The Rejected Times

[Coraxion]

@Uni. Could you leave these statistics aside for a while and really show you can lead effective Defense on The Field. In Practice.

I know you can do it, but I do not understand why you are not doing it anymore. I would respect you little bit more. After all, you made me and countless others Raiders, Uni.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Kring's got it. It's number of crossovers, not number of citizens who crossover.

Making it utterly useless; number of individuals with crossovers as a % of the citizenry is an interesting statistics. How many of Crossovers do you alone for account for?

[Solorni]

I'm just glad we got someone like Unibot who has stuck to one GCR to do this criticism.

[Anumia]

How shocking that the great two defender GCRs, Lazarus in particular claiming such great investment in getting natives involved in all places, happen to have the greatest leadership share and therefore the greatest issue of cosmopolitan-oligarchy.



Did he resign because The Rejected Times is far too damn long these days?

Seriously though, he was usually a reasonable sort, and I wish him well hereafter.

I believe that that chart is showing citizen crossover, no? Because there is no way that we have that many government officials shared with TRR simply because we don't have that many government officials

According to the description of that figure, it is shared membership in the Legislative-Executive-Judicial branches, ie, government positions. Don't blame me if it's full of crap.

[Unibot III]

Kring's got it. It's number of crossovers, not number of citizens who crossover.

Making it utterly useless; number of individuals with crossovers as a % of the citizenry is an interesting statistics. How many of Crossovers do you alone for account for?

No it's not useless at all - the simple number of people would be nearly useless. You've got it completely backwards. The number of people alone would be utterly misleading.

[Evil Wolf]

I, personally, would like to see the name by name break down of this supposed "crossover dictatorship" so the readers can judge for themselves.

[Ramaeus]

I, personally, would like to see the name by name break down of this supposed "crossover dictatorship" so the readers can judge for themselves.

As would I. I doubt Uni would do that, though, because he counts for a quarter of those "crossovers".

[Southern Bellz]

Am I a cross over?

[Unibot III]

I, personally, would like to see the name by name break down of this supposed "crossover dictatorship" so the readers can judge for themselves.

As would I. I doubt Uni would do that, though, because he counts for a quarter of those "crossovers".

At the time of the study I was a member of two GCR governments, The Rejected Realms and The South Pacific (the latter as an Assemblyman). The record was 5 crossovers, I believe, but 4 was common among a lot of players. Honestly I just don't have the names tabulated down anymore (I wrote this essay about three weeks ago), otherwise I would share.

Am I a cross over?

No. You're not publicly registered in any other GCR as a member of a government, besides TSP.

[Glen-Rhodes]

If people want names, the names are all publicly available. We could all list members of our governments right here and now.


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[South Pacific Belschaft]

Making it utterly useless; number of individuals with crossovers as a % of the citizenry is an interesting statistics. How many of Crossovers do you alone for account for?

No it's not useless at all - the simple number of people would be nearly useless. You've got it completely backwards. The number of people alone would be utterly misleading.

I said as a % of citizenry. TNP, for example, has vastly more citizens than TP and TWP; that will be a significant factor in its higher level. The way you've presented the data is grossly misleading, as anyone who ever took a single lecture on statistics - a group which includes you, I believe - should know.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I don't understand why it's a gross violation of statistics to not do this by percentage of total citizens. (As one of those people who has taken statistics courses, particularly visualization courses.) What information does that add? If I'm reading things correctly, Unibot is trying to measure the number of people who hold government positions in multiple GCRs. While seeing how much crossovers account for total citizenry would be interesting, it's a completely separate reasearch question. The visualization is attempting to show how many shared positions there are within GCRs, and it shows just that.

[Unibot III]

I don't understand why it's a gross violation of statistics to not do this by percentage of total citizens.

It isn't. It is, however, if the intention of the research is to show many shared positions there are - at that point it becomes disingenuous. We already have regionalist studies that name and blame between the "pure" and "non-pure" members. I wanted to go beyond that.

Unibot is trying to measure the number of people who hold government positions in multiple GCRs. While seeing how much crossovers account for total citizenry would be interesting, it's a completely separate reasearch question. The visualization is attempting to show how many shared positions there are within GCRs, and it shows just that.

Exactly.

[Southern Bellz]

I don't know the reason why people are surprised by it. Im not sure Unibot was trying to make a strong point by it. I don't know the membership requirements to join the government in other regions, but it's incredibly easy to join TSP and considering we welcome and encourage all types to join, it's not surprising.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

If I thought I could get so many negative responses, I'd write newspapers too. Why can't Uni share all the buttmad inducing pheromones around

[Unibot III]

Why can't Uni share all the buttmad inducing pheromones around

MINE!!!

[Coraxion]

All I want is Cuddle that Sissy Fenda Leader... But I'm apparently too Sissy for his Elite self-esteemed Ever-bestness-all-around, that He dare go that low never show what he really can. Poor dude. Loatherd by everyone, and especially by me, but not what he said but what he do. The Poor lilla fella from sherwood.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

I don't understand why it's a gross violation of statistics to not do this by percentage of total citizens. (As one of those people who has taken statistics courses, particularly visualization courses.) What information does that add? If I'm reading things correctly, Unibot is trying to measure the number of people who hold government positions in multiple GCRs. While seeing how much crossovers account for total citizenry would be interesting, it's a completely separate reasearch question. The visualization is attempting to show how many shared positions there are within GCRs, and it shows just that.

