[NS Essay] Paradise Found

[Blackbird]

@Blackbird: What do you mean?

Well, this is a game that has almost no game mechanics. It's very small, and based entirely on interpersonal interactions between players who are pretending to be leaders of nations. And they can't read a few thousand words?

[Ambroscus Koth]

Aint nobody got time for that.

[The Blaatschapen]

@Blackbird: What do you mean?

Well, this is a game that has almost no game mechanics. It's very small, and based entirely on interpersonal interactions between players who are pretending to be leaders of nations. And they can't read a few thousand words?

It has something to do with attention spans being Oh look! Birds!

[Cerian Quilor]

@Blackbird: What do you mean?

Well, this is a game that has almost no game mechanics. It's very small, and based entirely on interpersonal interactions between players who are pretending to be leaders of nations. And they can't read a few thousand words?

17,000 words, Blackbird. Bit differant than a few thousand.

[Blackbird]

Well, this is a game that has almost no game mechanics. It's very small, and based entirely on interpersonal interactions between players who are pretending to be leaders of nations. And they can't read a few thousand words?

17,000 words, Blackbird. Bit differant than a few thousand.

Uh...it's more?

Christ man, we used to have longer threads just to get admitted into the Meritocracy.

[Cerian Quilor]

Frankly, I find that hard to believe. And even if its true, that's not really the point. Most people in this game, most people in any game, are not going to take the time to read 17,000 words. Know why? because its a game.

Nation Simulation and Political games don't have 17,000 word doorstoppers all that often, when you get down to it. Because they're unnnessesary and counter productive.

[Lyanna Stark]

If you're going to read it, then read it, comment, whatever. If you're not because it's too long, you couldn't care less, Unibot is the anti-Christ, whatever..then don't read it.

Why are we honestly arguing about whether NS players will read it or not..people who will, will, people who won't, won't.

Oy gevalt.

[Tramiar]

Why are we honestly arguing about whether NS players will read it or not..people who will, will, people who won't, won't.

It's a slightly different argument than the usual ones. Progress.

[PhDre]

Why are we honestly arguing about whether NS players will read it or not..people who will, will, people who won't, won't.

It's a slightly different argument than the usual ones. Progress.

No, it's worse than usual arguments because at least 'usual arguments' have substance - this is a complaint/argument about the manner in which this document was released.

[Tramiar]

It's a slightly different argument than the usual ones. Progress.

No, it's worse than usual arguments because at least 'usual arguments' have substance - this is a complaint/argument about the manner in which this document was released.

Matter of opinion. I like that its at least different, even if it is stupid.

[Unibot III]

It's a slightly different argument than the usual ones. Progress.

No, it's worse than usual arguments because at least 'usual arguments' have substance - this is a complaint/argument about the manner in which this document was released.

And as it is, I did separate the bloody thing into sections. I just released them at the same time. -_-

If people chose to do so, they can read it in sections. I actually recommend that.

[Cerian Quilor]

If you're going to read it, then read it, comment, whatever. If you're not because it's too long, you couldn't care less, Unibot is the anti-Christ, whatever..then don't read it.

Why are we honestly arguing about whether NS players will read it or not..people who will, will, people who won't, won't.

Oy gevalt.

I read it. Moreover, I'm arguing that Unibot's tactics in terms of trying to persuade people to his arguement are fundamentally flawed. I'm giving him advice.

@Unibot: People see such a doorstopper had usually don't even start.

[Hyanygo]

I found it engaging and well written. Whatever you think of the merits of the actual argument, I commend [in the non-SC sense] the successful attempt in contributing to the intellectual health of NS.

[Of crazed]

The only time DEN would have signed an agreement with any region was in its formative months or the splinter DEN Army group.

Almost all of the DENs existence the foreign affairs has been allied with all raiders. All FMs mainained a policy of no signed agreements. Because we weren't going to be bound to or word by non raiders.

I know Franks liked playing in capitalist paradise, but everything he did was always surrounded by mystery. I would hardly use that as an example of going back on their word.

Plus considering that the DEN has had over five different 'home regions', changed forums due to internal revolutions, forum destruction, and other reasons, we have a lot of lost history.

[Cerian Quilor]

Whatever you think of the merits of the actual argument, I commend [in the non-SC sense] the successful attempt in contributing to the intellectual health of NS.

And I do as well.

[Ad Infinitum]

I'll preface this by saying yes, I did read the entire treatise. No, I didn't find any of it interesting or relevant. However I did find it surprisingly fact-driven, considering the author.

And yes, in case you were curious, it was rather tedious to click "Display this post" for each chapter.

He studies political science, he is trying to establish a model which can be used to explain past events in the context of a certain logic along with setting up the framework to predict future events through using that model.

That sounds very unpleasant.

Indeed. Someone should tell him that 99% of the political action in this game is driven by boredom rather than gain or collective good, so basing a political model off of a couple thousand bored high school students doesn't make quite as much sense as basing a political model off of, say, an existing political situation in the real world.

Hmm, but the best part is that Political Scientists are almost always wrong at the prediction part.

