SPINN Presents: Nazi's in NationStates

[Southern Bellz]

Hello, and welcome to SPINN Presents. A platform The South Pacific Independent News Network will use to explore specific topics in NS. Our goal is to foster discussion on the topic, so feel free to post in between the articles we will be posting on the subject.

Our first issue of SPINN presents is on NationStates Nazis. This is a topic I find to be very interesting because unlike a lot of other 'NS ideologies', Nazism is one that has a real life tie and has been specifically protected in NS. Over the last few months it has also been getting more attention around NS, from various wars declared on Nazi regions to the UDL making policy changes on how to react to Nazis.

It really issue an issue where regions react much differently then they would otherwise. A specific example is one I was involved in at DEN. DEN and our bitter rivals of the time, the Pacific Defenders teamed up to raid a Nazi region. This is despite the fact that both regions fought daily at update and that the Pacific Defenders key member was an ex-DEN turn coat. For a moment there was unity between the two groups in order to take a stand against real life hate.

So, us at SPINN want to take the time to learn more about what role Nazi's play in NS and how this small group impacts the rest of the game. I hope you enjoy SPINN's coverage of this topic, and if you wish to contribute to this topic or future NS presents topics, please Telegram me!!


Now to kick us off, I have asked a handful of players this question: Do you think liberating a Nazi region just so it can be raided is justified? Why or why not?


Rachel Anumia- Balder:

Personally, I do not like the idea of liberating a Nazi region so that it may be raided. You're talking about removing a regions ability to close its borders and I don't think that the fact that it is Nazi is good enough to warrant this. I can't recall an instance prior to this when it was felt that a liberation should go against the wishes of the region. Furthermore, it's not like the closing of their borders hasn't damaged them. They can't recruit and will continue to slowly decline, it's like a trade embargo on them and I'm perfectly content with that resolution. I don't understand this need for blood by people, because this is achieving the same thing and it is enough. There is no need to further vengeful aims against them except for personal anger and peoples need to see them destroyed. It's too much

Mahaj- Defender:

I don't think its justified. There are two or so reasons for this:

One is that if we use the Liberation resolution once to invade a region, it opens up a terrible precedent of using the SC to forcibly raid a region. We didn't like it when Nazi Europe tried it, and we shouldn't like it now. It cheapens liberation resolutions and could harm the chances of a Liberation in the future for a region that truly needs it.

I also believe that in a situation where the region isn't harming anybody, there isn't any need to do something like this, regardless of their ideology.

Zemnaya Svoboda- former TNP Delegate:

Zemnaya Svoboda believes that a properly presented Liberation of a region which inherently egregiously runs counter to the Security Council's values of interregional peace and goodwill may be Liberated offensively.

Mallorea and Riva- The Black Hawks:

I think it is an interesting question, and an answer would really depend on the perspective of the player. Personally I believe it is justified, but then again I think that all raiding is justified. For those who are not normally raiders, but neutrals, it is justified because hey, who doesn't love trashing nazis? For Defenders though, it is not. Defenders should never seek to use raiding as a means to any end against a community.

A Mean Old Man- Honorary Pacifican:

I don't think that the region's Nazism should be the justification for the liberation. I regard Nazism as a repulsive ideology, which is why I believe we should do as much as we can to ignore it in NS and suffocate its proponents' attempts to gain activity and numbers. If we're talking about NE specifically here, I think a very good case for a liberation-followed-by-destruction could be made regarding that region's idiosyncratic history in the gameplay world, but I also feel like it's sort of late for that.

Hileville- Former Delegate of The South Pacific:

It is most certainly justified. The belief and practice of promoting Nazism is disgusting and shouldn't even be allowed in NationStates. You won't here me say this often but I believe that any Nazi region should be taken and pound into the ground. If people want to spread such controversial beliefs they should not have the ability to run and hid in a region by creating a password and preventing those who don't share the same beliefs from acting against them.

