The Rejected Times

[Black Mekhet]

Didn't you think you should perhaps notify everyone that this is a giant IP address bonanza when you linked it?

Everyone should know better anything offsite can potential farm IPs Cormac. I have nothing to hide, so doesn't bother me none.

Done did survey.

[Cormac A Stark]

It doesn't bother me either as my IP is everywhere, but some people are careful with their IPs, selective about the forums on which they register, etc.

[The Bruce]

I am with NES on this one. And well, I was there.

Don't get me wrong. BB is and was a great player. The forum destruction stuff was much more complex than is being conveyed. But in the end, the RLA supported the actions. And in the end, it is what turned me away from defenderism.

One of the things that hasn't been conveyed is that the invader forums destroyed had a lot of content that included the obscene and degrading defacement of real life pictures of defender players that would get you banned for life from most websites. It got to the point where organized defender groups were warning their members not to post pictures of themselves in the out of character sections of their forums, to keep them from getting downloaded for the perverse pleasure of invaders. I don't support forum destruction, but this probably had a lot to do with provoking the destruction of these forums.

[Cormac A Stark]

One of the things that hasn't been conveyed is that the invader forums destroyed had a lot of content that included the obscene and degrading defacement of real life pictures of defender players that would get you banned for life from most websites. It got to the point where organized defender groups were warning their members not to post pictures of themselves in the out of character sections of their forums, to keep them from getting downloaded for the perverse pleasure of invaders. I don't support forum destruction, but this probably had a lot to do with provoking the destruction of these forums.

Citation needed. Seriously, you going to back any of that up or are we all just supposed to take your word for it? Because having been on both sides of this game, there's one side far more likely to do mean-spirited, OOC personal things like that than the other, but it isn't the raider side.

[Land filled with People]

One of the things that hasn't been conveyed is that the invader forums destroyed had a lot of content that included the obscene and degrading defacement of real life pictures of defender players that would get you banned for life from most websites. It got to the point where organized defender groups were warning their members not to post pictures of themselves in the out of character sections of their forums, to keep them from getting downloaded for the perverse pleasure of invaders. I don't support forum destruction, but this probably had a lot to do with provoking the destruction of these forums.

Citation needed. Seriously, you going to back any of that up or are we all just supposed to take your word for it? Because having been on both sides of this game, there's one side far more likely to do mean-spirited, OOC personal things like that than the other, but it isn't the raider side.

Ignoring your ridiculous generalisation, I recall reading about at least one TITO member who felt the need to delete all of their pictures upon finding responses by DEN members regarding them.

[Evil Wolf]

Ignoring your ridiculous generalisation, I recall reading about at least one TITO member who felt the need to delete all of their pictures upon finding responses by DEN members regarding them.

Oh, in that case, I guess the RLA's repeated destruction of multiple forums is completely justified, amirite?

Also, I was in DEN for quite a while, and I don't recall the thread/incident you are referring to. Was it on the DEN forum the RLA griefed and thus proof of its existence was conveniently destroyed, just like the thread Bruce alleges existed?

[Land filled with People]

Ignoring your ridiculous generalisation, I recall reading about at least one TITO member who felt the need to delete all of their pictures upon finding responses by DEN members regarding them.

Oh, in that case, I guess the RLA's repeated destruction of multiple forums is completely justified, amirite?

Also, I was in DEN for quite a while, and I don't recall the thread/incident you are referring to. Was it on the DEN forum the RLA griefed and thus proof of its existence was conveniently destroyed, just like the thread Bruce alleges existed?

I didn't comment on whether this justified forum destruction or not. I merely provided an example to show Cormac that The Bruce was not pulling statements from thin air.

[Nephmir]

>_>

Congrats. This conversation is exactly why people hate Gameplayers.

Can we please talk about the survey at hand? You're all killing me.

I took the survey. Can't wait to see the results! I like surveys

[Black Mekhet]

>_>

Congrats. This conversation is exactly why people hate Gameplayers.

Can we please talk about the survey at hand? You're all killing me.

I took the survey. Can't wait to see the results! I like surveys

Those people, happen to mostly be those that frequent gameplay forums. It's part of the parcel.

