves in the foot over the question of what to do with Nazi regions. And as it turns out, had they simply done nothing, the Free Press News Service would be covering Todd's departure as delegate of TEP. So, obviously this is the better and more slaptastic story. We'll probably cover that other story on a slower news day. So defenders: stop being confusing and we'll be able to go back to our regularly scheduled programming!

Our coverage began with the canceling of the UDL-TEP treaty, a move which both sides are apparently not that broken up over. The cancellation was due to a number of reasons and shortcomings, but seemed to fall on one major issue: the Nazi region question. TEP was all "hey, we don't like the badspam so we're going to take GGR's embassies away cause that seems to be the only way we can impress upon them to stop." UDL was all "hey, don't do that! We don't like Nazis except when it comes to their embassies in non-Nazi regions! Leave 'em alone, we say! LEAVE BRITTANY NAZIS ALONE!" Anyway that among other reasons seemed to end the discussion. And that's exactly how it happened.

Enter two nights ago, when a coalition of nations attempted to invade Nazi Europe. Led by the rebranded "Fascist Reinforcement Alliance" (FRA) and other members (including UDL nations), defender stormtroopers and SS guards goose-stepped into the region and endorsed the delegate to secure the region for the Nazis. But wait, according to our last issue, the UDL doesn't support Nazis and would not help them in an invasion. Is that right? Or were they simply flying under the banner of the Fascist Reinforcement Alliance (who are mulling over adopting a "seig heil!" in their motto this very minute) in an attempt to dodge their own credo? And if that's the case, what's the point of a particular group having a stance on anything if all one has to do is change hats?

Earlier that day, defenders apparently invaded Das Imperium to remove the rightful delegate there, German Eagle, as pointed out in this post. It wasn't successful, but the fact remains: in the span of less than 24 hours, defenders invaded one fascist region, then defended another.

It's clear to the Free Press News Service that defenders don't know what to do with Nazi regions. First they don't like them but will support their embassies established with non-Nazi regions. Then they invade a Nazi region. Later on, they defend a Nazi region with a multitude of troops. So... what is exactly going on here?

"Back in my day, you chose a stance and stuck to it," Todd McCloud said while waving a cane he bought at the dollar store. You know, the cheap wooden one with a poorly-painted dragon on it an a marble on the handle. "That included sides, values, whatever. I mean, if you changed over from raiding to defending, you were more or less blackballed by the raiders, and looked upon with suspicion by defenders for years. For years I tells ya! And while values and specifics could morph over a career, they didn't turn on a dime within 24 hours! Where are the old ways of thought? Where have all the flowers gone? Why can't we have nice things?"

We turned off his mic to prevent a long rant. But still, it does raise a few interesting points. Where is the consistency here? Where are the hardline stances that ebb the nebulous tendencies of modern defenderism? Who is in charge of this stuff, and do they meet regularly to keep their stories / ideals straight? It remains to be seen, but Free Press News Service wonders if these groups will learn from the blunders of this week and get back to a consensus on what to do with these Nazi regions for the near future. Time will tell.

Todd your writing is really amazing, please never stop :)

Despite them being the enemy, I do feel compelled to stick up for the UDL here. They defend every region in every way they can manage. The only reason they make an exception for Nazi regions is the UDL members voted on that policy because their members are human players who cannot stand defending Nazis, due to RL limitations. In all other respects defending trumps the anti-nazi crusade and I don't think it's that weird for the game to be played that way. Of course it wouldn't really be called a crusade if it wasn't being prosecuted overzealously.

Don't let me impede the zeal and the zest, I just can't resist commenting. Why would anyone commit themselves to the defender cause when we have something so exciting to join in?

Why not label TEP a raider region, then you get to pick an R/D side and attack Nazi-related regions too?

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The North Polish Union
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Moralistic Democracy

Postby The North Polish Union » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:11 pm

The UDL and FRA's defense of NAZI EUROPE is despicable, as well as being in clear violation of the UDL's policy on Nazi regions.
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Tano
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Ex-Nation

Postby Tano » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:17 pm

Despite them being the enemy, I do feel compelled to stick up for the UDL here.


Wait, UDL is considered the enemy? How come I didn't know this?


Why not label TEP a raider region, then you get to pick an R/D side and attack Nazi-related regions too?


Despite the fact that we have so far only done raids (as far as I know) I do envision potential defense missions too, perhaps maybe liberating regions that were taken from us. I don't think we should be labled as raiders yet, until someone high up (like AMOM) declares we are.
However, I do agree that so far we've had a mostly raider agenda.
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Klaus Devestatorie
Minister
 
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Founded: Aug 28, 2008
Anarchy

Postby Klaus Devestatorie » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:42 pm

As the former MoFA of Unknown back in the day when Unknown had Foreign Relations with Das Imperium, which in turn was back in the day when Das Imperium had a functioning rp government, founder, forum, etc, I can tell you with 100% certainty that Das Imperium is not and never has been a fascist or Nazi region. Indeed, if I recall correctly, when the members of The Great Kingdom of Prussia grew tired of Nazism and split off en masse from GGR to form that region, Das Imperium was one of the first regions they tried to start foreign relations with, because of perceived distance from Nazism. To claim that Das Imperium is in any way a Nazi region is blatant slander.