The original visualization was interesting; the ranking of regions according to how many crossovers they had, complete with normative colour scheme to imply that more crossovers = good and less = bad, is the part I object to. Consider the following theoretical model;

There are three GCR's; X, Y and Z. X has 30 crossovers, Y has 20 and Z has 10. The population of the regions are as follows; X has 100 citizens, Y has 50 and Z has 25.

X: 30/100=0.3
Y: 20/50=0.4
Z: 10/25=0.4

In X there are 0.3 crossovers per citizen, and in Y and Z 0.4 crossovers per citizen. Once population is taken into account X comes out best, assuming that we hold to the idea that crossovers are bad. A region with more citizens will tend to have more crossovers - but may have a lower incidence rate. Further, the number of crossovers may be concentrated in one small group, or spread over a many citizens with each having fewer. Which is better; a small number of people in many regions, or a larger number in fewer? Is 30 people in two regions each better or worse than six people in five regions each?

The data Unibot has provided is, in of itself, useless. Meaningful conclusions cannot possibly be drawn from it. A wider set of data - data that he must have, otherwise he wouldn't have been able to present the limited set amount he did - is needed before any valid analysis can be made.

[Glen-Rhodes]

You're trying to visualize a completely different issue, Belschaft. The ratio of crossovers to total citizens is completely irrelevant to the question Unibot posed. The question is how many crossovers there are among GCR governments. The question you're posing is how many crossovers there are within the whole GCR population. Those are two completely different questions.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Nope; that's not the data set Unibot has provided. There are, I believe, zero crossovers within TSP's government, never mind 26. His data set only makes sense if it is citizen wide.

[Unibot III]

Nope; that's not the data set Unibot has provided. There are, I believe, zero crossovers within TSP's government, never mind 26. His data set only makes sense if it is citizen wide.

It's government wide. Legislative-Executive-Judicial. The Assembly includes the citizens. You're correct to say that focusing on the number of crossovers is misleading because governments like TEP and TP are much smaller than governments like TSP and TRR. I'm just trying to draw a larger picture that shows major crossover between all of the governments without emphasize one or the other as more "corrupted".

[Glen-Rhodes]

Nope; that's not the data set Unibot has provided. There are, I believe, zero crossovers within TSP's government, never mind 26. His data set only makes sense if it is citizen wide.

It's government wide. Legislative-Executive-Judicial. The Assembly includes the citizens. You're correct to say that focusing on the number of crossovers is misleading because governments like TEP and TP are much smaller than governments like TSP and TRR. I'm just trying to draw a larger picture that shows major crossover between all of the governments without emphasize one or the other as more "corrupted".

I don't think it's misleading at all. The goal is to show how interconnected GCR governments are. In TSP, the Assembly is an official branch of government. It has a lot of power. So why wouldn't we weigh Assembly crossovers equally with other GCR legislatures? The size of government is irrelevant, because the goal is to visualize the 'interconnectedness' of power, not the relative power of individuals within their governments.

[Evil Wolf]

I, personally, would like to see the name by name break down of this supposed "crossover dictatorship" so the readers can judge for themselves.

Honestly I just don't have the names tabulated down anymore (I wrote this essay about three weeks ago), otherwise I would share.

How very convenient.

I don't think it's misleading at all.

You're a UDL yes-man, I'm surprised you think at all. Point being all these claims of "interconnectedness" mean nothing if not backed with evidence. Since the raw data has not and will not be presented, by Unibot's own admission, his graph linking all the feeders together is as about as useful as a chart linking the decline in piracy on the open seas to an increase in global warming.

So far all I see is sensationalism, not proof.

[Unibot III]

It's government wide. Legislative-Executive-Judicial. The Assembly includes the citizens. You're correct to say that focusing on the number of crossovers is misleading because governments like TEP and TP are much smaller than governments like TSP and TRR. I'm just trying to draw a larger picture that shows major crossover between all of the governments without emphasize one or the other as more "corrupted".

I don't think it's misleading at all. The goal is to show how interconnected GCR governments are. In TSP, the Assembly is an official branch of government. It has a lot of power. So why wouldn't we weigh Assembly crossovers equally with other GCR legislatures? The size of government is irrelevant, because the goal is to visualize the 'interconnectedness' of power, not the relative power of individuals within their governments.

This is true, but if you're thinking in terms, "which government is the most crossovered", it becomes misleading because smaller, more centralized governments can be even more vulnerable to crossover. I agree however that the main disconnect here is that some haven't understood what I set out to demonstrate.

[South Pacific Belschaft]

Nope; that's not the data set Unibot has provided. There are, I believe, zero crossovers within TSP's government, never mind 26. His data set only makes sense if it is citizen wide.

It's government wide. Legislative-Executive-Judicial. The Assembly includes the citizens. You're correct to say that focusing on the number of crossovers is misleading because governments like TEP and TP are much smaller than governments like TSP and TRR. I'm just trying to draw a larger picture that shows major crossover between all of the governments without emphasize one or the other as more "corrupted".

That makes you data even worse. Every citizen of TSP is a member of the Assembly; your sample for TSP would, if conducted today, involve 63 people - it would have been even larger when you collected the data as it would have been on our old forums, when we had more citizens. The sample for TP was, for comparison, how large exactly?

This is true, but if you're thinking in terms, "which government is the most crossovered", it becomes misleading because smaller, more centralized governments can be even more vulnerable to crossover. I agree however that the main disconnect here is that some haven't understood what I set out to demonstrate.

No, it's that the data you've chosen to share is awful.