Maybe because politics are unpredictable

On the contrary... politicians don't take action until a substantial number of their denizens are murdered. Then they scrap together some poorly thought-out war or two and then go on vacation for 2/3 of their terms. Completely reliable in that manner.

As for the actual work that politicians do, that too could be predicted if intelligent people became political scientists. Unfortunately it's just full of news junkies that washed out of sociology. Unfortunately, everyone smart enough to predict political action is either A) Working for a politician or B) Doing research as an actual scientist. Of science. You know, the stuff with the chemicals.

[Cerian Quilor]

As for the actual work that politicians do, that too could be predicted if intelligent people became political scientists. Unfortunately it's just full of news junkies that washed out of sociology. Unfortunately, everyone smart enough to predict political action is either A) Working for a politician or B) Doing research as an actual scientist. Of science. You know, the stuff with the chemicals.

....

[Blackbird]

As for the actual work that politicians do, that too could be predicted if intelligent people became political scientists. Unfortunately it's just full of news junkies that washed out of sociology. Unfortunately, everyone smart enough to predict political action is either A) Working for a politician or B) Doing research as an actual scientist. Of science. You know, the stuff with the chemicals.

....

Yeah. Someone doesn't understand how social science works. Such a pity.

[Cerian Quilor]

And very American.

I'm going to presume Ad Ininitum is American.

God, I'm embarressed to be from that country.

[Everbeek]

"science is the stuff with the chemicals" is also insulting to other hard scientists not doing chemistry

[Northern Chittowa]

In regards to the conversation that sprouted up about the FRA, one thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the FRA was never meant to become the next ADN. When it was founded, it was founded to be an alternative to the big two (ADN, RLA). It was meant to be a defender organisation which, not only defended regions, but would help them rebuild.

Due to this mindset, there was never any want to become as all encompassing as the ADN.

Indeed, it was only down to circumstance that the FRA ended up being the only defender multi-regional organisation left in the game! We never expected for the ADN and RLA to both collapse (even though, perhaps looking back, signs were there...But thats a different topic).

Also, the FRA worked well after these years by concentrating on what it was good at. At one point, under Numero's command, we had the best intelligence service in the game. We also attracted a number of good players who grew into major players in the defender sphere. Fratt, Wop, Sedge, Coco, Numero and yourself Uni just to name a handful.

As BB said as well, the FRA's main years were through the 'depression' of NS where a lot of big name players (and players in general) left to go to others, such as the devils game.

On another note, and in regards to the size of this essay, i do indeed remember the Merit and the conversations that went on in there and i agree with BB that these size of threads were commonplace. When i had just started playing the game, i always wanted to be involved in the Merit but never got the chance before it closed down. Its a shame there is nothing similar to it in todays NS.

All in all though, well done Uni, seriously.

[Unibot III]

I would consider myself and Fratt entering the FRA during a different era, because I think after 2008, the "depression" or sort of grey era was clearing up. The turning point I identified was Macedon and the Creation of the WA Security Council, since I know that drew me and a few others into defenderdom and it was a very high profile, moral victory.

But thanks for posting, NC! And I agree, we need some more literature and a scholarly presence in the game. Merit added a lot of intellectual concepts to the game that we're still debating to this day (Intfed/NatSov is one dispute that comes to mind). When I got into NS History more, I grew quite fond of the abundance of articles, interviews and literature, which I don't think we have enough of today -- that's nothing we can't change though.

I'm not sure what to think of Merit sometimes. I'm not a fan of elitism and I don't think I would have gotten along with many of those in Merit, but then again, from the sounds of things, I don't think members of Merit got along either.

[Sedgistan]

As for the actual work that politicians do, that too could be predicted if intelligent people became political scientists. Unfortunately it's just full of news junkies that washed out of sociology. Unfortunately, everyone smart enough to predict political action is either A) Working for a politician or B) Doing research as an actual scientist. Of science. You know, the stuff with the chemicals.

Unofficial warning for trolling.

[Todd McCloud]

With respect to the points against my argument in The Necessity of Chaos, I postulated that the degree of activity is correlated to the type of intervention in a particular feeder. Things like rogue delegates, especially from well-known NSers, don't typically stir up a lot of activity in a region. However, foreign intervention, especially by a delegate who is not really known but apparently has a lot of power, or at least enough to raise his or her own status and coax people to elect him or her delegate in a coup, seem to cause the most disruptions which, in turn, leads to the highest degree of chaos (assuming they reject the current government) and facilitates the greatest potential for activity.

That being said, excellent read thus far. I like these types of NS arguments.

[The Blaatschapen]

With respect to the points against my argument in The Necessity of Chaos, I postulated that the degree of activity is correlated to the type of intervention in a particular feeder. Things like rogue delegates, especially from well-known NSers, don't typically stir up a lot of activity in a region. However, foreign intervention, especially by a delegate who is not really known but apparently has a lot of power, or at least enough to raise his or her own status and coax people to elect him or her delegate in a coup, seem to cause the most disruptions which, in turn, leads to the highest degree of chaos (assuming they reject the current government) and facilitates the greatest potential for activity.

That being said, excellent read thus far. I like these types of NS arguments.

I'm not that well known. I'm willing to coup a feeder if it gives them activity. How much do you offer?