Captain Woodhouse wrote:Truth, not piss-poor bluffing, was my aim. Aye, I searched the 14 pages of citizenship applications that date back to ’10, and missed the others combined with the Electoral College topic.
I don't know what 14-page citizenship applications thread you are talking about; perhaps you are referring to an old thread but you'd have had to go back some pages in the Imperial Customs and Immigration forum to find it. The "Electoral College" topic only gained that title on 10th February this year when we introduced a new constitution. Prior to that, this thread was called simply called Citizenship Applications, it was pinned and it has been in operation continuously since April 2011, with all citizenship applications from that period onwards (other than those started in separate topics) contained within.
Above, you said you'd searched "everywhere but underneath your wig stand" to find that application and yet you miss a post displayed on the first page of the pinned citizenship application thread. Having allegedly missed that post, you accuse the LKE of having "conveniently disappeared" the topic. This latest incident reminds me of the last thread, when you claimed I removed a reference to NE from his signature, when he had already stated he did so himself.
You are simply throwing mud and trying to see what sticks.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:Greg posted in the SC that he’d included his NE affiliation in his citizenship application, so I was curious. Thanks for locating it, Klaus. Clearly, no NE info exists in the application now. I assume LKE forum admin can edit post content invisibly same as NE admin on our forum. It’s pointless to accuse LKE of post editing, but I don’t believe Greg deliberately misrepresented the contents of his citizenship application either.
The application form which we began with in April 2011, drawn up by Crown Prince HEM (who you'll see started that topic, rather than me), did not even include a question as to other regional affiliations. I later amended the form a few months later (although the LKE's application form was still a lot more basic than the one I wrote for TNI until 2014). It appears from Avakael's finding that this individual applied in the period before that question was added.
In any case, I am certain no NE reference was on his application, because I would have seen it and blocked it.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:The original argument had nothing to do with a citizenship application, but rather Onder claiming ignorance of Greg’s NE affiliation when he was being vetted for high-level LKE government positions, including prime minister. There’s no doubt in my mind Onder is lying and Greg is telling the truth when he says Onder knew of his NE affiliation long before it was supposedly ‘brought to his attention’. Onder even admits the evidence was readily available in Greg's signature. By maintaining cluelessness, he's thrown Greg under the bus to get himself off the hook and save face in the game. From one of Greg’s NE forum posts, November 2012:
Insofar as vetting for positions goes, the possibility of Nazi members joining was not one we considered. Our counter-intelligence work has always focused on defender regions and organisations, and on that score Athelstan MacGregor was perfectly clean, so he was not flagged as a potential security risk. Clearly, this was an error on the LKE's part but it reflects that our counter-intelligence efforts never contemplated a threat from your direction.
As far as his signature is concerned, we know it was in his signature from the fact he told us he was removing it after the question of his NE membership arose following our declaration of war on the Greater German Reich, but I never noticed this line before that point. Even today, I do not read every line in every LKE member's signature beyond the essentials at the top. His membership of NE only came to my attention after we declared war on GGR.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:By maintaining cluelessness, he's thrown Greg under the bus to get himself off the hook and save face in the game. From one of Greg’s NE forum posts, November 2012:
I have not insignificant ties among the Imperialist and Monarchist spheres that I have been using for quite some time now to keep pressure off us and, occasionally, intelligence, that I could use to get us allies. Onder Kelkia in particular, has gone farther than I would have expected for us at my request, while still being unable to give us overt support due to the vehement anti-Nazi rhetoric espoused by the LKE's closest allies.
That post is an absolute lie, pure fiction and utter drivel - if indeed it is unedited. At no point were any concessions or assistance on anti-Nazi efforts offered. I don't know if he was consciously misrepresenting the situation to satisfy you or deluding himself to rationalise his continued connection to both regions despite the threat posed by the LKE to NE, but we did not curtail our anti-Nazi efforts in any respects. Far from it: I recall having personally sanctioned and led TNI and LKE involvement in several plans, and if I recall correctly at least one unsuccessful attempt, to invade NE in that period.
The "vehement anti-Nazi rhetoric" wasn't just coming from the LKE's allies as he suggests; at all times it was coming from, indeed partly led by, the LKE itself. The LKE was the first region to declare war on the Greater German Reich, triggering a chain of declarations from other regions, and, as part of the UIAF, the LKE was one of the two leading parties in the ultimate invasion of Nazi Europe. We were persistently forceful in advocating anti-Nazi efforts.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:Onder has an excuse for every question raised concerning his ignorance of situations that have landed LKE in hot water or potentially could. Bob Moran: LKE interior minister and chief of general staff. Yet again, Onder oblivious to the alleged secret doings of another LKE government member. Doesn’t have clue one about this stuff yet runs damage control and is the main spokesman for the region.
The cases of Athelstan MacGregor and Bob Moran are utterly different.
Athelstan MacGregor's Nazi background was potentially discoverable at an earlier point and when we found out, rather than taking the approach I described in my post above (ultimately leading to his retirement from LKE life in favour of NE), we should have simply banned him extrajudicially - but that is a highly exceptional procedure in the LKE and has only been used twice against a citizen since 2007, including the case of Bob Moran. Failure to discover Athelstan MacGregor's affiliation to NE earlier and failure to ban him when we found out were mistakes, as I have stated previously, and I am very sorry about them.
There is no way we could have detected Bob Moran's sending of automated telegrams as fake manual telegrams. I have already, in another thread, given a detailed account of the nature of Bob Moran's membership in the LKE - he was first appointed Chief of the Imperial General Staff at the end of January 2015 but this to provide additional training and administrative support, as all command functions at the time were vested in the UIAF (Bob Moran deliberately was not appointed as LKE UIAF Division Commander, a position which predecessor had held concurrently); subsequently on UIAF's disbandment he agreed to stay on as a caretaker (as his main military commitments were in TBR and he did not want to jeopardise them) until a suitable LKE soldier was ready.
The Prime Minister has already described his rationale for appointing for Bob Moran on 8th March as interior minister (by which point [violet]'s graph shows Bob Moran was already using his illegal script, so it had nothing to do with his government positon). The Prime Minister had no grounds for suspicion against Bob Moran - at the time he presented as an active and engaging community member. He had no authorisation to use an automated tool.
Whereas Athelstan MacGregor was discoverable, Bob Moran was not. Whereas Athelstan MacGregor was not extrajudicially banned, Bob Moran was.
Captain Woodhouse wrote:NE uses stamp recruitment. I don’t know how much my campaign was affected by LKE and TBR illegal recruitment; if funds applied to the campaign were lost on account of it or what. If illegal recruitment resulted in lost funds and new recruits for regions recruiting with stamps, a three month recruitment ban and a couple heads rolling ain’t punishment enough. You dance to the music, expect to pay the piper—even if you’re dancing in your sleep.
There are not a "couple heads rolling" - only one, because only one individual acted, and without any wider regional involvement.
The responsibility for the use of the automated tool, which was disgraceful, rests with Bob Moran and full sanctions should be applied to him.
The "three month recruitment ban" will leave the LKE population below when it was when [violet]'s graph shows Bob Moran initiated his script.