ArgenReich, Former Minister of Interior of the Greater German Reich:

I believe it is not justified at all. Of course, as we reject the World Assembly, and our socialist enemies dominate it, it was obvius they were going to come up with something like this, using some sort of legal gap. It is not justified, because it's like....how to say it? Playing dirty. We, the "evil nazis-fascist-nationalists-capitalists" never did something like that]

Blackbird- TPC:

Liberating any region or taking any action to help raiders is not justified.

For more please check the TSP forums: http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/8515730/1/

[Feux]

It's completely justified. Whether or not you believe they are trolls or believe they should just be left alone or have your little policies to go by, they are Nazis and it is disgusting to all accounts and any effort to help remove some of them is completely fine with me.

[Cerian Quilor]

I think its rather stupid to do, but I support it as a watering down of the Liberation Resolution.

[Milograd]

I believe that it is absolutely justified.

They know exactly what they're doing, they know that it's wrong, and they're a stain on this game. Feux is correct.

[Andacantra]

If they're not actively harming anyone - going and spreading stuff around other regions etc - then we are not the ones to judge or any of the rest of it. They've got every right to be here, and yes, a lot of them are trolls, and attempts to eradicate them only -feed- that and make them more likely to become noisy pains in the necks.

There are people who act much worse in this game than any of the supposed Nazis, and while they promote a hateful ideology, they're not the only ones. Rather than pratting about in the SC, we're much better off ignoring them, in the same way we ignore other groups that we dislike..oh, wait

If people want to pursue an agenda against a group of people, that's entirely up to them. But I won't support it for a second.

[Jamie Anumia]

No. It's not justified. I don't like the nazi ideology. But, I think they should be left alone and they have every right to hold the views that they do and well as play this game - they are also not the only group which holds hateful views. Regardless, If they do something wrong (such as breaking the rules), report them. Otherwise, I think they should just be left alone. I have no objection to the war against adspam taken by the GCR's, I object to it being because of them being nazis. It should be all, or nothing at all in regards to adspam, not just against one group of regions which happen to hold a particular ideology. Attacking their regions just gives them unneeded attention.

[Southern Bellz]

If they're not actively harming anyone - going and spreading stuff around other regions etc - then we are not the ones to judge or any of the rest of it. They've got every right to be here, and yes, a lot of them are trolls, and attempts to eradicate them only -feed- that and make them more likely to become noisy pains in the necks.

There are people who act much worse in this game than any of the supposed Nazis, and while they promote a hateful ideology, they're not the only ones. Rather than pratting about in the SC, we're much better off ignoring them, in the same way we ignore other groups that we dislike..oh, wait

If people want to pursue an agenda against a group of people, that's entirely up to them. But I won't support it for a second.

I think you will be very surprised at some of our further coverage on this topic.

[Drop Your Pants]

It's completely justified. Whether or not you believe they are trolls or believe they should just be left alone or have your little policies to go by, they are Nazis and it is disgusting to all accounts and any effort to help remove some of them is completely fine with me.

So you'd just spread them over NS instead of having them all gathered together?

[North East Somerset]

Look, you can't go wrong with a bit of nazi-bashing. It's an age old favourite. Ignore my beloved but mistaken wife, and burn the Nazis! Populist rabble-rousing sentiment ftw. Get out yer pitchforks ppl.

[Cerian Quilor]

If burning the Nazis is where you find your kicks, go right ahead. I'll do something more productive over here, thank you very much.

Now, if you want to liberate a region Nazis have invaded, I'm totally willing to come along and help you if you need an extra guy as that is another thing entirely.

[Cormac Stark]

If burning the Nazis is where you find your kicks, go right ahead. I'll do something more productive over here, thank you very much.

Now, if you want to liberate a region Nazis have invaded, I'm totally willing to come along and help you if you need an extra guy as that is another thing entirely.

I will bear that in mind. I've also marked on my calendar that February 23 was the day Cerian Quilor offered to liberate a region.