</discussion>
Last edited by Klaus Devestatorie on Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Dark
Secretary
 
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Dark » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:49 pm

Indeed, in my time as WAD of Das Imperium, we were certainly not aligned with any particular ideology, fascism or otherwise.
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Todd McCloud
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Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:49 pm

Cormac Stark wrote:Das Imperium is not nor has it ever been a fascist region. It's an imperialist region. You're just wrong here, Todd; unless you think that having a German name or theme makes a region fascist. In which case you're still wrong, but more laughably so.

I'm not the one who invaded the region.

Free Press News Service is merely reporting based on factual evidence gained at the time of the writing. The news service reserves the right to conduct manners as it sees fit and will alter facts if it feels compelled to do so. Again, we are only reporting what we find. We did not invade this region, so we are forced to connect the dots here.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Todd McCloud
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:50 pm

The Dark wrote:Indeed, in my time as WAD of Das Imperium, we were certainly not aligned with any particular ideology, fascism or otherwise.

FPNS apologizes for this distinction. As is proper, we will alter our edition to omit this.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Todd McCloud
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Founded: Oct 11, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Todd McCloud » Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:56 pm

Todd McCloud wrote:
The Dark wrote:Indeed, in my time as WAD of Das Imperium, we were certainly not aligned with any particular ideology, fascism or otherwise.

FPNS apologizes for this distinction. As is proper, we will alter our edition to omit this.

Article has been updated. Once again, we apologize for the branding - please let us know if we still have portrayed your region in a bad light.
Last edited by Todd McCloud on Sun Jun 16, 2013 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Your uniform doesn't seem to fit. You're much too alive in it."

"You must be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
"The worst prison would be a closed heart." - Pope John Paul II

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Tim-Opolis
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Founded: Feb 17, 2010
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Tim-Opolis » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:47 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:The UDL and FRA's defense of NAZI EUROPE is despicable, as well as being in clear violation of the UDL's policy on Nazi regions.


*raises an eyebrow and puts on his Chief of Foreign Affairs hat*

Really? Really? Please tell me where the United Defenders League stated any association with the Defense of Nazi Europe. I'll happily answer.. Nowhere.

The United Defenders League did not participate in any such defense. You may have been mislead to think this due to a few of our members participating in the Defense. However, they were doing this of their own free will and were not acting under the banner of the Greenwood Band. Although the United Defenders League does not condone the invasion of any region, we do not defend, or liberate Nazi Regions from invasions. Our individual members are free to do as they wish, but they do not represent the UDL if partaking in defenses of Nazis.
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Cerian Quilor
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Iron Fist Socialists

Postby Cerian Quilor » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:50 pm

Are you really going to trot that out again?
Never underestimate the power of cynicism, pessimism and negativity to prevent terrible things from happening. Only idealists try to build the future on a mountain of bodies.

The Thing to Remember About NationStates is that it is an almost entirely social game - fundamentally, you have no power beyond your own ability to convince people to go along with your ideas. In that sense, even the most dictatorial region is fundamentally democratic.

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Feux
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Founded: Mar 20, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Feux » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:51 pm

Tim-Opolis wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:The UDL and FRA's defense of NAZI EUROPE is despicable, as well as being in clear violation of the UDL's policy on Nazi regions.


*raises an eyebrow and puts on his Chief of Foreign Affairs hat*

Really? Really? Please tell me where the United Defenders League stated any association with the Defense of Nazi Europe. I'll happily answer.. Nowhere.

The United Defenders League did not participate in any such defense. You may have been mislead to think this due to a few of our members participating in the Defense. However, they were doing this of their own free will and were not acting under the banner of the Greenwood Band. Although the United Defenders League does not condone the invasion of any region, we do not defend, or liberate Nazi Regions from invasions. Our individual members are free to do as they wish, but they do not represent the UDL if partaking in defenses of Nazis.

I always think that is to good of a loop hole when I hear it. Not jack you can do about it though. :p
Last edited by Feux on Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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South Eastern North Western Prussia
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Founded: Jun 16, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby South Eastern North Western Prussia » Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:57 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:Are you really going to trot that out again?

Same UDL, different Chief of the Band.

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Mahaj
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Posts: 4110
Founded: Dec 08, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Mahaj » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:02 pm

Cerian Quilor wrote:Are you really going to trot that out again?

You honestly believe that every action you commit, you personally, is an official action of TNI and Kantrias?
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<+frattastan> Because his region was never raided.
<+maxbarry> EarthAway: I guess I might dabble in raiding just to experience it better, but I would not like to raid regions of natives, so I'd probably be more interested in defense and liberations

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SkyDip
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Posts: 1735
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby SkyDip » Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:06 pm

Mahaj wrote:
Cerian Quilor wrote:Are you really going to trot that out again?

You honestly believe that every action you commit, you personally, is an official action of TNI and Kantrias?

*Europeia. :P Missed one.
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Solm
Senator
 
Posts: 3582
Founded: Jul 23, 2008
Corporate Bordello

Postby Solm » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:01 pm

Did I stumble into the UDL thread by accident? I really did mean to read more fairy tales and funny Todd quotes rather than quibbles.

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PrussianEmpire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 907
Founded: Dec 19, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby PrussianEmpire » Sun Jun 16, 2013 7:11 pm

Typical UDL. Nothing about this is surprising.
—« The PrussianEmpire From The East Pacific »—

The contents of the above post represent the views of Exshaw, the Imperial Legion, the United Defenders League, the Founderless Regions Alliance, the New Inquisition, the Black Hawks, the North Pacific, the Alliance Defense Network, the Atlantic Central Command, Francos Spain, Dwight Eisenhower, and the 1998 New York Yankees.

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