[Sandaoguo]

It doesn't bother me either as my IP is everywhere, but some people are careful with their IPs, selective about the forums on which they register, etc.

Those people are dumb if they think a survey that doesn't ask for any personal identifiable information is a "danger." (And I use scare quotes because, frankly, too many of you guys have a misinformed idea of how dangerous revealing an IP address is.)

[Darkesia]

It doesn't bother me either as my IP is everywhere, but some people are careful with their IPs, selective about the forums on which they register, etc.

Those people are dumb if they think a survey that doesn't ask for any personal identifiable information is a "danger." (And I use scare quotes because, frankly, too many of you guys have a misinformed idea of how dangerous revealing an IP address is.)

Generally speaking in NS, people who guard their IPs are spies. lol
Or they work for an agency that willfire them if they ever got caught playing off the intranet at their company.

I have not taken the survey because it is another in a long line of popularity contests. It will change in a few weeks according to which regions are currently the star of the drama at hand. I just can't understand the current obsession with ranking things. It's all over facebook and twitter as well as this forum.

As to the other topic: I never witnessed obscene or defamatory OOC pictures on any forum (that wasn't suffering a pornbot spam attack), no matter how crude the denizens of those forums were. I do not believe that any forum root would risk it, regardless of which side of the game they were playing.

[Southern Bellz]

Can we talk about how anyone who has been in the DEN or played with those of us who have been in the DEN have never even seen a fraction of the behavior Bruce is suggesting.

It's pretty disgusting to make accusations like that so off hand.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Unibot III]

Can we talk about how anyone who has been in the DEN or played with those of us who have been in the DEN have never even seen a fraction of the behavior Bruce is suggesting.

It's pretty disgusting to make accusations like that so off hand.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

I was talking to a former DEN agent the other day who said he burned defender forums throughout 2004 and it was "fun". Cool stuff. -_-

[Southern Bellz]

That's certainly comparable to making casual accusations of real life, near criminal harassment.

The fact that you brought that up as a retort shows a complete inability to distinguish between when a line is being crossed in game to something that's completely unacceptable period.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Unibot III]

That's certainly comparable to making casual accusations of real life, near criminal harassment.

The fact that you brought that up as a retort shows a complete inability to distinguish between when a line is being crossed in game to something that's completely unacceptable period.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

Nowhere in that retort did you deny what I said.

[Southern Bellz]

What am I supposed to comment on? I don't know who or what you are alluding to. All I know is you have conversations with nameless sources over a nameless in game event that apparently happened a decade ago in an attempt to argue that it's ok to accuse people of harassment on a whim?

My only retort is that it's embarrassing to defend and justify that sort of behavior in the manner you are doing.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

[Unibot III]

My only retort is that it's embarrassing to defend and justify that sort of behavior in the manner you are doing.

I'm not justifying anything - I think forum destruction is awful. However, I dislike that the ghost of Red Factions is brought up every few months to cast a dark light on defenderdom as a whole when it suits invaders - especially when that era was a different era where forum destruction was a regular occurrence that was popularized by both sides.

Also, I'll add that you've once again avoided denying directly that DEN agents also destroyed defender forums. It's just not something that's ever been popularly noted whenever the old "Red Factions" narrative gets dug up and rehashed.

[Evil Wolf]

I was talking to a former DEN agent the other day who said he burned defender forums throughout 2004 and it was "fun". Cool stuff. -_-

Does this player have a name or are we just going to make bold statements without a shred of supporting proof?

[Klaus Devestatorie]

I don't know why Evil Wolf and Unibot are at it, the pair of you wilfully ignore such acts when convenient.

You know when people (and you two) do care? When it affects them personally. Plenty of support from Unibot about how evil forum destruction is back when TRR and Europeia received mass PM pornspam that was reportedly revenge against a close friend of his. Plenty of willingness from Evil Wolf to engage in debate over the RLA on any day of the week. Forum destruction very much continues to be treated as a political matter, always has been, and probably always will be. Both of you kindly stop embarrassing yourselves to those in the know, and stop misleading to those who weren't here and rely on your accuracy to get a decent picture of what happened in the past.