I think we all know how I feel on this topic, having been (I think) the first person to try to liberate a Nazi region to enable a raid. Any action against Nazis in NationStates is justified because they advocate a RL ideology of hatred and murder, and we as a community shouldn't have to tolerate their presence.

[Cerian Quilor]

If burning the Nazis is where you find your kicks, go right ahead. I'll do something more productive over here, thank you very much.

Now, if you want to liberate a region Nazis have invaded, I'm totally willing to come along and help you if you need an extra guy as that is another thing entirely.

I will bear that in mind. I've also marked on my calendar that February 23 was the day Cerian Quilor offered to liberate a region.

I think we all know how I feel on this topic, having been (I think) the first person to try to liberate a Nazi region to enable a raid. Any action against Nazis in NationStates is justified because they advocate a RL ideology of hatred and murder, and we as a community shouldn't have to tolerate their presence.

I was in on the liberation of TUKB. I guess following TNIAF orders doesn't quite count as offering, but still.

[Unibot III]

If burning the Nazis is where you find your kicks, go right ahead. I'll do something more productive over here, thank you very much.

Now, if you want to liberate a region Nazis have invaded, I'm totally willing to come along and help you if you need an extra guy as that is another thing entirely.

God, this is weird. That's exactly my sentiments on the subject, basically. Weird. >_> I need to go check my philosophy, I must have something wrong.

[Cerian Quilor]

If burning the Nazis is where you find your kicks, go right ahead. I'll do something more productive over here, thank you very much.

Now, if you want to liberate a region Nazis have invaded, I'm totally willing to come along and help you if you need an extra guy as that is another thing entirely.

God, this is weird. That's exactly my sentiments on the subject, basically. Weird. >_> I need to go check my philosophy, I must have something wrong.

Come to the raider side. We have cookies.

[New Rogernomics]

I don't mind either way, they can be annoying I must admit; depends on your tolerance level.

[Feux]

It's completely justified. Whether or not you believe they are trolls or believe they should just be left alone or have your little policies to go by, they are Nazis and it is disgusting to all accounts and any effort to help remove some of them is completely fine with me.

So you'd just spread them over NS instead of having them all gathered together?

No, I'd rather them leave the game. I think it is more of a symbolic thing to me, not sure what I mean by that but it sounds right. Basicly if it as any chance of getting them to leave the game I'll take it. The thing is, people like to say it doesn't affect anyone if we leave them alone, however, some kid with nothing better to do will find this game and find themselves roleplaying nazi and it just starts from there until those views begin to reflect on their real lifes. Whether or not other individuals believe this is entirely up to them, but I've seen it happen and it disgust me that they picked up these believes from behaviors from a game I happen to enjoy.

[Cerian Quilor]

So you'd just spread them over NS instead of having them all gathered together?

No, I'd rather them leave the game. I think it is more of a symbolic thing to me, not sure what I mean by that but it sounds right. Basicly if it as any chance of getting them to leave the game I'll take it. The thing is, people like to say it doesn't affect anyone if we leave them alone, however, some kid with nothing better to do will find this game and find themselves roleplaying nazi and it just starts from there until those views begin to reflect on their real lifes. Whether or not other individuals believe this is entirely up to them, but I've seen it happen and it disgust me that they picked up these believes from behaviors from a game I happen to enjoy.

I roleplayed as an SS officer in a game of GURPS sent in WWII. I didn't make me a Nazi.

And raiding doesn't make people leave the game in of itself. Moreover, the regions you Antifa/Etc types raid are, in like 99% of the cases, beyond dead anyway.

[Feux]

No, I'd rather them leave the game. I think it is more of a symbolic thing to me, not sure what I mean by that but it sounds right. Basicly if it as any chance of getting them to leave the game I'll take it. The thing is, people like to say it doesn't affect anyone if we leave them alone, however, some kid with nothing better to do will find this game and find themselves roleplaying nazi and it just starts from there until those views begin to reflect on their real lifes. Whether or not other individuals believe this is entirely up to them, but I've seen it happen and it disgust me that they picked up these believes from behaviors from a game I happen to enjoy.

I roleplayed as an SS officer in a game of GURPS sent in WWII. I didn't make me a Nazi.

And raiding doesn't make people leave the game in of itself. Moreover, the regions you Antifa/Etc types raid are, in like 99% of the cases, beyond dead anyway.

Wasn't referring to you, wasn't even saying it happens every time, but it has happened. And like I said, it's symbolic.

[LAWLOSLOVAKIA]

Hating on someone because of their political ideals, is no different than hating on people who prefer their oreos to be "uh-oh".

[Southern Bellz]

No, I'd rather them leave the game. I think it is more of a symbolic thing to me, not sure what I mean by that but it sounds right. Basicly if it as any chance of getting them to leave the game I'll take it. The thing is, people like to say it doesn't affect anyone if we leave them alone, however, some kid with nothing better to do will find this game and find themselves roleplaying nazi and it just starts from there until those views begin to reflect on their real lifes. Whether or not other individuals believe this is entirely up to them, but I've seen it happen and it disgust me that they picked up these believes from behaviors from a game I happen to enjoy.

I roleplayed as an SS officer in a game of GURPS sent in WWII. I didn't make me a Nazi.

And raiding doesn't make people leave the game in of itself. Moreover, the regions you Antifa/Etc types raid are, in like 99% of the cases, beyond dead anyway.

This leads to a key question, does role playing Nazi's glorify Nazism? Maybe you know that you are just playing pretend, but are the people you are playing with playing pretend? Can impressionable readers tell?

[Whamabama]

This leads to a key question, does role playing Nazi's glorify Nazism? Maybe you know that you are just playing pretend, but are the people you are playing with playing pretend? Can impressionable readers tell?

I am not sure RPing Nazi's truelly glorifies Nazism. I suppose in some cases no, and in some cases yes. Maybe only in the eye of the beholder.

As far as players playing pretend, and do they know it's pretend, and am theirselves pretending? The answer is no. While some know this is a game, and treat all sides, no matter how many sides they are, it is evident by so many here, that they will not take into account that it's ok. It's just a game, and it's ok to play it as you see fit, and that the ideology of the nation doesn't mean it's the ideology of the player behind the nation.

Too many people have proved all too often that the emotions in this game are all too real, and not pretend. How many times have we seen people get really angry over simple everyday acts that can and wil hapen in almost any game? Where a nation states it is cool to raid a region, and hold it can provoke an emotional response from someone not pretending to be a defender? Someone who is does not nessisarily seem to be playing a nation, or a role, but it seriously emotionaly invested in the belief it is wrong. We have also seen raiders get too emotional after they feel like they have unfairly been targeted for unfair treatment by others, simply for choosing to play the game as a raider.

These are usually just game situational only. They don't apply to "Real life" at all. Yet even the more rational of us have sometimes fallen pray to these emotions.It's understandable that we would, some of us have invested a good amount of time in the game, and toward our own goals.

Now you throw in "Real life" ideologies in the mix. One's that can provoke a real emotional response in someone's normal life outside of any game, or pretend time. This is adding fuel to the fire. You are adding into it the already real emotions of the game itself, and adding into it real life beliefs, and problems in some people.

[New Rogernomics]

I roleplayed as an SS officer in a game of GURPS sent in WWII. I didn't make me a Nazi.

And raiding doesn't make people leave the game in of itself. Moreover, the regions you Antifa/Etc types raid are, in like 99% of the cases, beyond dead anyway.

This leads to a key question, does role playing Nazi's glorify Nazism? Maybe you know that you are just playing pretend, but are the people you are playing with playing pretend? Can impressionable readers tell?

Depends on the context, merely expressing Nazi ideological views does not make someone a Nazi (instead perhaps anti-semetic or authoritarian); unless they are part and parcel to a real life National Socialist party. No one can easily determine who is serious, and who is demonstrating a fiction; the GGR's use of z's on their recruitment messages could demonstrate they are not serious. It is in the eye of the beholder.