[Evil Wolf]

Forum destruction very much continues to be treated as a political matter, always has been, and probably always will be. Both of you kindly stop embarrassing yourselves to those in the know, and stop misleading to those who weren't here and rely on your accuracy to get a decent picture of what happened in the past.

Dev, you know as well as I do that the reason why I brought up the RLA, specifically in this thread, is because Unibot tried to change the past and cleverly deny that the RLA was in fact anything other than guilty of the acts they committed. I am very much against people rewriting history and will happily call them out on it, no matter what the subject. These denials of history on the part of Unibot are insulting to everyone's intelligence and should be reacted to on the same level as if someone started acting like the AC never destroyed any forums and it was just a happy go-lucky group that never hurt anyone ever and just got bad press from it's enemies.

Complete lies should be called out.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Forum destruction very much continues to be treated as a political matter, always has been, and probably always will be. Both of you kindly stop embarrassing yourselves to those in the know, and stop misleading to those who weren't here and rely on your accuracy to get a decent picture of what happened in the past.

Dev, you know as well as I do that the reason why I brought up the RLA, specifically in this thread, is because Unibot tried to change the past and cleverly deny that the RLA was in fact anything other than guilty of the acts they committed. I am very much against people rewriting history and will happily call them out on it, no matter what the subject. These denials of history on the part of Unibot are insulting to everyone's intelligence and should be reacted to on the same level as if someone started acting like the AC never destroyed any forums and it was just a happy go-lucky group that never hurt anyone ever and just got bad press from it's enemies.

Complete lies should be called out.

Oh, I know all about how Unibot likes to ignore and rewrite history. I'm annoyed because I get the impression from you that you think you haven't overlooked acts on this side of the fence too.

[Evil Wolf]

There are far less examples of Raider on Defender, that I can recall at least, than Defender on Raider, but I'm not denying that it has happened. However, I will note that typically when a raider destroys a forum, they destroy another raider's forum.

We're sorta weird like that.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

There are far less examples of Raider on Defender, that I can recall at least, than Defender on Raider, but I'm not denying that it has happened. However, I will note that typically when a raider destroys a forum, they destroy another raider's forum.

We're sorta weird like that.

Both statements are true, but categorizing acts of forum destruction into those committed by raiders and those committed by defenders is a slippery slope. The point is- it's all bad.

Anyway, I voted on the survey when it came out. There have already, apparently, been several instances of people giving clearly biased and non thought out answers on it- like ranking regions with 1 or 5 stars in every category. I hope these replies are not counted.

[Cormac A Stark]

Anyway, I voted on the survey when it came out. There have already, apparently, been several instances of people giving clearly biased and non thought out answers on it- like ranking regions with 1 or 5 stars in every category. I hope these replies are not counted.

I think this is a bad idea. For example, I ranked The Pacific consistently low on issues involving activity, but gave them five stars for stability, which is an accurate reflection of my real view of The Pacific -- should my answer be discounted too? There's no way of knowing if a vote is or isn't the person's accurate view of the GCRs, so some shouldn't be discounted on the assumption they were just trolling because they consistently gave some GCRs low rankings.

Believe it or not, some people in NationStates do believe that some of the GCRs are superior to others in regard to various matters. I'm not going to cry when Osiris receives a very low ranking on stability, and nobody in inactive GCRs should whine when they get low activity rankings either.

[Klaus Devestatorie]

Anyway, I voted on the survey when it came out. There have already, apparently, been several instances of people giving clearly biased and non thought out answers on it- like ranking regions with 1 or 5 stars in every category. I hope these replies are not counted.

I think this is a bad idea. For example, I ranked The Pacific consistently low on issues involving activity, but gave them five stars for stability, which is an accurate reflection of my real view of The Pacific -- should my answer be discounted too? There's no way of knowing if a vote is or isn't the person's accurate view of the GCRs, so some shouldn't be discounted on the assumption they were just trolling because they consistently gave some GCRs low rankings.

Believe it or not, some people in NationStates do believe that some of the GCRs are superior to others in regard to various matters. I'm not going to cry when Osiris receives a very low ranking on stability, and nobody in inactive GCRs should whine when they get low activity rankings either.

As in, they take the survey, and they give a region 1 star in every category, or 5 stars in every category. Not 1 or 5 in variance.